Maybe someone could spell out just what Turkey would bring to us in the EU that we either want or need?
Maybe also "TurkYusuf1" should learn a bit more about what a GDP is, what it means, and how far from being an indicator of the health of an economy it is nothing more than an indicator of economic activity. An indicator that, as we in Britain know only too well, is meaningless when it is being fueled by ever mounting external debt.
Maybe also take account of NATO now being well past its use by date as the reasons that NATO came into being are now long defunct and the only purpose that NSATO presently serves is to allow the US to have a presence where they are increasingly not wanted or needed.
In fact had it not been for NATO Blair’s dragging Britain into the US hegemony in Iraq and Afghanistan would not have triggered the involvement of other countries through the NATO treaty
Turkey secure secular democracy? Purleese! The place is heading faster and faster towards becoming the precise opposite, a thing that resulted in the recent trouble in which a number of Army officers were arrested because they were working for the retention of Secular rule.
Excellent relations with other countries? Get real. Look at the way that Turkey figuratively jumped out of its pram when reminded about the Armenian genocide. Look at the dreadful human rights record, the laws against freedom of press and other news media. In short the whole place is so absolutely un – European that the possibility of it being included in OUR home lands should be dismissed out of hand.
Europe is our HOME.
WE should decide who we do or do not invite in and just because someone comes whining about wanting to be let in should, indeed MUST not result in the door being opened top them, especially when most of the other people in the ‘house’ don’t want them, don’t need them and yes, don’t like them.
This is what Turkey would bring into EU, read and learn and don't just prejudge, these are not my words, I copied and pasted it from the internet so you won't say shit like it's only my opinion but opinions of political analysts and experts:
"Proponents of Turkey's membership argue that it is a key
regional power[30][31] with
a large economy and
the second largest military force of NATO[32][33] that will enhance the EU's position as a global geostrategic player; given Turkey's geographic location and economic, political, cultural and historic ties in regions with large natural resources that are at the immediate vicinity of the EU's geopolitical sphere of influence; such as the
East Mediterranean and
Black Sea coasts, the
Middle East, the
Caspian Sea basin and
Central Asia.
[34][35] According to the
Swedish foreign minister,
Carl Bildt, "the accession of Turkey would give the EU a decisive role for stability in the eastern part of the Mediterranean and the Black Sea, which is clearly in the strategic interest of Europe."
[36] One of Turkey's key supporters for its bid to join the EU is the
United Kingdom.
[37]Turkey has the world's
15th largest GDP-PPP[41] and
17th largest Nominal GDP.
[42] The country is a founding member of the
OECD and the
G-20 major economies."
GDP is what a country produces it's gross domestic product, yes it does not necessarily mean a country's wealth but it' still a huge factor in determining a country's economic capabilities, let's compare China and US for example, US is by far richer than China in wealth but China can outproduce US or any other nation in the world due to their population and several other factors such as industrial and infrastructural success and strength. Turkey is the same way, 75% of it's population lives in great conditions and only 25% lives in so called poverty which is not nearly as bad as what some other countries have in Middle East, Africa or even in Eastern Europe. Turkey however has excellent infrastructure and equally good industrial capacity and their economy is one of the fastest growing economies in the world.
Regarding religion this is what I got off from the internet:
"Turkey has a
secular constitution, with no official state religion.
[60] Nominally, though, 99% of the Turkish population is
Muslim[61][62] of whom over 70% belong to the
Sunni branch of Islam. A sizeable minority, about over 25% of the Muslim population, is affiliated with the
Shi'a Alevi branch.
[63] The
Christians (Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, Gregorian, Syriac, Protestant) and
Jews (Sephardic, Ashkenazi) were formerly sizable religious minorities in the country. Turkey would be the first Muslim-majority country to join the European Union, although
Albania,
Bosnia and Herzegovina and
Kosovo are also Muslim-majority, and have been recognized as potential candidate countries.
[64] Official population census polls in Turkey do not include information regarding a person's religious belief or ethnic background due to the regulations set by the Turkish constitution, which defines all citizens of the Republic of Turkey as Turkish in terms of nationality, regardless of faith or race.
[65]
There is a strong tradition of
secularism in Turkey. The state has no official religion nor promotes any, and actively monitors the area between the religions.
[66] The constitution recognizes the
freedom of religion for individuals, whereas religious communities are placed under the protection of the state; but the constitution explicitly states that they cannot become involved in the political process (by forming a religious party, for instance) or establish faith-based schools. No party can claim that it represents a form of religious belief; nevertheless, religious sensibilities are generally represented through conservative parties.
[66] Turkey prohibits by law the wearing of
religious headcover and theo-political symbolic garments for both sexes in government buildings, schools, and universities;
[67] the law was upheld by the Grand Chamber of the
European Court of Human Rights as "legitimate" in the
Leyla Şahin v. Turkey case on 10 November 2005.
[68]"
Well that may be true but take into account that NATO is also the only military alliance in the world that can stand up to hostile nations like North Korea or Iran or any other region in the world where the military power and assistance for example in natural disasters and crises or just military intervention to overthrow a fanatical leader who is a threat to world peace. Yes it's goals have changed since the collapse of the USSR and it's Eastern European and other allies but now the "War on Terror" is being fought not only by US but by UK and many other countries that are being targeted by the terrorism.Really? When did you become such an expert on Turkish politics. The country was built on a secular democratic model due to the heavy religious rule of the long lived Ottoman Empire. It kept it backward and let it fall behind Europe when it had surpassed militarily, economically, etc. in the first 400 hundred years of its rule during the dark ages of medieval Europe. I don`t agree with either the motives of any Islamic sympathizing government (I`m not saying the current government is) or the military dictatorship like control over the government. It is not a perfect democracy, look at how corrupt US or even UK politics are, there is not perfect democratic country in the world.
Here we go with more facts from the internet:
`Danish-Turkish relations:
- The relations date back 250 years and actually started in the field of trade in 18th century. On 14 October 1756, an Agreement of Friendship and Trade was signed by the Sultan Osman III and the King Frederick V. In 1758, Denmark has appointed an extraordinary representative to the Ottoman Empire.
- Today, Denmark has an embassy in Ankara and an honorary consulate in Istanbul.[6]
- Turkey has an embassy in Copenhagen.[7]
Finnish-Turkish relations:
- Turkey recognized the independence of Finland on February 21, 1918.
- Finland has an embassy in Ankara and an honorary consulate general in Istanbul and other honorary consulates in Belek, Bodrum and Izmir.[8]
- Turkey has an embassy in Helsinki.[9]
German-Turkish relations:
Based on good Turkish-German relations from the 19th century onwards, Germany promoted a Turkish immigration to Germany. However, large scale didn't occur until the 20th century. Germany suffered an acute labor shortage after
World War II and, in
1961, the
Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany) officially invited
Turkish workers to Germany to fill in this void, particularly to work in the factories that helped fuel Germany's economic miracle. The German authorities named these people
Gastarbeiter (
German for
guest workers). Most Turks in Germany trace their ancestry to Central and Eastern
Anatolia. Today, Turks are Germany's largest ethnic minority and form most of Germany's Muslim minority
Italian-Turkish relations:
Italy has an embassy in
Ankara, a general consulate in
Istanbul, a consulate
İzmir and 3 honorary consulates in * Turkey has an embassy in
Rome and a general consulate in
Milan.
[14]
Portuguese-Turkish relations:
Turkey's 161 years of political relations with Portugal date back to the
Ottoman period when Viscount de Seixal was appointed as an envoy to
Istanbul. Diplomatic relations ceased during
World War I and were re-established in the
Republican period in 1926. A resident embassy was established in 1957. Portugal has an embassy in
Ankara.
[16] Turkey has an embassy in
Lisbon. Both countries are full members of
NATO.
Swedish-Turkish relations:
Turkey-United Kingdom relations:
Both countries currently maintain relations via the British Embassy in
Ankara[23] and the Turkish Embassy in
London.
[24]
Turkey and the United Kingdom maintain strong
bilateral relations.
[25] The
President of Turkey Cevdet Sunay paid a
state visit to the United Kingdom in November 1967.
[26] The
President of Turkey Kenan Evren paid a state visit to the United Kingdom in July 1988.
[26] HM Queen
Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom paid state visits to Turkey in October 1971, and in May 2008.
[27] Britain and Turkey are both members of the
G20, and Britain supports the
accession of Turkey to the European Union.
This is an article I found online on Turkey:
`This blog mostly has discussed the BRIC nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China) as the main rising powers of the world. One often overlooked rising power is Turkey. Turkey has been an important bridge between the East and West for centuries (as the modern Turkish state and previous national and imperial incarnations). In the 21st century, Turkey has proved valuable as an interlocutor, serving as a value-add to both the West and to its more anti-West neighbors.
Most recently, Turkey, as a third party, brokered indirect talks between Syrian and Israeli officials, seeking for a peace deal. The talks have stalled, and the new Israeli government led by conservative Binyamin Netanyahu is unlikely to want to rekindle them, at least in the open. What is interesting is that Israelis and the international community seem to have nearly forgotten Turkey’s strong words for Israel over its Gaza war and Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s walk-out from the World Economic Forum’s Davos summit following an altercation with Israeli President Shimon Peres. Even when Turkey has not been host to talks, it has
served as a consultant to negotiations, as is the case for Egypt during Hamas-Israel peace efforts and Palestinian reconciliation attempts. Indeed, some have even referred to Turkey’s “
obsession” with mediation.
The Obama administration has been quick to capitalize on a positive relationship with Ankara. US Secretary of State Hillary
Clinton’s visit to Turkey this past weekend was friendly and encouraging, and even resulted in the discussion of Turkish-brokered talks between the US and Iran. Although the talks remain simply a possibility, it is apparent that both Tehran and Washington
have reached out to Turkey to be the interlocutor. Turkish Foreign Minister Ali Babacan put it most succinctly when speaking about negotiations run by Ankara:
“The term mediation is used at times. This will only be realized if a concrete request is made by both sides. We could contribute to the furthering of relations between the two nations to a positive level.” Read more
here.
If Turkey does succeed in bringing the US and Iran to the table, it will have accomplished a great deal. Nevertheless, it will still have a lot left to accomplish.`
Also visit these websites:
http://www.pwc.co.uk/eng/publications/beyond_the_brics.html
And that is the point.
http://www.turks.us/article.php?story=20070805063759112
http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=35388
`Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's August 6 visit to Ankara marked a new era for "enhanced multi-dimensional partnership," between Ankara and Moscow. Putin and Recep Tayyip Erdogan signed some twenty agreements covering energy, trade and other fields. Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi also attended part of the talks between Erdogan and Putin, considering the involvement of Italian companies in some of these projects. The most remarkable dimension of the various joint projects concerns energy cooperation, most notably Turkey's expression of support for Russia's South Stream project (Anadolu Ajansi,
www.cnnturk.com,
www.ntvmsnbc.com, August 6)In oil transportation, Russia committed to participate in the planned Samsun-Ceyhan pipeline (SCP), connecting the Turkish Black Sea city of Samsun to the Mediterranean terminal Ceyhan. Turkey has solicited Russian participation in the SCP, which will bypass the congested Turkish Straits. Moscow has proven reluctant, and has instead promoted another bypass option through Burgas-Alexandroupolis between Bulgaria and Greece. Meanwhile, Turkey took further steps to make the SCP attractive for the Russian side, by linking this project with the Turkish-Israeli-Indian energy partnership (EDM, November 25, 2008).Erdogan expressed his pleasure with the Russian decision to commit its crude. Ankara can consider this development as its greatest success in this grand bargain, given that Turkey has worked to convert Ceyhan, where the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline also terminates, into a global energy hub. However, Putin did not rule out interest in Burgas-Alexandroupolis, and instead emphasized that the two pipelines might be complementary in meeting the growing demand for export routes. This statement raises questions about how committed Russia will be to the SCP, given that Russian companies own the majority of shares in the other Burgas-Alexandroupolis option.In terms of gas cooperation, Turkey will allow Russia to conduct explorations and feasibility studies in the Turkish exclusive economic zone in the Black Sea, as part of Russian plans to construct South Stream. Since this move comes against the background of Turkey's decision to sign the rival Nabucco pipeline agreement last month, it raises many questions, as to how it will affect Nabucco, which Turkey considers a "strategic priority," as well as European energy security issues. Despite the questions surrounding its feasibility and high costs, as well as its negative implications for Nabucco, Erdogan maintained that both projects contribute to diversification efforts.
It appears that the "grand bargain" was between the SCP and Blue Stream. Ahead of the meeting, Yuri Ushakov, the Deputy Head of the Russian Government Staff said that "Turkey made concessions in South Stream and we made concessions in SCP," but added that he had doubts over the SCP's feasibility (Anadolu Ajansi, August 5). A statement from Berlusconi's office also claimed that he had helped broker a rapprochement between both countries on these two issues (Hurriyet Daily News, August 6). However, domestically, there are concerns that in this "exchange" of concessions, Turkey did not gain much. The SCP's importance was inflated, because it was developed by business interests close to the government (
www.turksam.org.tr, August 7). Another gas deal concerned Ankara's request to renew the contract under which it purchases Russian gas through the Western pipeline via the Balkans. Erdogan announced that the contract (which expires in 2011) will be renewed for 20 years. Turkey had complained about the high prices and the leave-or-pay conditions in its gas deals with Russia. Putin said it was renewed on favorable terms to Turkey, but the contract's details are unclear.
Erdogan also said that they discussed the extension of Blue Stream II to transport Russian gas to Israel, Lebanon and even Cyprus. Blue Stream, running underneath the Black Sea, is the second route carrying Russian gas to Turkey. Moscow previously raised the possibility that it could use Blue Stream II in order to transport gas to Europe, but this option was rejected, since it contradicted Nabucco and Russia sought to use Turkey only as a transportation route. Now, Ankara wants to revive it as part of a North-South corridor. Based on the leaders' statements, it appears that the existing capacity of Blue Stream might be improved and gas could be transferred to the Mediterranean through this pipeline.
However, although Erdogan praised this development as another major success, there is no guarantee that Russia will grant "re-export rights," which indicates that if Blue Stream II is implemented, Moscow will continue to view Turkish territory as a mere conduit for its gas, which raises the question: how will Turkey benefit from the agreement? Russian priorities also involve Turkey's first nuclear power plant tender, which was awarded to a Russian-Turkish consortium. As the original price was too high, the tender has long awaited cabinet approval (EDM, January 26). Meanwhile, the Russian side lowered the price, and offered a compromise. Prior to Putin's visit, it was expected that with further "bargaining," a final deal might be reached, but apparently it failed. Nevertheless, Ankara and Moscow signed protocols regarding energy cooperation, including the use of nuclear energy for peaceful purposes, early notification of accidents, exchange of information on facilities, and to continue talks on the nuclear tender.
The most controversial development is perhaps Ankara's support for South Stream. Erdogan reiterated his belief that Nabucco and South Stream are complementary, yet turned a blind eye to several Russian officials' (including Putin) statements to the contrary. It is assumed in Ankara that growing European energy demand will accommodate both projects; but this ignores the competition between both projects over the same downstream markets. Moreover, the Turkish side fails to appreciate the challenges Russia is facing in investing in its domestic gas industry, and acts on the assumption that "Russia has enormous reserves," while failing to realize that Russia is also planning to tap into the same upstream producers, namely Central Asian and Caspian gas, just as the Nabucco project envisages (
www.ntvmsnbc.com, August 6).
Putin also added that a consensus was reached on Russia building gas storage facilities in the Salt Lake. Taken together with the announced joint investments between Turkish and Russian firms, including Gazprom, it is unclear whether the Turkish government recognizes the consequences of these decisions. Russia has effectively used the practice of co-opting the gas infrastructure of transport and consumer countries, as part of its efforts to monopolize downstream markets. It is unclear how this penetration into the Turkish grid might affect Ankara's future energy policies.`
