Genetics of the Greek Peleponessus

Diomedes said:
Interesting article indeed. I do not understand the hate some people have though. It is well known that the peoples around the Mediterranean sea have many commonalities. This is expected, even the ancient Greek mythology talks about this.
Click to expand...
I totally agree. I'm baffled why people are not concentrated on commonalities and cooperation but mostly on differences and hate.
Welcome to Eupedia Diomedes.
 
Greeks, post your Eurogenes K36 scores or send me your GEDmatch kit numbers.

Then I will run this K36-based Oracle - with regional Greek populations - for you:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...e-my-results&p=4337714&viewfull=1#post4337714

Reference populations in this Oracle include (among other things):

GR_Peloponese
GR_Central
GR_Epirus
GR_Macedonia
GR_Ikaria
GR_Chios
GR_Kythera
GR_Andros
GR_Istanbul
GR_Pontic
GR_Crete
GR_Eubea
GR_Cyclades
GR_Kalymnos

Albania_North
Albania_South

Sicily_Messina
Sicily_Catania
Sicily_Trapani
Sicily_Ragusa
Sicily_Agrigento
Sicily_Palermo
Sicily_Caltanisetta
Sicily_Calabria

North_Italy
IT_Veneto

We are still expanding it, adding new reference samples. :) You can help us in expanding this Oracle by sending me GEDmatch kits or K36 scores of people + info about their geographical & ethnic origin.

People with mixed origin (ancestors from several different regions) will also be useful.
 
I can't see what the problems are with the paper. It deals with Peloponessian Greeks specifically not other Greeks and their supposed Slavic ancestry. Yes they have Slavic ancestry but it is minor and does not connect them to Russian, Belorussians or Poles except by using Sicilians are a doormat, similarly these Greeks are not connected to Levantines except when using Cypriots as an entrance. What that means is that those Greeks are Southern Europeans with some Slavic ancestry and some Near Eastern ancestry but not enough to sift them closer to West and East Slavic groups or Near Easterners.

Tomenable you can run mine. I am not Greek but I was born in Malta of that ethnic group, the Sicilians should do. A829596, enjoy.
 
Ponto said:
Tomenable you can run mine. I am not Greek but I was born in Malta of that ethnic group, the Sicilians should do. A829596, enjoy.
Click to expand...
Thanks!

Your results (it seems that Least-square is more accurate for you, for some other people Gaussian is more accurate):

36 components mode.
Population data has been read. 169 populations found.
Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
Person: Ponto.txt
Threshold of components set to 0,25%


Least-squares method:


Using 1 population approximation:
1 GR_Crete @ 7,2103
2 IT_Calabria @ 7,532387
3 Askhenazi @ 7,749383
4 GR_Ikaria @ 7,893593
5 Sicily_Catania @ 7,932873
6 Gr_Chios @ 8,127376
7 Sicily_Palermo @ 8,608854
8 Gr_Kalymnos @ 8,67463
9 Sicily_Agrigento @ 8,86955
10 Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 8,894828
11 Sicily_Trapani @ 9,14557
12 Sicily_Messina @ 9,164809
13 Gr_Andros @ 9,348261
14 GR_Kythera @ 9,385857
15 Sicily_Ragusa @ 9,399389
16 GR_Cyclades @ 9,904955
17 Ashkenazi_Eastern_Euro @ 10,057388
18 GR_Pontic @ 12,481887
19 GR_Peloponese2 @ 12,503601
20 Cyprus @ 12,847759
169 iterations.


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 GR_Crete+Askhenazi @ 6,734663
2 GR_Ikaria+Askhenazi @ 6,749652
3 IT_Calabria+Askhenazi @ 6,815669
4 Sicily_Catania+GR_Crete @ 6,872305
5 IT_Calabria+GR_Crete @ 6,902947
6 Sicily_Palermo+GR_Crete @ 6,991024
7 Sicily_Catania+Askhenazi @ 7,061382
8 Gr_Chios+Askhenazi @ 7,122052
9 Sicily_Agrigento+GR_Crete @ 7,126335
10 Sicily_Caltanisetta+GR_Crete @ 7,127174
11 Gr_Kalymnos+Askhenazi @ 7,182377
12 GR_Crete+GR_Crete @ 7,2103
13 Sicily_Trapani+GR_Crete @ 7,226868
14 Sicily_Agrigento+GR_Ikaria @ 7,252398
15 Sicily_Messina+GR_Crete @ 7,25857
16 IT_Calabria+GR_Ikaria @ 7,266391
17 GR_Ikaria+GR_Crete @ 7,297007
18 Sicily_Catania+GR_Ikaria @ 7,310207
19 Gr_Chios+GR_Crete @ 7,311828
20 Albania_North+Cyprus @ 7,346071
14365 iterations.


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Sicily_Catania +25% GR_Istanbul +25% Cyprus @ 5,962292
2 50% IT_Calabria +25% GR_Istanbul +25% Cyprus @ 6,18459
3 50% Sicily_Palermo +25% GR_Istanbul +25% Cyprus @ 6,203896
4 50% Sicily_Agrigento +25% GR_Istanbul +25% Cyprus @ 6,214216
5 50% Sicily_Trapani +25% GR_Istanbul +25% Cyprus @ 6,337028
6 50% Sicily_Catania +25% GR_Istanbul +25% Syria_Liban @ 6,351826
7 50% Cyprus +25% Albania_North +25% Askhenazi @ 6,362344
8 50% Askhenazi +25% Albania_North +25% Cyprus @ 6,368088
9 50% IT_Calabria +25% Albania_North +25% Syria_Liban @ 6,376295
10 50% Askhenazi +25% GR_Istanbul +25% Cyprus @ 6,403051
11 50% Sicily_Caltanisetta +25% GR_Istanbul +25% Cyprus @ 6,409792
12 50% Sicily_Catania +25% Albania_North +25% Syria_Liban @ 6,416593
13 50% Sicily_Messina +25% GR_Istanbul +25% Cyprus @ 6,435859
14 50% IT_Calabria +25% GR_Istanbul +25% Jordan @ 6,45828
15 50% Sicily_Catania +25% GR_Istanbul +25% Jordan @ 6,473686
16 50% IT_Calabria +25% GR_Istanbul +25% Syria_Liban @ 6,476226
17 50% Sicily_Catania +25% GR_Istanbul +25% Samaritan @ 6,480416
18 50% Cyprus +25% Sicily_Palermo +25% Albania_North @ 6,520668
19 50% Cyprus +25% Sicily_Agrigento +25% Albania_North @ 6,538867
20 50% Cyprus +25% Sicily_Trapani +25% GR_Istanbul @ 6,578124
1261641 iterations.


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Sicily_Catania+GR_Istanbul+Askhenazi+Cyprus @ 5,947003
2 Sicily_Catania+Sicily_Agrigento+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 5,955709
3 Sicily_Catania+Sicily_Catania+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 5,962292
4 Sicily_Catania+Sicily_Palermo+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,023538
5 Sicily_Catania+IT_Calabria+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,024005
6 IT_Calabria+GR_Istanbul+Askhenazi+Cyprus @ 6,052993
7 Sicily_Catania+Sicily_Trapani+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,074722
8 Sicily_Catania+GR_Istanbul+Albania_North+Samaritan @ 6,080229
9 Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Calabria+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,082557
10 Sicily_Catania+Sicily_Caltanisetta+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,10207
11 Sicily_Palermo+IT_Calabria+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,112445
12 Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Catania+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,126987
13 Sicily_Palermo+GR_Istanbul+Askhenazi+Cyprus @ 6,129767
14 Sicily_Agrigento+Sicily_Palermo+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,139736
15 Sicily_Trapani+GR_Istanbul+Askhenazi+Cyprus @ 6,146787
16 Sicily_Agrigento+GR_Istanbul+Askhenazi+Cyprus @ 6,164613
17 Sicily_Trapani+IT_Calabria+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,169767
18 Sicily_Caltanisetta+IT_Calabria+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,182284
19 IT_Calabria+IT_Calabria+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,18459
20 Sicily_Messina+GR_Istanbul+Askhenazi+Cyprus @ 6,195545
21 Sicily_Palermo+Sicily_Palermo+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,203896
22 Sicily_Catania+GR_Istanbul+GR_Crete+Cyprus @ 6,206711
23 Sicily_Messina+IT_Calabria+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,208367
24 Sicily_Agrigento+Sicily_Agrigento+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,214216
25 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Agrigento+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,216714
26 Sicily_Catania+Sicily_Ragusa+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,21686
27 Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Agrigento+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,234341
28 Sicily_Agrigento+GR_Istanbul+GR_Crete+Cyprus @ 6,243297
29 Sicily_Palermo+GR_Istanbul+GR_Crete+Cyprus @ 6,245533
30 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Palermo+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,249109
31 IT_Calabria+GR_Istanbul+Albania_North+Samaritan @ 6,252833
32 Sicily_Agrigento+Sicily_Caltanisetta+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,253205
33 Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Palermo+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,253236
34 Sicily_Ragusa+GR_Istanbul+Askhenazi+Cyprus @ 6,259532
35 Sicily_Caltanisetta+GR_Istanbul+Askhenazi+Cyprus @ 6,261167
36 Sicily_Palermo+Sicily_Caltanisetta+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,273549
37 Sicily_Trapani+GR_Istanbul+GR_Crete+Cyprus @ 6,284
38 Sicily_Agrigento+GR_Ikaria+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,284773
39 Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Trapani+GR_Istanbul+Cyprus @ 6,290408
40 Sicily_Catania+GR_Cyclades+Albania_North+Samaritan @ 6,290944
6961930 iterations.


Gaussian method:
Noise dispersion set to 0,130062


Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 4,275761
2 Sicily_Messina @ 4,354861
3 Sicily_Trapani @ 4,374926
4 Sicily_Catania @ 4,42301
5 Sicily_Palermo @ 4,571761
6 Gr_Andros @ 4,658713
7 IT_Calabria @ 4,708461
8 Sicily_Agrigento @ 5,053071
9 Askhenazi @ 5,10174
10 GR_Crete @ 5,162542
11 Sicily_Ragusa @ 5,40961
12 Gr_Chios @ 5,455618
13 Ashkenazi_Eastern_Euro @ 5,975535
14 Gr_Eubea @ 6,977098
15 GR_Kythera @ 7,540902
16 Albania_South @ 7,664939
17 GR_Macedonia2 @ 7,82946
18 GR_Peloponese2 @ 7,902475
19 Albania_North @ 7,914712
20 GR_Cyclades @ 8,808431
169 iterations.


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 Sicily_Trapani+IT_Calabria @ 4,189254
2 Sicily_Caltanisetta+IT_Calabria @ 4,217901
3 Sicily_Trapani+Cyprus @ 4,236953
4 Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 4,261995
5 Sicily_Caltanisetta+Cyprus @ 4,26889
6 Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Trapani @ 4,273499
7 Sicily_Caltanisetta+Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 4,275761
8 Sicily_Catania+Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 4,32652
9 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 4,342543
10 Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Messina @ 4,354861
11 Sicily_Trapani+GR_Crete @ 4,362484
12 Sicily_Catania+Sicily_Trapani @ 4,364893
13 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani @ 4,374926
14 IT_Calabria+Gr_Andros @ 4,386195
15 Sicily_Trapani+Gr_Kalymnos @ 4,387341
16 Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Catania @ 4,394923
17 Sicily_Messina+Gr_Andros @ 4,405989
18 Sicily_Caltanisetta+GR_Crete @ 4,409015
19 Sicily_Catania+Sicily_Catania @ 4,42301
20 Sicily_Caltanisetta+Gr_Kalymnos @ 4,424976
14365 iterations.


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Sicily_Caltanisetta +25% Sicily_Caltanisetta +25% Cyprus @ 4,118969
2 50% Sicily_Caltanisetta +25% Sicily_Trapani +25% Cyprus @ 4,130241
3 50% Sicily_Trapani +25% Sicily_Trapani +25% Cyprus @ 4,134091
4 50% Sicily_Trapani +25% IT_Calabria +25% Cyprus @ 4,135139
5 50% Sicily_Trapani +25% Sicily_Caltanisetta +25% Cyprus @ 4,136336
6 50% Sicily_Trapani +25% Sicily_Messina +25% Cyprus @ 4,139058
7 50% Sicily_Trapani +25% Gr_Kalymnos +25% Samaritan @ 4,139066
8 50% Sicily_Trapani +25% IT_Calabria +25% Samaritan @ 4,151407
9 50% Sicily_Caltanisetta +25% Sicily_Messina +25% Cyprus @ 4,156922
10 50% Sicily_Trapani +25% GR_Kythera +25% Samaritan @ 4,162876
11 50% Sicily_Caltanisetta +25% IT_Calabria +25% Cyprus @ 4,172879
12 50% Sicily_Trapani +25% Sicily_Trapani +25% Samaritan @ 4,180381
13 50% Sicily_Trapani +25% IT_Calabria +25% IT_Calabria @ 4,189254
14 50% Sicily_Trapani +25% Sicily_Catania +25% Cyprus @ 4,19067
15 50% Sicily_Caltanisetta +25% Sicily_Catania +25% Cyprus @ 4,191194
16 50% Sicily_Trapani +25% Sicily_Caltanisetta +25% Samaritan @ 4,201883
17 50% Sicily_Trapani +25% Sicily_Messina +25% Samaritan @ 4,205949
18 50% IT_Calabria +25% Sicily_Trapani +25% Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 4,209944
19 50% Sicily_Messina +25% Sicily_Trapani +25% Cyprus @ 4,210935
20 50% Sicily_Trapani +25% Sicily_Catania +25% Samaritan @ 4,21116
2050496 iterations.


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Sicily_Caltanisetta+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Cyprus @ 4,118969
2 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Cyprus @ 4,130241
3 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+Cyprus @ 4,134091
4 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+IT_Calabria+Cyprus @ 4,135139
5 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Cyprus @ 4,136336
6 Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+Cyprus @ 4,139058
7 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+Gr_Kalymnos+Samaritan @ 4,139066
8 Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Cyprus @ 4,15008
9 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+IT_Calabria+Samaritan @ 4,151407
10 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Caltanisetta+IT_Calabria+Cyprus @ 4,156091
11 Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Cyprus @ 4,156922
12 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+GR_Kythera+Samaritan @ 4,162876
13 Sicily_Caltanisetta+Sicily_Caltanisetta+IT_Calabria+Cyprus @ 4,172879
14 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+Samaritan @ 4,180381
15 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+IT_Calabria+IT_Calabria @ 4,189254
16 Sicily_Catania+Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+Cyprus @ 4,19067
17 Sicily_Catania+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Cyprus @ 4,191194
18 Sicily_Catania+Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Cyprus @ 4,191863
19 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Caltanisetta+IT_Calabria+Samaritan @ 4,193581
20 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Gr_Kalymnos+Samaritan @ 4,196605
21 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Samaritan @ 4,201883
22 Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+Samaritan @ 4,205949
23 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Caltanisetta+IT_Calabria+IT_Calabria @ 4,209944
24 Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Trapani+Cyprus @ 4,210935
25 Sicily_Catania+Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+Samaritan @ 4,21116
26 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Samaritan @ 4,213803
27 Sicily_Caltanisetta+Sicily_Caltanisetta+IT_Calabria+IT_Calabria @ 4,217901
28 Sicily_Caltanisetta+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Sicily_Caltanisetta+IT_Calabria @ 4,21913
29 Sicily_Caltanisetta+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Samaritan @ 4,222077
30 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Palermo+Cyprus @ 4,222502
31 Sicily_Palermo+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Cyprus @ 4,225602
32 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+Gr_Kalymnos+Cyprus @ 4,225797
33 Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Trapani+IT_Calabria @ 4,225981
34 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Palermo+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Cyprus @ 4,226351
35 Sicily_Catania+Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Samaritan @ 4,230666
36 Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Caltanisetta+Sicily_Caltanisetta+IT_Calabria @ 4,231289
37 Sicily_Caltanisetta+Sicily_Caltanisetta+IT_Calabria+Samaritan @ 4,231381
38 Sicily_Trapani+IT_Calabria+GR_Pontic+Samaritan @ 4,231928
39 Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Caltanisetta+GR_Kythera+Samaritan @ 4,232461
40 Sicily_Messina+Sicily_Trapani+Sicily_Caltanisetta+IT_Calabria @ 4,233385
25802158 iterations.

======================

So your ancestors are ethnic Greeks who came to Malta? Do you know what regional group of Greeks they are?
 
Tomenable said:
Greeks, post your Eurogenes K36 scores or send me your GEDmatch kit numbers.

Then I will run this K36-based Oracle - with regional Greek populations - for you:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...e-my-results&p=4337714&viewfull=1#post4337714

Reference populations in this Oracle include (among other things):

GR_Peloponese
GR_Central
GR_Epirus
GR_Macedonia
GR_Ikaria
GR_Chios
GR_Kythera
GR_Andros
GR_Istanbul
GR_Pontic
GR_Crete
GR_Eubea
GR_Cyclades
GR_Kalymnos

Albania_North
Albania_South

Sicily_Messina
Sicily_Catania
Sicily_Trapani
Sicily_Ragusa
Sicily_Agrigento
Sicily_Palermo
Sicily_Caltanisetta
Sicily_Calabria

North_Italy
IT_Veneto

We are still expanding it, adding new reference samples. :) You can help us in expanding this Oracle by sending me GEDmatch kits or K36 scores of people + info about their geographical & ethnic origin.

People with mixed origin (ancestors from several different regions) will also be useful.
Click to expand...
I see a Sicily_Calabria who means nothing, Calabria is another region. Anyway are those samples really reliable?are they used from a peer-rewieved study or just unknown GEDmatch-ones?
 
Yeah, it is actually IT_Calabria, not Sicily_Calabria.

I don't think that peer-reviewed studies go into such detail when it comes to micro-regional breakdown.

or just unknown GEDmatch-ones?
Click to expand...

GEDmatch ones, but well-known ones (people who report their ancestry from these parts of the island).
 
Italian peer-rewieved studies divided Italy into regions and regions into provinces. So yes, they are a lot detailed and more than GEDmatch.
 
Tomenable said:
Yeah, it is actually IT_Calabria, not Sicily_Calabria.

I don't think that peer-reviewed studies go into such detail when it comes to micro-regional breakdown.

GEDmatch ones, but well-known ones (people who report their ancestry from these parts of the island).
Click to expand...

Micro-regional breakdown based on what? On Sikeliot's samples? Are you kidding us? C'mon, on GEDmatch there are no informations about the province of origin. If you don't speak Italian, and none of you does, it's very hard to find the real origin of a GEDmatch kit.

You're using GEDmatch kits found with the one-to-many, your samples obviously lack accuracy. Not by coincidence you're doing that on the Apricity, one of the least reliable forum.

If someone wants to go into such detail, into a micro-regional breakdown, he should be much more accurate than usual, but you are doing exactly the opposite.
 
The only thing to get accurate information on GEDmatch is to send them an email and ask where are from all their known ancestors.
 
Hauteville said:
Italian peer-rewieved studies divided Italy into regions and regions into provinces. So yes, they are a lot detailed and more than GEDmatch.
Click to expand...

If they uploaded their samples somewhere in the internet then we can download them, convert to format accepted by GEDmatch, upload, see what they score in Eurogenes K36 and add them to reference populations. But some genomes are not public. I wanted to add these 15 Western Poles from Human Origins, but these samples are not public:

http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2016/06/poles-in-new-human-origins-dataset.html

BTW:

This is Davidski's result (seems consistent with his mixed Baltic Polish + Western Polish origin):

http://bga101.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/eurogenes-k36-at-gedmatch.html

36 components mode.
Population data has been read. 169 populations found.
Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
Person: Davidski.txt
Threshold of components set to 0,25%

Least-squares method:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 PL_Mazovia_Podlachia @ 7,436507
2 Pl_Kashubians @ 7,538554
3 PL_average @ 7,846317
4 Russian_Bryansk @ 8,537448
5 PL_West_Beskid @ 8,954606
6 Belarusian_East @ 9,320142
7 Belarusian_Polesye @ 9,471687
8 Russian_Voronezh @ 10,156305
9 Russian_Don_Cossack @ 10,566169
10 Russian_Oryol @ 10,787786
11 Russian_Smolensk @ 10,951148
12 PL_Sudovia @ 11,050906
13 PL_Lesser_Poland @ 11,121274
14 Russian_Kursk @ 11,144745
15 PL_Upper_Silesia @ 11,288698
16 Ukrainian_West @ 11,536164
17 Russian_Center @ 11,71206
18 PL_Subcarpathia @ 12,077631
19 Ukrainian_East @ 12,241989
20 Russian_Meshtchyora @ 13,141305
169 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 PL_Sudovia+PL_West_Beskid @ 5,620053
2 Russian_Bryansk+PL_West_Beskid @ 6,266282
3 Lithuanian+PL_West_Beskid @ 6,486452
4 Latvian+PL_West_Beskid @ 6,810187
5 Russian_Bryansk+Pl_Kashubians @ 6,833668
6 Belarusian_East+PL_West_Beskid @ 6,849917
7 PL_Mazovia_Podlasie+Pl_Kashubians @ 6,88214
8 Pl_Kashubians+PL_West_Beskid @ 6,936759
9 PL_Mazovia_Podlasie+PL_West_Beskid @ 6,97595
10 Ukrainian_West+PL_Sudovia @ 7,121046
11 PL_average+PL_Sudovia @ 7,141337
12 Lithuanian+German_Prussia @ 7,174647
13 Pl_Kashubians+PL_Sudovia @ 7,257646
14 Belarusian_East+Pl_Kashubians @ 7,309865
15 Russian_Bryansk+PL_average @ 7,317851
16 Pl_Kashubians+PL_average @ 7,362327
17 Russian_Voronezh+PL_West_Beskid @ 7,405937
18 PL_Mazovia_Podlasie+PL_average @ 7,434186
19 PL_Mazovia_Podlasie+PL_Mazovia_Podlasie @ 7,436507
20 Russian_Novgorod_Pskov+PL_West_Beskid @ 7,438911
14365 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% PL_West_Beskid +25% Russian_Bryansk +25% PL_Sudovia @ 5,412205
2 50% PL_West_Beskid +25% Russian_Tver +25% PL_Sudovia @ 5,413913
3 50% PL_West_Beskid+25% Pl_Kashubians +25% PL_Sudovia @ 5,536346
4 50% PL_West_Beskid +25% Lithuanian +25% Pl_Kashubians @ 5,579993
5 50% PL_West_Beskid+25% Russian_Novgorod_Yaroslavl +25% PL_Sudovia @ 5,612813
6 50% PL_West_Beskid +25% Russian_Voronezh +25% PL_Sudovia @ 5,614329
7 50% PL_Sudovia +25% PL_West_Beskid +25% PL_West_Beskid @ 5,620053
8 50% PL_West_Beskid +25% Belarusian_East +25% PL_Sudovia @ 5,68815
9 50% PL_West_Beskid +25% Russian_Meshtchyora +25% PL_Sudovia @ 5,706588
10 50% PL_West_Beskid +25% PL_Mazovia_Podlasie +25% PL_Sudovia @ 5,720267
11 50% PL_West_Beskid +25% Lithuanian +25% PL_Sudovia @ 5,734397
12 50% Pl_Kashubians +25% PL_Sudovia +25% PL_West_Beskid @ 5,744897
(...)

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Russian_Bryansk+PL_Sudovia+PL_West_Beskid+PL_West_Beskid @ 5,412205
2 Russian_Tver+PL_Sudovia+PL_West_Beskid+PL_West_Beskid @ 5,413913
3 Pl_Kashubians+PL_Sudovia+PL_West_Beskid+PL_West_Beskid @ 5,536346
4 Lithuanian+Pl_Kashubians+PL_West_Beskid+PL_West_Beskid @ 5,579993
5 Russian_Bryansk+Pl_Kashubians+PL_Sudovia+PL_West_Beskid@ 5,59688
6 Russian_Novgorod_Yaroslavl+PL_Sudovia+PL_West_Beskid+PL_West_Beskid @ 5,612813
7 Russian_Voronezh+PL_Sudovia+PL_West_Beskid+PL_West_Beskid @ 5,614329
8 PL_Sudovia+PL_Sudovia+PL_West_Beskid+PL_West_Beskid @ 5,620053
(...)
 
Hauteville said:
The only thing to get accurate information on GEDmatch is to send them an email and ask where are from all their known ancestors.
Click to expand...

Not to mention, that actually many Sicilians have grandparents from different parts of the island. Does really exist someone who is fully from Palermo, Catania, Trapani? °_O
 
Pax Augusta said:
Not to mention, that actually many Sicilians have grandparents from different parts of the island. Does really exist someone who is fully from Palermo, Catania, Trapani? °_O
Click to expand...

Indeed, for example myself i've great-grandparents from Palermo, Catania, Ragusa, Messina. Modern Palermitans for example descendent from people all over Sicily and Mainland Italy.
 
Tomenable said:
If they uploaded their samples somewhere in the internet then we can download them and convert to format accepted by GEDmatch, upload on GEDmatch, see what they score in Eurogenes K36 and add them to reference populations. But some genomes are not public. For example I wanted to add these 15 Western Poles from Humna Origins, but these samples are not public:
Click to expand...

Tomenable, we are not dumb. The samples for Greece and Sicily are from Sikeliot, aka Portuguese Princess, the American guy who has spent the last 5 years harassing Italians on forums. What do I have to deduce?

"mlukas :Thanks to Sikeliot samples for Greece and Sicily those regions are modeled quite good."

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?207434-Eurogenes-K36-Oracle-my-results/page4


Hauteville said:
Indeed, for example myself i've great-grandparents from Palermo, Catania, Ragusa, Messina. Modern Palermitans for example descendent from people all over Sicily and Mainland Italy.
Click to expand...

A micro-regional breakdown, lol. They are so ridiculous.
 
I do not want to debate at all costs, but to have a Sicilian regional breakdown you need a large number of Sicilian sample with people who have 4/4 grandparents all born in the same province and city. And these Sicilian samples do not exist on Gedmatch because the majoirity of Sicilians on Gedmatch have grandparents from different Sicilian provinces. they represent Sicily as whole but not a specific area.
 
Why are you guys discussing Italian genetics and specifically micro-regional differences in Sicily on a thread about the genetics of the Peloponnesus? You're not even trying to connect that with similarities to the Peloponnesus. It just seems like the same old, same old from anthrofora. Cut it out.

@Tomenable,
Where have you been? Did you miss all the Boattini papers, or the papers that provided the samples from places like the Piemonte/Emilia border? A lot of the Italian papers specifically are trying to capture micro-regional differences, and they are ensuring the suitability of their samples by checking that all four grandparents are from the same area. Sometimes they even go further and cull for non-local surnames.

How can you possibly compare the reliability of results like those to data at gedmatch based on self-reporting, and especially in a country like Italy with so much recent internal migration? The same goes for Greece. That was a rhetorical question: you can't.

In my own area someone could say, perfectly correctly, that they're from northwestern Toscana, but they could have a mother from Calabria. Some Greek posters have already said they have grandparents from various parts of Greece and even Anatolia. It's ridiculous to imagine, imo, that you could use gedmatch samples for this purpose.

Now, let's get back on topic.
 
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Well dividing Sicily into so many subregions is a bit of a stretch.

We could just make one "Sicily" reference population instead. :)

But Sikeliot wanted to see how different parts of Sicily plot.
 
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I often have detailed info about ancestry of these people. For example my "PL_West_Beskid" reference is one person so far (most reference populations are between 10 and 100 people, only a few are single persons).

One person, but 31 out of his 32 g-g-great-grandparents are from the same region.
 
Tomenable said:
Well dividing Sicily into so many subregions is a bit of a stretch.

We could just make one "Sicily" reference population instead. :)

But Sikeliot wanted to see how different parts of Sicily plot.
Click to expand...

No, now that he's found that half of his 100,000 posts are worthless because of the study on the genetics of the Peloponnesus and a comparison of those genomes with ones from Sicily, he wants to try to save the other half of his posts, the ones on regionality within Sicily.

If someone wants to compare the different areas of Sicily there are academic samples from various areas. Contact the authors and ask if the genomes are publicly available or can be made publicly available, or, at the least, contact gedmatch testees by e-mail if that's possible, and try to ascertain if all four grandparents are from one area. It's not as good as checking records, but it's better than what's being proposed here. Oh, and I wouldn't trust the results unless I saw the documentation for those e-mails, especially since one of the people involved is of proven mendacity. I'm sure you know or are learning about impeached witnesses and the effect on credibility.

Of course, you can do as you wish. Just don't expect people to give it very high reliability.
 
The creator of the MDLP calculator seems to have the academic regional Sicilian samples. Perhaps he could provide them, or at least indicate where he go them so the source could be contacted.

I'd still advise, however, against drawing any dogmatic conclusions. In places around Messina, for example, the dna would come from all over Sicily because large parts of it were destroyed by earthquake and people from all over Sicily re-populated it. You have to know something of the history of different areas to draw intelligent conclusions.
 
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