The Gay Marriage Controversy

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Originally Posted by mdchachi

Some of you are confusing the legal definition of marriage with that of religious marriage. Gays have been getting married in religious ceremonies for years. Whether or not a religious organization allows gays to marry is an issue for that organization alone.

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I didn't know that. So why are religious leaders or extremist so agitated about now in the States ? Civil marriage shouldn't be a problem for them, as it is not connected to religion (oh, damn it, I forgot that the US does not separate church and state :angryfire: )

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For example, why limit "marriage" or "civil unions" to gay & heterosexual couples? Why couldn't a brother and sister enter into a committed "civil union"? Why couldn't a man or a woman form a "civil union" with multiple partners (ie polygamy)?

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Excellent point ! The future of our society lies in such reasoning. Marriage is an anticated institution. People should be able to live (that doesn't mean have sex or children - still another debate) with whoever they want and enjoy the same legal protection as "regular couples". I mean, some people can be sterile, castrated (still lots of them in India) or just don't like sex or don't want to have children. Wht couldn't they live with a friend or family member and share the benefits social and medical care, like a gay civil union ?

But very religious or conservative people will never understand such logic of their lifetime.

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BTW, great post Rachel, I completely agree ! :cool:

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Originally Posted by Rachel

... Why the HELL did you elect this guy as leader of your country ? I mean… WHY ?
I just don’t get it !

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we didnt, bush lost the popular vote by 500,000. but because of the stupid system thats in place he got the presidency. anyway nice rant.

> This man is a modern day Hitler ! And I'm sorry if that offends anyone but, lets look at the facts.

> The ONLY real difference is bush’s PR is slicker and better developed than Hitler’s was.

I realize you are just ranting but the comparison is not apt in my opinion and I wouldn't worry about things getting out of control. Bush doesn't have the cult of personality that Hitler had. He doesn't have the support (remember only about 24% of people of voting age voted for him in the first place). On top of that he's not likely to gain much more support. Unlike Hitler he hasn't solved the nations problems. (Under Hitler the Germany's unemployment rates went down as production soared.) Unlike Hitler he doesn't have a grand appealing vision. (Afterall, Hitler foresaw the European Union -- unification of Europe -- he just happened to believe it would be best if Europe was unified as a single Germany.) Unlike Hitler he doesn't have enough support to change the nation's Constitution or subvert the courts. And I personally believe he doesn't have the ambition.

Even if Bush gets reelected, it won't be the end of the world. Certainly nothing even close to Hitler's regime.

I'm sure the hitler comparison was just a metaphor to symbolize Bush's apparent strive for tyranny, and oppression.

Guys, please, dont worry too much. Everything will change when I gain power. People think I'm joking when I say that; I'm really not.

Gays should be culled.
Set replies for any comments:
a) No offence.
b) I don't care.

NB, those two aren't the obvious contradictions they appear to be.

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Originally Posted by howabe

Gays should be culled.
Set replies for any comments:
a) No offence.
b) I don't care.

NB, those two aren't the obvious contradictions they appear to be.

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!PERDON! :wave: I don't care if you care or not, but exactly what do you mean by that? (This goes to Toliet Roll too!) Please tell me, I wish to know what makes bigots tick.

You know what my husband said when asked if gays should be allowed to marry? He said it would be good in that maybe the 'defect' would eventually cease to exist.

bound to kill a love, no matter how strong!

Frank

:D :p :cool: :blush:

all the more women left for me !!

Frank

:blush:

Yeah, we know Frank. You're licking your eyebrows...we know... :p

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Originally Posted by kirei_na_me

Yeah, we know Frank. You're licking your eyebrows...we know... :p

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Excuse me, hairball !!

Frank

:blush:

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You know what my husband said when asked if gays should be allowed to marry? He said it would be good in that maybe the 'defect' would eventually cease to exist.

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I don't follow the logic. :confused:

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Originally Posted by mdchachi

I don't follow the logic. :confused:

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Exactly. I don't either.

Time for your local intermission.
Forget the negative campaign ads this year during the US Election time. Why settle for a lesser evil? Vote for Cutethulhu and VP Cute Kitthulhu!
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming... :D

it's election time...what more is there to say? :D

"Maybe the 'defect' would eventually cease to exist."

The sole purpose in a human's life is the procreate. Homosexuals don't have children. Therefore they are a pointless defect that in no way leads to the furtherment of the human species.

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Originally Posted by Kuro_Tsubasa69

I wish to know what makes bigots tick.

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Usually the knowledge that what they say is right.
Also, before ascertaining that it isn't because of my religion, or personal experience (ie. having been violently raped by a man etc) that I hold these beliefs, don't label me.

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Originally Posted by howabe

"Maybe the 'defect' would eventually cease to exist."

The sole purpose in a human's life is the procreate. Homosexuals don't have children. Therefore they are a pointless defect that in no way leads to the furtherment of the human species.

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As also many heterosexual couples. And what do you want to do with this? Kill them, for this?

Definetely! Gay marriages should be allowed. I'd like to have a marriage with a person I love wether it's boy or a girl. I don't care about religious ceremony, as I am not religious, at last in the sense of being religious Catholic.

I think that "marriage" can be viewed also as a sybol of equality. I am the same as you, why my love should be evil and siniful, juzt because I love the person of the same sex? Love doesn't bother with partner's sex... It's just descending onto you. Being in love and wanting to be in a relationship with this person... Is it bad? I don't want a world like this.

I know! I should become politician!! :D

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Originally Posted by howabe

"Maybe the 'defect' would eventually cease to exist."

The sole purpose in a human's life is the procreate. Homosexuals don't have children. Therefore they are a pointless defect that in no way leads to the furtherment of the human species.

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I knew that was what he was trying to say, but there are homosexuals who have children via artificial insemination, right? Like a gay man might use his sperm with the egg of a surrogate mother or a lesbian might use her egg and then sperm from a donor, as a lot of them do.

Then there's all those who aren't 'out' and are in heterosexual marriages for whatever reason. There will still be children produced from those relationships.

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Originally Posted by howabe

The sole purpose in a human's life is the procreate. Homosexuals don't have children. Therefore they are a pointless defect that in no way leads to the furtherment of the human species.

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Nope! Biologically/evolutionary invalid points.
BTW, which furtherment?

> The sole purpose in a human's life is the procreate [sic]

And how would you happen to know this? Are you God?

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Originally Posted by howabe

Usually the knowledge that what they say is right.
Also, before ascertaining that it isn't because of my religion, or personal experience (ie. having been violently raped by a man etc) that I hold these beliefs, don't label me.

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I still think that you're a BIGOT.

1) Religion is not something to hide behind. (Because, after all, it was created by MAN.) ~AND, also, religion is mainly the reason behind bigotry, I actually assumed that was the reason you hate~

2) Really? Personal experience you say?

AHEM. *enter rant mode*

Women are violently raped all the time...by MEN. Yet do they hate each and every single one out there?? NO. Also, you may not be aware of this fact, but a straight male is more likely to rape another man than a gay male is.

Also, I assume you hate all homosexuals, correct? Well, if, say, it was a gay male who raped you, and you thus hated all gay males thenceforth, what about the lesbians? What'd they do? Why do you hate all if it was just one gender?

*END RANT*

Oh, yeah. Please tell me how bigots are "right".

Ok. Firstly, although this obviously appears to simply be an attempt at ducking out of the situation, I'd like to point out that neither of those comments were actually my own opinion. Being the superficial person I am, the first was simply to amuse a friend. The second was merely an attempt to try and explain a standpoint which people seemed to have difficulty getting to grips with.
@ Mr. 'Pimp':
a) I'm an atheist.
b) 'a straight male is more likely to rape another man than a gay male is'.
Maybe so. But my statement was hypothetical. Any 'bigot', as you so prejudicially put it, who had been raped, whether by a 'straight' or gay man, would, as a bigot, simply blame it on all gays, as he would obviously be prejudiced against them. I was simply working with your sweeping generalisation. Had you elaborated better, my reply would most likely have been quite different.
b) 'Personal experience'.
Not my own personal experience.
c) 'I assume you hate all homosexuals right?'
Another random assumption. My school had the highest proportion of gays than any other in the Northwest, and (I hate to phrase it in such a way, but needs must) daily interaction and of course close friendship with them has (I like to think) given me a higher-than-usual tolerance of gays.
d) 'Please tell me how bigots are "right"'
If there was nothing to base an opinion on, it would most likely never occur. Therefore, bigots must base their opinions on some (however feeble) semblance of truth
Addendum:
If you were more observant, you'd realise I was an avid Juggalo. You'd also probably know the Insane Clown Posse promote acceptance of all people and that everyone deserves to be treated equal. Being as obssessed as I am, I follow this to the word, which obviously means I try to hold as few prejudices as I can.
Bear in mind:
"There ain't no bigot that ain't been Clowned."

@ mdchachi:
Know how to form the perfect active infinitive of an impersonal deponant verb? No? Then don't mock an accidental grammatical mistake.

Probably going away for a while till matters calm down.

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Originally Posted by howabe

Usually the knowledge that what they say is right.

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(Room drops a couple of degrees)

pardon !.....

(Sound of breeze block being sliped into handbag)

Howabe..2 questions.

a. How old are you?
b. What is your opinion on the 'NF'?

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Originally Posted by Toilet Roll

Look, I think what I am trying to say is, poofs are poofs, but when they start trying to have a baby? Its just wrong in my opinion :(

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If anyone is intrested this guy is a brit, I'd say he's about the age of 8 - 13.

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Originally Posted by Toilet Roll

If they can't make love and produce off-spring, they should be shot.

I know animals can't be gay too.

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digging your own right next to his? Intolarance is a hard lable to shake! Freedom of speech & right to your opinion
can lead to some BIG hard feelings.If we want everyone to feel welcome on this Forum, some things are better left unsaid, even if you do truly believe them! This looks like a good thread to lock down before we all go to far down the road & around the bend!!

Frank

in the past, people who say politically incorrect(hateful)
things get banned from posting, sometimes with a warning before and sometimes no warning. It doesn't pay to even joke about somethings. This Forum probably has less hate & anger then most do. It really is nice when everyone is friendly & polite; one big happy family!! By the way, I have no power or athority on the Forum, I just like happy people!


Frank

:blush:

My warning is up there.

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Originally Posted by Frank D. White

in the past, people who say politically incorrect(hateful)
things get banned from posting, sometimes with a warning before and sometimes no warning. It doesn't pay to even joke about somethings. This Forum probably has less hate & anger then most do. It really is nice when everyone is friendly & polite; one big happy family!! By the way, I have no power or athority on the Forum, I just like happy people!


Frank

:blush:

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I'm in agreement with you frank. I think some one needs to step in now and sort this out, before it gets out of hand.

He tried to be sneaky and add something to another one of his posts after I deleted the last one. I don't like sneaky, I don't like inflammatory posts, and I don't like someone trying to dumb down my thread.

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Originally Posted by kirei_na_me

He tried to be sneaky and add something to another one of his posts after I deleted the last one. I don't like sneaky, I don't like inflammatory posts, and I don't like someone trying to dumb down my thread.

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(In best American accent)

You GO girl !! Yeah ! :cool:

*gives Rachel high five*

I have to crack that whip every once in awhile! :p

Howabe... IF your saying your post was a joke, It was done in really bad taste.
It wasn't big, and it definitely wasn't clever.

Well ok since I work at a zoo I know animals can be gay. I know female goats who are confused and try to mate with other females. These gay female goats think they are male. I think we also have a gay male goat something about a chemical imbalance. Well I think gay marriages are good and the whole thing about children well you know how many homeless kids we have. These couples could adopt and provide a stable home. I think this can help our society out and provide a home for these children.

> Know how to form the perfect active infinitive of an impersonal deponant verb? No? Then don't mock an accidental grammatical mistake.

I wasn't mocking your grammatical mistake (what made you think so?). It should be clear that I was questioning your statement itself. ([sic] is used to quote a person to indicate that the mistake is not the quoter's but the quotee's; it's not normally used to mock.)

Ok lets get back to the matter at hand now.
I think most of us agree that gay couples should have the legal right to be together.
Correct?
The question now seems to be what kind of union would be best.
I think gay couples should have the same right to marry as non-gay couples

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bigot
n : a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions
differing from his own

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I think if you browse this thread, you'll find that the only people who are intolerent of other people's opinion (yes, opinion being the key word) are the ones in some kind of moral lynch mob, hypocritically flinging the word 'bigot' about.

I don't see any insults from anyone against gay marriage here, at all. Just derogatory remarks made to them, by others.

It can't be argued against that homosexuality is a defect. It's basic biology, and more importantly, common sense that it's abnormal. Research in animals suggests that it is a genetic brain abnormality, and soon the technology will allow us to prove this for humans too.

The fact that in some countries it's legal for two gay people to adopt is politicl correctness gone crazy. I pity any poor child with same sex parents. Teased at school, given the wrong image of how a family should be, and having to think about his parents having gay sex. It's abhorrent.

Marriage is superficial. If you love someone, you don't need to marry them. At all. People are complaining about this for complaining's sake, because they have nothing better to do than whine.

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Originally Posted by Frank D. White
in the past, people who say politically incorrect(hateful)

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politically incorrect does not mean hateful. If it did, it'd be called 'hateful' and not 'politically incorrect'. A more accurate description of politically incorrect would be "what most people think, but don't want to say because of a select few people (usually minority groups) crying about it". It's just a restriction of free speech to make people look 'clean' and politicians safe from anyone whatsoever kicking up a fuss.

Rachel, you say that we think 'gay people should have the legal right to be togther'. They DO. They just can't get married. Big deal. If I was gay I'd be worried about, well, being gay, not about the fact I couldn't get married.

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Originally Posted by Sanitarium

It can't be argued against that homosexuality is a defect. It's basic biology, and more importantly, common sense that it's abnormal. Research in animals suggests that it is a genetic brain abnormality, and soon the technology will allow us to prove this for humans too.

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Well, you can call homosexuality abnormal, for the vast majority (the "average") is not. But basic biology? No way! Homosexuality exists in a lot of species, not just humans. It obviously has a function or else it wouldn't exist in so many species. A deviation in the brain, doesn't mean that it is bad: abnormal ... maybe, harmful ... obviously not.

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I pity any poor child with same sex parents. Teased at school

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The teasing originates from intolerance in society. If somebody is to blame then it's not the homosexuals.

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Marriage is superficial. If you love someone, you don't need to marry them. At all.

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True, but if they want to marry, why not?

Excellent, bossel.

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Originally Posted by Sanitarium

It can't be argued against that homosexuality is a defect. It's basic biology, and more importantly, common sense that it's abnormal. Research in animals suggests that it is a genetic brain abnormality, and soon the technology will allow us to prove this for humans too.

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Good God! No! Never! I don't want this. It's brainwashing... That can lead to tyrany. It's not abnormal... Maybe for you, but for me it's quite normal that I like both boys and girls... I feel offended by your statement.

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The fact that in some countries it's legal for two gay people to adopt is politicl correctness gone crazy. I pity any poor child with same sex parents. Teased at school, given the wrong image of how a family should be, and having to think about his parents having gay sex. It's abhorrent.

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It's good that they can marry. Your point of view is from middleages, I would say. More importantly the family should be loving, not talking about somebody's sex. A wrong image of how a family should be is having a drunkard and psychical/phisical violence at home.

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Marriage is superficial. If you love someone, you don't need to marry them. At all. People are complaining about this for complaining's sake, because they have nothing better to do than whine.

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You don't need, but maybe I want to marry the person I love. It's only your point of view, on the whole world there are people who marry somebody because of love.

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Rachel, you say that we think 'gay people should have the legal right to be togther'. They DO. They just can't get married. Big deal. If I was gay I'd be worried about, well, being gay, not about the fact I couldn't get married.

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Why should I worry that I am gay [ok. : bi?]? It's absolutely normal for me, no need to worry about this. And I want to marry the person i love without worrying if it's woman or man. Yes, big deal. Why I can't get married? I am juzt a normal citizen.

WHAT'S GOING ON?!I cant believe that there are people that thinks we're here just to procriate..We're all here with some mission to achieve here in the Planet...We're not animals! We are human beings. So I'm sure that we're not here just to procriate...

Research in animals suggests that it is a genetic brain abnormality, and soon the technology will allow us to prove this for humans too

I'm really glad I was born GAY. And if I could turn back time and choose to be heterossexual...I wouldnt do that. I met many interestings people(gays and heteressuals) And if I wasnt gay. I wouldnt never know then..

I respect all u guys...So respect us!! RESPECT ITS ALL WE NEED...

And please dont compare animals with us! Off course I'm sure that there are animals more decent than many humans around...

P.S. My sister is a pshychologist and she says that people whom says too much bad things about gays. It's because they're gay thenselves...They just repress their feelings because they think it would be wrong. :giggle: