Genetics of the Greek Peleponessus

Jovialis said:
Better yet, why don't you explain why this history supports this genetic study. Is that your intention?
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This study did not include the Albanians who later according to the historical documents became the bulk of the population in Peloponnese. Some Slavonians were replaced with Greeks and Anatolians. Black Death killed 40% to 70% of Byzantium which is why Arvanites were called to recolonise Morea.
A better question would be why they did NOT test Southern Slavs, Vlachs and Albanians.
 
ihype02 said:
This study did not include the Albanians who later according to the historical documents became the bulk of the population in Peloponnese. Some Slavonians were replaced with Greeks and Anatolians. Black Death killed 40% to 70% of Byzantium which is why Arvanites were called to recolonise Morea.
A better question would be why they did NOT test Southern Slavs, Vlachs and Albanians.
Click to expand...

You may be interested in reading this article.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-01802-4

The Mediterranean shores stretching between Sicily, Southern Italy and the Southern Balkans witnessed a long series of migration processes and cultural exchanges. Accordingly, present-day population diversity is composed by multiple genetic layers, which make the deciphering of different ancestral and historical contributes particularly challenging. We address this issue by genotyping 511 samples from 23 populations of Sicily, Southern Italy, Greece and Albania with the Illumina GenoChip Array, also including new samples from Albanian- and Greek-speaking ethno-linguistic minorities of Southern Italy. Our results reveal a shared Mediterranean genetic continuity, extending from Sicily to Cyprus, where Southern Italian populations appear genetically closer to Greek-speaking islands than to continental Greece. Besides a predominant Neolithic background, we identify traces of Post-Neolithic Levantine- and Caucasus-related ancestries, compatible with maritime Bronze-Age migrations. We argue that these results may have important implications in the cultural history of Europe, such as in the diffusion of some Indo-European languages. Instead, recent historical expansions from North-Eastern Europe account for the observed differentiation of present-day continental Southern Balkan groups. Patterns of IBD-sharing directly reconnect Albanian-speaking Arbereshe with a recent Balkan-source origin, while Greek-speaking communities of Southern Italy cluster with their Italian-speaking neighbours suggesting a long-term history of presence in Southern Italy.
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Yetos said:
Curius cat

a question for you,

by what you DNA you give Myceneans?

by Y-Dna
by autosomals?
by What?

The papper of Lazrides is clear,
Myceneans are close to Minoans
and since that is correct,
then Albanians must be close to Cretans, !!!!!
are they?

So how come with what criteria,
you found that Albanians are Myceneans?

can you explain what your criteria on what you call Mycenean?

At least can you give the Mycenean Y and Mt DNA?

cause I have Mycenean mtDNA

9006 9010 9033 9041 were are shown more than mt and YDna?

in fact Minoan shows more European mt than Mycenean which shows more minor Asian/caucasian mt

Only J2axxx is found at Myceneans and Minoans
in fact the Y-Dna fits exactly with today % of Crete
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These scores are based on proportions obtained from a gedmatch calculator. They don't mean much. It would be cool if someone created a calculator that actually compares your genome to Mycenaeans and other ancients, but even that shouldn't be taken literally since a lot of south Europeans have shared ancestry with them.
 
ihype02 said:
This study did not include the Albanians who later according to the historical documents became the bulk of the population in Peloponnese. Some Slavonians were replaced with Greeks and Anatolians. Black Death killed 40% to 70% of Byzantium which is why Arvanites were called to recolonise Morea.
A better question would be why they did NOT test Southern Slavs, Vlachs and Albanians.
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ihype black death stroke at 1240 or at 1400?
 
ihype02 said:
In the middle of 14th century.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death
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man what is interesting is this

Arbanites existed to Sterea from the time of Ducchy of Athens,
at Theba from around 1240 Ad by invitation of Latin rulers of 4rth crusade De la Roche family,
the title was Half baron of Theba
baronia de Teba

What is interesting?
Why Plague hit only the Greeks and not Arbanites?
at peloponese

Destroyed doctoras always shit happens,
and if the work is from the Academy of Athens, surely worths nothing,
cause the Arbanites who entered Peloponese
as I said enter around 1390 by license
and later at 1410 by Palaiologos emperor's license

So Arbanites Already Existed when plague stroke at S Greece, after 1340 and were already at the maximum around 1400.
what were they? Immune to black death?
Besides
Plague is also connected with Crusaders and stroke Adriatic coasts more than Greece (Dubrovnik)

so the theory you provide, even written by a Greek seems to be just an Hypothesis

man plz

it is just silly to say that Greeks died of plague
and Arbanites were immune
so they invite them to 'empty land',
 
Yetos said:
man what is interesting is this

Arbanites existed to Sterea from the time of Ducchy of Athens,
at Theba from around 1240 Ad by invitation of Latin rulers of 4rth crusade De la Roche family,
the title was Half baron of Theba
baronia de Teba

What is interesting?
Why Plague hit only the Greeks and not Arbanites?
at peloponese

Destroyed doctoras always shit happens,
and if the work is from the Academy of Athens, surely worths nothing,
cause the Arbanites who entered Peloponese
as I said enter around 1390 by license
and later at 1410 by Palaiologos emperor's license

So Arbanites Already Existed when plague stroke at S Greece, after 1340 and were already at the maximum around 1400.
what were they? Immune to black death?
Besides
Plague is also connected with Crusaders and stroke Adriatic coasts more than Greece (Dubrovnik)

so the theory you provide, even written by a Greek seems to be just an Hypothesis

man plz

it is just silly to say that Greeks died of plague
and Arbanites were immune
so they invite them to 'empty land',
Click to expand...

And the study says that South Italians and Peleponese are 85-96 percent alike, genetically. If the Peleponese are Albanian replacements, that would lead to South Italians being 85-96 percent like Albanians (which sounds very unrealistic).
 
Yetos said:
man what is interesting is this

Arbanites existed to Sterea from the time of Ducchy of Athens,
at Theba from around 1240 Ad by invitation of Latin rulers of 4rth crusade De la Roche family,
the title was Half baron of Theba
baronia de Teba

What is interesting?
Why Plague hit only the Greeks and not Arbanites?
at peloponese

Destroyed doctoras always shit happens,
and if the work is from the Academy of Athens, surely worths nothing,
cause the Arbanites who entered Peloponese
as I said enter around 1390 by license
and later at 1410 by Palaiologos emperor's license

So Arbanites Already Existed when plague stroke at S Greece, after 1340 and were already at the maximum around 1400.
what were they? Immune to black death?
Besides
Plague is also connected with Crusaders and stroke Adriatic coasts more than Greece (Dubrovnik)

so the theory you provide, even written by a Greek seems to be just an Hypothesis

man plz

it is just silly to say that Greeks died of plague
and Arbanites were immune
so they invite them to 'empty land',
Click to expand...

Arbanites were called to recolonise the Southren Greece I never said they were immune to Black Death or anything.
 
ihype02 said:
Arbanites were called to recolonise the Southren Greece I never said they were immune to Black Death or anything.
Click to expand...

Νo

Arvanites were called to support de la Roche, at Theba
Then Aragons (Catalan Corporation) allow them enter Attica,
and then Byzantines allow them to pass Isthmos.
much much later than the plague,
Palaiologos invited them 1fter the plague,
and at 1460 at Venician castles were 10 000
considering child per family that time we speak about 1500 families,
all these until late 1700, then we have different situations
 
Venetian Chronicles estimate 30,000 Albanian men of army in 15th century. Albanians became so numerous that they revolted to expell the Greek speakers:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Bua

A Venetian chronicler (Stefano Magno) records that "30,000 Albanian inhabitants in the mountains" of Peloponnese rose against the despot Thomas in 1453. In 1455 the Signory authorized the settlement of more Albanians in its Messenian colony.
Source:https://books.google.com/books?id=G...ved=0ahUKEwiAqvrgyOXVAhWubZoKHYNOBboQ6AEINzAF
 
Angela said:
You asked if I have proof or it's just speculation. I answered you: I have the proof, seen with my own eyes, so it's not opinion, it's fact. He's a racist of the worst kind. Period and end of story.
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He seems to be butt-hurt that Eastern Europeans have some Mongoloid ancestry. His attitude and calculators stem from this I bet.
 
Last edited:
albanians are the best. myceneans were albanians , dorians were albanians , pelasgians were albanians, etruscans were albanians, illyrians were albanians.The roman army was based on albanian soldiers, and so did the ottoman army.The only reason that albania is a poor state that has not ever accomplished nothing is because everyone hates them and is racist towards them, because they do not actually want to admit their superiority.Are we ok now? can we go back to the genetics of the myceneans?
 
spartan owl said:
albanians are the best. myceneans were albanians , dorians were albanians , pelasgians were albanians, etruscans were albanians, illyrians were albanians.The roman army was based on albanian soldiers, and so did the ottoman army.The only reason that albania is a poor state that has not ever accomplished nothing is because everyone hates them and is racist towards them, because they do not actually want to admit their superiority.Are we ok now? can we go back to the genetics of the myceneans?
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well said
I asgree
 
Angela said:
A theory which has been disproved by genetics should not be convincing to any rational person.
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This is not a proper scientific work. It is full of ommits and manipulations.
The intentions are more than obvious. Clearly a baised work for political agenda.
 
ihype02 said:
This is not a proper scientific work. It is full of ommits and manipulations.
The intentions are more than obvious. Clearly a baised work for political agenda.
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The only thing that's obvious is that you either don't understand the science of genetics or you are denying it because it doesn't support your agenda.

There's no room here for anit-intellectual drivel. If you have the capacity, show where the science is wrong. Otherwise, I'm not interested, and neither are the vast majority of people on this site.

I don't know which of our banned Albanian members you are, but I will check the IPO addresses. If you're using the same one, you're out of here forthwith.
 
I gave my explanation in my earlier posts.
As for others, Ottoman censuses back those documents up. I highly doubt if several writers were "fooled" by the same "dream" over and over again.
But hey maybe that is how Byzantine and Venetian authorities work.
 
ihype02 said:
I gave my explanation in my earlier posts.
As for others, Ottoman censuses back those documents up. I highly doubt if several writers were "fooled" by the same "dream" over and over again.
But hey maybe that is how Byzantine and Venetian authorities work.
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ihype02 said:
It is not rape when you like it.
Click to expand...
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...rape-fantasies?p=517129&viewfull=1#post517129


http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34454-Origin-of-Grikos-(Southern-Italy)


Uh, yea, you're not a *****.

:rolleyes:

Get a life.
 
Hi to all, back from vacations!

I dont like the political part over this topic.

Scientifically speaking I do observe a red light from the PCI map: in no other map of such a kind is Greece-France-Russia on a line. Generally the map of Europe would appear (geographical). IMO it is an indication that some principal component is not available among the data.

I suppose that the missing balkans is a major drawback of the paper. Was reading to find out why it was left out but it was not addressed in the paper.

Is it bias (volontary or not)? well I dont know.

BUT: if someone would have left out Sicily and southern Italy outside of the data, and included the balkans only - I suppose could easily prof the opposite of tge paper.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Eupedia Forum mobile app
 
Greeks are Greek.
 
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