Genetic study A genetic history of the Balkans from Roman frontier to Slavic migrations

monster said:
Or better yet, create a model using Roman samples for Paleo-Balkan , use the Nish or maybe some other sampes. Might make the results more accurate + Iron Age Anatolian + Slavic
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Well you should also use some ancient greek samples.Greek ancestry has a significant minority in Albanians.Are you Tosk or Gheg?
 
Kari said:
Well you should also use some ancient greek samples.Greek ancestry has a significant minority in Albanians.Are you Tosk or Gheg?
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That isn't true and uniparental evidence supports that it is, matter of fact, quasi non existent in Albanians. By the way there is no major difference between "Gegë" and "Toskë" like some outsiders try to claim on Anthrofora. The Albanian average is very much similar everywhere with some slightly different variations and that mostly due to different ratios of certain Paleo-Balkan auDNA.

The South (not every subregion of the South which some seem to forget) has rather a very little elevation in Slavic uniparentals (I-Y3120, Slavic R1a-M417+). The rest is a pretty clean Paleo-Balkan distribution as for every other Albanian inhabited region. Albanians in general have the highest percentage of Paleo-Balkan uniparentals (both Y-DNA and MtDNA).
 
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mount123 said:
That isn't true and uniparental evidence supports that it is, matter of fact, quasi non existent in Albanians. By the way there is no major difference between "Gegë" and "Toskë" like some outsiders try to claim on Anthrofora. The Albanian average is very much similar everywhere with some slightly different variations and that mostly due to different ratios of certain Paleo-Balkan auDNA.

The South (not every subregion of the South which some seem to forget) has rather a very little elevation in Slavic uniparentals (I-Y3120, Slavic R1a-M417+). The rest is a pretty clean Paleo-Balkan distribution as for every other Albanian inhabited region. Albanians in general have the highest percentage of Paleo-Balkan uniparentals (both Y-DNA and MtDNA).
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There is a difference in Autosomal DNA though. Uniparental evidence over millennia can be misleading.
 
mount123 said:
That isn't true and uniparental evidence supports that it is, matter of fact, quasi non existent in Albanians. By the way there is no major difference between "Gegë" and "Toskë" like some outsiders try to claim on Anthrofora. The Albanian average is very much similar everywhere with some slightly different variations and that mostly due to different ratios of certain Paleo-Balkan auDNA.

The South (not every subregion of the South which some seem to forget) has rather a very little elevation in Slavic uniparentals (I-Y3120, Slavic R1a-M417+). The rest is a pretty clean Paleo-Balkan distribution as for every other Albanian inhabited region. Albanians in general have the highest percentage of Paleo-Balkan uniparentals (both Y-DNA and MtDNA).
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Vlore seems a bit different, does it not have extra greek or anatolian input?
 
Jovialis said:
Roman Era Anatolian is Mycenaean + Anatolia_BA
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The samples from Anatolia in Roman+Byzantine Era (50 AD-1100 AD) can be modelled as:

30,7% Ancient Greek
25,9% Anatolian
15,6% Caucasian
12,7% Levantine
6,8% Balkanic
3,7% Iranian
2,6% Western European
1,3% Eastern European
0,5% African
0,2% Central Asian

Modern Turks can be modelled as:

35,5% Caucasian
15,2% Anatolian
12,4% Ancient Greek
11,2% Central Asian
7,1% Iranian
7% Levantine
5,5% Balkanic
3,7% Eastern European
1,8% West European
0,6% Southeastern Asian

I created those by using the averages of ancient samples from MBA to IA and Archaic Period.The Anatolian admixture in Iron Age is in such high percentage(40%).The rise on Caucasus percentage happened maybe because some caucasian tribes,like the Laz,inhabited Anatolia.The Ancient Greek percentage fell maybe because the Hellenised locals(which had mixed in some degree with the colonizers)distinguished themselves from the Turkish identity,and Turks didnt mix much with them.
 
TaktikatEMalet said:
Vlore seems a bit different, does it not have extra greek or anatolian input?
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There is more, as per current sample size, Roman mediated Anatolian lineages in some areas in the south due to founder effects. These have a pan-Albanian distribution and are present everywhere in Albanians (also in the North) but in some areas more, as I have pointed out, due to founder effects.

These include lineages under J1a:
J1a-FT196614
J1a-BY94>Y177580

Aswell as Roman mediated Anatolian branches under various L24+ clades. Albanians are also more represented under Balkan Neolithic J2a-Y7010+ branches than their neighbours.

For Albanian J2a-M410 branches Rrenjet writes the following: Tendenca e përgjithshme për rezultatet J2a nga trevat jugore është gjetja e lidhjeve rreth 3000-7000 vjeçare me rezultate të huaja. Shumica e këtyre lidhjeve gjenden me rezultate nga Turqia e Italia, por edhe nga Lindja e Mesme.

There is no branch sharing with Greeks in the main Albanian J2a-M410 and J1a branches. So essentially these have been Roman Anatolian migrants that merged with the local Paleo-Balkan folks. A considerable rest of Albanian J2a-L26 (-Y7010+) branches are of Paleo-Balkan origin.
 
Dianatomia said:
There is a difference in Autosomal DNA though. Uniparental evidence over millennia can be misleading.
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mount123 said:
The Albanian average is very much similar everywhere with some slightly different variations and that mostly due to different ratios of certain Paleo-Balkan auDNA.
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AuDNA, Y-DNA and MtDNA are all three key in deciphering the genetics of a population. There are excellent qpAdm models for the Albanian average that successfuly pass the p-value threshold. There is no evidence for a major deviation in Albanian subgroups, the standard deviation is small.
 
Most of the reigonal differences among Albanians observable, in terms of yDNA, could easily explained by recent founder events, considering that most of the major Albanian branches are fairly young anyway. On the other hand, such founder events might mask older uniparental variation.
 
mount123 said:
There is more, as per current sample size, Roman mediated Anatolian lineages in some areas in the south due to founder effects. These have a pan-Albanian distribution and are present everywhere in Albanians (also in the North) but in some areas more, as I have pointed out, due to founder effects.

These include lineages under J1a:
J1a-FT196614
J1a-BY94>Y177580

Aswell as Roman mediated Anatolian branches under various L24+ clades. Albanians are also more represented under Balkan Neolithic J2a-Y7010+ branches than their neighbours.

For Albanian J2a-M410 branches Rrenjet writes the following: Tendenca e përgjithshme për rezultatet J2a nga trevat jugore është gjetja e lidhjeve rreth 3000-7000 vjeçare me rezultate të huaja. Shumica e këtyre lidhjeve gjenden me rezultate nga Turqia e Italia, por edhe nga Lindja e Mesme.

There is no branch sharing with Greeks in the main Albanian J2a-M410 and J1a branches. So essentially these have been Roman Anatolian migrants that merged with the local Paleo-Balkan folks. A considerable rest of Albanian J2a-L26 (-Y7010+) branches are of Paleo-Balkan origin.
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Wasn't j-by94 found in ancient Macedonia and Greece?

There is nothing Anatolian about this line -

J-BY94 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com

J2a-l26 has a lot of different lines, some of it could be ancient Greek, some of it could be anatolian -

It was also present in bronze age Sicily -
 
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mount123 said:
AuDNA, Y-DNA and MtDNA are all three key in deciphering the genetics of a population. There are excellent qpAdm models for the Albanian average that successfuly pass the p-value threshold. There is no evidence for a major deviation in Albanian subgroups, the standard deviation is small.
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Can you share with us some qpAdm models then?
 
TaktikatEMalet said:
Wasn't j-by94 found in ancient Macedonia and Greece?

There is nothing Anatolian about this line -

J-BY94 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com

J2a-l26 has a lot of different lines, some of it could be ancient Greek, some of it could be anatolian -

It was also present in bronze age Sicily -
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It wasn't found in Greece but North Macedonia. The earliest diversity is Anatolian and earliest examples of auDNA heavily Anatolian.

J2a-L26 is a macrohaplogroup designation. You can't argue with macrohaplogroups whose formation and TMRCA lies in the Paleolithic, the conclusions will be erroneous. You can check the Albanian J2a-M410 branches on Rrenjet, lumping them under macrohaplogroups doesn't serve any purpose. J2a-PF5252 for instance being found in Bronze Age Italy is irrelevant to Albanians because most Albanians belong to different haplogroups under J2a-M410 which again is a macrohaplogroup.

Neither in more prominent Balkan Neolithic derived J2a-Y7010 branches in Albanians nor Roman era Anatolian derived Albanian J2a-M410 branches will you find a significant amount of clades shared with Greeks.

For further reading: https://rrenjet.com/j-m410/
 
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mount123 said:
It wasn't found in Greece but North Macedonia. The earliest diversity is Anatolian and earliest examples of auDNA heavily Anatolian.

J2a-L26 is a macrohaplogroup designation. You can't argue with macrohaplogroups whose formation and TMRCA lies in the Paleolithic, the conclusions will be erroneous.

You can check the Albanian J2a-M410 branches on Rrenjet, lumping them under macrohaplogroups doesn't serve any purpose. J2a-PF5252 for instance being found in Bronze Age Italy is irrelevant to Albanians because most Albanians belong to different haplogroups under J2a-M410, which is a macrohaplogroup.

Neither in Balkan Neolithic derived J2a-Y7010 branches in Albanians nor Roman era Anatolian derived Albanian branches will you find clades shared with Greeks.

For further reading: https://rrenjet.com/j-m410/
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The sample in ancient Macedonia was heavily Anatolian? Moreso than Mycenaeans?

Y7010 is a very minor lineage in Albanians but you're right this looks Anatolian, a lot of other J2a lines are more common. It is not true that Albanians and Greeks do not share J2a lines, here is one example which looks Anatolian in origin and you can find many more -

J-BY22478 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com
 
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Kari said:
Well you should also use some ancient greek samples.Greek ancestry has a significant minority in Albanians.Are you Tosk or Gheg?
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I'm Gheg, all three Thracians-Dacians, Celts and Illyrian tribes lived close to each other so I wouldn't be surprised if we got admixture and cultural/linguistic influence from all of them + Slavic + Anatolian/Roman Imperial + some Germanic at least .
 
mount123 said:
AuDNA, Y-DNA and MtDNA are all three key in deciphering the genetics of a population. There are excellent qpAdm models for the Albanian average that successfuly pass the p-value threshold. There is no evidence for a major deviation in Albanian subgroups, the standard deviation is small.
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'''
Yes, I think mtdna and y-dna are much more important in telling someones ancestry than calculators made by armchair scientists .
 
monster said:
I'm Gheg, all three Thracians-Dacians, Celts and Illyrian tribes lived close to each other so I wouldn't be surprised if we got admixture and cultural/linguistic influence from all of them + Slavic + Anatolian/Roman Imperial + some Germanic at least .
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Do you have G25 coordinates?
 
I do have cords but they are not real only simulated anyway, i might get real ones but i don't think i will waste money on such useless trash, thinking of just buying Y-DNA to do a deeper test and do mtdna test etc . But I will PM you my simulated cords and some Albanian cords I got if you want, anyway I am reading on the Dalmatians:

Archaeology and onomastic shows that the Delmatae were akin to eastern Illyrians and northern Pannonii.[14] The tribe was subject to Celtic influences.[15][16] One of the Dalmatian tribes was called Baridustae[17] that later was settled in Roman Dacia. Pliny the Elder also mentioned the Tariotes, and their territory Tariota, which was described as an ancient region. The Tariotes are considered part of the Delmatae.[18][19]
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Dalmatae - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Baridustae - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I wonder what happened to all the Illyrian tribes in Croatia. There is more E-V13 there than J2b2 today, also in Bosnia, way more E-V13. Slavic lineages also replaced almost entirely the native population there.
Also what happened to the Thracian/Dacian tribes ?
 
I gave the link to the bam file of
Individual I15499 ( the east african e-m78>v32 dude from pirivoj viminacium)
to theytree site
I see they uploaded him (y)

E-CTS3282 - 祖源树TheYtree（基因溯源，免费上树，电子家谱）祖缘树, 父系树

E-CTS3282 - 祖源树TheYtree，也称 祖缘树 全球首个致力于基因寻根溯源服务的公益性网站，不分肤色，不分国籍，不分姓氏，只要你有做父系基因检测，都免费上祖源树，永不磨灭的电子家谱！
www.theytree.com www.theytree.com

I15499 - 1895±20 BP - E-CTS3282 / L2a1j - 祖源树TheYtree

祖源树TheYtree样本：I15499 - 1895±20 BP
www.theytree.com www.theytree.com

from the paper :
1703429531614.png
 
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monster said:
I do have cords but they are not real only simulated anyway, i might get real ones but i don't think i will waste money on such useless trash, thinking of just buying Y-DNA to do a deeper test and do mtdna test etc . But I will PM you my simulated cords and some Albanian cords I got if you want, anyway I am reading on the Dalmatians:



Dalmatae - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Baridustae - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I wonder what happened to all the Illyrian tribes in Croatia. There is more E-V13 there than J2b2 today, also in Bosnia, way more E-V13. Slavic lineages also replaced almost entirely the native population there.
Also what happened to the Thracian/Dacian tribes ?
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Well,i cant trust Y-Dna more than autosomal DNA.My Y-DNA is I2a,which is probably of Slavic origin,but my Slavic ancestry doesn't exceed 30%.
 
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