Haplogroups of European kings and queens [Archive]

View Full Version : Haplogroups of European kings and queens

Maciamo

19-03-09, 16:43

Two weeks ago, I mentioned that members of the House of Oldenburg belonged to haplogroup R1b (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25231), based on Tsar Nicholas II's DNA. Here is a summary of all European kings and queens (and crown princes) whose haplogroup can be deduced from the testing of a relative.

Britain & Scandinavia

Kings & Queens of England or Great Britain

Edward IV (1442-1483) => J1c2c (mtDNA)
Richard III (1452-1485) => J1c2c (mtDNA)
James I (1566-1625) => R1b-L21 (Y-DNA)
Charles I (1600-1649) => T2 (mtDNA) ; R1b-L21 (Y-DNA)
Henrietta Maria of France (1609-1669) => H (mtDNA)
Charles II (1630-1685) => H (mtDNA) ; R1b-L21 (Y-DNA)
James II (1633-1701) => H (mtDNA) ; R1b-L21 (Y-DNA)
William III (1650-1702) => H (mtDNA)
George I (1660-1727) => T2 (mtDNA)
George III (1738-1820) => T2 (mtDNA)
Victoria (1819-1901) => H (mtDNA)
Edward VII (1841-1910) => H (mtDNA) R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Alexandra of Denmark (1844-1925) => T2 (mtDNA)
George V (1865-1936) => T2 (mtDNA) R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Edward VIII (1894-1972) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
George VI (1895-1952) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh => H (mtDNA) ; R1b (Y-DNA)
Charles, Prince of Wales => R1b (Y-DNA)
William, Prince of Wales => R1b (Y-DNA)

Kings & Queens of Scotland

James III (1451-1488) => U5b* (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Denmark

Sigrid the Haughty (968-1014) => => H (mtDNA)
Harald II (980-1018) => H (mtDNA)
Canute the Great (994-1035) => H (mtDNA)
Sweyn II Estridson (1019-1076) => H (mtDNA)
Canute V of Denmark (1129-1157) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Sophia of Minsk, Queen consort of Denmark (ca. 1140-1198) => Z1a (mtDNA)
King Canute VI of Denmark (1163–1202) => Z1a (mtDNA)
King Valdemar II of Denmark (1170–1241) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Queen Richeza of Denmark (1190-1220) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Olaf II of Denmark & Norway (1370-1387) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Elizabeth (1524-1586) => T2 (mtDNA)
Anne (1574-1619) => T2 (mtDNA)
Juliana Maria of Braunschweig-Wolfenbüttel (1729-1796) => H9 (mtDNA)
Margrethe II (1940-) => H (mtDNA)

All the Kings of Denmark since Christian I (reigned from 1448) belonged to haplogroup R1b (Y-DNA)

Christian I (1426-1481)
John (1455-1513)
Christian II (1481-1559)
Frederick I
Christian III => T2 (mtDNA)
Frederick II
Christian IV => T2 (mtDNA)
Frederick III
Christian V
Frederick IV
Christian VI
Frederick V
Christian VII
Frederick VI
Christian VIII
Frederick VII
Christian IX (1818-1906)
Frederick VIII (1843-1912) => T2 (mtDNA)
Christian X (1870-1947)
Frederick IX (1899-1972)

Kings of Norway

Rikissa Birgersdotter of Sweden, Queen of Norway (c.1237-1288) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Haakon VI of Sweden & Norway (1340-1380) => I1 (Y-DNA)

=> See Kings of Denmark from Christian I to Frederick VI.

Haakon VII (1872-1957) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Olav V (1903-1991) => T2 (mtDNA) ; R1b (Y-DNA)
Harald V (1937-) => R1b (Y-DNA)

Kings & Queens of Sweden

Olof Skötkonung (980-1022) => H (mtDNA)
Richeza of Poland, Queen of Sweden (1116-1156) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Valdemar I of Sweden (1239–1302) => I1 (Y-DNA), Z1a (mtDNA)
Magnus III of Sweden (1240-1290) => I1 (Y-DNA), Z1a (mtDNA)
Birger I of Sweden (1280-1321) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Valdemar, Duke of Finland (1280s-1318) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Magnus IV of Sweden (1316-1374) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Eric XII of Sweden (1339-1359) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Haakon VI of Sweden & Norway (1340-1380) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Christian I (1426-1481) => R1b (Y-DNA)
John (1455-1513) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Christian II (1481-1559) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Gustav II Adolf (1594-1632) => T2 (mtDNA)
Charles X Gustav (1622-1660) => T2 (mtDNA)
Christina of Sweden (1626-1689) => H (mtDNA)
Margaret of Connaught (1882-1920) => H (mtDNA)
Louise Mountbatten (1889-1965) => H (mtDNA)
Ingrid (1910-2000) => H (mtDNA)
Carl XVI Gustaf (1946-) => H (mtDNA)

Benelux, Germany & Austro-Hungary

Kings & Queens of Germany

Elisabeth of Bavaria (c. 1227-1273) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Elizabeth of Carinthia (1262-1312) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Frederick the Fair, Duke of Austria and King of Germany (1289-1330) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Joanna of Bavaria, Queen of Germany and Bohemia (c. 1362–1386) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Albert II of Germany (1397-1439) => U5b* (mtDNA)

Holy Roman Emperors & Empress

Barbara of Celje (1390-1451) => T2 (mtDNA)
Maximilian II of Habsburg (1527-1576) => H (mtDNA)
Ferdinand II of Habsburg (1578-1637) => H (mtDNA)
Leopold I of Habsburg (1640-1705) => H (mtDNA)
Maria Amalia of Austria (1701-1756) => N1b (mtDNA)
Maria Josepha of Bavaria (1739-1767) => N1b (mtDNA)
Maria Luisa of Spain (1745-1792) => N1b (mtDNA)
Leopold II of Habsburg (1747-1792) => H9 (mtDNA)
Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor (1768-1835) => N1b (mtDNA)

Margraves, Dukes & Archdukes of Austria

Leopold I, Margrave of Austria (died 994) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Henry I, Margrave of Austria (died 1018) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Adalbert, Margrave of Austria (c. 985-1055) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Ernest, Margrave of Austria (1027-1075) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Leopold II, Margrave of Austria (1050-1095) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Leopold III, Margrave of Austria (1073-1136) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Leopold IV, Margrave of Austria, aka Leopold I, Duke of Bavaria (1108-1141) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Henry II, Duke of Austria, aka Henry XI, also Duke of Bavaria (1107-1177) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Leopold V, Duke of Austria (1157-1194) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Frederick I, Duke of Austria (c. 1175-1198) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Leopold VI, Duke of Austria (1176-1230) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Frederick II, Duke of Austria (1211-1246) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Rudolf I of Habsburg, Duke of Austria and Styria, King of Bohemia, and titular King of Poland (1282-1307) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Frederick I the Fair, Duke of Austria and Styria, and King of Germany (1289-1330) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Leopold I of Habsburg, Duke of Austria and Styria (1290-1326) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Albert II of Habsburg, Duke of Austria (1298-1358) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Otto I of Habsburg, Duke of Austria (1301-1339) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Albert II, King of Germany and Archduke of Austria (1397-1439) => U5b* (mtDNA)

Emperors & Empress of Austria

Maria Theresa (1717-1780) => H9 (mtDNA)
Joseph II (1741-1790) => H9 (mtDNA)
Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor (1768-1835)) => N1b (mtDNA)
Ferdinand I (1793-1875) => H9 (mtDNA)
Charles I (1887-1922) => H (mtDNA)

Dukes/Kings & Queens of Bavaria

Louis II, Duke of Bavaria (1229-1294) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Henry XIII, Duke of Bavaria (1235-1290) => U5b* (mtDNA)
William II, Duke of Bavaria, Count of Holland, Zeeland and Hainaut (1365–1417) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Albert II (1369-1397) => U5b* (mtDNA)
John III, Duke of Bavaria-Straubing, Count of Holland and Hainaut (1374/76-1425) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Louis IX, Duke of Bavaria-Landshut (1417-1479) => U5b* (mtDNA)

Dukes/Kings & Queens of Bohemia

Boleslaus II the Pious (920-999) => H (mtDNA)
Henry VI of Carinthia (c. 1270–1335) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Rudolf I of Habsburg (1282-1307) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Joanna of Bavaria (c. 1362–1386) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Albert II of Germany (1397-1439) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Elisabeth of Bohemia (1409–1442) => T2 (mtDNA)
Vladislas II of Bohemia and Hungary (1456-1516) => T2 (mtDNA)
Anne of Bohemia and Hungary (1503-1546) => H (mtDNA)
Elizabeth Stuart (1596-1662) => T2 (mtDNA)
Ferdinand IV of Bohemia and Hungary (1633-1654) => H (mtDNA)
Maria Amalia of Austria (1701-1756) => N1b (mtDNA)
Maria Luisa of Spain (1745-1792) => N1b (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Prussia

Frederick William I of Prussia (1688-1740) => T2 (mtDNA)
Elisabeth Christine of Brunswick-Bevern (1715-1797) => H9 (mtDNA)
Frederick William II (1744-1797) => H9 (mtDNA)

Emperors & Empress of Germany

Victoria of Prussia (1840-1901) => H (mtDNA)
Wilhelm II (1859-1941) => H (mtDNA)

Kings of Saxony

Frederick Augustus II (1797-1854) => H9 (mtDNA)
John I (1801-1873) => H9 (mtDNA)

Stadtholder of Holland and Zeeland

Maurice of Nassau, Prince of Orange (1567-1625) => T2 (mtDNA)

Kings of the Netherlands & Grand Duke of Luxembourg

William I (1772-1843) => H9 (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of the Belgians

Leopold I (1790-1865) => H (mtDNA) R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Marie-Louise of France (1812-1850) => H9 (mtDNA)
Leopold II (1835-1909) => H9 (mtDNA) R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Albert I (1875-1934) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Leopold III (1901-1983) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Baldwin I (1930-1993) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Albert II (b. 1934) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)

Italy, France, Spain & Portugal

Kings & Queens of France

All kings of France supposedly belonged to haplogroup G2a3 (Y-DNA).

Ingeborg of Denmark, Queen of France (1175-1236) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Francis I (1494-1547) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Henry IV (1553-1610) => G2a3 (Y-DNA) U5b* (mtDNA)
Marie de' Medici (1575-1642) => H (mtDNA)
Louis XIII (1601-1643) => G2a3 (Y-DNA) H (mtDNA)
Maria Theresa of Spain (1638-1683) => H (mtDNA)
Louis, Dauphin of France (1661–1711) => G2a3 (Y-DNA) H (mtDNA)
Louis XV (1710-1774) => G2a3 (Y-DNA) H (mtDNA)
Louis XVI (1754-1793) => G2a3 (Y-DNA) N1b (mtDNA)
Marie-Antoinette (1755-1793) => H9 (mtDNA)
Louis XVII (1785-1795) => G2a3 (Y-DNA) H9 (mtDNA)
Louis XVIII of France (1755-1824) => G2a3 (Y-DNA) N1b (mtDNA)
Charles X of France (1757-1836) => G2a3 (Y-DNA) N1b (mtDNA)

Emperors & Empress of France

Napoleon I (1769-1821) => E-M34 (Y-DNA) H (mtDNA)
Marie Louise of Austria (1791-1847) => H9 (mtDNA)
Napoleon II (1811-1832) => H9 (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of the French

Maria Amalia of the Two Sicilies (1782-1866) => H9 (mtDNA)

Kings of Italy

Victor Emmanuel II (1820-1878) => H9 (mtDNA)

Grand Duke of Tuscany

Archduchess Joanna of Austria (1547–1578) => H (mtDNA)
Ferdinando II de' Medici (1610-1670) => H (mtDNA)

Dukes of Parma

All dukes of the House of Bourbon-Parma descended from Philip V of Spain, himself a grandson of Louis XIV of France, and therefore presumably belonging to Y-haplogroup G2a3.

King of Sardinia

Charles Emmanuel III of Sardinia (1701-1773) => H (mtDNA)
Maria Christina of the Two Sicilies (1779–1849) => H9 (mtDNA)
Maria Theresa of Tuscany (1801-1855) => H9 (mtDNA)

Kings of the Two Sicilies

All the kings of the Two Sicilies presumably belonged to Y-haplogroup G2a3 as members of the House of Bourbon.

Kings & Queens of Spain

Philip I of Castile, King of Castile and ruler of the Burgundian Netherlands => U5b* (mtDNA)
Margaret of Austria (1584–1611) => H (mtDNA)
Philip IV (1605-1665) => H (mtDNA)
Elisabeth of France (1602–1644) => H (mtDNA)
Mariana of Austria (1634-1696) => H (mtDNA)
Charles II (1661-1700) => H (mtDNA)
Marie Louise of Orléans (1662-1689) => H (mtDNA)
Maria Luisa of Savoy (1688-1714) => H (mtDNA)
Ferdinand VI (1713-1759) => H (mtDNA)
Maria Amalia of Saxony (1724-1760) => N1b (mtDNA)
Charles IV of Spain (1748-1819) => N1b (mtDNA)
Maria Josepha of Saxony (1803-1829) => H9 (mtDNA)
Isabella II (1830-1904) => H (mtDNA)
Alfonso XII (1857-1885) => H (mtDNA)
Victoria Eugenie of Battenberg (1887-1969) => H (mtDNA)
Sofia (1938-) => H (mtDNA)
Felipe, Prince of Asturias (1968-) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Portugal

Maria II (1819-1853) => H (mtDNA)
Pedro V (1837-1861) => H (mtDNA) R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Luís I (1838-1889) => H (mtDNA) R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Carlos I (1863-1908) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Manuel II (1889-1932) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)

Emperors & Empress of Brazil

Maria Leopoldina of Austria (1797-1826) => H9 (mtDNA)

Emperors & Empress of Mexico

Charlotte of Belgium (1840-1927) => H9 (mtDNA)

Eastern Europe

Dukes/Kings & Queens of Poland

Boleslaw I Chrobry (967-1025) => H (mtDNA)
Elisabeth of Austria (1436-1505) => T2 (mtDNA)
John I Albert (1459-1501) => T2 (mtDNA)
Alexander Jagiellon (1461-1506) => T2 (mtDNA)
Sigismund I of Poland (1467-1548) => T2 (mtDNA)
Catherine of Austria (1533-1572) => H (mtDNA)
Anna of Austria (1573-1598) => H (mtDNA)
Wladyslaw IV Vasa (1595-1648) => H (mtDNA)
Constance of Austria (1588-1631) => H (mtDNA)
John II Casimir Vasa (1609-1672) => H (mtDNA)
Marie Louise Gonzaga (1611-1667) => N1b (mtDNA)
Eleonora Maria Josefa of Austria (1653-1697) => H (mtDNA)
Marie Thérèse de Bourbon (1666-1732) => N1b (mtDNA)

Tsars & Empress of Russia

Peter II (1715-1730) => H9 (mtDNA)

Romanov dynasty since Paul I => R1b (Y-DNA) :

Paul I (1754-1801)
Alexander I (1777-1825)
Constantine I (1779-1831)
Nicholas I (1796-1855)
Alexander II (1818-1881)
Alexander III (1845-1894)
Nicholas II (1868-1918) => T2 (mtDNA)

Maria Feodorovna (1847-1928) => H (mtDNA)
Alexandra Feodorovna (1872-1918) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Greece

George I (1845-1913) => T2 (mtDNA) ; R1b (Y-DNA)
Constantine I (1868-1923) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Sophia of Prussia (1870-1932) => H (mtDNA)
Princess Alice of Battenberg (1885-1969) => H (mtDNA)
Alexander (1893-1920) => H (mtDNA) ; R1b (Y-DNA)
George II (1890-1947) => H (mtDNA) ; R1b (Y-DNA)
Paul (1901-1964) => H (mtDNA)
Anne-Marie (1946-) => H (mtDNA)
Pavlos, Crown Prince of Greece (1967-) => H (mtDNA)

Kings of Romania

Ferdinand I (1865-1927) => H (mtDNA)
Michael (1921-) => H (mtDNA)

Tsars of Bulgaria

Ferdinand I (1861-1948) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Boris III (1894-1943) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Simeon II (b. 1937) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)

Maciamo

21-03-09, 10:40

Only 1 Y-DNA and 4 mtDNA lineages were used to compile the above list. The people tested were (with the known mitochondrial mutations) :

- King Sweyn II of Denmark (mtDNA haplogroup H)

DNA tested from the king's remains at Roskilde Cathedral. His earliest recorded matrilineal ancestor was Dubrawka of Bohemia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubrawka) (died 977).

- Tzar Nicholas II of Russia (mtDNA haplogroup T2 : 16126C, 16169Y*, 16294T, 16296T, 73G, 263G, 315.1C)
* heteroplasmy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteroplasmy) for 16169Y (common within haplogroup T).

All the members of haplogroup T2 above descend from Adelheid von Alpeck (died 1280), daughter of Witegow von Alpeck.

Their most recent common matrilineal ancestor is Elisabeth of Bohemia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_II_of_Bohemia) (1409–1442), daughter of Sigismund of Luxembourg, Holy Roman Emperor, and Barbara of Celje.

- Empress Alexandra Fyodorovna of Hesse and Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh (haplogroup H : 263G, 315.1C, 16111T, 16357C)

Both of them descend in matrilineal line from Queen Victoria. This lineage's oldest known matrilineal ancestor would be Mathilde, mother of Cecile de Provence-Arles (died in 1150).

The most recent common ancestor of the people on this page is Anne of Bohemia and Hungary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_of_Bohemia_and_Hungary) (1503-1546).

The subclade of H cannot be identified without results from the coding region. The 16111 mutation suggest that it might be H2.

- Emperess Maria Theresa of Austria (haplogroup H : 152C, 194T, 263G, 315.1C, 16519C)

Various matrilineal descendants of Maria Theresa were tested and confirmed to belong to the same haplogroup.

This lineage's oldest known matrilineal ancestor is Anna Katherina von Salm-Kyrburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salm-Kyrburg) (1614-1647).

The most recent common ancestor to all the above-mentioned is Princess Christine Louise of Oettingen-Oettingen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Christine_Louise_of_Oettingen-Oettingen), who was the maternal grandmother of Maria Theresa of Austria, Queen Elisabeth Christine of Prussia, Queen Juliane Marie of Denmark and Tsar Peter II of Russia.

This lineage is possibly H9 (mentioned as such above to differentiate it from the H lineage descending from Anne of Bohemia).

It's interesting to see that 3 out of the 4 lineages descend from a Queen/Duchess of Bohemia.

Tourbillion

22-03-09, 08:28

Wow, great work! :)

Maciamo

10-07-09, 17:46

According to the Stuart/Stewart Project (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Stewart/default.aspx?section=yresults) at FTDNA, King Charles II of Great Britain would have been R1b-L21. This is concordant with the history of the House of Stuart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Stuart), who traces its roots to Brittany (a region with a high frequency of R-L21) before settling in Scotland during the Norman period.

ylebzh

24-07-09, 22:25

Great work indeed !
Very interesting, but if you isolate the Ydna, all these families are related to each other, mainly through Victoria, as she placed her many daughters quite wisely throughout Europe.
There is also different dynasties, not always related through paternal line, and I see very few Ydna's, wondering why .....

Nicolas Peucelle

15-12-09, 23:27

"whose haplogroup can be deduced from the testing of a relative". I think that you should be a bit careful with this way of proceeding because Y chromosomes can easy be given by other men than "supposed to be fathers" especially if they just figure on old papers. I think that such an Y-DNA test would be very interesting in the case of the son of Catherine the Great of Russia. Because if the Y-chromosome of her son is not the same as the Y chromosome of her husband Tsar "Peter III", but of her good friend Sergei Saltykov, this would show that "legitimacy" is a far more "idealistic" value, also in dynasties than a reality based on real direct biological lineage.

Maciamo

16-12-09, 12:54

Nicolas Peucelle

16-12-09, 19:55

Yes, no doubts for the family lineage after Paul I. But the main question may remain a bit unsolved.. Is the Tsar Paul I a "Romanov" or is he not. I guess that later on, over the generations, thanks to all kinds of cousin marriages the biological Romanov blood line was re-entering anyhow into the official Tsar family "through the back door". It is a bit "sad" to imagine that a man like Peter The Great may have no descendants at all today? Except for illegitimate unknown children. (I admit I didn't check precisely into the details of the other official daughters he had.. but his personal Y-Chromosome lineage for sure was ending because of all his sons deaths before they had sons.).

^ lynx ^

08-02-10, 18:33

Interesting. Great work.

GIFT_OF_ISIS

10-02-10, 20:01

Nicholas II Romanov's relatedness to Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, was proven by comparing both Y-DNA...

Dear Maciamo,

Could you please point me to where it is possible to read about their comparison?

Aristander

25-10-10, 23:58

Melusine

26-10-10, 01:02

Maciamo,

Thank you so much for posting the haplogroups of the European Kings and Queens.
Very informative. I also study history as a hobby.

While my direct paternal line is G, my mother's father (French ancestry)was hg I+++ (eye) he came from La Rochelle. My mother's maternal grandfather was R1b++
(Iberian ancestry). Males cousins from both lines tested for our family.

Melusine

willy

02-11-10, 01:14

Louis XVII (1785-1795) => G2a3 (Y-DNA) H9 (mtDNA)

He is supposed to be G2a3b1 and very probably L140 +

DavidCoutts

03-11-10, 23:54

Maciamo

12-11-10, 12:00

The Y-DNA and full mtDNA sequence of Napoleon Bonaparte are being tested (http://www.investigativegenetics.com/content/1/1/7). The results for the HVR1 section of mtDNA have already been disclosed. Only one rare mutation (16184C) was found to differ from the CRS. It's not enough to determine the haplogroup with certainty, but it is probably a subclade of hg H.

AndersB

09-03-11, 20:37

Maciamo,

I believe there is an error in your first post in this thread.

You write:

Kings & Queens of Denmark

Sigrid the Haughty (968-1014) => => H5a (mtDNA)
Harald II (980-1018) => H5a (mtDNA)
Canute the Great (994-1035) => H5a (mtDNA)
Sweyn II Estridson (1019-1076) => H5a (mtDNA)

There must have been a mixup here. The haplogroup of Sweyn Estridson is not H5a but just H. The grave previously thought to belong to his mother Estrid cannot be Estrid, since the woman in that grave was of haplogroup H5a. Since Sweyn must have the same mtDNA haplogroup as his mother that woman in the grave cannot be his mother! The identity of Sweyn's grave is considered to be well established.

See the scientific article here
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16687224

The haplogroup of the persons cited should thus be changed from H5a to H.

/Anders
admin
Swedish Haplogroup Database
dna.scangen.se/?lang=en

Antigone

10-03-11, 07:07

Very interesting, but if you isolate the Ydna, all these families are related to each other, mainly through Victoria, as she placed her many daughters quite wisely throughout Europe.

They are all related mainly through the Danish royal family, even the Greek royal family was originally Danish. But Victoria did help a bit, Tsar Nicholas II, his wife Alexandra, Wilhelm II of Germany and George V of Great Britain were all first cousins.

Quite a family resemblence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tsar_Nicholas_II_%26_King_George_V.JPG

Maciamo

10-03-11, 18:22

Wilhelm

10-03-11, 18:24

Wikipedia is not reliable at all when it comes to population-genetics.

AndersB

10-03-11, 18:36

Sorry, you are right. I copied the mistake from Wikipedia !

Okey, I see! I corrected the Wikipedia article.

Best regards,
Anders

stewart

16-04-11, 20:42

Maciamo wrote: "haplogroup can be deduced from the testing of a relative"

Where can I see the test results and name of the male relative of a king of Scotland or England whose Y-DNA was tested in order to deduce the haplogroup of the House of Stewart, Maciamo?

What is the primary source of your information about the Stewart kings?

The web page at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Stuart/default.aspx states that according to ftDNA's Deep Clade tests of several dukes, the House of Stewart belongs to Y-haplogroup R1b1a2a1a1b4 (R-L 21) (previously named R1b1b2a1b5). None of these Dukes' test results are shown.

al-kochol

30-04-11, 04:17

It is unlikely that a biological father of prince Albert was Ernest of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

Ernest was noted for his antipathy to women, and it was rumored at the time that his treasurer, a Jew, had relieved the Duke of the distressing duty of engendering an heir. There was no suggestion of alternate parentage, for it was only after the birth of her two sons, at an interval of fourteen months, that Duchess Louise felt that she had discharged her duty, and no longer had to content herself with an ersatz husband, whom many gallant gentlemen gladly replaced.

http://www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/Kosher_Kings.html

If the above is true, Prince William is likely to have R1a haplotype (in case Duke Ernest's treasurer was an Ashkenazi Jew) or, alternatively, one of "semitic" haplotypes of Y-DNA (in case the treasurer was a Sephardi Jew).

Archaeogenetics

10-05-11, 05:36

It is unlikely that a biological father of prince Albert was Ernest of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

http://www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/Kosher_Kings.html

If the above is true, Prince William is likely to have R1a haplotype (in case Duke Ernest's treasurer was an Ashkenazi Jew) or, alternatively, one of "semitic" haplotypes of Y-DNA (in case the treasurer was a Sephardi Jew).

It would be nice if it were true IMHO, but no such luck.

http://www.internetstones.com/image-files/duke-and-duchess-of-windsor-with-adolph-hitler.jpg

Maybe the point of that story was originally to embarrass the Duke of Windsor.

Was Albert the only son of Ernst of Saxe-Coberg-Gotha?

Anyway, Prince Philip Mountbatten who is William's grandfather tested, and he matches the House of Oldenberg and Czar Nicholas, as above.

Archaeogenetics

10-05-11, 05:40

What is interesting though is that Prince William and Harry's and their mother Diana's mtDNA ancestor "Eliza" was a native of Mumbai, but later her descendants pretended she was "Armenian" to make their ancestry more acceptable:
http://thepeerage.com/p41284.htm#i412832

http://extras.denverpost.com/books/chap150.htm

... her great-great grandmother Eliza Kewark was a dark-skinned native of Bombay who had lived, without benefit of matrimony, with her great-great-grandfather Theodore Forbes while he worked for the East India Company. Unsavory as the taint of illegitimacy was, even at that distance in time, it was nothing compared with the stigma of what was then known as "colored blood." Had it been generally known that Ruth and her children were part-Indian, they might never have made good marriages. Eliza's true race was therefore expunged from the family tree and she reemerged as an Armenian. This fiction was maintained even when Diana married the Prince of Wales.

It would be interesting to test their mtDNA. If it turns out that they are part South Asian then it might result in some positive publicity nowadays for the British Monarchy. :laughing:

Archaeogenetics

10-05-11, 06:42

All kings of France supposedly belonged to haplogroup G2a3 (Y-DNA).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capetian_dynasty

All we know is that a few STRs from a bloody handkerchief and one two SNPs indicate that the blood on the handkerchief was from a man who was G2a3-something, possibly G2a3b1a-L140, although the haplotype is very unusual and doesn't match anyone we have now.

Dried blood from 220 years ago on some random object is not the same as actually testing the living descendants of a family.

The sources for the ancestry of Robert the Strong, Count of Paris, d. 866, the ancestor of the Capetians:
http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/rober100.htm

I keep telling Willy and the rest that there are plenty of patrilineal Capetian descendants out there, including some "Miguelist" Bragança from Portugal. Many of the Kings of Europe over the centuries were Capetians. Almost all the Americas was ruled by three Capetian monarchs from 1714-1760.

There are hundreds of Capetian descendants, and many are legitimate yet not in the line of succession.

This is EU-pedia, but no one wants to test them?

I suggest we start with a Miguelist Bragança, and a Bourbon, who share a hypothetical common ancestor in Robert II King of France b. 975 and test them for Y-111 and a full SNP test. That will not only give us some answers about the unknown origins of Robert the Strong Count of Paris, but if they in fact match it would give us a very rough idea of what two divergent haplotypes look like at 111 STRs after 1000 years.

For all of you who insist that "G2a" was the "Origin of the Frankish Nobility":
http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/rober100.htm

Much attention has been attracted by the account of Richer of Reims, writing in the 990's, who is the only early author to give a supposed name for the father of Robert. Richer states that Robert was of the knightly class and that Robert's father (literally, the paternal grandfather of king Eudes) was a German named Witichinus ["Hic patrem habuit ex equestri ordine Rotbertum; avum vero paternum, Witichinum advenam Germanem." Richer, i, 5, MGH SS 3: 570]. The name Widukind (Witichinus) is a name of Saxon origin, borne not only by the above historian, but also the name of the principal leader of the Saxons who fought against Charlemagne. Thus, in apparent support of Richer, we have the account of Aimoin of Fleury, writing just after 1000, who states that Robert was of Saxon origin ["... Rotbertus Andegavensis comes, Saxonici generis vir, ..." Aimoin, Miracula S. Benedicti, i, 1, MGH SS 9: 374]. Against a Saxon origin for Robert we have not only the early evidence mentioned above, but the specific evidence of Widukind, the historian of the Saxons, who was writing a generation before Richer and Aimoin, and who, as noted above, indicates nothing of a Saxon origin for Robert's dynasty. As was pointed out by Lot, it is also possible here that Aimoin's "Saxon" did not refer to ethnic origin, but just indicated that the geographical origin of the family was from Germany, ruled by a Saxon dynasty at the time that Aimoin was writing [Lot (1902), 432, n. 1; Werner (1997), 12].

If this family is in fact G2a3*, then they are likely to be what Ray calls "G2a3b1a6 - DYS643=9".
The two closest matches would be from Heisterbach [Abbey] near Königswinter in North-Rhine-Westphalia Germany and Hilsenheim in the Bas-Rhin Department in Alsace France. These places are very close to where we'd expect Robert's ancestors to have come from in the most accepted theory:

What early evidence that exists for the place of origin of Robert le Fort has him coming from East Francia, or more specifically the region around Mainz, Worms, and Speier, and places him in a family of noble but not royal blood.
Meingaud, count of Wormsgau and Mayenfeld, who died in 892, appears in Regino of Prüm's annals as a nepos of king Eudes, son of Robert le Fort.
A Robert, son of count Robert, donated two manses in Mettenheim in Wormsgau with appurtenances to the monastery of Lorsch in 836×7. This Robert's father was evidently count in Wormsgau.
In 876, a count Meingaud of Wormsgau (probably not the same man who died in 892, but at the very least a relative) and his nepos Eudes (Voto) donated one manse in Mettenheim with appurtenances to Lorsch. This common connection to Mettenhem suggests that Meingaud was closely related to the Robert of 836×7.
Since the appearance of a Meingaud, relative of king Eudes son of Robert le Fort on one hand, compared to Robert, apparent relative of a Meingaud and his nepos Eudes on the other hand, is unlikely to be a coincidence, and since Robert son of Robert appears in precisely the area where we would expect to find Robert le Fort, the evidence points strongly to the conclusion that they were the same man.

Maybe one Capetian descendant reading this page will volunteer to be tested?

Until someone tests some Capetians, it seems to me that this page in Eupedia has pretty much nothing to say about the DNA of the Kings and Queens of Europe. I could have guessed "R1b", "H" and "T2" in my sleep.

Archaeogenetics

10-05-11, 20:52

I guess not. Neither do the Grand Dukes of Muscovy, who don't descend from Rurik:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mozhayski/teksty/ydna.html

The interesting thing is that apparently both Rurik and Gedeminas were Finns, not Slavs or Balts. Haplogroup N1c1-L548-L549-L550. It may or may not be that the Grand Princes of Moscow descend from the Piast Dynasty of Early Poland, but they are in a "Slavic" clade of R1a1a. (which?)

We've learned a lot from this study of the Rurikids - and not just about early Medieval European (perhaps not for this forum) history either. We finally have a set of Y haplotypes with a common ancestor who lived in the 9th century. These are not in macro-haplogroup R1*, so we now can get an idea of STR mutation rates in other parts of the Y tree.

All the "Europeans" here might want to consider doing that too.

Dagne

10-05-11, 23:22

For Lithuanians and also for Polish Gediminas and his dynasty is the most real royal! We don‘t have any others I am afraid...

Well yes, he was a pagan ruler, so he couldn‘t be given a right to a Christian crown by the Pope.

But Gediminas was a very wise ruler. The ideas of his letters written in XIV century could well read as a XXI century PR action:
„... letters Lübeck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCbeck), Sund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sund), Bremen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremen), Magdeburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdeburg), Cologne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne) and other cities, explaining that the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was very tolerant to the Christians, but remained pagan and did not accept Christianity only because of brutal Teutonic Knights. Gediminas invited knights, squires (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squire), merchants, doctors, smiths, wheelwrights, cobblers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoemaking), skinners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinner_(profession)), millers, and others to come to the Grand Duchy and practice their trade and faith without any restrictions. The peasants were promised tax exemption for ten years. The merchants were also exempt from any tariffs or taxes.“
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_of_Gediminas

Maciamo

24-05-11, 20:46

Here is a new ancient DNA study (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0940960211000793) testing the Y-DNA and mtDNA of Swedish statesman Birger Jarl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birger_Jarl) (1200-1266), founder of Stockholm and regent of Sweden, and his son Eric Birgersson, Duke of Småland. Birger Jarl was also the father of Valdemar, King of Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valdemar_I_of_Sweden) and Magnus III of Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_III_of_Sweden). Both Birger Jarl and Eric Birgersson were found to belong to haplogroup I1. The mtDNA of Birger was H, while his children with Ingeborg Eriksdotter of Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingeborg_Eriksdotter_of_Sweden) were Z1a.

By extension of the lineages, we can presume the Y-DNA and mtDNA of the following people :

House of Bjälbo

Valdemar I of Sweden (1239–1302) => I1 (Y-DNA), Z1a (mtDNA)
Magnus III of Sweden (1240-1290) => I1 (Y-DNA), Z1a (mtDNA)
Birger I of Sweden (1280-1321) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Valdemar, Duke of Finland (1280s-1318) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Magnus IV of Sweden (1316-1374) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Eric XII of Sweden (1339-1359) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Haakon VI of Sweden & Norway (1340-1380) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Olaf II of Denmark & Norway (1370-1387) => I1 (Y-DNA)

Going up the matrilineal line from Ingeborg Eriksdotter

Queen Richeza of Denmark => Z1a (mtDNA)
Sophia of Minsk, Queen consort of Denmark => Z1a (mtDNA)
Richeza of Poland, Queen of Sweden => Z1a (mtDNA)
Salomea of Berg => Z1a (mtDNA)
Adelaide of Mochental => Z1a (mtDNA)

Going down the matrilineal line from Ingeborg Eriksdotter

Benedict, Duke of Finland => Z1a (mtDNA)
Rikissa Birgersdotter of Sweden, Queen of Norway => Z1a (mtDNA)
Otto the Mild, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg => Z1a (mtDNA)
Magnus the Pious, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg => Z1a (mtDNA)

Going down the matrilineal line from Sophia of Minsk

King Canute VI of Denmark (1163–1202) => Z1a (mtDNA)
King Valdemar II of Denmark (1170–1241) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Ingeborg of Denmark, Queen of France => Z1a (mtDNA)
Otto I, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg => Z1a (mtDNA)

Going down the matrilineal line from Richeza of Poland

Canute V of Denmark => Z1a (mtDNA)
Vladimir, Prince of Minsk => Z1a (mtDNA)

Going down the matrilineal line from Salomea of Berg

Bolesław IV the Curly (c. 1122-1173), Duke of Masovia, High Duke of Poland => Z1a (mtDNA)
Mieszko III the Old (c. 1125-1202), Duke of Greater Poland => Z1a (mtDNA)
Henry (1127/32-1166), Duke of Sandomierz => Z1a (mtDNA)
Casimir II the Just (1138-1194), Duke of Sandomierz from 1173, High Duke of Poland => Z1a (mtDNA)
Roman the Great, Grand Prince of Kiev => Z1a (mtDNA)
Otto II, Margrave of Brandenburg => Z1a (mtDNA)

balazo

02-06-11, 11:15

Maciamo

02-06-11, 13:32

Very interesting topic, thank you for all the information provided. As i read it through, i discovered something interesting. The last russian czar's wife http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alix_von_Hessen and i have almost similar mtDNA: 16111T, 16357C, 263G, 315.1C
Could someone help me please explain how we are related? Thank you.

The mutations you gave are only in the HVR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervariable_region) (hypervariable region) part of mtDNA, so it isn't complete enough to determine the exact deep subclade. Even two individuals who share exactly the same deep subclade may not be related to each other within genealogical times (not within 500 years), especially if it is a fairly common subclade. In this case, it is haplogroup H, the most common haplogroup in Europe, so it doesn't mean anything to share the same haplogroup.

GIFT_OF_ISIS

25-09-11, 09:27

doubts about Windsor's R1b

It is unlikely that a biological father of prince Albert was Ernest of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

If the above is true, Prince William is likely to have R1a haplotype (in case Duke Ernest's treasurer was an Ashkenazi Jew) or, alternatively, one of "semitic" haplotypes of Y-DNA (in case the treasurer was a Sephardi Jew).

Dear al-kochol,

Please check the facts.

The Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Windsors or their relatives have never been tested. It is Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, and his progeny, who are predicted to be R1b.

The Ashkenazi Jews belong to Middle Eastern haplogroups. Only the Ashkenazi Levites are 50% R1a. Levites make only 4% of Ashkenazi Jews.

GIFT_OF_ISIS

25-09-11, 09:32

Prince Philip Mountbatten who is William's grandfather tested, and he matches the House of Oldenberg and Czar Nicholas

Dear Ted,

Can you please point me to the source about Prince Philip's Y-DNA testing? I have desperately googled for it, but failed to find anything. I asked Maciamo for it, but didn't get any answer.

GIFT_OF_ISIS

25-09-11, 13:13

the Grand Dukes of Muscovy, who don't descend from Rurik:

freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mozhayski/teksty/ydna.html

they are in a "Slavic" clade of R1a1a. (which?)

Ted,

Those people that turned out R1a1a1g just suspect their descent from Dmitri Donskoy of Moscow based on family LEGEND, with NO documents, and strongly REJECTED by all major Nobility Assemblies.

These results say nothing about the Grand Princes of Moscow.

GIFT_OF_ISIS

25-09-11, 13:41

It is a bit "sad" to imagine that a man like Peter The Great may have no descendants at all today? Except for illegitimate unknown children. (I admit I didn't check precisely into the details of the other official daughters he had.. but his personal Y-Chromosome lineage for sure was ending because of all his sons deaths before they had sons.).

One of his sons (who was sentenced to death by him) actually had a son Peter II, and a daughter, who died teenagers.

LeBrok

25-09-11, 18:10

Thanks for sharing your knowledge Gift of Isis. Welcome to Eupedia. :)

Knovas

25-09-11, 19:12

Very curious the Z1a MtDNA. ¿How common it really is between Swedish people and other Scandinavians?

foryouandme

31-10-11, 16:39

I hope you don't mind, Maciamo, but I thought I'll add some more royalty of interest to that excellent list you've made.

Kings & Queens of England or Great Britain

Anne of Denmark (1574-1619) => T2 (mtDNA)
Mary of Teck (1867-1953) => H (mtDNA)
Edward VIII (1894-1972) => H (mtDNA)
George VI (1895-1952) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Denmark

Sophie of Pomerania (1498–1568) => T2 (mtDNA)
Sophie of Mecklenburg-Güstrow (1557-1631) => T2 (mtDNA)
Caroline Matilda of Great Britain (1751-1775) => T2 (mtDNA)
Frederick VI (1768–1839) => T2 (mtDNA)
Christian VIII (1786–1848) => T2 (mtDNA)
Louise of Hesse-Kassel (1817-1898) => T2 (mtDNA)
Louise of Sweden (1851–1926) => H (mtDNA)
Christian X (1870-1947) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Norway

Maud of Wales (1869-1938) => T2 (mtDNA)
Haakon VII (1872-1957) => H (mtDNA)
Märtha of Sweden (1901-1954) => H (mtDNA)
Harald V (1937-) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Sweden

Richeza of Denmark (1190–1220) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Christina of Holstein-Gottorp (1573-1625) => T2 (mtDNA)
Maria Eleonora of Brandenburg (1599-1655) => H (mtDNA)
Hedwig Eleonora of Holstein-Gottorp (1636-1715) => H (mtDNA)
Louise of the Netherlands (1828-1871) => H (mtDNA)
Sophia of Nassau (1836-1913) => H (mtDNA)
Gustav V (1858-1950) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Prussia

Sophia Charlotte of Hanover (1668-1705) => T2 (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of the Netherlands

Emma of Waldeck and Pyrmont (1858-1934) => H (mtDNA)
Wilhelmina (1880-1962) => H (mtDNA)
Juliana (1909-2004) => H (mtDNA)
Beatrix (1938-) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of the Belgians

Astrid of Sweden (1905-1935) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of France

Anne of Austria (1601-1666) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Sardinia

Anne-Marie of Orléans (1669-1728) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Portugal

Maria II (1819-1853) => H9 (mtDNA)
Pedro V (1837-1861) => H9 (mtDNA)

Emperors & Empress of Brazil

Pedro II (1825-1891) => H9 (mtDNA)

Tsars & Empress of Russia

Catherine the Great (1729-1796) => H (mtDNA)
Paul I (1754-1801) => H (mtDNA)
Alexandra Feodorovna (Charlotte of Prussia) (1798-1860) => H (mtDNA)
Maria Feodorovna (Dagmar of Denmark) (1847-1928) => T2 (mtDNA)

Kings of Romania

Ferdinand I (1865-1927) => H9 (mtDNA)
Anne of Bourbon-Parma (1923-) => H9 (mtDNA)

BradChellew

11-11-11, 07:10

zanipolo

11-11-11, 11:19

I find it interesting the the American Thomas jefferson is G2a .......We did he come from to go to USA

Knovas

11-11-11, 14:39

¿MtDna G2a? ¿Really?

I tell this because he was paternal T...

zanipolo

11-11-11, 20:35

¿MtDna G2a? ¿Really?

I tell this because he was paternal T...

Yes I was in Error , I was think of someone else, anyway he is K

the G was King Lois 16th of france

BradChellew

13-11-11, 06:22

Maciamo ..... no one replied, so I'll try to see if I can get a direct response from you please:
1. Has Prince Louis of Battenberg (i.e. Mountbatten) been tested, can you provide details on his Haplogroup or his Y-DNA?
2. What would be King George V of Gt Britain predicted Haplogroup or Y-DNA result - as he is from the Wettin line, which goes back to before 1000AD - this info would be useful to help track genealogy for a major family.
Regards,
Brad

Maciamo

13-11-11, 08:35

foryouandme

20-11-11, 00:50

Hi,
I have 2 questions for this very interesting thread:
1. I see someone said that Mountbatten had tested, can you provide details on his Haplogroup or his Y-DNA?
2. What would be King George V of Gt Britain predicted Haplogroup or Y-DNA result - as he is from the Wettin line, which goes back to before 1000AD - this info would be useful.
Regards,
Brad

Hi Brad

Mountbatten was Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh's maternal uncle. His mother, Victoria of Hesse was the eldest sister of Alexandra Feodorovna, the last empress of Russia. Their mtDNA haplogroup was H (Helena). I don't know about his and George V's Y-DNA, though.

foryouandme

20-11-11, 00:57

I thought I read somewhere that King Louis XVI of France's mtDNA haplogroup was N1b?

Blanton

14-12-11, 16:47

Blanton

14-12-11, 17:19

Albert had four brothers. George VI, Prince Henry - Duke of Gloucester, Prince George - Duke of Kent, and Prince John.

Maciamo

14-12-11, 17:55

Maciamo,

If one wished to compare their personal mtDNA, with the same Haplogroup H, is there a web site that you might know of to do this? Register and follow their page instructions, etc.

Example: mtDNA for King Michael I of Romania, his Mother - Princess Ileana of Romania, her Mother - Queen Marie of Romania (great grandmother - Queen Victoria), her Mother - Grand Duchess Marie Alexandrovna of Edinburgh?

Thank you in advance.

HBB

Comparing mtDNA sequences with these would be useless to prove any kinship for three reasons :

1) two individials can share identically the same full mtDNA sequence and still not be related on the maternal line for 2000 years.

2) none of the royalty listed above had their full mtDNA sequence tested - only the HVRI and HVRII.

3) just belonging to the same subclade doesn't mean anything since the common ancestors might have lived many thousands, if not tens of thousands of years ago.

Blanton

14-12-11, 18:34

This is what I thought as well. Secondly, an inquiry as to possible options:

1. A lock of Queen Victoria's hair?

2. Exhume the body of Princess Ileana of Romania?

Maciamo

14-12-11, 21:41

This is what I thought as well. Secondly, an inquiry as to possible options:

1. A lock of Queen Victoria's hair?

2. Exhume the body of Princess Ileana of Romania?

What exactly is your question ?

Blanton

14-12-11, 22:04

What exactly is your question ?

What would be reliability of testing the following to identify either or both of the following to obtain more recent ancestry?

1. A lock of Queen Victoria's hair?

2. Exhume the body of Princess Ileana of Romania?

HBB

foryouandme

20-03-12, 16:04

Maciamo,

If one wished to compare their personal mtDNA, with the same Haplogroup H, is there a web site that you might know of to do this? Register and follow their page instructions, etc.

Example: mtDNA for King Michael I of Romania, his Mother - Princess Ileana of Romania, her Mother - Queen Marie of Romania (great grandmother - Queen Victoria), her Mother - Grand Duchess Marie Alexandrovna of Edinburgh?

Thank you in advance.

HBB

You have confused two maternal lines. Queen Victoria was Queen Marie of Romania's paternal grandmother. However, Queen Marie and her paternal grandfather Prince Albert shared the same matrilineal line.

King Michael I of Romania, his Mother - Princess Helen of Greece and Denmark, her Mother - Princess Sophie of Prussia, her Mother - Victoria, Princess Royal, her Mother - Queen Victoria of Great Britain

Their mtDNA haplogroup was H. Their farthest known maternal line ancestress was Juana Núñez de Lara http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juana_N%C3%BA%C3%B1ez_de_Lara

Princess Ileana of Romania, her Mother - Queen Marie of Romania, her Mother - Grand Duchess Marie Alexandrovna of Russia, her Mother - Princess Marie of Hesse

Their farthest known maternal line ancestress was Euphrosyne Doukaina Kamatera http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphrosyne_Doukaina_Kamatera

Hope this all helps

Alexroma

29-06-12, 17:10

Hello!

in one book I read:

"The basis, induced to show interest to a problem of an origin of
prince Philippe, information which it is necessary to call unexpected
was. It is a question of results of research DNA of the sister of
prince Philippe - princesses of Sofia Hanover. About results which
with all evidence testify that DNA of prince Philippe and the princess
of Sofia don't coincide. Don't coincide so that give the grounds for
the statement that they occurred from different parents.
Professor William Meyplz, the head of genetic laboratory in Berkeley
(California), professor Mary Clare King, geneticist Charles Ginter and
doctor Willie Korte were the scientists concerning these researches,
the known American judicial anthropologist from Florida".

do you know mitochondrial DNA of princesses of Sofia Hanover?

excuse if a question silly and for my English

Alex

Russia, Moscow

L.D.Brousse

29-06-12, 17:32

What, no Robert de Bruce?:disappointed::angry:
I'm reminded of the joke from one of Sir Terry Prattchet's Discworld novels, "The royal family had died out because they had inbred so much the last king kept trying to breed with himself...":grin:
Robert The Bruce DNA has been studied I was in the same study My surname is Bruce anglitized from Brousse. He is also R1b I looked at the study today and no one from that line has ordered the deep clade so plain R1b is all I can tell you

L.D.Brousse

04-07-12, 20:53

Robert the Bruce's Y line Note No Deep Clade has been done so they are listed as R1b1

13
25
14
10
11
15
12
12
13
13
13
29
17
9
10
11
11
25
15
19
28
15
15
17
17
11
11
19
23
16
15
18
16
36
38
12
12

Rambler

17-07-12, 09:13

Hi Maciamo,

I thought that this might be an appropriate update to your excellent list.

This from the facebook page of Brad Michael Little.

I now have the Haplogroup test result for "Wettin Man" i.e. the relative of King George V who did a Y-DNA test to help me work out the relationship wth my Grandfather (William James Shepherd).

It is R1b1a2a1a1a U106+ U198- P89.2- P107- L6- L48- L47- L325- L257- L226- L217- L21- L1- ..... known as R1b-U106 for short!

So R1b-U106 is the Royal Haplogroup for a large number of European Royal Houses who are relatives of King George VI, King George V, King Edward VII, Prince Albert (Queen Victoria's husband) and then the whole Wettin line going back to around 950 AD.

He has a web link The-Kings-Son.com, but updates are on his FB page.

I am enjoying the discussion.

Conte di Haio

17-11-12, 17:00

My greetings Sirs !

Don't You know the real official reliable sources for " Wettin-Man " ? Me myslef am from the Wettin Dynasty (a Saxon - Zeitz illegitimate lineage from the early 18.the Century) and I have the I2a Y-chromozone Hg. It is said that the Hg I is the perhaps one of the most native to the pure European Region, and has formed in the last Glacial Maximum in the Balkans. However according to Kenneth Nordvedt the I2a is a rather young Hg, mine has according to him formed itself aprox. arround 2500 years ago. Maybe a Byzantine-Illyrian influence ?

The Y - chromozone results from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha or any other lineage would be great.

Thank's

Conte di Haio

sparkey

19-11-12, 17:55

Don't You know the real official reliable sources for " Wettin-Man " ?

The source is Brad Michael Little. See his discussion here (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?27310-King-George-V-son-my-grandfather).

Me myslef am from the Wettin Dynasty (a Saxon - Zeitz illegitimate lineage from the early 18.the Century) and I have the I2a Y-chromozone Hg.

Fascinating. You mean you're a patrilineal descendant of the Dukes of Saxe-Zeitz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxe-Zeitz)? Could you give us the names of everybody along your patriline? (You can skip living individuals for privacy's sake.) You see, I'm actually keeping a list of famous I2 carriers (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?27655-Searching-for-famous-I2-carriers), and if you can add more people to that, that would be awesome.

Actually, I wouldn't be particularly surprised if both you and "Wettin Man" were from lineages associated with the House of Wettin. I expect there to be multiple different Y lineages associated with the House of Wettin, considering that over 1000 years is a long time to go back and have no NPEs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-paternity_event)!

It is said that the Hg I is the perhaps one of the most native to the pure European Region, and has formed in the last Glacial Maximum in the Balkans. However according to Kenneth Nordvedt the I2a is a rather young Hg, mine has according to him formed itself aprox. arround 2500 years ago. Maybe a Byzantine-Illyrian influence ?

Haplogroup I is indeed ancient to Europe. We have ancient samples from the Neolithic having haplogroup I, and we presume based on STR dating that it goes back to the Paleolithic in Europe.

I2a-P37 is very old as well (about 20,000 years old), but I suppose by "2500 years ago" you're referring to your specific type of I2a-P37. Do you know your terminal SNP, or your STR values? Are you I2a-Din?

Conte di Haio

03-12-12, 02:32

Yes indeed. In direct paternal line I am descendant of Christian August of Saxe - Zeitz, Prince of Holy Roman Empire, Duke of Saxony, cardinal of the Holy See and an archbishop of Gran (Esztergom in Hungary). My subclade is indeed I2a1b1 - Din. I was tested in 2006. I have been a little bit confused by the first time, but later I understood that it is the very native Hg for the Europe, and that this Hg has been found across the Old Dolmen Tombs in France, and others. That it has survived in a very specific areas, where invaders from the East and South didn't came.

The precise familytree I would like not to publish. I just will give the main paternal line. More specifications : I live in Slovakia (part of Ex- Czechoslovakia) in the house where my ancestors had lived for 300 years , when the Wettiner Story had begun. It is one of the satelitte vilages of the Santa Croce di Gran - Keresztur - Svaty Kriz nad Hronom, or with nowadays name --- Ziar nad Hronom. It had been the main summer residence of the Esztergom (Gran) archibishops in the past. However I live in multiple places now, but I still hold the ancient house of our family there. I am last descendant of the paternal line there. Our name has been Macák, Maczak, Matsak, Macag in the times. Mainly Maczak and from the 1st Czechoslovak Republic a simple Macák.
The most simplified name descendancy should be :

Christian August of Saxe - Zeitz (*1666 - +1725)
Georgius Maczak ?
Josephus Maczak ?
Matthias Maczak *1798 - + 1846
Stephanus Maczak *1819 - +1880
Josephus Macák *1877 - + 1931
Martinus Macák *1914 - +1986 my grandfather

sparkey

03-12-12, 17:34

Our name has been Macák, Maczak, Matsak, Macag in the times. Mainly Maczak and from the 1st Czechoslovak Republic a simple Macák.
The most simplified name descendancy should be :

Christian August of Saxe - Zeitz (*1666 - +1725)
Georgius Maczak ?
Josephus Maczak ?
Matthias Maczak *1798 - + 1846
Stephanus Maczak *1819 - +1880
Josephus Macák *1877 - + 1931
Martinus Macák *1914 - +1986 my grandfather

The most curious link there, of course, is the Christian->Georgius Maczak link. Have Slovakian scholars verified this link? I can't find anything in English about it offhand. It also looks like you have rather few generations between Christian and Matthias. Christian, Georgius, and Josephus would have had sons at an average of 44 years old to get that lineage to work (not implausible, but needs additional verification, like you seem to have with the Stephanus->Josephus link, with Stephanus being about 58).

Where any of the members of the Maczak/Macák family, post-split from the Saxe-Zeitz branch, notable in their own right?

LeBrok

03-12-12, 19:17

Hi, Maczak the way you spell is clearly a Polish name. Probably in originated around Lvov area in Ukraine during Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. There is a chance that Macza evolved from more popular last name Marczak. In both connections there is no connection to nobility. Not sure how Maczak could end up connected to Duke of Saxony?

Conte di Haio

03-12-12, 19:54

In Hungary the cz means " c ". But Macak or Maczak is a very common name in Slovakia. There are many holders of this name, which is a derivation of the name Mattiaus. Maczko, Macko, Macak, Maczak, Macag, Matsak.

The whole reaserch has been made by the Official Governmental Reaserch House, of State Archives of Slovakia. The Stephanus Maczak child - it has been his 9th and last child. However the first two members --- there are no additive informations about their birth or death. The information is in matriculas but only --- the son of Georgius Maczak, the son of Josephus Maczak.

But we are 100% sure for the Sachsen - Zeitz descent. There is no doubt. I had written the above reply in that I was curious, because as I know and have resources the descendants of Wettin should have I2a P37.2 Hg. Even several of the early Saxon Nobility have this haplogroup.

In my cause I have real evidence of my Sachsen - Zeitz descent, even with the name of Christian August von Sachsen Zeitz, there are no doubt.

I am just very doubtfull about the R1b Wettiner Man. I think that it is a fraud. But unless there Hubert Herzog zu Sachsen - Coburg - Gotha or others would give their DNA profiles public, I can be only doubtfull what is the true Saxon DNA.

So thank's for Your contributions, that's all from me.

SSZ

Conte di Haio

03-12-12, 20:00

And to Maczak name, there has been a King with the name Madzak that Ibn Masudi had written with the content of Volhynian Slavs (9th Century). He had to be a " King of Kings of Eastern Slavs ". But there are doubts if this is spelled : Majak, Madzak, od Mujak. (the effect is the same --- and meaning from Croatian - a " cat " , a " smarty man " in Slavic languagues). The type of writting of my name is just Hungarian. There are many mutations. Mackassy, etc. etc. . just an add.

bradmichaellittle

24-12-12, 21:12

Hi Conte di Haio,
I assure you the data and information in The King's Son is not a fraud.
The haplogroup info posted on my webpage is a result of triangulated known living Wettin men providing their y-dna. All the info is in a 200 page book.
I found your alleged ancestor (Christian Saxe-Zeitz) and agree the Haplogroup info for Wettin Man your Saxe-Zeitz Man should be the same ..... they aren't.
Next steps?
Regards,
Brad (the-kings-son.com)

Maciamo

03-01-13, 10:21

I have added the royal members of the House of Wettin as belonging to R1b-U106.

A new paper on the mtDNA of Henry IV of France (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28285-Henry-IV-of-France-s-mtDNA-lineage-and-cousins) (haplogroup U5b*) also allowed me to identify 10 European kings and many more dukes as belonging to the same mtDNA lineage.

nordicwarrior

16-01-13, 04:58

I just read on a U.K. based family website that Jarl Birger is no longer confirmed hg I1--have any of the genetic experts heard of this development? I prefer to not list the surname on this thread, but can email/message it to those who would like further confirmation of the claim.

nordicwarrior

19-01-13, 00:50

sparkey

19-01-13, 01:49

I want to bump this one more time in the hopes that one of the more senior members has any knowledge of this Birger claim. I haven't noticed anywhere else that this line had been reclassified as a different haplogroup.

Is somebody discounting the Malmström et al. 2011 study (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/05/finding-founder-of-stockholm.html)?

nordicwarrior

19-01-13, 03:36

I think so Sparkey, I pm'ed you the site info.

Grubbe

04-02-13, 19:45

Seems Richard III of York belonged to mtDNA haplogroup J. (Sorry I can't post the link!!)

Grubbe

30-03-13, 19:29

Seems Richard III of York belonged to mtDNA haplogroup J. (Sorry I can't post the link!!)

Seems he belonged to J1c2c.

kleon

03-05-13, 20:18

Seems he belonged to J1c2c.

Are there any tests of living Plantagenets of the Beaufort line?

Grubbe

04-05-13, 15:46

Are there any tests of living Plantagenets of the Beaufort line?

It has been tested two living descendants from a sister of king Richard, that's all I know from news media.

al-kochol

05-05-13, 04:34

there has been a King with the name Madzak that Ibn Masudi had written with the content of Volhynian Slavs (9th Century).

Your Y-DNA has actually the Eastern European origin. I2a is a stamp of the so called Ostrogoths. The so called, because in fact they were not Goths at all.

Grubbe

05-05-13, 13:01

Your Y-DNA has actually the Eastern European origin. I2a is a stamp of the so called Ostrogoths. The so called, because in fact they were not Goths at all.

What were they, then? Sources, please?

james stock

05-05-13, 18:02

What were they, then? Sources, please?
It's not possible to have a source for something that is completely fabricated.

The only way we could possibly know the Y-haplogroups of ancient populations is to find ancient bones, find proof that they represent a certain population, then sequence their genome. This will eventually happen, and until it does you can assume the majority of people claiming knowledge of ancient population genetics are, above all, propagandists.

Grubbe

05-05-13, 18:36

It's not possible to have a source for something that is completely fabricated.

The only way we could possibly know the Y-haplogroups of ancient populations is to find ancient bones, find proof that they represent a certain population, then sequence their genome. This will eventually happen, and until it does you can assume the majority of people claiming knowledge of ancient population genetics are, above all, propagandists.

OK, so the Ostrogoths are still Ostrogoths, then, haplogroups aside. I wondered if there was something I had missed.