Below is my dodecad K=12b, they change every 6 months .............it means little at this point in time. maybe after another 50000 additions , it might mean something
Admix Results (sorted):
# | Population | Percent |
1 | Atlantic_Med | 35.87 |
2 | North_European | 28.04 |
3 | Caucasus | 20.98 |
4 | Gedrosia | 7.02 |
5 | Southwest_Asian | 6.23 |
6 | Northwest_African | 1.42 |
7 | South_Asian | 0.33 |
8 | Sub_Saharan | 0.1 |
Single Population Sharing:
# | Population (source) | Distance |
1 | N_Italian (Dodecad) | 6.71 |
2 | O_Italian (Dodecad) | 9.26 |
3 | North_Italian (HGDP) | 9.88 |
4 | TSI30 (Metspalu) | 11.05 |
5 | Tuscan (HGDP) | 12.44 |
6 | C_Italian (Dodecad) | 14.46 |
7 | Romanians (Behar) | 14.96 |
8 | Baleares (1000Genomes) | 15.18 |
9 | Galicia (1000Genomes) | 15.63 |
10 | Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) | 15.66 |
11 | Bulgarian (Dodecad) | 15.66 |
12 | French (HGDP) | 16.22 |
13 | French (Dodecad) | 16.35 |
NOTE: O_Italian means ( info from dodecad), swiss, tyrol, slovenian, croatian, istrian and austrian Italians.
The BGA test via Doug is different in the sense it means more and he stated since I was 100% european and he went back 2200 years ( his max)that my line was already in the alps. In that case, was I from Italic lines, ......the greeks did not even name Italy by then. The issue of nationalizing these terms makes far greater issue than what is justified ( ie trouble)
Note: Even Ftdna -FF and 23andme has me at 100% european
The substructure in Italy clearly indicates the difference........imagine a scenario in Europe where no nations existed. Would that change your perspective of the areas of Europe?
I'm not sure that I understand. I'm 100% European at 23andme as well, and I'm half Emilian and half eastern Ligurian/northwest Tuscan. All the Tuscans I know on there show up as 100% European, and the full Ligurians, and a Roman, and someone who is half Sicilian and half southern Italian, and someone who is half Calabrian and half Neapolitan, and one full Sicilian from Palermo. These are just from the results of people with whom I share. Yes, there are some southern Italians who show 93 or 94% "European", with some minor "Middle Eastern" ancestry, which as 23andme defines it is Turkey (Anatolia) and Persia. From the results I've seen, if they show any SSA at all, they show it at levels of about .4-.8, which is about what the "Other Italians" show.
As for your k=12b results, they seem well within the range for a northern Italian; definitely Mediterranean, but not French or Iberian. All you need to do is look at the two results for northern Italians in the spreadsheet below. When you look at enough of those calculator results, you really don't even need the algorithm to tell you what the predicted first population will be. (Your North Euro is a little elevated, but not by much. The North Italian Dodecad group has an average of 24 for that component, after all. The rest of the scores are clearly in the Italian range. )
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...EY4Y3lTUVBaaFp0bC1zZlBDcTZEYlE&hl=en_US#gid=0
For a comparison, these are the results for the French: (Were more samples available, I think there would be substructure)
Atlantic/Med: 44.4
N.Europe: 36.5
Caucasus: 8.4
Gedrosia: 7.9
S.W.Asian: 2.5
N.W.African: .2
S.Asian: 0
SSA: 0
Their results always seem to be somewhat higher in Atlantic Med and North Europe. The big difference, however, is in the Caucasus numbers and the S.W.Asian numbers.
Then look at the numbers for the Spanish D population. If you see results with really high Atlantic Med, relatively low North Euro, low Caucasus, relatively high North African and trace SSA, it's someone from Iberia.
Atlantic Med: 52.5
North Euro: 22.7
Caucasus: 8
Gedrosia: 6.5
S.W.Asian: 4
N.W.African: 5.1
S.Asian: .2
SSA: .4
I'm surprised by the composition of the "Other Italian" group from Dodecad that you mentioned. I always just assumed there were southerners in that group, or perhaps people of mixed northern Italian/southern Italian ancestry. Those numbers are closer to Tuscan levels than to Northern Italian levels, and sometimes even veer into southern Italian territory.
Here are the results for all three groups from that same calculator: N.Italian/Tuscan/Other Italian
Atlantic Med: 44/37.9/33.5
North Euro: 22/18.7/21.8
Caucasus: 22.9/30.5/ 28.5
Gedrosia: 4.5/4.8/ 6.2
S.W.Asian: 5.8/7.2/ 7.8
N.W.African: .7/.5/1.1
S.Asian: 0/0/0
SSA: 0/0/.8
The academic North Italian sample has 41.2 for Atlantic Med, and 23.7 as an average for North Euro. This Other Italian group has SSA, which the Northern Italians and the Tuscans do not on this analysis; they have more NW African than the other two groups, and more S.W.Asian, and almost as much Caucasus as the Tuscans. They also have .2 East African, which the others do not. So, either there are people in the group with recent ancestry from the south, or the Tyrol and these regions are really harboring ancient more southern and south eastern signals than regular North Italians. Perhaps those ancient stories of the Etruscans fleeing to the mountains to get out of the path of the Celts have some truth to them, or perhaps those areas are harboring even more ancient Neolithic signals (Oetzi had some East African and S.W. Asian, and a lot of Caucasus ), which have been preserved due to isolation.
As to your comment about the unification of Italy, we northwesterners rather feel as if we made Italy, and we're rather fond of it.
The pictures my father had on his wall were of Mazzini and Garibaldi, not the Pope, and no foreign emperor either.
As to the greater geopolitical aspect, it's like how I feel about unilateral disarmament. It doesn't make any sense to me. If everyone else doesn't do it, you're...well, at a disadvantage let's say. And even if everyone claims they're going to do it, be suspicious, and really verify! I suppose I'm of the realpolitik school.
The inability or the unwillingness during the Middle Ages and the Renaissance of the Italian city-states to unify ultimately led to all of them suffering at the hands of northern European, French and Spanish marauders. It was utter stupidity...and cupidity as well. Even Venice was forced into a long decline.
I don't believe that people have changed, or that the world has changed. People... and nation states or ethnic groups... act in their own self-interest. I think it's as well to remember it.
Just my two cents, to steal a phrase,