Albanians (OFFTOPIC Macedonians)

[King Bardhyl]

Do you make any sence?

First you tell us no Greeks,
second you tell us it was Greek revolt was Albanian civil war,
now lat you tell us about Finlay,
what I see here?
Finley say the Greeks?
how come to believe you,
you make kolokotronis which is a Greek word an Albanian, an Arbanitan, although in his memories say other,

Lets see what else you have to say?

My friend, you entertains me with these efforts that makes. Do you want to discuss with me about the using of name Greek, and greek language during the history? No problem. But you have to understand that modern greeks and ancient greeks are two things totally different .

 

[Yetos]

Curios the greek humor movie is with subs in Portugese language??????
Come on.

yup it describes the 1820-1840 times mostly,
sory I can not find it in Albanian,

but describes all the components of what we say modern greece,
strangely they all could understand each other, but nobody the scholar who spoke ancient and very 'special'

 

[King Bardhyl]

You learned something from a conversation with me? Are you now more near the truth? I am here and i will continue to help you in this difficult road towards the truth. It is not necessary to thank me.

 

[Yetos]

My friend, you entertains me with these efforts that makes. Do you want to discuss with me about the using of name Greek, and greek language during the history? No problem. But you have to understand that modern greeks and ancient greeks are two things totally different .

Now you are about to make day again,

ok lets see finley says that Greek existed correct?
how come you say they did not? by a kidhistory joking writer?
Did anyone denied that Arvanites of Athen Theba came at 1200 after an invitation of Duchy of Athens latin Crusader ruler?
did anyone denied that Arbanites took part in Greek revolt, and were trained in Ioannina-Argyrokastron war?
did anyone denied that Bythoulkas was the joke name that Arbanites gave to Kolokotronis?
ok lets go more,
greek revolution,
HOW MANY YEARS PREPARATION? Filiki Etairia
How many Starts and tests from Orlov's revolt?????
HOW MANY REVOLTS TOGETHER? same day? and how many in Balkans and in minor Asia?
and since you will to search more,
how many Makedonians went south to support the Peloponese war after the defeat in Makedonia?
and something good for you?
why Karaiskakis used the Arbanites of Athens as messenger and Turks trusted them?

Tell me something more,
in Messologgi μεσσολογγι who was in and who out?

and Finnaly
WHY ALABANIAN HERO IS KASTRIOTI AND NOT VALLAVAN PASHA?

PS
how much time you were prepaired to say all that, which by your own posts is denied?
told you you are a small degree in propaganda, and indeed a bad one, your superiors must change you and find a better one,

 

[Yetos]

You learned something from a conversation with me? Are you now more near the truth? I am here and i will continue to help you in this difficult road towards the truth. It is not necessary to thank me.

wow
I am impressed

I have never seen someone to post and his next post deny what he said before.

I wonder what this shows?

HAVE YOU FINISHED?
OR YOU HAVE MORE POST TO DENY YOUR PREVIOUS?

PS
why you don't answer my questions?

 

[Sile]

You learned something from a conversation with me? Are you now more near the truth? I am here and i will continue to help you in this difficult road towards the truth. It is not necessary to thank me.

Are you trying to say that the albanians replaced the ancient greeks in greece and that is why there is a difference between ancient greeks and modern greeks?

 

[King Bardhyl]

Are you trying to say that the albanians replaced the ancient greeks in greece and that is why there is a difference between ancient greeks and modern greeks?

"..John of Amida also known as John of Ephesus records that in 581

"…an accursed people, called Slavonians, overran the whole of
Greece……and captured the cities, and took numerous forts, and
devastated and burnt, and reduced the people to slavery, and
made themselves masters of the whole country, and settled in
it by main force, and dwelt in it as though it had been their
own. ... And even to this day [584 AD], they still encamp and dwell
there, and live in peace in the Roman territories, free from anxiety
and fear, and lead captive and slay and burn..."

Another source, the so-called Chronicle of Monembasia, states that
in the year 587—8 the Turkic Avars (with whom the Slavs were
usually allied)

"…..captured all of Thessaly and all of Greece, Old Epirus, Attica
and Euboea. Indeed, they attacked the Peloponnese and took it by war;
and after expelling and destroying the native Hellenic peoples, they
dwelt there. Those who were able to escape their murderous hands were
scattered here and there. Thus, the citizens of Patras moved to the
district of Reggio in Calabria, the Argives to the island called Orobe,
the Corinthians to the island of Aegina.... Only the eastern part of
the Peloponnese, from Corinth to Cape Maleas, was untouched by the
Slavonians because of the rough and inaccessible nature of the
country... "

[Cyril Mango, BYZANTIUM: THE EMPIRE OF NEW ROME]

But the revival was only for a time, and, in spite of Greek struggles, at the end of the tenth century Sclavonians formed almost the entire population of Macedonia, Epirus, continental Greece and the Peloponnese…….It was during these centuries, that what remained, if indeed anything remained, of even degenerate Hellenic blood absorbed or was absorbed into that of the Slav……Indeed, the Albanians appear to have done for Greece in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries something like that which that Sclavonians had done in the sixth and seventh….They number about 200,000 souls; and within a greater part of the districts occupied by Albanians at the present day the Greeks have been as completely expelled as the Celtic race in England by the Saxon. Unlike the Greek, for him the bonds of nationality are stronger than those of religion…..to assert that a Greek Christian is a Hellene is as reasonable as to call all Roman Catholics Italians; and to claim a Slav or Albanian as a Hellene because he speaks Greek, is much the same as calling an educated Russian French, or an Irishman English, because they prefer French or English to their own less developed languages. (A Monthly Review – Greece, Spoilt Child of Europe)

 

[King Bardhyl]

Can we call the modern Greek descendants of ancient Greek?

 

[Yetos]

Can we call the modern Greek descendants of ancient Greek?

it depends,

tell me something,
do you believe A Kolla is good linguist?

 

[Yetos]

Are you trying to say that the albanians replaced the ancient greeks in greece and that is why there is a difference between ancient greeks and modern greeks?

plz don't tell about geneticals and PC* etc etc
the man is a bomber who even his posts deny what he says.
and never answers my questions.
as a trained propagandist, who just spread the lie and leave,

he believes that he gave me a lesson,

 

[King Bardhyl]

"..John of Amida also known as John of Ephesus records that in 581

"…an accursed people, called Slavonians, overran the whole of
Greece……and captured the cities, and took numerous forts, and
devastated and burnt, and reduced the people to slavery, and
made themselves masters of the whole country, and settled in
it by main force, and dwelt in it as though it had been their
own. ... And even to this day [584 AD], they still encamp and dwell
there, and live in peace in the Roman territories, free from anxiety
and fear, and lead captive and slay and burn..."

Another source, the so-called Chronicle of Monembasia, states that
in the year 587—8 the Turkic Avars (with whom the Slavs were
usually allied)

"…..captured all of Thessaly and all of Greece, Old Epirus, Attica
and Euboea. Indeed, they attacked the Peloponnese and took it by war;
and after expelling and destroying the native Hellenic peoples, they
dwelt there. Those who were able to escape their murderous hands were
scattered here and there. Thus, the citizens of Patras moved to the
district of Reggio in Calabria, the Argives to the island called Orobe,
the Corinthians to the island of Aegina.... Only the eastern part of
the Peloponnese, from Corinth to Cape Maleas, was untouched by the
Slavonians because of the rough and inaccessible nature of the
country... "

[Cyril Mango, BYZANTIUM: THE EMPIRE OF NEW ROME]

But the revival was only for a time, and, in spite of Greek struggles, at the end of the tenth century Sclavonians formed almost the entire population of Macedonia, Epirus, continental Greece and the Peloponnese…….It was during these centuries, that what remained, if indeed anything remained, of even degenerate Hellenic blood absorbed or was absorbed into that of the Slav……Indeed, the Albanians appear to have done for Greece in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries something like that which that Sclavonians had done in the sixth and seventh….They number about 200,000 souls; and within a greater part of the districts occupied by Albanians at the present day the Greeks have been as completely expelled as the Celtic race in England by the Saxon. Unlike the Greek, for him the bonds of nationality are stronger than those of religion…..to assert that a Greek Christian is a Hellene is as reasonable as to call all Roman Catholics Italians; and to claim a Slav or Albanian as a Hellene because he speaks Greek, is much the same as calling an educated Russian French, or an Irishman English, because they prefer French or English to their own less developed languages. (A Monthly Review – Greece, Spoilt Child of Europe)

Can we call the modern Greek descendants of ancient Greek?

 

[Yetos]

Can we call the modern Greek descendants of ancient Greek?

ok lets say NO

But you posted Finley before

King Bardhyl[/B];437482]Sometimes my friend you have to use some references. I will made this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Finlay is accepted by all as a serious scholar, let`s see what he had writen:

Mustfai Pasha assembled his army at Ochrida. It consisted of five thousand Mohammedan Guegs, and three thousand Catholic Miridits. These Catholics, who speak the Guegh dialect of the Albanian lan- guage, boast of their descent from the Christians who fought against the Turks under their national hero Skanderbeg, or George Castriot. But their hatred of the orthodox Greeks has long since bound them in a closer alliance with the Mussulman tribes in their neighbourhood, than with any body of Christians. On the present occasion, the Miridits formed the advanced guard of Mustai 's army. They upheld the military glory of their race, and ridiculed the vanity of the Greeks, who attempted to filch from them the glory of Skanderbeg. The Greeks made no preparations to oppose Mustai. Mavrocordatos had quitted Mesolonghi. While he re- mained there, he concentrated in his own person the three ofl&ces of President of Greece, Governor-General of the Western Provinces, and Commander-in-Chief of the Etolian army; but when he departed he left three persons to execute the duties of commander-in-chief. This absurd arrangement would doubtless have created anarchy had it not already existed, and it tended to increase the disorders that already prevailed. Almost every chief, both in Etolia and Acamania, engaged in quarrels with his neighbours. Sometimes they fought in order to decide who should march to encounter Mustai 's army, and the prize of victory was liberty to stay at home and plunder the peasantry. In most cases their proceedings were an inexplicable enigma ; and their most intelligent countrymen could only tell strangers, what indeed was very evident without their communication, that the conduct of the captains and primates was mining the people. The advance of Mustai's army was signalised by one of the most brilUant exploits of the war. The first division of the Othoman force consisted of four thousand men, Catholics and Mussulmans, under the command of Djelaleddin Bey. It encamped in the valley of Karpenisi, near an abundant fountain of pure water, which forms a brook as it flows from its basin, shaded by a fine old willow-tree. At midnight on the 21st of August 1823 the orthodox Tosks surprised the camp of the Catholic and Mussulman Guegs. Marco Botzares, at the head of three hundred and fifty Suliots, broke into the midst of their enemies and rushed forward to slay the bey. The Othoman troops, roused from sleep, fled with precipitation, leaving their arms behind. Had the Greek captains descended with the armatoli of Etolia and Acarnania from the villages in which they were idly watching the flashes of the Suliot arms, they might have annihilated the Turkish force. But Greek envy sacrificed the Albanian hero. The bey of Ochrida had pitched his tent in a mandra or walled enclosure, built to protect beehives or young lambs from badgers and foxes. Botzares reached this wall, and, not finding the entrance, raised his head to look over it, in order to discover a means of entering it with his followers. The alarm had now roused Djelaleddin^s veterans, who were familiar with nocturnal surprises. Several were on the watch when the head of Botzares rose above the wall, and showed itself marked on the grey sky ; a ball immediately pierced his brain, and the Suliots took up his body.The affair at Karpenisi is one of the examples of the secondary part which the rival dominant races of Othomans and Greeks often bore in the war of the Greek Kevolution. The Othomans who accompanied the army of Mustai were still in the plain of Thessaly.The Greeks were encamped idly on the hills. The battle was fought between the Catholic Guegs and the orthodox Tosks. The troops of Djelaleddin remained in possession of the field of battle, and buried their dead on the spot. Two English travellers who passed the place during the following summer saw a number of small wooden crosses fixed over tlie graves of the Miridits.George FinlayA History of Greece from the Roman Conquest to the Present Time https://archive.org/stream/historygreekrev00finlgoog/historygreekrev00finlgoog_djvu.txt

then who were these guys?
Serbs?, Bulgarians? Romanians? Egyptians? Prsians? Italians?

 

[King Bardhyl]

ok lets say NO

But you posted Finley before



then who were these guys?
Serbs?, Bulgarians? Romanians? Egyptians? Prsians? Italians?

[FONT=&quot]New York Times - June 2009 Nikos Dimou “.....We
used to speak Albanian and call ourselves Romans,
but then
Winckelmann, Goethe, Victor Hugo, Delacroix, they all told us,‘No, you are Hellenes, direct descendants
of Plato and
Socrates,’ and that did it. If a small, poor nation has
such a burden put on its shoulders, it will never
recover".[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[Yetos]

new york times - june 2009 nikos dimou “.....we
used to speak albanian and call ourselves romans,
but then
winckelmann, goethe, victor hugo, delacroix, they all told us,‘no, you are hellenes, direct descendants
of plato and
socrates,’ and that did it. If a small, poor nation has
such a burden put on its shoulders, it will never
recover".

is that an answer for a great historian of your height?

to this question?

Can we call the modern Greek descendants of ancient Greek?

ok lets say NO

But you posted Finley before

King Bardhyl

;437482]Sometimes my friend you have to use some references. I will made this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Finlay is accepted by all as a serious scholar, let`s see what he had writen:

Mustfai Pasha assembled his army at Ochrida. It consisted of five thousand Mohammedan Guegs, and three thousand Catholic Miridits. These Catholics, who speak the Guegh dialect of the Albanian lan- guage, boast of their descent from the Christians who fought against the Turks under their national hero Skanderbeg, or George Castriot. But their hatred of the orthodox Greeks has long since bound them in a closer alliance with the Mussulman tribes in their neighbourhood, than with any body of Christians. On the present occasion, the Miridits formed the advanced guard of Mustai 's army. They upheld the military glory of their race, and ridiculed the vanity of the Greeks, who attempted to filch from them the glory of Skanderbeg. The Greeks made no preparations to oppose Mustai. Mavrocordatos had quitted Mesolonghi. While he re- mained there, he concentrated in his own person the three ofl&ces of President of Greece, Governor-General of the Western Provinces, and Commander-in-Chief of the Etolian army; but when he departed he left three persons to execute the duties of commander-in-chief. This absurd arrangement would doubtless have created anarchy had it not already existed, and it tended to increase the disorders that already prevailed. Almost every chief, both in Etolia and Acamania, engaged in quarrels with his neighbours. Sometimes they fought in order to decide who should march to encounter Mustai 's army, and the prize of victory was liberty to stay at home and plunder the peasantry. In most cases their proceedings were an inexplicable enigma ; and their most intelligent countrymen could only tell strangers, what indeed was very evident without their communication, that the conduct of the captains and primates was mining the people. The advance of Mustai's army was signalised by one of the most brilUant exploits of the war. The first division of the Othoman force consisted of four thousand men, Catholics and Mussulmans, under the command of Djelaleddin Bey. It encamped in the valley of Karpenisi, near an abundant fountain of pure water, which forms a brook as it flows from its basin, shaded by a fine old willow-tree. At midnight on the 21st of August 1823 the orthodox Tosks surprised the camp of the Catholic and Mussulman Guegs. Marco Botzares, at the head of three hundred and fifty Suliots, broke into the midst of their enemies and rushed forward to slay the bey. The Othoman troops, roused from sleep, fled with precipitation, leaving their arms behind. Had the Greek captains descended with the armatoli of Etolia and Acarnania from the villages in which they were idly watching the flashes of the Suliot arms, they might have annihilated the Turkish force. But Greek envy sacrificed the Albanian hero. The bey of Ochrida had pitched his tent in a mandra or walled enclosure, built to protect beehives or young lambs from badgers and foxes. Botzares reached this wall, and, not finding the entrance, raised his head to look over it, in order to discover a means of entering it with his followers. The alarm had now roused Djelaleddin^s veterans, who were familiar with nocturnal surprises. Several were on the watch when the head of Botzares rose above the wall, and showed itself marked on the grey sky ; a ball immediately pierced his brain, and the Suliots took up his body.The affair at Karpenisi is one of the examples of the secondary part which the rival dominant races of Othomans and Greeks often bore in the war of the Greek Kevolution. The Othomans who accompanied the army of Mustai were still in the plain of Thessaly.The Greeks were encamped idly on the hills. The battle was fought between the Catholic Guegs and the orthodox Tosks. The troops of Djelaleddin remained in possession of the field of battle, and buried their dead on the spot. Two English travellers who passed the place during the following summer saw a number of small wooden crosses fixed over tlie graves of the Miridits.George FinlayA History of Greece from the Roman Conquest to the Present Time https://archive.org/stream/historygreekrev00finlgoog/historygreekrev00finlgoog_djvu.txt

then who were these guys?
Serbs?, Bulgarians? Romanians? Egyptians? Prsians? Italians?
[/B]



AGAIN YOU AVOID TO ANSWER WHY?

it was you posted Finley, why you do not answer?

are you telling us that I don't know how much, lets say 1 000 000 Albanians lived in South Greece, NO GREEK LIVED THERE!!!!! to speak Greek
They revolt against Ottomans, and they were so stupid that named them shelves Hellenes and !!!!!
change their language???
I wonder what else you are about to tell us.

DO YOU UNTERSTAND WHAT YOUR STATEMENT SAY AND MEAN?

 

[King Bardhyl]

is that an answer for a great historian of your height?

to this question?



ok lets say NO

But you posted Finley before



then who were these guys?
Serbs?, Bulgarians? Romanians? Egyptians? Prsians? Italians?
[/B]



AGAIN YOU AVOID TO ANSWER WHY?

it was you posted Finley, why you do not answer?

[FONT=&quot]"Hellenes do not exist in Europe anymore. The universal creations of their spirit and a few ruins remained are the proofs of once upon a time the Hellenes existed. Because there is not even a single drop of pure hellenic blood flowing through the veins of christian population of today's Greece." [/FONT][FONT=&quot](Austrian, Tirol, Historian Jakob Philip Fallmerayer, Geschichte der Halbinsel Morea I, Stuttgart-1830)[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

BTW, can you translate the video about Karaiskaqi?[/FONT]

 

[King Bardhyl]

Even the tsar of Russia and russian people and the tsar of serbia, and serbian people in some sources are called "greeks". Can we consider them greeks?

 

[King Bardhyl]

And of copurse an philhellene can help us:
Most Greeks did not share Byron’s views and would not have understood his allusions. They did not think of themselves as Greeks at all – and certainly not as Hellenes…but as Christians or Orthodox. (N. Hammond, Greece – Old and New)

 

[Yetos]

"Hellenes do not exist in Europe anymore. The universal creations of their spirit and a few ruins remained are the proofs of once upon a time the Hellenes existed. Because there is not even a single drop of pure hellenic blood flowing through the veins of christian population of today's Greece." (Austrian, Tirol, Historian Jakob Philip Fallmerayer, Geschichte der Halbinsel Morea I, Stuttgart-1830)

BTW, can you translate the video about Karaiskaqi?

YOU STILL DO NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION,
YOU SAY THIS,

The so-called Greek Revolution was a civil war betwen albanians. I am not happy to say this but this is the truth. Other, more smart
benefited from this situation. Greece and Serbia are an experiment made by the Great Powers for geopolitical reasons. But if in the case of Serbia was the Pashiallik of Belgrade, in the case of Greece, there was neither the state nor the Greek nation. This experiment continue still today with FYROM, and maybe are trying to make the same with Kosova. But with Kosova is difficult because the albanian are an distinct race, not an mix of populations. That`s the story.

SO YOU ARE TELLING US NOW THAT ALBANIANS WERE SO STUPID,
THAT HAD A CIVIL WAR NAMED GREEK REVOLT,
THEY ESTABLISH A STATE NAMED HELLAS not GREECE
AND THEY ALL CHANGE THEIR LANGUAGE TO MODERN GREEK. JUST FOR FUN? I wonder
AND NO GREEK EXISTED THERE at 1821?

CORRECT?

 

[King Bardhyl]

is that an answer for a great historian of your height?

to this question?




ok lets say NO

But you posted Finley before



then who were these guys?
Serbs?, Bulgarians? Romanians? Egyptians? Prsians? Italians?
[/B]



AGAIN YOU AVOID TO ANSWER WHY?

it was you posted Finley, why you do not answer?

are you telling us that I don't know how much, lets say 1 000 000 Albanians lived in South Greece, NO GREEK LIVED THERE!!!!! to speak Greek
They revolt against Ottomans, and they were so stupid that named them shelves Hellenes and !!!!!
change their language???
I wonder what else you are about to tell us.

DO YOU UNTERSTAND WHAT YOUR STATEMENT SAY AND MEAN?

If you want Finlay let`s continue with Finlay:
https://archive.org/stream/historygreekrev01finlgoog#page/n44/mode/2up
GREEK GOVERNMENT IN 1824.
The government which vanquished the faction of
Kolokotrones was formed by a coalition of three par-
ties : the Albanian shipowners of Hydra and Spetzas ;
the Greek primates of the Morea ; and the Romeliot
captains of armatoli. The chief authority was con-
ceded to the Albanian shipowners ; George Konduriottes
of Hydra was elected president of Greece, and Botasses
of Spetzas, vice-president. It is necessary to record
the sad truth, that two more ignorant and incapable
persons were never intrusted with the direction of a
nation's affairs. The Greeks are the most prejudiced
of all Europeans when there is a question of the purity
of the Hellenic race, and no people regards education
with more favour; yet with all this nationality and
pedantry they intrusted their public affairs, in a period
of great difficulty, to two men who could not address
them in the Greek language, and whose intellectual
deficiencies prevented them from expressing their
thoughts with clearness even in the corrupt Tosk
dialect which they habitually used. The descendants
of Pericles and Demosthenes submitted tamely to
these aliens in civilisation and race, because they were
orthodox and wealthy.

 

[King Bardhyl]

to two men who could not address them in the Greek language.....?
And who are the Greeks? And where are?