Crime Yet another act of terror in France

[Petros Houhoulis]

Of course different time different development.
The core thing is that in (Western) Europe that we have created, although never perfect, democracy, with the core thing:: How we can stand different views, religions, ideologies, without violence and without creating a tendency to wash out differences and dispute, or to create a false homogenity. Populism creates the idea of one folk, homogenity, a strong "we".

The actual question is what makes others still fighting. There are already some very complex answers, which tend to have a common characteristic though.

These jihadist are no direct threat to our western society, to marginal. The indirect threat is more villain. Because this can mean a up heal of right wing populism. In the end is this the real threat to political liberalism

What you fail to realize is that a large number of these terrorists tend to be career petty criminals who implode when they realize they shall never achieve anything in life. The current increase in terrorist attacks in Europe correlates directly with economic instability and decline. If terrorism accelerates economic instability and decline, the feedback could have significant consequences. Furthermore, those populists are not against other Europeans - at least for the moment - and their impact could be limited, still depending on economic performance. The weirdest paradox is that liberalism per se is not threatened so much by the right wing, but the left wing. Political correctness is a leftist trait, political irreverence is gradually becoming a right wing staple.

Of course different time different development.
The core thing is that in (Western) Europe that we have created, although never perfect, democracy, with as core thing:: How we can stand different views, religions, ideologies, without violence and without creating a tendency to wash out differences and dispute, or to create a false homogenity. That's political liberalism as set after 1848.

Populism on the contrary creates the idea of one folk, homogenity, a strong "we". Closed minds. Can't stand differences.

Those who believe in the idea of one folk, homogenity, a strong "we", closed minds, can't stand differences, tend to be recent imports to Europe, and not Europeans with deep roots in the continent. Even the older Muslim populations in Britain, Poland, Greece and elsewhere tend to be inclusive, or at least more liberal than recent arrivals. The recent European populists still align themselves against the imported intolerance rather than clashing with other liberals. This could of course get out of hand pretty quickly.

These jihadist are no direct threat to our western society, to marginal. The indirect threat is more villain. Because this can mean a up heal of right wing populism. In the end is this t

The real

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[Northener]

"Furthermore, those populists are not against other Europeans - at least for the moment - and their impact could be limited, still depending on economic performance."

I must disappoint you these populist are strongly against other Europeans. The populist of Northwestern Europe are strongly opposed to Southern Europeans and label them as corrupt, lazy, not worth a single dime....and I could go on....

These things are not economic motivated but more 'cultural'. So economic performance doesn't mean that populism will be in decline

"Those who believe in the idea of one folk, homogenity, a strong "we", closed minds, can't stand differences, tend to be recent imports to Europe, and not Europeans with deep roots in the continent. Even the older Muslim populations in Britain, Poland, Greece and elsewhere tend to be inclusive, or at least more liberal than recent arrivals. The recent European populists still align themselves against the imported intolerance rather than clashing with other liberals. This could of course get out of hand pretty quickly."

Not right either. Right wing populism has a strong support in working class and lower middle class Europeans.
And yes in immigrant circles there a parts which aren't quite liberal. That could be a threat when this comes close to turning against society and so on. Major problem but this can be solved. It's like the Indonesions in the Netherlands. After WW2 they settled in the Netherlands and in the seventies the second generation became partly very violent, now we have overcome this problem....

And yes I'am worried about the populist from Poland to Greece, in large parts of Europe the force of political liberalism is never been strong, so the force of populism and worse is a real threat in the future. That's the real threat within our society, Jihadism can be a threat, caused by Acts of terrorism, but in the end they are to marginal and self destructive to be a appealing force and threat for society as a whole.




















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[bicicleur 2]

Of course different time different development.
The core thing is that in (Western) Europe that we have created, although never perfect, democracy, with as core thing:: How we can stand different views, religions, ideologies, without violence and without creating a tendency to wash out differences and dispute, or to create a false homogenity. That's political liberalism as set after 1848.

Populism on the contrary creates the idea of one folk, homogenity, a strong "we". Closed minds. Can't stand differences.

These jihadist are no direct threat to our western society, to marginal. The indirect threat is more villain. Because this can mean a up heal of right wing populism. In the end is this the real threat to political liberalism.







The real





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populism was a marginal phenomenon 20 years ago
it grows because EU institutions prove incompetent to deal with crisises and challenges which threaten Europe and the world, be it financial stability or immigration or terrorism or whatever
it is not a small nucleus of marginal racists any more, it is a large number of people who are not happy with the way Europe is mismanaged (or not managed)
and if you keep on ingnoring them, this movement will grow

 

[Northener]

populism was a marginal phenomenon 20 years ago
it grows because EU institutions prove incompetent to deal with crisises and challenges which threaten Europe and the world, be it financial stability or immigration or terrorism or whatever
it is not a small nucleus of marginal racists any more, it is a large number of people who are not happy with the way Europe is mismanaged (or not managed)
and if you keep on ingnoring them, this movement will grow

I take them very seriously. But I'am strongly against their xenophobic and their anti political liberalism attitude. They present no real solutions. In the end they take no responsibility. UKIP figure went away after the Brexit. Wilders supported moderate right wing government. But not for long. I take them serious as a sign, but otherwise.....their solutions are the type of turn the backs against each other.


















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[bicicleur 2]

I take them very seriously. But I'am strongly against their xenophobic and their anti political liberalism attitude. They present no real solutions. In the end they take no responsibility. UKIP figure went away after the Brexit. Wilders supported moderate right wing government. But not for long. I take them serious as a sign, but otherwise.....their solutions are the type of turn the backs against each other.


















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no you don't, otherwise you wouldn't label them as xenophobic and anti political liberalism
they will not present solutions, they are only unified by feeling submitted to a burocratic European political establishment
why did Brexit happen? do you realy believe 51 % of British are xenophobic?
it is because of frustration and the feeling of being powerless against a political correct burocracy in an ivory tower
if this burocracy is unable to communicate properly with these people, this whole burocracy should be dismantled

and on the other side, this whole European burocracy does not present real solutions either, it looks like they put the faith of Europe into the hands of people like Erdogan
Europe has created laws and principles it cannot defend itself, it relies on crooks who don't obey any law to do so

 

[Northener]

If I didn't take them serious why should I see them as a major threat? Simple as that. That's doesn't mean that I have to agree with their ideology! Only when I'am the copy cat I would take them seriously? Is that what you are meaning or....?


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[Maleth]

UKIP figure went away after the Brexit.

12 years getting paid by the EU institution to insult it non stop, then he disappears because he wants a life and offers no plan for the transition. They leave it to a silent but pro EU person Theresa May. The EU now will pay him also a pension.


















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[Yetos]

XENOPHOBIC-FASIST or NATION TRAITOR-GLOBALIST-Immigrant lover

these words the last years are being used,

I simply want to ask you, and no need to reply,
who is most xenophobic or the oposite less xenophobic.

the 1rst is the one at Normandy

the 2nd is the known one from Norway

the 3rd is mentioned in this thread

the 4rth was at his biggest popularity last month

the 5th is known from PARIS

NOW CAN YOU TELL ME WHICH IS MOST XENOPHOBIC OR MORE FASIST OR MOST DEMOCRATIC etc


Besides we know about him that he was victim of bulying, But did you heard who were the bullies?
and what kind of bulying he had?

nobody says who the bullies were? and what kind of bullying.


AT LEAST
DO YOU SEE ANY DIFFERENCE AMONG THESE 2

and

 

[Northener]

12 years getting paid by the EU institution to insult it non stop, then he disappears because he wants a life and offers no plan for the transition. They leave it to a silent but pro EU person Theresa May. The EU now will pay him also a pension.

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[/QUOTE]

Sharp Maleth! I will beth he will refuse the EU pension


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[Garrick]

^ Indeed, it seems that the problem is not religion, but ethnicity. After all, only Muslim Arabs (rather than all Muslims) do this.

So the problem is specifically with Arabs. But people don't say this openly because they are afraid of being accused of racism.

No.

Who who knows Islam knows that in Islam there is no national, for example Christian Arab is infidel as every non Muslim.

For Muslims only Muslim community exists (man or woman any nation can be Muslim)

and non Muslims, who can be
People of the Book (Christians, Jews and Sabians) and they have right to live in Islamic state under the rules of Sharia law and

others (atheists, polytheists etc.) who have no right and this destiny is worse.

...
It is not problem that Muslims are respected and their religion, they are humans as members of all other religions and atheists and agnostics.

It is important to open a genuine dialogue where potential problematic issues could be solved.

Pope Benedict wished such dialogue but he did not find interlocutors on other side.

The main reason is that nobody in Ulema has no authority to change the words given by God; Quran and Hadith are primary sources for Muslims and they guide their life and they are unchangeable.

What we can understand is that civilizations are different and it is not possible to make uniform people.

...
This thread is instructive, instead of empty words people will pay more attention to their safety, we can see change in that direction:

France, Cannes
[h=1]Beach Bag Ban In Cannes Amid Terror Concerns

http://news.sky.com/story/beach-bag-ban-in-cannes-amid-terror-concerns-10515381[/h]
Germany, in Wacken

German festival bans backpacks and bags due to recent terror attacks

http://www.factmag.com/2016/07/28/g...kpacks-and-bags-due-to-recent-terror-attacks/

 

[Maciamo]

Viktor Orban Hungarian PM's speech after the Nice terror attack

Thanks for posting this. Victor Orban's speech reflects exactly my thoughts on Muslim immigration to Europe and the urgent necessity to act at the EU level. Every sentence of his speech was perfectly worded. His arguments are rational, pragmatic and no-nonsensical. I encourage all of you to watch this video if you haven't done it yet.

 

[Dinarid]

I love the idea that this is a Middle Eastern problem only. In Sarajevo in 2008 the main LGBT group Organization Q had to cancel an event because of Muslims harassing them on the street. Bosnian Muslims regularly fly Turkish flags aside the traditional Bosnian coat of arms of King Tvrtko I (apparently they're too stupid to realize that he was quite clearly a Christian). In July 2015, during a football match against Israel the fans (who I do realize are not known for good behavior in any country) flew Palestinian flags and yelled "Free Palestine!". "Our" country is becoming increasingly Islamized- in the capital there are plenty of women wearing black tents already. The main Bosniak party espouses "Islamic democracy" is one of its values, which we can clearly see is an oxymoron.

 

[Northener]

His arguments are rational, pragmatic and no-nonsensical.

.....is it rational, pragmatic ad no nonsense.... To call migrants poison?



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[Maciamo]

it is what happened in Greece .. hence more and more people arrived untill the flow became realy uncontrollable .. fences were needed in the Balkans to stop people that Greece let through without any controll .. yet the fence builders were labelled 'racist'

I can't stand it when people are applying the 'racist' label on anti-Islamists and anti-terrorists. It's shocking how the trauma and guilt of WWII is still causing many Europeans, and particularly politicians, to adopt overly tolerant attitudes toward any kind of immigrant, even if they include the scum of the world, just so that they aren't labeled racists and associated with the Nazis. I think that Muslim immigrants understood this quite well and have made it their weapon of choice to bypass immigration regulations that would otherwise work against them.

The worst is when Europeans themselves have become so convinced that all humans are equal and good and deserve the same chance as themselves, that they see it as racist not to welcome the whole Third World with open arms and support them all of the tax payers' money. This vocal minority of Europeans, who are usually convinced far-left socialists and/or deeply Christian (ironically), will automatically label of racist anyone who is against unrestrained immigration. In other words, this ultra-leftist minority is distorting the anti-Semitic guilt of WWII to discourage and thwart any well meaning, but pragmatic and rational pacifist who is trying to protect the Western values by rejecting immigrants who do not conform to these very Western values. In my eyes those ultra-leftists are the best natural allies of Islamists and terrorists.
From now on, whenever you hear the word 'racist', you all should think carefully about what are the motivations of the person who uttered that accusation, and consider that they are using this emotionally charged term only to welcome Islamists to Europe, and with them a number of terrorists. Remember, those very people who use and abuse of the 'racist' label may be the ones who are responsible for letting terrorists in Europe in the first place. It's not exaggerated to say that such people may be indirectly complicit of terrorism. Anyone who wishes for fundamentalist Islamists to remain in Europe is complicit of terrorism.

 

[Garrick]

Thanks for posting this. Victor Orban's speech reflects exactly my thoughts on Muslim immigration to Europe and the urgent necessity to act at the EU level. Every sentence of his speech was perfectly worded. His arguments are rational, pragmatic and no-nonsensical. I encourage all of you to watch this video if you haven't done it yet.

Yes, EU level is necessary, individual countries cannot solve it. We see problems in Greece, Malta, Italy, Macedonia, Serbia, Hungary, Austria, Bulgaria, Romania etc.

Good step in right direction are EU border forces, we can read:

EU parliament backs new border force

http://www.ekathimerini.com/210207/article/ekathimerini/news/eu-parliament-backs-new-border-force

 

[Dinarid]

I can't stand it when people are applying the 'racist' label on anti-Islamists and anti-terrorists. It's shocking how the trauma and guilt of WWII is still causing many Europeans, and particularly politicians, to adopt overly tolerant attitudes toward any kind of immigrant, even if they include the scum of the world, just so that they aren't labeled racists and associated with the Nazis. I think that Muslim immigrants understood this quite well and have made it their weapon of choice to bypass immigration regulations that would otherwise work against them.

The worst is when Europeans themselves have become so convinced that all humans are equal and good and deserve the same chance as themselves, that they see it as racist not to welcome the whole Third World with open arms and support them all of the tax payers' money. This vocal minority of Europeans, who are usually convinced far-left socialists and/or deeply Christian (ironically), will automatically label of racist anyone who is against unrestrained immigration. In other words, this ultra-leftist minority is distorting the anti-Semitic guilt of WWII to discourage and thwart any well meaning, but pragmatic and rational pacifist who is trying to protect the Western values by rejecting immigrants who do not conform to these very Western values. In my eyes those ultra-leftists are the best natural allies of Islamists and terrorists.
From now on, whenever you hear the word 'racist', you all should think carefully about what are the motivations of the person who uttered that accusation, and consider that they are using this emotionally charged term only to welcome Islamists to Europe, and with them a number of terrorists. Remember, those very people who use and abuse of the 'racist' label may be the ones who are responsible for letting terrorists in Europe in the first place. It's not exaggerated to say that such people may be indirectly complicit of terrorism. Anyone who wishes for fundamentalist Islamists to remain in Europe is complicit of terrorism.

Every time there's a terrorist attack and a new thread is started, the accusations of "Islamophobia" due to focusing "disproportionately" on Muslims flow… every time…

 

[Maciamo]

.....is it rational, pragmatic ad no nonsense.... To call migrants poison?

If they have no hope of integrating, are dirt poor, completely uneducated, hold strong Muslim values that are completely at odds with Western values, and support directly, indirectly or even morally any fundamentalist and/or terrorist organisation, then yes, it is completely rational and fair to call them poison. That unfortunately applies to a considerable portion of illegal immigrants from countries like Afghanistan, Syria or Somalia. The problem with mass influx of illegal immigrants is that they cannot be screened, and no background check can be done on them. If they come to Europe without ID document, or with fake documents (as many terrorists have done), they are all potentially a threat. Some would say that children aren't a threat, but children grow up and can become terrorists, as the recent Paris and Brussels attacks have shown (almost all the terrorists implicated with born and bred in Belgium or France from immigrant families).

If you doubt anything I have written above you need a serious reality check. The hate of Muslims toward Westerners is visceral and not just found among a minority of fundamentalists. I have been to (non-touristy parts of) Egypt and Palestine before 9/11 and Muslim children threw (mandarin-sized) stones at me when I was peacefully walking in the streets seeing that I was a Westerner. If children carry such natural hate for Westerners before they can even read the Koran and are ready to act on it without provocation, imagine what their parents must have told them. Now that's what the word 'racism' is supposed to describe: children too young to understand religion who throw stones on people who look different from them. Not wanting those children coming to throw stones at you in your country isn't racism. It's common sense and self-protection.

 

[Tomenable]

This Syrian girl has so much more courage than all of these young healthy men fleeing to Europe instead of fighting vs. ISIS:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...-WYD-in-Cracow?p=485952&viewfull=1#post485952

She lives in Aleppo - a city that has been a battlefield since 2012...

 

[Twilight]

This young Syrian girl has so much more courage than all of these young healthy men coming to Europe from the MENA regions:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32562-Meet-a-Syrian-girl-who-came-from-Aleppo-to-WYD-in-Cracow?p=485952&viewfull=1#post485952

She lives in Aleppo - a city that is a battlefield since 2012...

This is unfair, the defenceless such as her should find safety in Europe, while men capable to fight should stay and fight vs. ISIS.

Perhaps Border patrol could do this policy. Men could be stopped and recruited into an army regiment while their wife's and "unready to fight" children get mentally screen checked; especially to figure out if the woman believes in Shira law. If at least some of the defenseless Muslims pass thorough psychological inspection, and let them through, wouldn't that illegitimate the extreme left's cause?

For the Muslim boys ready to fight, I suppose they could get throughly screamed also before joining a regiment.

Coming from an extremist left environment, I feel like we need to make known and proved that racism and equality isn't the issue. I feel like the psychologists will do the job in exposing the real troublemakers and separating them from the friendly pedestrian from the street.

 

[Tomenable]

More of Syrian pilgrims speak at WYD (in English):

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...-WYD-in-Cracow?p=485957&viewfull=1#post485957