Oldest European cities

Huelva no la fundaron los fenicios, no es cierto... aqui os dejo un enlace, esta en espa�ol.
http://terraeantiqvae.blogia.com/20...a-una-de-las-mayores-colecciones-de-arte-.php
La dataci�n de la ciudad de Huelva es minimo de 2.500 anos Antes de Cristo (years before Christ).

The linked article say that they found remains (in this case, idols) that are between 4500 and 5000 years old. It's not because there are human artefacts that the place was a city. Human were already manufacturing weapons, pottery and idols before the rise of agriculture. The first farming societies were organised in small villages. There are thousands of them in Europe, but these are not proper cities, with streets, walls, public buildings, etc.

A 35,000 year-old flute and idol ("Venus figure") were found in Hohle Fels cavern in Germany, but nobody would ever call it a city, or even a village. It's the same here.
 
Gobeki Tepe (Turkey, Close to Troy) 11,500 years ago
Göbekli Tepe (Turkish for "Hill with a potbelly"; Kurdish: Girê Navokê) is a hilltop sanctuary built on the highest point of an elongated mountain ridge about 15 km northeast of the town of Şanlıurfa (formerly Urfa) in southeastern Turkey. The site, currently undergoing excavation by German and Turkish archaeologists, was erected by hunter-gatherers in the 10th millennium BC (ca 11,500 years ago), before the advent of sedentism. Together with the site of Nevalı Çori, it has revolutionised understanding of the Eurasian Neolithic.

Old settlement indeed, but not a city. It clearly says it is a sanctuary made by hunter-gatherers.
 
Old settlement indeed, but not a city. It clearly says it is a sanctuary made by hunter-gatherers.

Agreed. Residential status not yet confirmed. Streets, yes. Public buildings, yes. But what an assembly point!

"All statements about the site must be considered preliminary, as only about 5% of the site's total area has been excavated as yet; floor levels have been reached in only the second complex (complex B), which also contained a terrazzo-like floor. Schmidt believes that the dig could well continue for another fifty years. So far excavations have revealed very little evidence for residential use. Through the radiocarbon method, the end of stratum III can be fixed at circa 9,000 BC (see above); its beginnings are estimated to 11,000 BC or earlier. Stratum II dates to about 8,000 BC.
Thus, the structures not only predate pottery, metallurgy, and the invention of writing or the wheel; they were built before the so-called Neolithic Revolution, i.e., the beginning of agriculture and anima husbandry around 9,000 BC. But the construction of Göbekli Tepe implies organisation of an order of complexity not hitherto associated with pre-Neolithic societies. The archaeologists estimate that up to 500 persons were required to extract the 10–20 ton pillars (in fact, some weigh up to 50 tons) from local quarries and move them 100 to 500m to the site.Archaeologist Ofer Ben-Yosef of Harvard has said he would not be surprised if evidence surfaces proving slave labor was involved—which would also represent something of a first, since hunting-gathering communities are traditionally thought to have been egalitarian and to predate slavery. At any rate, it is generally believed that an elite class of religious leaders supervised the work and later controlled whatever ceremonies took place here. If so, this would be the oldest known evidence for a priestly caste—much earlier than such social distinctions developed elsewhere in the Near East".

Source: Wiki Göbekli Tepe
 
Wurzburg established over 3,000 years ago.
Würzburg is a city in the region of Franconia which lies in the northern tip of Bavaria, Germany. Located on the Main River, it is the capital of the Regierungsbezirk Lower Franconia. The regional dialect is Franconian. Its population is 131,320 as of December 31, 2006.
By 1000 BC a Celtic fortification stood on the site of the present Fortress Marienberg. It was Christianized in 686 by Irish missionaries Kilian, Colman and Totnan.
Source: Wiki Wurzburg
 
Wurzburg established over 3,000 years ago.
Würzburg is a city in the region of Franconia which lies in the northern tip of Bavaria, Germany. Located on the Main River, it is the capital of the Regierungsbezirk Lower Franconia. The regional dialect is Franconian. Its population is 131,320 as of December 31, 2006.
By 1000 BC a Celtic fortification stood on the site of the present Fortress Marienberg. It was Christianized in 686 by Irish missionaries Kilian, Colman and Totnan.
Source: Wiki Wurzburg

You are right about Würzburg. I have added it to the list.
 
As previously mentioned by Roni.
Varna (Bulgaria) 5,000 BC
Varna, is the largest city and seaside resort on the Bulgarian Black Sea Coast and in Northern Bulgaria, third-largest in Bulgaria after Sofia and Plovdiv, and 77th-largest in the European Union, with a population of 355,450 (405,329 in the metro area).
Prehistoric settlements best known for the eneolithic necropolis (mid-5th millennium BC radiocarbon dating), a key archaeological site in world prehistory, eponymous of old European Varna culture and internationally considered the world's oldest large find of gold artifacts, existed within modern city limits. The graves have been dated to 4600-4200 BCE (radiocarbon dating, 2004) and belong to the Eneolithic Varna culture, which is the local variant of the KGKVI.
In the broader region of the Varna lakes (then freshwater) and the adjacent karst springs and caves, over 30 prehistoric settlements have been unearthed with the earliest artifacts dating back to the Middle Paleolithic or 100,000 years ago.
Varna is among Europe's oldest cities. Thracians populated the area by 1200 BC.
Source: Wiki Varna
 
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As previously mentioned by Roni.
Plovdiv (Bulgaria) 4,000 BC
Plovdiv is the second-largest city in Bulgaria after Sofia, with a population of 380,638. Known in ancient times as Philippoupolis, it is the administrative center of Plovdiv Province in southern Bulgaria, as well as the largest and most important city in Northern Thrace and the wider international historical region of Thrace.
With a history dating back over 6000 years Plovdiv is one of Europe's oldest settlements. Archaeologists have discovered fine pottery and other objects of everyday life from as early as the Neolithic Age, showing that in the end of the 7th millennium B.C. there already was an established settlement there. According to Ammianus Marcellinus, Plovdiv's written post-Bronze Age history lists it as a Thracian fortified settlement named Eumolpias.
Source: Wiki Plovdiv
 
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Os dejo mas ciudades antiguas:
Bastida (cerca de Totana, Murcia): 2.200 BCE
Ubeda (provincia de Jaen, Andalucia): 4.000 BCE
Jaen (Andalucia) : 4.000 BCE
pero tranquilos que hay mas...
 
Otra ciudad en Espana, capital de la Edetania y llamada Edeta, estoy hablando de Liria.

Liria (Valencia): 2.000 BCE

Y ahora la ciudad o una de las ciudades mas antiguas de Espana, esta en Alicante y en epoca ibera se le llamaba Ilici, en ella se encontro la escultura famosa de la Dama de Elche, pues nada ya he dicho su nombre. En la ciudad se ha encontrado una "ciudad" neolitica, formada por una calle y cabanas a su alrededor.

Elche (Alicante): 5.000 BCE

Os dejo otra ciudad de Espana y tambien muy antigua

Valdepino (Cuenca): 4.000 BCE
 
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During the 4th millennium BCE, the late Tripolye culture, in the centre-east of modern Ukraine, developed the largest towns in the world. Although not properly cities (they lacked fortifications, administrative buildings, or temples), the largest of these oversized villages were twice the size of Mesopotamian city-states. The largest Tripolye towns were the sites of :

- Talianki (450 ha ; 4.5 km2 ; 1110 acres)
- Maidanets (250 ha ; 2.5 km2 ; 600 acres)
- Dobrovody (250 ha ; 2.5 km2 ; 600 acres)
- Kasenovka (125 ha ; 1.25 km2 ; 300 acres)

The estimated population was up to 15,000 inhabitants for Talianki. Not bad for 5500 years ago. At the time, most of the world's population lived in tribal camps or villages rarely exceeding 10 to 100 people.

In terms of comparison, central Oxford is about 2 km2. Eneolithic houses were usually single-storied, which forced the population to be very spread out by modern standard. But Talianki's land area was about 4 times bigger than a city like Oxford or Monaco. It was more comparable to the size of Bruges, Bonn, Avignon, Pisa or Salamanca (I checked on Google Maps, and they are all about 2 km x 2 km).
 
Bueno aqui teneis una ciudad megalitica, en la propia ciudad hay tres santuarios megaliticos, esta en Andalucia, en Malaga... es la ciudad de Antequera, su antiguedad esta en torno a 4.000 antes de cristo, en un principio se dataron hacia el 2.500 aC. pero nuevas dataciones los datan en 4.000 a?os. En los alrededores de la ciudad se han encontrado cuevas con pinturas rupestres, su antiguedad en realidad es mucho mayor, aunque si hay que hablar de ciudad... podemos hablar del 4.000 aC. es decir una ciudad de hace 6.000 a?os de antig?edad.
 
I have added old Iberian settlements as well. Some were fairly large towns, such as Zambujal.
 
One of the oldest polish cities - Cracow. Filled with beuitful, old streets, cafes, restaurants, monuments and charming hostels like aston :)
 
Çatalhöyük

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Çatalhöyük

Çatal Höyük (Turkish pronunciation: [tʃaˈtal.højyk]; also Çatalhöyük and Çatal Hüyük, or any of the three without diacritics; çatal is Turkish for "fork", höyük for "mound") was a very large Neolithic and Chalcolithic settlement in southern Anatolia, which existed from approximately 7500 BCE to 5700 BCE. It is the largest and best preserved Neolithic site found to date.
Çatalhöyük is located overlooking wheat fields in the Konya Plain, southeast of the present-day city of Konya (ancient Iconium) in Turkey, approximately 140 km (87 mi) from the twin-coned volcano of Hasan Dağ. The eastern settlement forms a mound which would have risen about 20 m (66 ft) above the plain at the time of the latest Neolithic occupation. There is also a smaller settlement mound to the west and a Byzantine settlement a few hundred meters to the east. The prehistoric mound settlements were abandoned before the Bronze Age. A channel of the Çarşamba river once flowed between the two mounds, and the settlement was built on alluvial clay which may have been favourable for early agriculture.
The population of the eastern mound has been estimated at up to 10,000 people, but population totals likely varied over the community’s history. An average population of between 5,000 to 8,000 is a reasonable estimate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Çatalhöyük
 
Here is a list of towns and cities in Europe that were founded at least 3000 years ago (prior to 1000 BCE). The list is of course not exhaustive. Feel free to complete it if you have additional information. Abandonned/destroyed cities are ok too.

I have added the probable main haplogroup(s) of the people who founded the city.

  1. 7,000 BCE : Choirokoitia (Cyprus) => J2 and E1b1b
  2. 6,500 BCE : Sesklo (Thessaly, Greece) => E1b1b and J2 (and G2a ?)
  3. 6,000 BCE : Starčevo (Serbia) => E1b1b and J2
  4. 5,500 BCE : Pločnik (Serbia) => E1b1b and J2
  5. 5,000 BCE : Varna (Bulgaria) => E1b1b and J2
  6. 5,000 BCE : Hallstatt (Austria) => E1b1b and J2 (and I2b ?)
  7. 5,000 BCE : Bratislava (Slovakia) => E1b1b and J2 (and I2b ?)
  8. 4,800 BCE : Dimini (Thessaly, Greece) => E1b1b and J2 (and G2a ?)
  9. c. 4,500 BCE : Lerna (Peloponnese, Greece) => E1b1b, G2a and J2
  10. 4,500 BCE : Glauberg (Hesse, Germany) => E1b1b and J2 (and I2b ?)
  11. 4,000 BCE : Plovdiv (Bulgaria) => E1b1b and J2
  12. 4,000 BCE : Phaistos (Crete, Greece) => J2
  13. 3,900 BCE : Michelsberg (Baden, Germany) => E1b1b and J2 (and I2b ?)
  14. 3,800 BCE : Dobrovody (Ukraine) => I2a2, E1b1b and J2
  15. 3,700 BCE : Talianki (Ukraine) => I2a2, E1b1b and J2
  16. 3,700 BCE : Maydanets (Ukraine) => I2a2, E1b1b and J2
  17. 3,250 BCE : Kasenovka (Ukraine) => I2a2, E1b1b and J2
  18. 3,200 BCE : Skara Brae (Scotland) => I2b
  19. 3,000 BCE : Troy (Turkey) => R1b (and J2 ?)
  20. 3,000 BCE : Myrtos Pyrgos (Crete, Greece) => J2
  21. 3,000 BCE : Akrotiri (Cyprus) => J2 and E1b1b
  22. 3,000 BCE : Athens (Greece) => E1b1b, G2a, I2, J2
  23. 2,700 BCE : Knossos (Crete, Greece) => J2
  24. 2,500 BCE : Kastri, (Kythera, Greece) => J2
  25. 2,300 BCE : Gournia (Crete, Greece) => J2 (and R1b ?)
  26. 2,300 BCE : Manika (Euboea, Greece) => E1b1b, G2a and J2
  27. 2,000 BCE : Mantua (Italy) => E1b1b G2a, I2a
  28. 1,900 BCE : Mycenae (Greece) => R1a
  29. 1,900 BCE : Mallia (Crete, Greece) => J2 (and R1b ?)
  30. 1,900 BCE : Kato Zakros (Crete, Greece) => J2 (and R1b ?)
  31. 1,600 BCE : Hagia Triada (Crete, Greece) => J2 (and R1b ?)
  32. 1,600 BCE : Chania (Crete, Greece) => J2 (and R1b ?)
  33. 1,400 BCE : Larnaca (Cyprus) => J2 and E1b1b
  34. 1,300 BCE : Heuneburg (Württemberg, Germany) => R1b
  35. 1,200 BCE : Lisbon (Portugal) => I2 (?)
  36. 1,100 BCE : Cadiz (Spain) => J2, E1b1b, G2a
  37. 1,100 BCE : Chios (North Aegean, Greece) => J2, E1b1b (and R1b ?)
  38. 1,000 BCE : Würzburg (Bavaria, Germany) => R1b

The oldest towns outside the Aegean follow the Neolithic expansion of haplogroup E-V13 and J2 from Thessaly along the Danube basin (see map below). Unsurprisingly E-V13 is most commonly found from northern Greece to Serbia, with Kosovo peaking at 45% of the population. It reaches 19% in Macedonian Greeks, 23% in Albania, 24% in Serbia, and 40% in the Sesklo/Dimini region of Thessaly. ....

I find a bit of this stuff quite interesting but I'm afraid you lose me when you start talking about Haplogroups. I think most non-academics don't have a clue what a haplogroup is. Could you tell us about this stuff in language we can understand?
 
I find a bit of this stuff quite interesting but I'm afraid you lose me when you start talking about Haplogroups. I think most non-academics don't have a clue what a haplogroup is. Could you tell us about this stuff in language we can understand?

Wikipedia has a good explanation of what is a haplogroup. As for the history and ethnic connection for each paternal haplogroup you can read about that here.
 
Wikipedia has a good explanation of what is a haplogroup. As for the history and ethnic connection for each paternal haplogroup you can read about that here.

Wow! I just checked out that wikipage and I did not understand a word of it. I think I'd better back out right now, tail between my legs, and admit that perhaps genetics is a little beyond me. Apologies for wasting your time.
 
Plovdiv, Bulgaria

One way of measuring a city’s age is to note the number of names it has had. In the case of Plovdiv, the list begins with Eumolpias, changing to Philippoupolis when it was conquered by Philip II of Macedon (Alexander the Great’s father) in 342 BC. Centuries passed and Philippoupolis became Trimontium, then Philippoupolis again, then Paldin, Filibe and finally Plovdiv.

Plovdiv is Bulgaria’s second-largest city and one of Europe’s oldest – signs of urban activity there go back nearly 9,000 years.
 

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