View Full Version : Is racism towards dark skin people an outcome of colonization, or a question of class
Are agrarian societies the reason why skin colour is selected as the criteria for colonial racism?
Is racism towards dark skin people an outcome of colonization, or simply a question of class?
In ancient times, Asian cultures (and most cultures more or less in the globe) depended on agriculture. Those who were born into loaded families didn't need to cultivate in the rice paddies, or millet/wheat fields hence they didn’t spend all day underneath sun and their skin persisted as light-coloured. On the other hand, the "low-class" farmers who spent all day in the field acquired tanned skin and were looked down by the upper class.
What are the reasons that in the period of the epoch of colonization, the ideology of race centralized so much on skin colours, and what were the reasons that this was so easily acknowledged? Did it have something to do with agrarian societies?
The enquiry here is very subtlety: what is the mental backdrop for selecting skin colour as a racial indicant; why not select another indicant, like placement? Why did the light versus dark continuum add up as a racial indicant, but yet say the East versus West continuum didn't?
I don't mean to offend anyone but I think this is worth discussing.
It seems like a good question and a very interesting theory. I have seen in several different cultures- even within a group of people with similar skin color a preference for lighter skin.
I think it is neither. It is not due to colonisation because many non-Black countries have been colonised, some Black countries haven't been colonises (e.g. Ethiopia), and racism/discrimination toward people of darker skin colour also exist within India and within East Asia.
I think that modern racism/intolerance is usually more socio-cultural than just based on skin colour. The Japanese discriminate against the Chinese or South-East Asians, because they are poorer and behave differently (=> different culture and different socio-economic condition). Some Western Europeans dislike or fear Eastern Europeans because they are poorer and they think they will steal their jobs. However there aren't really any cultural or racial issue. It's a case where it's purely economic, and it is probably the easiest kind of intolerance to manage and get rid of.
It is much harder when strong cultural or religious differences come into play, because it requires one group (normally the immigrant group) to give up part of whole of their culture/religion to adapt into the new society. Since the 2nd half of the 20th century, the tendency has been for people to fight for their right to be different, even if it causes social unrest. This is what has happened with immigrants to Europe. Too much government-sponsored tolerance and too many rights to be different have resulted in poor integration and immigrants always claiming more rights, even when natives would be denied the same rights (e.g. Muslims asking legal exceptions for them to sacrifice animals at home or wear religious symbols in public institutions in countries where that is prohibited).
What are the reasons that in the period of the epoch of colonization, the ideology of race centralized so much on skin colours, and what were the reasons that this was so easily acknowledged? Did it have something to do with agrarian societies?
The enquiry here is very subtlety: what is the mental backdrop for selecting skin colour as a racial indicant; why not select another indicant, like placement? Why did the light versus dark continuum add up as a racial indicant, but yet say the East versus West continuum didn't?
I don't mean to offend anyone but I think this is worth discussing.
I honestly don't quite understand the question since colonialism lasted over 500 years, spanned a range of motives, wealth and the accumulation of resources probably foremost, at least with the Americas. Plus, it's impossible to disentange race from class as virtually every non-European country while not necessarily black is natively non-white or darker skinned and agregrian hence poorer and extremely vulnerable to foreign invasion.
It would be interesting, though, to look at if and how in general lighter skinned has correlated with political and economic power in these countries even prior to contact with Europeans as well as how colonizers varied their treatment of indigenous captives according to race and class.
I think there is a correlation-- it is one of those things that "seems" to be true and so it would be interesting to see if it actually has any basis and to explore why.
I think it is neither. It is not due to colonisation because many non-Black countries have been colonised, some Black countries haven't been colonises (e.g. Ethiopia), and racism/discrimination toward people of darker skin colour also exist within India and within East Asia.
Well in East Asians' case it is probably class.
For example, somebody who has worked in University in Seoul told me that "the secretaries had to be almost brow-beaten into accepting a NZ-born Thai guy was a teacher and not a labourer working on campus."
I think that modern racism/intolerance is usually more socio-cultural than just based on skin colour. The Japanese discriminate against the Chinese or South-East Asians, because they are poorer and behave differently (=> different culture and different socio-economic condition).
Yes in modern days racism or discrimination have undergone changes. But don't you find that most of the higher, richer countries mostly consist of light skin people in comparison to poor countries? Even among wealthy countries within Europe, and countries like America and Australia, the black or aboriginals there are much poorer than the white people. In Taiwan's case the Taiwanese aboriginals are also darker than the Taiwanese Han and their income is lower.
Some Western Europeans dislike or fear Eastern Europeans because they are poorer and they think they will steal their jobs. However there aren't really any cultural or racial issue. It's a case where it's purely economic, and it is probably the easiest kind of intolerance to manage and get rid of.
Yes I agree it is not always the case that skin colour is the division between the rich and the poor, but there are lots of places on earth that there are racial, economic divisions between light and dark skin people.
It is much harder when strong cultural or religious differences come into play, because it requires one group (normally the immigrant group) to give up part of whole of their culture/religion to adapt into the new society. Since the 2nd half of the 20th century, the tendency has been for people to fight for their right to be different, even if it causes social unrest. This is what has happened with immigrants to Europe. Too much government-sponsored tolerance and too many rights to be different have resulted in poor integration and immigrants always claiming more rights, even when natives would be denied the same rights (e.g. Muslims asking legal exceptions for them to sacrifice animals at home or wear religious symbols in public institutions in countries where that is prohibited).
Yes religious and cultural differences definitely play an important role in tensions among different racial groups. But even in Europe, and other western countries today the word "Negro" is still used, which of course we know it's a racist word, and in Spanish it means black.
In the case in Malaysia the tensions between different racial groups also wrought through years of religious, political and economical favouritisms.
It seems like a good question and a very interesting theory. I have seen in several different cultures- even within a group of people with similar skin color a preference for lighter skin.
In the west, the idea that being tan is aesthetic is very modern (20th century). Earlier, beaut was pale skin, for precisely the same rationality, European people utilized many different methods to attain even whiter skins (e.g. the usage of milk when they bathed, the fact that they wore white powders and makeup).
Many Asian cultures also prefer light skin people, there are many skin lightening products sold throughout Asia. Also most of the knockout celebrities you see in Asian media have pale skins.
I think there is a correlation-- it is one of those things that "seems" to be true and so it would be interesting to see if it actually has any basis and to explore why.
Yes I think so too.
I honestly don't quite understand the question since colonialism lasted over 500 years, spanned a range of motives, wealth and the accumulation of resources probably foremost, at least with the Americas. Plus, it's impossible to disentange race from class as virtually every non-European country while not necessarily black is natively non-white or darker skinned and agregrian hence poorer and extremely vulnerable to foreign invasion.
I am thinking whether there is a correlation between skin colour and racism, and whether it is a product of colonization or class?
It would be interesting, though, to look at if and how in general lighter skinned has correlated with political and economic power in these countries even prior to contact with Europeans as well as how colonizers varied their treatment of indigenous captives according to race and class.
Yes that would be interesting to research upon.
Yes in modern days racism or discrimination have undergone changes. But don't you find that most of the higher, richer countries mostly consist of light skin people in comparison to poor countries? Even among wealthy countries within Europe, and countries like America and Australia, the black or aboriginals there are much poorer than the white people. In Taiwan's case the Taiwanese aboriginals are also darker than the Taiwanese Han and their income is lower.
Let's not forget that differences in skin colours often mean significant difference in genes too. Genetical differences in humans are most visible in the shape of the head (even between family members) and facial traits. Some people have bigger noses, ears, eyes, foreheads, jaws... than others. Looking at the skull, some have bigger frontal lobes, other bigger oscipital lobes, etc. Every individual has a different skull and brain shape, and this is further accentuated by ethnic differences. As we know from observation, Black people (regardless of whether they live in Africa, Brazil, the Carribean or the USA) have a better sense of rythms, dance and are more spontaneous than non-black Africans. They are also physically stronger and have stronger body smell. It seems to me that East Asians (Mongoloids) have a more accute sense of touching, taste and smell, and are more supple, and a weaker body smell. These are examples of genetic differences.
It gets more complex when it comes to personality and intelligence though, as there are much more factors than genetics into account. But ir could be that some ethnic groups are more predisposed to working hard or making money or seek power or work in team or be individualistic or whatever, than others.
I would be interested to research the correlation between skin colour and personality. Scientifically, we know that different skin colours have different sensitivities to the sun, and that lighter skin is more sensitive. We also know that lighter skin (i.e. lower melanine level) increases the absorption of sunlight, vital for the creation of vitamin D and other metabolisms. Without sun, people just go crazy. People with dark skin have a better protection against sunburns and skin cancers, but those with fair skin are better adapted to places with little sunshine. One of the things I have been wondering is: do people with dark skin "feel less good" in northern countries ? Northern Europeans almost feel a visceral need to go to sunny places whenever they can (so many people go to sunny places during the winter holidays). If they don't they get depressed and might go crazy. Given that darker skin are more impermeable to sunlight, wouldn't it be logical that dark-skinned people feel even worse in the absence of sun than light-skinned people ? Could this partly (I insist on 'partly', as socio-cultural factors are more important) explain why people whose ethnic group originated in hot and sunny countries (and so having darker skin) tend to become more easily delinquents or criminals than others ? That's worth studying. It would make a good deterrent to immigration from the Tropics to higher latitudes.
I think that modern racism/intolerance is usually more socio-cultural than just based on skin colour. The Japanese discriminate against the Chinese or South-East Asians, because they are poorer and behave differently (=> different culture and different socio-economic condition). Some Western Europeans dislike or fear Eastern Europeans because they are poorer and they think they will steal their jobs. However there aren't really any cultural or racial issue. It's a case where it's purely economic, and it is probably the easiest kind of intolerance to manage and get rid of.
Colonization destructs and substitutes linguistic communications, civilizations, communities and countries intead of amending them.
Plenty of whites are still profititing from thraldom today. There is no denying it. They have commercioal enterprises, estate, and income all originate from the slaves that constructed them. When thraldom was abolished whites didn't need to do much since things were already created for them. Black people by contrast had to commence from the bottom. People can never terminate more than 200 years of deficit in fewer than 100 years. By the law black and white may have equal rights, but that's not really the reality.
Slavery profits noone omit the slave owner. Blacks are not equal in white society to this day. They do have full legitimate rights, but they are not always do by equally, and still haven't level up with the whites.
African Imports--A Practical Solution--Maintaining the System: At the end of the 17th century, the emphasis on England's national economy shifted from acquiring natural resources (precious metals) to developing industrial areas. The need for a large cheap labor force at home impinged on the continual deportation of the poor Whites. The mercantilists argued for the retention of the mass population at home and for the extension of slaveprocurement. Thus, the West African coast offered the practical solution. In addition Europeans saw Africans as hardier more productive agricultural workers, particularly in the tropical zones, than either the European or Native American (E. Williams 14-16; R. Williams passim; Davidson 84-86; Rodney80-81).
A school of thought argues that the violence in the region is an aftermath of the analogous European theories of race that directed to the holocaust. These beliefs were yielded by John Hanning Speke. Not similar to the other mixed states of Africa, Rwandans were regarded by Europeans to be on the margin and in the middle of Blacks and the "more aristocratic" Hamites. Tutsis were perceived as Hamites and Hutus as lesser Bantus. This inbred racism was diverged upon independence when most of Hutus assume to consider the Tutsis as alien encroacher and not real Rwandans. Analogous variances have directed to violence in other sections of northeast Africa, most noteworthy in Sudan.
Many countries or ethnic groups are poor and struggling today are because of imperialism and colonialism.
Let's not forget that differences in skin colours often mean significant difference in genes too. Genetical differences in humans are most visible in the shape of the head (even between family members) and facial traits. Some people have bigger noses, ears, eyes, foreheads, jaws... than others. Looking at the skull, some have bigger frontal lobes, other bigger oscipital lobes, etc. Every individual has a different skull and brain shape, and this is further accentuated by ethnic differences.
(Not bashing Europeans here but...)The Europeans labelled anyone who didn't appear like them or performed things the way they did, uncivilised peoples, monkeys, ugly creatures...etc. And seemingly this perspective prevails to this day. This is in response to the question of racism other than skin colour.
As we know from observation, Black people (regardless of whether they live in Africa, Brazil, the Carribean or the USA) have a better sense of rythms, dance and are more spontaneous than non-black Africans. They are also physically stronger and have stronger body smell. It seems to me that East Asians (Mongoloids) have a more accute sense of touching, taste and smell, and are more supple, and a weaker body smell. These are examples of genetic differences.
It gets more complex when it comes to personality and intelligence though, as there are much more factors than genetics into account. But ir could be that some ethnic groups are more predisposed to working hard or making money or seek power or work in team or be individualistic or whatever, than others.
I would be interested to research the correlation between skin colour and personality. Scientifically, we know that different skin colours have different sensitivities to the sun, and that lighter skin is more sensitive. We also know that lighter skin (i.e. lower melanine level) increases the absorption of sunlight, vital for the creation of vitamin D and other metabolisms. Without sun, people just go crazy. People with dark skin have a better protection against sunburns and skin cancers, but those with fair skin are better adapted to places with little sunshine. One of the things I have been wondering is: do people with dark skin "feel less good" in northern countries ? Northern Europeans almost feel a visceral need to go to sunny places whenever they can (so many people go to sunny places during the winter holidays). If they don't they get depressed and might go crazy. Given that darker skin are more impermeable to sunlight, wouldn't it be logical that dark-skinned people feel even worse in the absence of sun than light-skinned people ? Could this partly (I insist on 'partly', as socio-cultural factors are more important) explain why people whose ethnic group originated in hot and sunny countries (and so having darker skin) tend to become more easily delinquents or criminals than others ? That's worth studying. It would make a good deterrent to immigration from the Tropics to higher latitudes.
You idea is brilliant, if you do look into this perhaps you can make a thread about this and we can discuss.
Did colonisation enforce the idea of dark skin people are of lower class?
Thraldom has done large amounts of scathe to peoples' views of black people. It is a fact that in Asia people are obsessed with wanting to look whiter like using the skin whitening products which are on sale in many places in Asia.
I used to have a Sino Malaysian who used this product and were in competition with me about who looked fairer but I always won because in my case it is genetics ands shefs always very annoyed about it. :rolleyes: Silly competition, really...
Moreover the fact that blepharoplasty surgeries to look more Caucasoid looking are popular among East Asians, in particular Koreans who are born with 75 percent single eye lids while Chinese and Japanese are born with 50 percent single eye lids.
Lastly, long, long time ago in China there were dark skin Chinese heroes like Judge Bao for example, and since China was a closed society back then that meant they didnft have much contact with the west. So why now Chinese are so obsessed with looking fair, does it have something to do with the impact of colonisation that being white means superiority?
Did colonisation enforce the idea of dark skin people are of lower class?
I don't think so as black people were already used as slaves in Ancient Times, and darker skin people were/are seen as inferior in India or East Asia (hence the obsession with having the whitest skin as possible).
So why now Chinese are so obsessed with looking fair, does it have something to do with the impact of colonisation that being white means superiority?
I think that most Chinese look as white as Caucasians. I don't think that it is an recetn influence of the West, as most modern Westerners try to get suntanned rather than have very white skin. Medfiterranean have less white skin and darker hair and eyes than northern Europeans, yet they were the ones ruling the Roman empire and calling northern people "barbarian". So I don't think that being the fair skinned was a symbol of status in the antiquity. It might have changed with the Germanic and Viking invasion, as old European monarchies (France, Germany, England, Russia...) were established by Germanic invadors.
It seems like a good question and a very interesting theory. I have seen in several different cultures- even within a group of people with similar skin color a preference for lighter skin.
Then why are dark skinned people still dark? :thinking:
If that preference exists in every time and place, there would be no dark skinned people around.
(Natural selection)
If you have "seen" it... it is because of modern and engraved racist visions prevalent in our times.
Are agrarian societies the reason why skin colour is selected as the criteria for colonial racism?
Is racism towards dark skin people an outcome of colonization, or simply a question of class?
....
What are the reasons that in the period of the epoch of colonization, the ideology of race centralized so much on skin colours, and what were the reasons that this was so easily acknowledged? Did it have something to do with agrarian societies?
It has to relate with (european) colonialism.
By the way, there were European "colonialism" against Europeans too... (England - Ireland, Russia - Caucasus)... and they were related also with ideologies of "racial superiority", not necessarily related with skin color.
But as the European colonialism moved to the more sunny parts of the Earth (South America, South East Asia, Africa)... the most evident difference was skin color.
The enquiry here is very subtlety: what is the mental backdrop for selecting skin colour as a racial indicant; why not select another indicant, like placement? Why did the light versus dark continuum add up as a racial indicant, but yet say the East versus West continuum didn't?
Civilization in Europe moved from South to North... and if you like, it even began with the Egyptians... The last being "civilized" (they had in reality their own civilization, but endulge me here) were precisely the Vikings and other Scandinavians...
However, the racist mentality from the colonial period of Europe, now infect the visions of "worthiness" and "europeaness" inside Europe itself!!
Now we have in this forum people from Iberia, Italy and Greece, struggling to demonstrate that "I am also white and European". They have even grown a complex about it.
"What goes around, comes around".
Regards.
Did colonisation enforce the idea of dark skin people are of lower class?
Again, that's my idea. It was that created originally that view on Europeans. Romans for example, where Mediterranean types and didn't look at peoples in Gaul or Germania, like "superior types", precisely.
It is a fact that in Asia people are obsessed with wanting to look whiter like using the skin whitening products which are on sale in many places in Asia.
Not only there.
In Latin America, Africa, East Asia, India, North America... even within Europe itself!!!... those products sell a lot.
In Asia, Africa and South America, the pervasiveness of fair-skinned beauties in the media, as well as the cultural preference towards lighter skin has fuelled public demand for skin lightening products. The tendency of pigmented skin to be more prone to developing hyper pigmentation has also contributed to this demand. This is evidenced by the fact that in Hong Kong, Malaysia, Philippines, South Korea and Thailand, nearly 2 out of 5 women use skin lightening creams.
Source: http://www.chinatownconnection.com/skin-lightening-products.htm
It has to be with our view that "white is powerful", "white is beautiful"... and belive me, such "values" are not receding. From my point of view, they get more extreme as time advance.
I used to have a Sino Malaysian who used this product and were in competition with me about who looked fairer but I always won because in my case it is genetics ands she�fs always very annoyed about it. :rolleyes: Silly competition, really...
Moreover the fact that blepharoplasty surgeries to look more Caucasoid looking are popular among East Asians,
Difficult to tell what I think of those interventions. If they really help those people to have a little self-steem, they do not harm them.
What is harmful, is to have a "colonized" view of themselves... even people that in reality, never were trully colonized, for example Japanese or Chinese...
Lastly, long, long time ago in China there were dark skin Chinese heroes like Judge Bao for example, and since China was a closed society back then that meant they didn�ft have much contact with the west. So why now Chinese are so obsessed with looking fair, does it have something to do with the impact of colonisation that being white means superiority?
No, China in reality was not "colonized" in the real meaning of the word. However, the westernized Media portray that image: "white is powerful", "white is beutiful"... and there you are.
Ah! And this "colonial mentality" is not a term I made up...
Colonial mentality refers to institutionalised or systemic feelings of inferiority within some societies or peoples who have been subjected to colonialism, relative to the mores or values of the foreign powers which had previously subjugated them.[citation needed] The concept essentially refers to the acceptance, by the colonised, of the culture or doctrines of the coloniser as intrinsically more worthy or superior. The subject matter is quite controversial.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_mentality
Regards.
Now we have in this forum people from Iberia, Italy and Greece, struggling to demonstrate that "I am also white and European". They have even grown a complex about it.
That's because Hollywood movies and american tv series have spread wrong archetypes about us. We are on our right to reveal ourselves at world as we are and not as americans show us, there's no complex about it just a self-determination spirit. And I don't know why this should bother anyone.
The problem comes everytime we said "we are not like mexicans / latin americans". Wherever or however we said this there are always mexicans who get hurt in their feelings and start to act like bitter and paranoic a**holes... why? Probably their traumas from the colonization times are still alive. Native americans always felt inferior to the european colonizers and that inferiority complex have apparently survived 200 years after the Latin American wars of Independence... truthly a sad thing.
Greetings.
By the way no iberian, italian or greek posted in this thread until you did... Are you going to bump all the old threads related to this matter just to moaning about us? :rolleyes2:
This mexican guy has serious mental problems...
I don't think so as black people were already used as slaves in Ancient Times, and darker skin people were/are seen as inferior in India or East Asia (hence the obsession with having the whitest skin as possible)....Medfiterranean have less white skin and darker hair and eyes than northern Europeans, yet they were the ones ruling the Roman empire and calling northern people "barbarian". So I don't think that being the fair skinned was a symbol of status in the antiquity. It might have changed with the Germanic and Viking invasion, as old European monarchies (France, Germany, England, Russia...) were established by Germanic invadors.
Since this thread was "reopened" today after 3 years I want to add that during the ancient years, Greeks (and Romans) considered themselves superior to the northern tribes. They used to call everyone who didn't speak Greek "a barbarian" and they believed that their complexion was the ideal because they didn't burn easily in the sun like northerns and at the same time they were not dark as the civilizations of Africa and Middle East they had encountered.
The island of Dilos (Δήλος) at the Aegean Sea was at that time the center of the slave-trade. Romans and Greeks used to live there and there were days that more than 10.000 slaves were sold. Many of them were north-eastern Europeans and not only Africans as many believe.
I've read many theories about the etymology of the word Slav and one of them is that it comes from the word sklavos(σκλάβος) in Greek and slave in English
He won't give up... this kind of people just can't avoid to b*tch about us it's something pathological I think.
By the way no iberian, italian or greek posted in this thread until you did... Are you going to bump all the old threads related to this matter just to moaning about us? :rolleyes2:
Haven't we promised to ignore each other in these Forums... :useless:
Well... I guess now we have both broken that agreement. :sad-2:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That's because Hollywood movies and american tv series have spread wrong archetypes about us. We are on our right to reveal ourselves at world as we are and not as americans show us, there's no complex about it just a self-determination spirit. And I don't know why this should bother anyone.
I don't know if I could help you with your problem... :sad-2:
I don't know if I should recommend you, that before you go to bed, you recite 50 times a Mantra:
"I am descendant of Celts... I am decendant of Celts... "
... or plainly, recommend you to give up all that cr*p, stop bending the reality, and just live your life.
Which one do you think it will make you feel better, and less bitter? That is what Terapy is all about.
The problem comes everytime we said "we are not like mexicans / latin americans". Wherever or however we said this there are always mexicans who get hurt in their feelings and start to act like bitter and paranoic a**holes... why? Probably their traumas from the colonization times are still alive. Native americans always felt inferior to the european colonizers and that inferiority complex have apparently survived 200 years after the Latin American wars of Independence... truthly a sad thing.
Yes, there are stupid Mexicans that cannot live without thinking that their ancestors come "pure" from some little village in Valencia o Cataluña... the poor b*st*rds. :startled:
But you know, I am not one of them.
I do not feel inferior to the average European, much less the average Spaniard... Or, do you see me obsessed trying to "explain" how much "white" I am? No.
(If I am personally very "white" or very "dark" or something in between, you will never know, because it is a subject that does not worth 2 cents to me.)
Try again to pull that string about "inferiority complex": I guess that every time you see and Arab or a Turk, you feel that you hate him... and don't know why.
Cambrius (The Red)
18-12-09, 21:14
The bottom line is that, generally, few people take kindly to being depicted as something other than what they actually are, ethnically. Unfortunately, stereotypical images projected in exaggerated forms through mass media vehicles semiotically have an enduring (and potentially psychologically damaging) effect on a large number of ethnic groups, particularly in a world where an alarming number of people are grossly undereducated and lack cultural awareness.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with correcting misconceptions about your ethnicity. It can be considered as part of a process fundamental to identity formation and actualization. One can say that it is a primal propensity all of us have in our psyche. Certainly, if I'm Scottish I don't want to be confused with being Australian or American, etc. My self perception and ethnic identity images have been Scottish from birth and you expect others to understand that, at least in a basic way.
Wow, the guy just exploded. :shocked:This mexican guy certainly has serious mental problems...
http://www.nacion.com/ln_ee/ESPECIALES/raices/2006/enero/17/castasmestiza1.jpg
You guys aren't still able to accept your past and the fact that you are mostly mestizos and native americans??
What's the problem with just saying "mexicans and spaniards are cultural and ethnicallly different" then? Is that something offensive??? Why do you get angry then??? Does that bug you so much?? Really??
Seriously dude, seek for professional help. I pity you. :disappointed:
What's the problem with just saying "mexicans and spaniards are cultural and ethnicallly different" then? Is that something offensive??? Why do you get angry then??? Does that bug you so much?? Really?? Seriously dude, seek for professional help. I pity you. :disappointed:
Is it not the 3rd time you answer that very question? :bored:
And EVERY time, I have answered: No.
(Denial of reality, is one of the unequivocal signs of a psychological problem. )
It is you, who have to look for some help. It is not just me who sees it... stop denying the reality, in the various ways you do.
Regards.
The bottom line is that, generally, few people take kindly to being depicted as something other than what they actually are, ethnically. Unfortunately, stereotypical images projected in exaggerated forms through mass media vehicles semiotically have an enduring (and potentially psychologically damaging) effect on a large number of ethnic groups, particularly in a world where an alarming number of people are grossly undereducated and lack cultural awareness.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with correcting misconceptions about your ethnicity. It can be considered as part of a process fundamental to identity formation and actualization. One can say that it is a primal propensity all of us have in our psyche. Certainly, if I'm Scottish I don't want to be confused with being Australian or American, etc. My self perception and ethnic identity images have been Scottish from birth and you expect others to understand that, at least in a basic way.
Nice explanation. But don't bother trying to explain our point he won't get it.
This poor guy it's a complete m**on who gets irritated for no reason... well apparently the fact that we don't considerer mexicans ethnically like us it's something offensive for him that make us look like racist and complex about ourselves. If that isn't moronic I don't know what it is...
.....if I'm Scottish I don't want to be confused with being Australian or American, etc. My self perception and ethnic identity images have been Scottish from birth and you expect others to understand that, at least in a basic way.
I bet that if you were Scottish your main concern would be that people don't consider you English :laughing:
However I know what you mean. Japanese don't want to be considered Chinese by westerns who think that "all Asians look the same", Dutch don't like it when they are considered Germans, Greeks don't want to be confused as Bulgarians or Turkish and they don't want Skopjians to take away from them their Macedonian identity "just 'cause" , many English still think it's an insult to be called Irish-Scottish-Welsh and the later freak out when you call them English (I've learnt from my mistakes concerning this matter :grin:) and Iberians don't want to be considered Latinos.
It's normal for human beings to think like that and it is has nothing to do with racism...
I bet that if you were Scottish your main concern would be that people don't consider you English :laughing:
Afortuntely for Scots englishmen don't suffer from inferiority complex. :smile:
Since this thread was "reopened" today after 3 years I want to add that during the ancient years, Greeks (and Romans) considered themselves superior to the northern tribes. They used to call everyone who didn't speak Greek "a barbarian" and they believed that their complexion was the ideal because they didn't burn easily in the sun like northerns and at the same time they were not dark as the civilizations of Africa and Middle East they had encountered.
It is something that we have to keep in perspective: There was a time, were "Europe" from a civilizatorian point of view, was really located around the Aegean Sea.
The Minoic civilization that was one of the roots of Greek, could trace its History since 3,500 years before Christ. That is much more deeper than what many nations of Western Europe could boast.
Even something as the Megalitic constructions (e.g. Stonehenge) are really not older than the Zigurats or Piramids, or the Palace of Cnossos in Crete.
The civilization started in the Mediterranean.
Thinking that white people are the biggest racists is a big misconception. Last 500 years of Caucasian’s domination of other races and enslaving millions makes people think so. The domination wasn’t based on hatred but on economical benefits.
Racism exists in all races and cultures on Earth with fairly equal intensity.
Racism is not an European invention, it always existed everywhere in every group. Portuguese didn’t run around in Africa rounding up the slaves. The slave market existed in West African countries before they arrived, slaves were local commodities, local culture with long slave tradition. It’s common for one tribe to enslave people from other tribe, all around the world. If you like it or not, black people captured black people and sold them to Portuguese.
I’d say, racism has its roots in basic emotion like aggression against common enemy. It is exactly same emotion of hatred and aggression towards people of different religion or class. This even exists in all territorial mammal spices. One group of wolves chases away other group from their territory. Some can be surprised, but there are well documented records on video, of one group chimpanzees attacking other group, and killing some in process, just because the others were trespassing through their land.
The differences for group aggression can be quite subtle; like soccer fans from other part of same city, or migrant workers from other town stealing our jobs, etc. Of course, if differences between groups are more visible and obvious the easier to segregate the groups and unleash aggression.
Aggression and hatred towards different group has deep evolutionary roots. We are basically born to be racists, laugh at and ridicule others, romanticize and exaggerate our importance. All of it because these traits of behavior were very beneficial for survivor of our ancestors. It made the group more united therefore stronger against common enemy. Unfortunately the legacy of it hunts us now when we’re trying to build one big and happy global village.
Things like education of our kids in spirit of equality, tolerance, inclusivity will help us a lot. We should have same human rights, privileges, responsibility and opportunities. We should be equal under any political, social and religious laws. This will help us a lot, but the racism will never go away.
Did you notice that the fear place big role in it too? How come we are so scared of many different things, basically the things that we are not used to, and ready to ridicule? Things like: disfigured people, people of different races (if not growing up in multicultural country), people dressed up differently (old fashion), stranger knocking at your door, different sexual behavior, etc…
For me fear related to differences has strong evolutionary heritage, and obviously had positive role in our ancestor’s evolution.
Also this trait will hamper our global community, but this could be fixed to some extend through exposing our young to all world’s varieties.
Other thing that stands in the way of global village is that even if we are totally equal in rights, we never will be the same. We are not born as clean slate; we are born with programmed physical and mental abilities, characters, temperaments, and predispositions etc. that are stronger and more prevalent (statistically speaking) in one race than another. Different races are product of tens of thousand years of evolution in different geographical regions, and to some extend (most likely) intermingling with local hominid spices. Personally, I don’t like it at all, because it screws up my romantic view of harmonious global village, but my logic leads me to this explanation, that I can’t resist.
But maybe we’ll be fine, and in 1000 year or so, we’ll be nicely mixed into one race and culture, and racial, religious and class hatred will be a thing of a past.
Cheers
Personally, I don’t like it at all, because it screws up my romantic view of harmonious global village, but my logic leads me to this explanation, that I can’t resist.
But maybe we’ll be fine, and in 1000 year or so, we’ll be nicely mixed into one race and culture, and racial, religious and class hatred will be a thing of a past.
Cheers
I am strongly opposed to this. I think people have the right to preserve their identity, culture, traditions, instead of making a homogeneus mixed globalized world.
Cambrius (The Red)
18-12-09, 23:18
I bet that if you were Scottish your main concern would be that people don't consider you English :laughing:
However I know what you mean. Japanese don't want to be considered Chinese by westerns who think that "all Asians look the same", Dutch don't like it when they are considered Germans, Greeks don't want to be confused as Bulgarians or Turkish and they don't want Skopjians to take away from them their Macedonian identity "just 'cause" , many English still think it's an insult to be called Irish-Scottish-Welsh and the later freak out when you call them English (I've learnt from my mistakes concerning this matter :grin:) and Iberians don't want to be considered Latinos.
It's normal for human beings to think like that and it is has nothing to do with racism...
Thank you, Marianne. Insightful comments as usual... :good_job:
Cambrius (The Red)
18-12-09, 23:20
Thinking that white people are the biggest racists is a big misconception. Last 500 years of Caucasian’s domination of other races and enslaving millions makes people think so. The domination wasn’t based on hatred but on economical benefits.
Racism exists in all races and cultures on Earth with fairly equal intensity.
Racism is not an European invention, it always existed everywhere in every group. Portuguese didn’t run around in Africa rounding up the slaves. The slave market existed in West African countries before they arrived, slaves were local commodities, local culture with long slave tradition. It’s common for one tribe to enslave people from other tribe, all around the world. If you like it or not, black people captured black people and sold them to Portuguese.
I’d say, racism has its roots in basic emotion like aggression against common enemy. It is exactly same emotion of hatred and aggression towards people of different religion or class. This even exists in all territorial mammal spices. One group of wolves chases away other group from their territory. Some can be surprised, but there are well documented records on video, of one group chimpanzees attacking other group, and killing some in process, just because the others were trespassing through their land.
The differences for group aggression can be quite subtle; like soccer fans from other part of same city, or migrant workers from other town stealing our jobs, etc. Of course, if differences between groups are more visible and obvious the easier to segregate the groups and unleash aggression.
Aggression and hatred towards different group has deep evolutionary roots. We are basically born to be racists, laugh at and ridicule others, romanticize and exaggerate our importance. All of it because these traits of behavior were very beneficial for survivor of our ancestors. It made the group more united therefore stronger against common enemy. Unfortunately the legacy of it hunts us now when we’re trying to build one big and happy global village.
Things like education of our kids in spirit of equality, tolerance, inclusivity will help us a lot. We should have same human rights, privileges, responsibility and opportunities. We should be equal under any political, social and religious laws. This will help us a lot, but the racism will never go away.
Did you notice that the fear place big role in it too? How come we are so scared of many different things, basically the things that we are not used to, and ready to ridicule? Things like: disfigured people, people of different races (if not growing up in multicultural country), people dressed up differently (old fashion), stranger knocking at your door, different sexual behavior, etc…
For me fear related to differences has strong evolutionary heritage, and obviously had positive role in our ancestor’s evolution.
Also this trait will hamper our global community, but this could be fixed to some extend through exposing our young to all world’s varieties.
Other thing that stands in the way of global village is that even if we are totally equal in rights, we never will be the same. We are not born as clean slate; we are born with programmed physical and mental abilities, characters, temperaments, and predispositions etc. that are stronger and more prevalent (statistically speaking) in one race than another. Different races are product of tens of thousand years of evolution in different geographical regions, and to some extend (most likely) intermingling with local hominid spices. Personally, I don’t like it at all, because it screws up my romantic view of harmonious global village, but my logic leads me to this explanation, that I can’t resist.
But maybe we’ll be fine, and in 1000 year or so, we’ll be nicely mixed into one race and culture, and racial, religious and class hatred will be a thing of a past.
Cheers
Excellent thoughts...
Cambrius (The Red)
18-12-09, 23:21
I am strongly opposed to this. I think people have the right to preserve their identity, culture, traditions, instead of making a homogeneus mixed globalized world.
Indeed... :good_job:
Cambrius (The Red)
18-12-09, 23:33
Is it not the 3rd time you answer that very question? :bored:
And EVERY time, I have answered: No.
(Denial of reality, is one of the unequivocal signs of a psychological problem. )
It is you, who have to look for some help. It is not just me who sees it... stop denying the reality, in the various ways you do.
Regards.
Just what reality are you talking about, that Spaniards are completely different from Mexicans? That certainly IS reality, no question at all. No Iberian or other Southern European individual posting here is denying reality in any way. However, perhaps you are? Do you construct your own pseudo-realities about others for reasons of insecurity? Engage in a little introspection, it's therapeutic...
Just what reality are you talking about, that Spaniards are completely different from Mexicans? That certainly IS reality, no question at all. No Iberian or other Southern European individual posting here is denying reality in any way. However, perhaps you are? Do you construct your own pseudo-realities about others for reasons of insecurity? Engage in a little introspection, it's therapeutic...
Really, man, now I understand with some other Europeans here, cannot stand you... :confused2:
I guess that what is left of your little self-steem depends on the consolation, that someone (anyone) could even wish to be like you...
Oh, man!!
mexican army
http://us.starmedia.com/serviciosstm/img/es/ejercito_mexico_0505G.jpg
spanish army
http://comunidad.laopinioncoruna.es/servicios/galeriasMultimedia/media/8127/imagenes/1255358934226_diahispanidad_02.jpg
Who's denying reality?
How come we're being racist for just stating reality?
If I say chinese people are ethnically different from japanese people am i being racist to either chineses or japaneses?
Seriously, If you have problem with people stating reality seek for professional help. Good luck.
Really, man, now I understand with some other Europeans here, cannot stand you... :confused2:
No european here have complained about our comments but you (who aren't european).
We have no issues with other european countries and we can't say the same about Latin american: Argentinians and many center-americans can't stand mexicans... I wonder why. :innocent:
For me is Ok that you continue to post photo after photo that shows the racial difference among Mexicans and Spaniards... the soldiers you show look surprisingly homogeneous, and I assume they all belong to the same region, from the same ethnic group, probably from the Guerrero State. Even among pure Amerindians, there are many racial types.
The truth is that we are a blended country, and what you usually see in the streets, is that blend...
http://www.revistaitec.com/blogs/cem/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/dscf4548.JPG
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On the other hand, I never denied that on average, the Spaniards are more white... I have never questioned that... but if you like, we have to see that the most famous Spanish actors of our time cannot be confounded with scandinavians, if you ask me...
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00803/460-Javier-Bardem_803139c.jpg
I don't know if that is also the "Conspiration from Hollywood", that you so much mention. :thinking:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Finally, there could be a lot of Latin American in Spain... but NOT Mexicans... we do not need to go there... there are much more Spaniards (5 or 10 times more) in Mexico, that Mexicans in Spain.
1 United States 14,264,600
2 China 7,916,4291
3 Japan 4,354,368
4 India 3,288,345
5 Germany 2,910,490
6 Russia 2,260,907
7 United Kingdom 2,230,549
8 France 2,130,383
9 Brazil 1,981,207
10 Italy 1,814,557
11 Mexico 1,548,007
12 Spain 1,396,881
13 South Korea 1,342,338
14 Canada 1,303,234
15 Turkey 915,184
16 Indonesia 908,242
17 Iran 819,799
If the average Spaniard were as obnoxious as you, I think that it will be time to recall our nationals and send you yours... :thinking:
On the other hand, I never denied that on average, the Spaniards are more white... I have never questioned that... but if you like, we have to see that the most famous Spanish actors of our time cannot be confounded with scandinavians, if you ask me...
Indeed we are closer to Scandinavians than to you...in fact we have basically nothing to do with you genetically...(Oh ! sorry I hurt you ?)
by the way Javier Bardem is from Canary Islands..not the best place to show true peninsular Iberians..
This is a European forum about european things...not about Latin Americans..please open your own Forum, and stop ruining this forum
There are like 140 millions of population in Mexico and the average mexican doesn't look anything like the guys you posted. I can also post pics of blonde spaniards... but that won't change the fact that average spaniards are brunettes.
And I don't know why you have to talk about mexican inmigrants or scandinavians... we haven't said a word about it. :rolleyes2: This clearly show that you have self-esteem problem and issues about your nationality.
Then again, you know the average mexicans look like this:
http://us.starmedia.com/serviciosstm/img/es/ejercito_mexico_0505G.jpg
http://monicamateos.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/seleccion-mexicana-de-la-verguenza.jpg
And average spaniards like this:
http://comunidad.laopinioncoruna.es/servicios/galeriasMultimedia/media/8127/imagenes/1255358934226_diahispanidad_02.jpg
http://elheraldomontanes.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/20080507elpepudep_3.jpg
I pray that you sleep well tonight. :good_job:
I am strongly opposed to this. I think people have the right to preserve their identity, culture, traditions, instead of making a homogeneus mixed globalized world.
I absolutely agree, every country and nation should have a right to create its own destiny.
But look at the world, it has shrunk, and people are mixing faster than ever before. As long as individuals will have a free hand to choose his/her mate then all races will continue to mix. You would need to implement dictatorship to stop it, or create a religious sect. Most likely you would only slow it down. Even Jews are not exactly same Jews that left Israel 2000 years ago.
At the end of the day, no mater how hard you will bang your had on the wall and call all gods to help you, the one race scenario will happen.....unless civilization collapses and we're back in caves.
LeBrok, Wilhelm didn't talk about mixed races but culture and traditions. Jews are not racially the same they were 2000 years ago... but they've managed to keep their traditions pretty well.
I think that to play the photo war ist tasteless, and show a really a
fundamental lack of decency... But then again, I will not allow you to go
away with it as easily...
Spaniards:
http://noticiasjovenes.com/000604a.jpg
http://deportes.orange.es/deportes/img/efe/2103777w.jpg
http://www.futbol91.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/xavi__elmundoes.jpg
...
By contrast, the feminine Mexican voley-ball team, looks "white"...
http://voleibolmexico.com/files/Presentacion-del-equipo-mexicano.jpg
http://voleibolmexico.com/files/Equipo_mexicano_0.jpg
++++++++++++++++++++
Unfortunatelly, the Spanish inferiority complex of being the most swarthy
european types available, garantee that we will have much more post
and themes, in which the Spaniards pretend to present themselves as
the "core" of the celtic culture...
I wonder if the Germanic tribes would not finally have their craddle in the
center of Iberia... but with honest researchers like Lynx and "Wilhelm"
( :D ) here... well, who knows.
LOL. This guy is like the Duracell Bunny.
This article may help us to understand his behavior:
http://jar.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/17/3/303
Ethnic Identity and Self-Esteem of Latino Adolescents
Distinctions Among The Latino Populations
Adriana J. Umaña-Taylor
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Marcelo Diversi
Utah State University
Mark A. Fine
University of Missouri–Columbia
This article reviews 21 empirical studies in which the relationship between self-esteem and ethnic identity among Latino adolescents was examined.
This analysis indicates that for some conceptualizations of ethnic identity there has been a positive relationship between ethnic identity and self-esteem, whereas with other conceptualizations the relationships between ethnic identity and self-esteem have been inconsistent.
The methodological limitations of the existing work are also examined. Despite the differences in conceptualization and the methodological limitations, the existing research suggests a positive relationship between degree of ethnic identification and self-esteem for Latinos who live in areas where their Latino group composes the majority of the Latino population.
Cambrius (The Red)
19-12-09, 03:07
I think that to play the photo war ist tasteless, and show a really a
fundamental lack of decency... But then again, I will not allow you to go
away with it as easily...
Spaniards:
http://noticiasjovenes.com/000604a.jpg
http://deportes.orange.es/deportes/img/efe/2103777w.jpg
http://www.futbol91.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/xavi__elmundoes.jpg
...
By contrast, the feminine Mexican voley-ball team, looks "white"...
http://voleibolmexico.com/files/Presentacion-del-equipo-mexicano.jpg
http://voleibolmexico.com/files/Equipo_mexicano_0.jpg
++++++++++++++++++++
Unfortunatelly, the Spanish inferiority complex of being the most swarthy
european types available, garantee that we will have much more post
and themes, in which the Spaniards pretend to present themselves as
the "core" of the celtic culture...
I wonder if the Germanic tribes would not finally have their craddle in the
center of Iberia... but with honest researchers like Lynx and "Wilhelm"
( :D ) here... well, who knows.
Give me a break. What are you trying to prove? There you go, creating pseudo-realities again...
This may help aswell to understand why he is making a fool of himself...
Mexican complex of inferiority, origins, solutions.
Ok, I'm writing this thread asking for input from all sources, but please keep it objective, neutral and respectul.
I have to say that it bothers me a lot to see how a lot of people in my country have such an inferiority complex!!!
People is always complaining about how bad things are here, how everything sucks, how we don't have hope for a better future, and all kinds of remarks that are completely negative and false.
"Unsound intellection is false understanding, not resting on a perception of the true nature of things."
"When the object is not truly perceived, when the observation is inaccurate and faulty. thought or reasoning based on that mistaken perception is of necessity false and unsound."
It is obvious that these ideas are far from being real, they just exist in the minds of some people born in this country (Mexico), but as everything is influenced by our mindset, this is reflected in the way we despise and reject our culture and regard it as inferior, people are way to fascinated with foreign influences, specially those who come from the United States and feel that we aren't in the same level, while this is nonsense. We go as far as denying any positive aspects of our indigenous inheritance as an inferior culture that has to be forgotten.
what could be the cause of such an inferiority complex? and how could it be solved? Octavio Paz speaks about it in his book The Labyrinth of Solitude
"Solitude is the profoundest fact of the human condition. Man is the only being who knows he is alone, and the only one who seeks out another. His nature-if that word can be used in reference to man, who has ‘invented’ himself by saying ‘no’ to nature- consists in his longing to realize himself in another. Man is nostalgia and a search for communion. Therefore, when he is aware of himself he is aware of his lack of another, that is, of his solitude."
Paz observes that solitude is responsible for the Mexican’s perspective on death, ‘fiesta’, and identity. Death is seen as an event that is celebrated but at the same time repelled because of the uncertainty behind it. As for the fiestas, they express a sense of communality, crucially emphasizing the idea of not being alone and in so doing helps to bring out the true Mexican that is usually hidden behind a mask of self-denial. This represents the way in which the Mexicans have inherited two distinct cultures, the indigenous and the Spanish, but by denying one part of their identity they become stuck in a world of solitude.
From the essay ‘The Conquest and Colonialism’ onwards, Paz makes a detailed analysis of Mexican history beginning with a look at their Pre-Columbian culture and in particular reflecting on the 1910 Revolt. In his analysis, he expresses how the humanists take a primary role as the intellectuals of the country. His major criticism is that to be an intellectual it is necessary to distance oneself from the subject that you are studying so that the argument remains critical yet rational and objective. While the intellectual gets more involved with the political environment, his arguments can often become influenced by other factors such as political motivation and pressure to conform.
What are your thoughts on this subject?
Mine are that people in this country should travel more, get to know other cultures and countries and see how blessed we are, how great we are how special we are, being Mexican and born in Mexico is a blessing and we should thank God for that!
People in this country should see what is really a hard life, what is really poverty of not having anything to eat so they could stop complaining and start appreciating to live where we live and have what we have, and stop looking at or seeking superficial things, instead of looking and searching the interior.
People should start an inner fight with the objective of destroying for good those negative thoughts and that low self - perception, replacing it for the true perception of what we really are and develop a positive mindset. We are Mexicans, we are the children of advanced civilizations that were in many ways more advanced than the current civilizations that are leading our world to self destruction, and mankind to a prision of materialism, ignorance, emptiness, loneliness, we need to realize that our fascination for those cultures is fascination for death and destruction.
"Egotism is but the perversion of spiritual being. Ambition is the inversion of spiritual power. Passion is the distortion of love. The mortal is the limitation of the immortal. When these false images give place to true, then the spiritual man stands forth luminous, as the sun, when the clouds disperse."
http://www.city-data.com/forum/mexico/565275-mexican-complex-inferiority-origins-solutions.html
The most important Spanish actor of the moment...
http://img.blogdecine.com/2007/11/javier_bardem.jpg
I do not pretend to insult this guy... on the contrary, I think that its type have some kind of exotic charm... nothing personal against this great actor.
But you know... vulgar racists like Lynx, Wilhelm, etcetera... have a lot to
explain, specially, when they say that "Hollywood" purposelly tries now
and again to present them as "swarthy dirty Mexicans"
Regards.
You can also post pics of spanish-gipsy dancer Joaquin Cortes or pictures of mexican director Guillermo del Toro (who is from 100% spanish descent).
So what? That won't change reality. That won't change the FACT that Mexico is mostly a native american country and Spain is mostly a white and european country... If that bugs you It's your problem: Seek for professional help.
You clearly have to be one sick person to construtc your own reality and start calling people "vulgar racist" just for stating the racial reality of your country with pictures.
Have a nice life.
Mexican football fans (average mexicans):
http://www.chivaspasion.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/aficion-1.jpg
http://www.chivaspasion.com/wp-content/uploads/aficion-chivas-en-reja.jpg
Spanish football fans (average spaniards):
http://comunidad.superdeporte.es/servicios/galeriasMultimedia/media/5350/imagenes/1242255626573_20_1_34_309.jpg
http://estaticos02.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundo/imagenes/2009/05/07/1241690740_0.jpg
I'm sorry if these images hurt your feelings... :worried:
By contrast, the feminine Mexican voley-ball team, looks "white"...
They don't look european at all..they look Indian
Why it is so hard for you to accept that Mexico has nothing to do with Spain ?? :confused2:
Seriously, you need help
I've found another article that may help our beloved mexican friend:
Decolonization
The process of colonization begins with the physical occupation of land and the domination of the Indigenous people. Following the primarily physical aspects of colonization (ie. Military conflict, relocation, etc.) non-physical methods are applied. These include what could be called mental aspects. Religious indoctrination, cultural, social and economic assimilation are common examples. Therefore it could be said that colonization is comprised of two primary aspects - physical and mental.
Prior to colonization Indigenous peoples were free and sovereign nations. Through colonization Indigenous people are deprived of their freedom and live in an oppressed situation. In order to be liberated from this oppressive state the process of colonization must be reversed. That is, it must begin with the mental aspects and move towards the physical.
Colonization is always destructive. This destruction becomes internalized within the Indigenous person. Some basic characteristics of this are:
1. Internal violence and aggression
Anger and violence directed toward oneself, one another and
family/community. This includes rape, murder, assault, sexual abuse of children, suicide, etc. The irrational violence within the colonized Indigenous person results from the oppressed conditions that colonization imposes upon people. (ie. Poverty, loss of identity, breakdown of family and nation structure, etc.) Some of this comes from specific methods used by the colonizing nation, for example Residential schools, the reserve system, etc.
2. Individualism - self interest
With the breakdown of the nation and the family, fragmentation and competition has come to replace the sense of unity, community and togetherness that was once the basis of Indigenous society.
3. Neglecting one's culture - assimilation
A key tactic if colonization is to portray the Indigenous culture as negative and irrelevant to (modern) society. Once this belief is entrenched within the Indigenous person they have no alternative but to assimilate and conform to the colonialist society.
4. Inferiority complex - identity crisis
The objective of the colonialist is to have the Indigenous person believe that there is little or no positive aspects within the Indigenous culture. Physical and mental domination, constant negative portrayals of Indigenous people and history, and white supremacist attitudes plat fundamental roles in the creation of the Indigenous inferiority complex. The indigenous person begins to question their identity and becomes caught between the historical concept of the traditional Indian and present day reality. "Who am I?" "What does it mean to be an Indian?" Major contributing factors to these questions are Residential/public schools, fostering of Indigenous children, inaccurate histories, centralization in urban areas, loss of language and culture.
5. Abandoning of traditional territories
Colonization creates a feeling of Indigenous dependancy on colonially established towns (reserve - towns) and cities. In order to benefit from colonial programs and institutes Indigenous people must migrate to these areas and leave their traditional territories. The act of relocating and isolating Indigenous people into the reserve areas is a tactic used to force the people away from the majority of their territory. This allows the colonial state to assume jurisdiction over lands that were once controlled by Indigenous Nations. It also removes the Indigenous people physically to accommodate the establishment of settler communities and resource extraction. The current BC Treaty process is a way of legally entrenching, and acquiring consent for an agreed upon abandonment and surrender of traditional territories.
Decolonization, as mentioned earlier, is the act of reversing the process of colonization. It can be said that decolonization is constructive rather than destructive. the following methods of decolonization are aimed at reversing the destructive effects of colonialism that have been described above.
1. Raising the consciousness of the oppressive state that Indigenous people live in by exposure to a more realistic account of history and identifying an enemy that's creating and maintaining that oppression. An effective strategy can include proper counter-action methods such as: educating oneself and serving as an example for others, advocating sovereign Indigenous rights, and exercising and defending those rights and traditional territory. These activities provide experiences that instill a sense of purpose by involving people in actions that make a positive contribution to their communities and ultimately to their sense of self. Individual, family, then community healing must occur. During this healing process, irrational violence and aggression is dissolved and a more purposeful facet may be identified to vent negative feelings that remain from colonization.
2.Understanding you are a people and a Nation sharing the same ancestry. During the early steps of recovery, unity and togetherness play a vital role in the strengthening of the family and community units. An Indigenous person who is conscious of their oppressive history is also aware that they are not alone. The individualistic attitude introduced through colonization subsides to the Indigenous natural inclinations of caring and supporting one another. Self-interests also deteriorate and communal or national Indigenous interests become a key focus as a necessity in the process of decolonization.
3. Revitalizing a sense of nationality and appreciating the knowledge and ways of Indigenous ancestry. Traditional philosophies of respect and appreciation for the Earth, life, others and oneself are positive parts of Indigenous culture that are stillrelevant today. An understanding of the negative and positive aspects of the colonial society is important and education on the negative aspects must be emphasized, while positive aspects be utilized. It must be acknowledged that all Indigenous people are assimilated to one degree or another, no one is immune from colonial influence or assimilation. While this remains as true, it must also be accepted that Indigenous culture and ways are not static. If Indigenous people had not undergone the influence of colonialism, they would not be the exact same societies as those that existed at the time of intial contact. It is at this point that the Indigenous person must learn to exist within a colonial environment in a decolonized manner.
4. Recognizing the strength in Indigenous ways. While undergoing exposure to the truths of history, the Indigenous person realizes the fallacies and disinformation that the colonialist society circulates in regards to Indigenous history, culture and practices. It is important at this stage, to broaden the process of decolonization, to begin circulating more accurate and truthful accounts of Indigenous society. Firstly, re-education must be directed towards the Indigenous Nations and then focus may be directed towards people of other nationalities. As Indigenous people have acquired an inferiority complex through the oppressive lifestylethat they have become accustomed to, their initial reaction may be to overthrow their oppressor and gain control of the reigns. The Indigenous person must understand that the colonial society is destructive and the few positive aspects it does contain are the only beneficial components that can contribute to the process of decolonization. It is not feasible for a colonized Indigenous Nation to return to a totally traditional lifestyle, as their mentality and environment has been drastically transformed. However, an incorporation of positive aspects of (modern) society and ancestral Indigenous ways will contribute to overcoming the effects of inferiority and identity crisis.
5. Reoccupying traditional territory. This includes establishing permanent or semi-permanent camps and communities in areas previously occupied by the Indigenous Nation and now abandoned, as well as increasing traditional activities such as fishing, hunting, and other food gathering. A primary goal of such reoccupation would be eventually establishing self-sufficient and independent communities beyond the range and influence of colonial society. From these, sovereign and free territories can be reconstructed, ultimately removing Indigenous people from the colonial society - a primary aim of decolonization.
Colonization is constructive to the colonizing society, but destructive to the Indigenous society. In contrast, decolonization is constructive to Indigenous society, but destructive to the colonial society.
http://pacifichumanrights.tripod.com/index-1.html
Please learn something and go ahead.
PS. I've found more self-help articles that may interested you. Greetings.
Cambrius (The Red)
19-12-09, 03:46
I think that to play the photo war ist tasteless, and show a really a
fundamental lack of decency... But then again, I will not allow you to go
away with it as easily...
Spaniards:
http://noticiasjovenes.com/000604a.jpg
http://deportes.orange.es/deportes/img/efe/2103777w.jpg
http://www.futbol91.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/xavi__elmundoes.jpg
...
By contrast, the feminine Mexican voley-ball team, looks "white"...
http://voleibolmexico.com/files/Presentacion-del-equipo-mexicano.jpg
http://voleibolmexico.com/files/Equipo_mexicano_0.jpg
++++++++++++++++++++
Unfortunatelly, the Spanish inferiority complex of being the most swarthy
european types available, garantee that we will have much more post
and themes, in which the Spaniards pretend to present themselves as
the "core" of the celtic culture...
I wonder if the Germanic tribes would not finally have their craddle in the
center of Iberia... but with honest researchers like Lynx and "Wilhelm"
( :D ) here... well, who knows.
Most are light mestizos. Not likely there any fully white people in the photos. So, once again, what's your point?
And by the way, the most Whiter a mexican looks, the most Spanish blood he/she has.. Surprise !!
En serio, deja de arrastrarte que das penita...
Cambrius (The Red)
19-12-09, 03:51
Sapnish Military:
Voleyball is a sport for high-class people in Mexico (1% of the population :indifferent:) is almost like playing polo in Europe, it's something very elitist for them. And high-class people in Mexico use to have more european roots.
On the other hand, football is a more popular sport in that country... everyone can be a football player in Mexico.
This Sirius' guy can't be serious. :rolleyes2:
http://estaticos.20minutos.es/img/2006/10/30/525012.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2407/lcplkatherineepontillorc5.jpg
http://ecodiario.eleconomista.es/imag/efe/2009/01/23/1864292w.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2701/noticiasfotonoticia2743.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_t5QameakLdU/RgCOvlBWdgI/AAAAAAAAAA8/wY5H0f9Vwik/s400/basque-american.jpg
http://fotos0.mundofotos.net/2009/15_03_2009/cinemastars1237114318/maria-castro.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u21/MetricMarch/Xabi/d62b2567.jpg
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/509/jmmainat.png
http://www.losserrano.telecinco.es/imgsed/2612_duenagrande.jpg
Cambrius (The Red)
19-12-09, 03:56
Portuguese Military:
You realy don't get tired of this, uh?
I estimate is about 2:00 AM in Spain... :bored:
(I am not tired :cool-v: )
You don't get tired of acting like a mor*n with inferiority complex in front of spaniards? Yeah that was pretty clear. Your people have been acting that way for almost 500 years (and counting).
http://www.cervantesvirtual.com/portal/ercilla/graf/fotos/guerra/027425_0007arauco_s.jpg
:confused:
When he first came in and I saw his mexican flag, I knew what was coming
When he first came in and I saw his mexican flag, I knew what was coming
Me too. Internet is full of these resentful a**holes obsessed with spaniards. In our sport websites (Marca, As, Sport, MundoDeportivo...) in our news websites (El Pais, La Vanguardia, 20 minutos...) even in youtube (in any video related to Spain) you'll find it plenty of Latin americans ****** writing bull*hit about us... even when nobody is talking about them (what happens most of times).
It seems like some of them get paid to follow and harass us everywhere. They're like a biblical plague.
Ha, ha...
No... I am not tired... but honestly, I am full of the garbage that you put, and that I for a while, indulged myself in answering.
What is the problem with you?
Very simple: Being the most swarthy people of Europe, you feel compelled to open thread after thread of twisted bullshit, trying to demonstrate that you are "Celts", "Germans"... and sh*t like that, that make some French and Scotts, really versed in those themes, to stand on their heads.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25334
Then, you say that you are completely different to Mexicans, which I agree from the very beginning, but somehow, I fail to convey with plain words that message, because you insist and insist, that I somehow try to identify with you: NO, NO, and NO.
YOU are the ones that feel that there is some kind of strange conspiracy, so that the World think that Spaniards = Latin Americans... that Hollywood want to present Spaniards as Mexicans, etc.
The plain truth is, that you are simple "insecure" of your own "Europeaness", specially when you confound that "Europeaness" with the degree of "Whitness", at the style of any vulgar skinhead of the street.
You see? Everything point to that simple fact.
That is a question that make you mad, and will not be resolved in this thread, nor with any amount of "evidence", immediatly twisted to fit in your own agenda, to try calm your own insecurities...
"He is looking to me weird... he thinks I am an Arab... "
"She gave me the weird look,... she thinks I am Mexican..."
You are a sorry bunch.
Mexicans are not Europeans, that is clear. I don't know, why you live in fear to be confounded with one.
I for my part, spend months in a row, without having the concept "Spaniards" crossing my mind.
I don't need to say... what I am saying? With morons like you, I have to say it:
I do not want to be Spaniard, and I do not want to be coufounded with one, nor "identify" myself in any way... with "la madre patria".
Very simple: Being the most swarthy people of Europe, you feel compelled to open thread after thread of twisted bullshit, trying to demonstrate that you are "Celts", "Germans"... and sh*t like that, that make some French and Scotts, really versed in those themes, to stand on their heads.
You see ? You have also this stereotype about us being swarthy, and then you deny that such stereotypes exist ..contradiction is'n it ??
And yes, we are a very Celtic country, wether the French like it or not.
Then, you say that you are completely different to Mexicans, which I agree from the very beginning, but somehow, I fail to convey with plain words that message, because you insist and insist, that I somehow try to identify with you: NO, NO, and NO.
We are trying to explain this to the World, which, unfortunately, don't make the difference.
YOU are the ones that feel that there is some kind of strange conspiracy, so that the World think that Spaniards = Latin Americans... that Hollywood want to present Spaniards as Mexicans, etc.
It's not a conspiracy, it's a reality. Watch any movie about spaniards, for example 'Vintage Point", and tell me if the look like real spaniards.
Ask any american or canadian person who are Spanish, and what is spanish culture. Most of them will confuse it with latin americans, and they will say spanish culture is only bulls, beach, flamenco...
That's what we want to change, because I feel this is not my real country
The plain truth is, that you are simple "insecure" of your own "Europeaness", specially when you confound that "Europeaness" with the degree of "Whitness", at the style of any vulgar skinhead of the street.
Genetics tell that we are typically European..there is nothing insecure...
That is a question that make you mad, and will not be resolved in this thread, nor with any amount of "evidence", immediatly twisted to fit in your own agenda, to try calm your own insecurities...
"He is looking to me weird... he thinks I am an Arab... "
"She gave me the weird look,... she thinks I am Mexican..."
This never happens...there are no spaniards who look like mexicans or arabs...
Thanks God this frijolito is not obsessed with spaniards. // sarcasm.
If you don't want to be coufounded with spaniards then why you tried to make mexicans and spaniards look like the same with your pics???
None here is saying that we are like germans or scots, you f*cking m*ron. You get offended because we said "spaniards are not like mexicans" thus you want to be like spaniards because you guys are complexed about your native americans origins... that's the f*cking truth but you'll never admit it of course. Mexico is a country with a strong identity crisis because of the european colonization, face it and leave us alone you n*rd.
Cambrius (The Red)
19-12-09, 05:55
I suggest we all get back on topic. Some of the contributions are now bordering on the infantile.
I suggest Sirius should be banned..this forum was a quiet place before his arrival. This forum is about Europe not Latin America...
¿POR QUÉ EL MEXICANO SE CONSIDERA INFERIOR?
Rafael Mejía
Si el mexicano es un ser humano como cualquier otro, ¿por qué lo consideran (o se considera) inferior? El tema es ya común hasta en el deporte, pero tiene matices y un trasfondo que pocos conocen.
Cierto es que los clubes y selección mexicana de fútbol han sufrido ya varios reveses justo cuando se encontraban a un paso de la gloria, y que esto ha servido para revivir un tema que forma parte de la discusión cultural de la nación: el complejo de inferioridad del mexicano. Empero, esta pasión futbolera tiene sus riesgos, debido a que elimina de tajo al importante contrapeso que podrían representar, por ejemplo, los éxitos de equipos mexicanos de pelota vasca y tae kwan do, o de atletas minusválidos y figuras consagradas como la corredora Ana Guevara.
Yendo más a fondo podemos encontrar que el tema no es nuevo; luego de la Revolución mexicana, artistas, filósofos e intelectuales han discutido sobre la identidad de los habitantes de México, sobresaliendo escritos como los de Carlos Fuentes (El espejo enterrado, La muerte de Artemio Cruz) o Roger Bartra (La jaula de la melancolía); empero, los trabajos más recordados son de Octavio Paz (El laberinto de la soledad) y Samuel Ramos (El perfil del hombre y la cultura en México).
Si bien estos dos últimos libros han servido para cuestionar y aclarar aspectos sobre la identidad de nuestro pueblo, también han establecido estereotipos fuertemente cimentados de "lo que es ser mexicano" y sus complejos, curiosamente, sin consultar a los mismos mexicanos: estos escritos exponen reflexiones individuales y no conclusiones obtenidas a través de estudios de opinión.
Además de esto, tanto el premio Nóbel como el filósofo parecen haberse equivocado al restar importancia a lo individual y dar peso exclusivamente a lo colectivo. A este respecto, Alberto Montoya, psicoterapeuta perteneciente al Círculo Psicoanalítico Mexicano y ex-catedrático de la Facultad de Ciencias Políticas y Sociales de la Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México (UNAM), comenta que hablar de complejo de inferioridad es un tanto engañoso.
Aclara: "En realidad no podría decirse que es una característica del mexicano; complejo de inferioridad hay en Estados Unidos, Perú o Argentina, que en estos momentos es uno de los países latinoamericanos más golpeados, pues allí han pasado de las ideas narcisistas (propias de aquellos que se tienen en escasa consideración y buscan constantemente admiración y atención), de grandeza, a una ruina casi total en cuanto a su economía; también debe considerarse que muchas veces la idea de grandiosidad oculta exactamente lo contrario: gran desazón y sentirse inferior a otros".
Individuo y sociedad
Explica el psicoanalista que para comprender esta problemática se deben atender dos niveles: personal y colectivo. "A nivel individual, esto puede deberse a patologías narcisistas, y se presentan cuando un individuo está muy empobrecido internamente. Aunque aparentemente sea una persona normal, muy valorada por los demás, sobresaliente, brillante, adinerada, atractiva o que pueda contar con muchísimas cualidades, se siente 'poca cosa'; esto también depende, claro, de la historia de cada sujeto".
El hecho es tan variable que inclusive dentro de una misma familia existen casos contrastantes, debido a que una persona de este núcleo puede ser sobrevalorada y otra muy devaluada. Asimismo, suele ocurrir que un niño crezca muy "consentido", sobreprotegido por madre, abuela o tíos, y al crecer se convierta en un individuo que experimenta muchas carencias e imposibilidad para tolerar frustración y obstáculos, por lo que comenzará a sentirse deprimido y pensará que la vida es muy difícil y que no puede lograr lo que se propone.
Ya dentro de la dimensión social, Alberto Montoya piensa que no todos los mexicanos tienen complejo de inferioridad, pero sí reconoce que hay mayor tendencia a experimentar esta desvalorización en algunas clases sociales: sectores de bajos recursos, indígenas y grupos marginados. Esto se debe a una herencia que se transmite socialmente y que se vincula directamente con la historia nacional.
A decir del especialista, la cultura de los antiguos mexicanos fue muy humillada, lo que se refleja en movimientos indígenas como el zapatista. "Ellos son los más humillados, aplastados y sometidos, y el lugar que se les ha asignado es el campo, la servidumbre, una esclavitud disfrazada; por ello, además de los reclamos por la tenencia de las tierras, hay un intento de revalorar y tener un rostro, como dicen, para ser reconocidos; tienen necesidad de ser reparados por los otros ante esa sensación de humillación total que han sufrido".
La mentalidad del mexicano se ha reproducido desde la época de la conquista, cuando los europeos impusieron un sistema de sumisión ante el poderoso, aunque a los mismos españoles les asombró y hasta sedujo la cultura de los mesoamericanos. "El mestizaje se dio así, a partir de una raza que se creyó superior con otra raza que lució inferior a sus ojos, y que estaba para servirles", acota el psicólogo.
A pregunta expresa, el entrevistado comenta que esta relación de poder se vive todavía en el México contemporáneo, y cita un par de ejemplos. En primer término, comenta que muchos extranjeros se sorprenden cuando un mexicano responde "mande" en caso de que alguien le llama por su nombre, lo que es una muestra de servilismo.
Agrega: "Esto es más que una apariencia; es una pérdida de valores y la aceptación del dominio del 'otro', abrirle las puertas. Al hablar de la casa propia, el mexicano dice: 'la casa de usted'; la gente de otros países se desconcierta, lo oye raro aunque sea una cortesía. Esta forma de hablar muestra una apertura a lo extranjero, que implica una especie de conquista amorosa en que se es seducido por el 'otro', porque se supone que ese 'otro' que llega de fuera tiene algo valioso, que gusta y que en México no se encontrará".
Esta condición de servilismo, basada también en que mucha gente deposita sus esperanzas en una mejor existencia después de la muerte, en el "más allá", es aprovechada en la explotación de recursos naturales de la nación en beneficio de unos cuantos, durante las campañas políticas, donde aparecen líderes que hacen promesas de cambio para aparecer como redentores, o en el aprovechamiento de mano de obra barata: "El mexicano acepta la conquista, y aunque trabaja muchísimo (eso de que somos flojos es una gran mentira) se conforma con recibir una remuneración baja".
El mundo y la condición humana
Si bien todo lo ya mencionado puede dar una explicación acerca del llamado sentimiento de inferioridad, éste también tiene que ver con un contexto mundial que se ha desarrollado con el tiempo en beneficio de gente poderosa.
No es sólo que el mexicano se sienta inferior, sino que también lo tratan de esta forma, ya que el sistema global está diseñado para eso, dando oportunidad a un grupo reducido de individuos. La desigualdad se vuelve palpable, digamos, en cuanto a las condiciones laborales. "Si comparamos un salario mínimo en México con el de Francia o Estados Unidos -comenta el especialista-, hay una diferencia de 8 a 1. Esto corrobora o confirma la sensación de 'inferioridad' del mexicano; es un bombardeo constante de ideas que se combinan con la historia familiar, en donde es común encontrar un padre alcohólico o promiscuo y una madre abandonada, entre otros problemas sociales que se reproducen".
Al aceptar esta ideología mucha gente comienza a creerse inferior y a considerar que las posibilidades de ascenso están limitadas por las condiciones económicas; mejorar la calidad de vida se vuelve un sueño realizable a través de una telenovela o de ganar la lotería; se anhela poco, y se sabe que de ello aún menos se verá concretado.
Otro problema, a decir de Alberto Montoya, es que "en México somos más folcloristas que nacionalistas; hay un orgullo por la imagen más que un interés por el país, y estamos aparentemente felices con la música y los bailes, pero es algo muy artificial porque somos indiferentes a la explotación, a que mueran niños de hambre o se tengan problemas en estados tan ricos como Oaxaca, Chiapas o Guerrero. En el fondo el mexicano no se quiere, se siente humillado y no ha podido reparar eso por él mismo ni por el 'otro', que cuando llega lo aplasta y domina. El mexicano sigue sufriendo, y tal vez el complejo sólo es el efecto de que se le continúa considerando inferior por muchos, por él mismo para empezar".
En el nivel personal este problema puede enfrentarse a través de psicoterapia para dimensionar los conflictos de acuerdo a la historia de cada individuo y lograr una revaloración específica. En cuanto al aspecto social, Alberto Montoya considera que lo recomendable es la posibilidad de la educación, que la gente lea, asista a la escuela y se cuestione todo aquello que le rodea, esto con la finalidad de que "se reflexione sobre las barbaries y las injusticias de todos los días; en el fondo esa sensación del uso del poder salvaje, de destruir a otros sujetos, tiene que ver también con un estado de inferioridad del ser humano. En ese sentido, toda nuestra especie es inferior, pues al volverse más poderosa, su creatividad y valores son menores".
Ahonda: "En ese sentido es como si el ser humano, en vez de evolucionar, retrocediera, y todo esto tiene que ver con ambición, soledad o no encontrarle sentido a la vida, lo que a su vez facilita el deslumbrarse con ciertas cosas o pensar que somos más importantes. El ser humano se está destruyendo, hay una pulsión (deseo inconsciente) de muerte, como decía Sigmund Freud, que lo lleva a destruir al planeta; lo percibe y no hace nada por cambiar esta tendencia, al contrario, acelera el proceso y prefiere invertir en drogas o armamento".
En este sentido, opina el psicoanalista, el ser humano se comporta de modo inferior al animal, que es violento pero al mismo tiempo se apega a un orden, reproduce la vida. "Eso es el complejo de inferioridad; tal vez el ser humano (o algunos humanos) quiere aliviar su sensación de soledad y vacío sintiéndose Dios, y con ello sólo se destruye".
Finalmente, la idea del "complejo de inferioridad" del mexicano parece trascender los puntos comúnmente debatidos y encuentra una explicación no sólo a través de la observación histórica, condiciones sociales e interacción con otras naciones, sino en el conocimiento de la condición humana y su naturaleza profunda. Es algo que deja qué pensar, pero sobre lo cual cada quien tiene su propia opinión.
Lo ves frijolillo? Tienes que hacerte tratar de lo tuyo, por especialistas.
Cambrius (The Red)
19-12-09, 06:08
Obviously, some people are hell bent on wrecking any intelligent discussion on this thread (and others). Why, because it has to do with Iberian Celticity / ethnicty? Sick!
God forbid that Spaniards / Iberians defend themselves against racist slander and ignorant misconceptions. That's insecurity? How freaking pathetic. Why should we be harassed by insecure and brainless clowns, be they white, black, brown, whatever, for having a serious discussion on Celtic society and culture in Iberia?
Cambrius (The Red)
19-12-09, 06:34
I suggest Sirius should be banned..this forum was a quiet place before his arrival. This forum is about Europe not Latin America...
I agree that he should be banned. The man has come on this forum mainly to attack Spaniards. Why, because Spaniards want to eliminate absurd media stereotypes that depict them in ways similar to indigenous Latin Americans? ... :rolleyes2:
I've already told Maciamo that this guy was a latin american ***** (I'm feed up with this people). He posted a couple of post in the genetic forum just to dissemble his true intentions.
Bueno, esta claro ahora, con este hilo que ha reflotado, que este tipo no ha venido a hablar de genetica si no a intentar confundir, a discutir y a trollear.
NO es la primera vez que veo este tipo de hilos. Siempre es lo mismo. Uno selecciona las fotos que le interesan para sustentar su punto de vista y en este caso esta clara la manipulacion que este sujeto mexicano esta haciendo seleccionando fotos de determinadas personas (actores, etc.). Haciendo esto cualquier puede llegar a soportar su punto de vista. Incluso hay suecos que parecen españoles (yo los he conocido), podria poner su foto y con ello demostrar cuan españoles son los suecos.
Habia dado un voto de confianza a este sujeto, pero veo que es igual que en otros muchas paginas de internet que he visto. Es lo mismo.
Y veo que este sujeto se da el lujo de seguir insistiendo en ello aun cuando ya se ha dejado clara cual es la situacion con respecto a ellos.
Es claro que sirius solamente se expresa con el objetivo de "herir al contrario" :
very simple: Being the most swarthy people of Europe,
trying to demonstrate that you are "Celts", "Germans"... and sh*t like that, that make some French and Scotts, really versed in those themes, to stand on their heads.
Es claro esto. No pienso participar en ningun tipo de manupulacion ni siquiera para discutir algo que esta tan claro. Lo unico que a mi me interesan son los hechos historicos y cientificos no las manipulaciones individuales de un sujeto sea este de donde sea. Creo que el administrador de este foro tiene por objetivo que esta pagina sea lo mas objetiva posible. No veo que esto se este cumpliendo.
Mi tiempo es oro y no pienso perderlo en discutir obviedades con gente como este sirius2b, claramente herido en su orgullo por algun motivo que yo no alcanzo a entender. Es algo que me produce ardores de estomago.
http://estaticos.20minutos.es/img/2006/10/30/525012.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2407/lcplkatherineepontillorc5.jpg
http://ecodiario.eleconomista.es/imag/efe/2009/01/23/1864292w.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2701/noticiasfotonoticia2743.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_t5QameakLdU/RgCOvlBWdgI/AAAAAAAAAA8/wY5H0f9Vwik/s400/basque-american.jpg
http://fotos0.mundofotos.net/2009/15_03_2009/cinemastars1237114318/maria-castro.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u21/MetricMarch/Xabi/d62b2567.jpg
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/509/jmmainat.png
http://www.losserrano.telecinco.es/imgsed/2612_duenagrande.jpg
Estas son unas fotos que pueden expresar lo que yo estoy diciendo. Hasta que punto las fotos seleccionadas pueden estar manipuladas para sustentar lo que tu prentendes.
Segun estas fotos cualquier podria pensar que los españoles son todos rubios o pelirrojos de ojos azules cuando no es cierto. Mayormente somos de piel blanca y cabellos marrones (no negro) aunque tambien hay rubios, pelirrojos, etc y tambien hay algunos mas morenos, lo mismo que sucede en cualquier pais del mundo sea este el que sea. Igualmente segun ha puesto este tipo de mexico, cualquiera podria pensar que todos los españoles son de look exotico y piel tono oliva lo cual es absolutamente falso.
Y, ojo, que no es lo mismo exponer unas fotos de un cojunto aleatorio de gentes (como ha hecho lynx) que una seleccion de determinadas personas como ha hecho sirius2b lo cual es obviamente una MANIPULACION a su antojo. Cuando éste tipo ha hecho esto es cuando he constatado que efectivamente su objetivo no es mas que atacar a los foreros españoles.
No obstante hay una cierta contradiccion en las fotos que muestra este tipo respecto a ciertas gentes de mexico, porque obviamente si tienen algun tipo de look europeo (aunque, sinceramente, practicamente todas esas chicas del equipo de voley me parecen ciertamente mestizas) es seguramente porque son mayormente descendientes de españoles, con lo cual se demuestra claramente hasta que punto llega su odio hacia los españoles.
Es muy simple. No hay mas que preguntarse :¿que esta intentando demostrar? Porque sinceramente yo no llego a entenderlo. Lo unico que explica su comportamiento es el resentimiento.
Espero que Maciamo tenga en cuenta esto.
Un saludo.
Ademas la mayoria de blancos en Mexico son descendientes de españoles, asi que no se lo que nos esta intentado decir...
Ademas la mayoria de blancos en Mexico son descendientes de españoles, asi que no se lo que nos esta intentado decir...
Esta es la frase que resume su orgullo herido :
But you know... vulgar racists like Lynx, Wilhelm, etcetera... have a lot to
explain, specially, when they say that "Hollywood" purposelly tries now
and again to present them as "swarthy dirty Mexicans"
Ese "dirty" es suyo y solo suyo, está en su imaginacion, es su resentimiento, no el nuestro. Cuando un español ha dicho que nos presentan como mexicanos él ha sentido en su interior como si alguien hubiera dicho como sucios mexicanos, lo cual es unicamente un problema suyo y solo suyo porque creo que nadie ha querido expresar nada parecido. Nadie ha dicho nada de sucios mexicanos.
Nadie ha pretendido nunca despreciar nada y asi se le ha indicado una y otra vez pero él insiste en que nuestra intencion es esa y para ello se vale de cualquier estrategia : reflotar hilos que parecen seguir la tematica pero que realmente se usa para atacar a los españoles (vease ESTE hilo y las frases finales del mensaje), mentir como un desesperado (vease este termino dirty que nadie ha mencionado) y manipular la realidad a su antojo (vease las fotos seleccionadas con tal proposito).
From Sirious' behaviour we can deduce that "not being like a spaniard" is like a insult for him... that's not so bad I actually feel honoured.
He tried so hard to convince everyone that mexicans are like spaniards and make us look like racist for just wanting to break american stereotypes, that I'm actually believing he consider us superior beings to mexicans in his mind full of complexes.
According to this and all the articles I posted about mexicans my bet again is: He suffers from inferiority complex.
Get well soon Sirious and I'm being serious.
Yes Dean, you're right about Sirious manipulating our words. None here described mexican people as "dirty mexicans" but him. None in this forum ever insulted mexican people until he came here.
This guy clearly has mental issues.
From Sirious' behaviour we can deduce that "not being like a spaniard" is like a insult for him... that's not so bad I actually feel honoured.
He tried so hard to convince everyone that mexicans are like spaniards and make us look like racist just for wanting to break american stereotypes, that I'm actually believing he consider us superior beings to mexicans in his mind full of complexes.
According to this and all the articles I posted about mexicans my bet again is: He suffers from inferiority complex.
Get well soon Sirious and I'm being serious.
No, he don't consider us superior, he thinks that we consider ourselves superior to mexicans, wich is not true. I repeat, we only are claiming our own cultural and ethnic legacy. We are not claiming any superiority to anyone.
In fact, with this ******** messages this guy is promoting the idea that we spaniards and mexicans are basically the same people and this is also not true. We are in our own right to claim our ethnic legacy.
Cambrius (The Red)
20-12-09, 01:01
No, he don't consider us superior, he thinks that we consider ourselves superior to mexicans, wich is not true. I repeat, we only are claiming our own cultural and ethnic legacy. We are not claiming any superiority to anyone.
In fact, with this ******** messages this guy is promoting the idea that we spaniards and mexicans are basically the same people and this is also not true. We are in our own right to claim our ethnic legacy.
Indeed, EVERY RIGHT!
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