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I believe that more human lives can be improved and saved by spending money on drugs that already exist for curable diseases in third world countries (or disaster relief etc.) than by spending it on research(animal or not) on predominantly western diseases. I also believe that more animal lives...

I don't find that many people argue with our lecturers here. But thats either because they know that the lecutrers know much more than them, or we are all sleeping through the lecture. (of course we point out mistakes though) Although, jsut a while back in our lecutres on Franco, we had one...

I have a feeling that SVF and Tokis actually agree with each other, but for good reasons are unable to accept the way the other wishes to present the conclusion. (I may be way off here but this is how I see it) I think that we agree that: 1) Modern meat farming is bad for the environment 2)...

Well that isn't quite the point I was trying to make. In the first place I would rather use the words better and worse than good or bad in this situation. Additionally when I was saying an average meat eating diet, I was referring really to factory farmed meat as this consists of most meat. I...

For what its worth, I thought that your point was perfectly clear. I always found it interesting that the British 'converted' Ghandi from a mroe 'religious vegeratianism' to moral vegetarianism from an animal rights perspecive. As for whether or not vegetarianism is related to peoples...

To say that vegetarianism isn't good for the environment because fossil fuels and pollution still occurs doesn't hold up. You might as well say that recycling is bad for the environment because pollution still occurs. We could say eating locally grown produce is bad for the environment because...

I've never created a poll before, this is exciting. :blush: Anyway, from the 'vegetarianism and the environment' thread I was wondering how much people here consider the environmental aspects of there diet when they are doing their food shopping. Do you advoid factory farmed meat and go for...

I agree with the sentiments expressed by many people above that factory farming has a negative affect on the environment. I don't think anyone has tried to challenge this. I also agree with tokis that a completely vegan population would be less effecient than one with some free range farming. I...

Actually, vegetarians don't have a problem with B12 because its found in dairy products (milk yogurt etc), its vegans who have to watch out for it. B12 is found in other non-animal products apart from seaweed, notably marmite and soymilk. By the way, do you have marmite over there in the US? I...

I very much support you here. The gap between 'good and 'bad' here is most definately between free range meat and factory farmed meat not vegetarian and meat eater. I feel that AR and AW organisations are failing to promote free range meat and other products enough. What does annoy me is people...

I would say that I'm vegan, but thats not completely true becuase I'm not so fussy, I make exceptions especially when going on holiday or eating at certain restaurants. Of course, I would still stay vegetarian then. When I'm just cooking for myself at home its no problem though, it just means no...

OK, sorry. I thought you would going for more of an end justifies the means thing than a morality is subjective thing. I haven't got time to read all of everyone's replies there just now, I should be asleep,, but i'll just make one comment. How I see morality is all I have to judge what is good...

I'm going to have to disagree with you here Reiku. I'm not going to argue here against animal testing, but against your idea of, how I see it as, the 'intent' justifiying the means. This is because the same argument could be used to justify horrible acts like suicide bombings in...

I don't think that PETA does any work in Africa, but they are in developing nations, especially India. http://www.petaindia.com/ Well, PETA's objective isn't to save animals from extinction, there are plenty of other organisaition that work in that area like the WWF having too wide a goals will...

I agree. I quit. Any reply I make now to the parts of Haciro's posts would just be repeating things that I have already said. Briefly though, fantasies are not a crime, rape is. People are only guilty after commiting a crime. Therapists are probably the only people that can help paedophiles live...

First of all I refer you to Tsuoiko's post. Note that I said paedohiple, not paedohile rapist or anything to imply that they may have comitted a crime. I even said 'so that they don't act on thier attraction to children' which, if anything, implies that they haven't yet comitted a crime. I...

I agree. Thats why I feel that paedophiles should be able to recieve support, so that they don't act on thier attraction to children, knowing that they wouldn't be hated or seen as sick for it. However this would require people to become less prejudiced, which is never an easy thing for them to do.

Yay, this is actually what I wanted to discuss. And it seems someone can do it in a civilised manner too. I was including all sexual acts when I said rape. I belive this is the definition of rape. dictionary.com "The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual...

I insist again that any ambiguity from post 50 was cleared up by post 53 when I said that children can't constent until 15-17 and so sex with children younger than that is rape. Reiku also made it very clear what I was trying to say. (The same distinction was also presented by Yiduki in post 7)...

However, at the very beginning I said that any sex with children under 15-17 was rape. How did you manage to continue to misunderstand after that? I don't believe after clarifying myself with that point that my argument was in anyway ambigious, and yet it was after that point that you began to...