Celtic - Serbian parallels

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unless i misread the book, it says the name of scordisci came from the scordus mountains of modern day macedonia. It was use as a meeting place for the failed celtic invasion of greece, the remaining celtic tribes that particpated in the invasion renamed themselves Scordisci..........I cannot remember what they where previously called.

then again, you scor meaning might make sense as well.......encampment or ceased to exist as original named tribes

Well, that would make sense. Perhaps "Scordus" can be thought of as "encampmentous mountain".

Regarding previous name, the other tribes that participated in the invasion were the Boii/Boji (later called the Tolisto-Boɣi in Anatolia), the Volcae (specifically the Volcae Tectosages who also migrated into southern Gaul) as well as the Trocmii.
 
hair | *blawi- (?) | plav (fair haired, otherwise word means blue color)
hair | *doklo | dlaka (hair - not as a whole but as one thread of it)
haste | *britso | brzo (fast)
haunch | *kostā- (??) | kost (bone)
healthy | *jakko | jako (strong, healthy)
heat | *gʷritu | goreti (to burn)
herb, plant | *lustu- | list (leaf)
hill | *brendo- (?) | brdo
hips | *akraitsā- | kraci (legs)
hit | *toraw- (?) | udara
hold | *derk- (??) | drži (hold), direk (riser, post, column)
horse | *ekwo | konj
horse | *kaballo | kobila (female horse)
horsehair | *rauno- (??) | runo (fleece, wool)
host | *dāmā-, *dāmo | dom (home)
host | *sloug-eto- (?) | sluga (servant), služiti (to serve)
hurry | *sφisk | spiskati (to spend stg. valuable e.g. money in a hurry, too fast)
illness | *balo | bolest
insult | *makljo- (?), *tambal- (?) | makljati (to beat), tamburati (to beat) - both are kind of slang words
jump | *skak | skok
knee | *kʷenno-glīno- | koleno
know | *gnā- (?) | znati
know | *weid | vid-eti (to see), vid (vision)
lament |*φari-kan-e | narikanje
 
Well, that would make sense. Perhaps "Scordus" can be thought of as "encampmentous mountain".

Regarding previous name, the other tribes that participated in the invasion were the Boii/Boji (later called the Tolisto-Boɣi in Anatolia), the Volcae (specifically the Volcae Tectosages who also migrated into southern Gaul) as well as the Trocmii.
thus, there are examples of tribal names that are prefix before Boii

what does Tolisto mean?

Ser - typically means "head", "main"...
Ser-Boii would be for Boii stg. like "Royal Scythians" were for Scythians
 
thus, there are examples of tribal names that are prefix before Boii

what does Tolisto mean?

Yes, but it's the only example I've seen so far. The phrase "Boio-" as a prefix is fairly common however (Boio-durum, Boio-rix, etc.) And I have not seen any satisfying etymology yet for "Tolisto-".

perhaps this from the proto-celtic table:
*(φ)listo-

Ser - typically means "head", "main"...
Ser-Boii would be for Boii stg. like "Royal Scythians" were for Scythians

There's no reason to assume that's the etymology.

"Boii" derives from the word for "cattle". Compare PIE "gwous", consider that PIE *gw yields *b in Celtic (*g in Slavic). Cognates actually exist in Slavic:

Czech Hovězí ("ox")
Croatian Goveče ("ox")
Slovenian Govedo ("cattle")
Bulgarian Govedo ("ox")

Even if it was a borrowing, how and why does the o dissappear (ie "Boii" -> "Bi")? I think you're following a false trail here (well, I've been thinking that all along anyways). The Boii were also long since gone when the Slavic peoples showed up in the Balkans.
 
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Yes, but it's the only example I've seen so far. The phrase "Boio-" as a prefix is fairly common however (Boio-durum, Boio-rix, etc.) And I have not seen any satisfying etymology yet for "Tolisto-".

perhaps this from the proto-celtic table:
*(φ)listo-



There's no reason to assume that's the etymology.

"Boii" derives from the word for "cattle". Compare PIE "gwous", consider that PIE *gw yields *b in Celtic (*g in Slavic). Cognates actually exist in Slavic:

Czech Hovězí ("ox")
Croatian Goveče ("ox")
Slovenian Govedo ("cattle")
Bulgarian Govedo ("ox")
Serbian "vo" = ox

Even if it was a borrowing, how and why does the o dissappear (ie "Boii" -> "Bi")? I think you're following a false trail here (well, I've been thinking that all along anyways). The Boii were also long since gone when the Slavic peoples showed up in the Balkans.

you assume Slavic people came from east, but Serbs are recorded to have arrived from land they call in their language Boika and that by description matches only Bohemia/Bavaria both named by Boii... historical source says Serbs have also originally dwellt there, while we know that Boii are people who have originally dwellt there and that area is named after them...

in fact, not just I2a2, I would not be surprised if all I2 origins from Bohemia....I2b developed among those who spread to north, I2a1 among those who spread to south, I2a2 among those who spread to east..... thus I2a of Kurds is I2a2...
all of them are Cimmerians or Gomer
but the ones who spread to north (I2b) kept the name, while the ones who spread to south (I2a1) and east (I2a2) took name whose root is Sard/Sarb/Kurd
modern Serbs may origin from Serdi - who are thracanized branch of Scordisci... (thracans being ancestors of russians)

Boii in Slavic languages means "battle" and is in base of many words related to war
voj-nik = soldier, vojvoda = battle leader
interestingly, iapetoc relates origin of word serb to soldier as well...
similar holds for German (originally I2b people) tribal name...

btw. I find it peculiar that north part of Serbia is named Vojvodina, which maps to Boii being more towards north along Danube than Scordisci

my proposal is that Scordisci are related to Boii or same as Boii and that they origin in Bohemia... than they spread along Danube and around Black sea and entered Asia minor in several ways: first as Sherdana, later as Cimmerians, than as Serdi... today from those I2a people tribal name remains are preserved in nation names such as Kurds, Serbs, Sarbans and Sardinians....

the spread of Serians went all the way to northwest China, Caspian highlands and Red sea, which we know from writings of Seneca....

I think that those people were I2a2....

R1a pre-Baltic people lived in Dacia and R1a pre-Slavic as Thracians (essentially wrongly written word Russians written in Greek way...note that ancient Greek spelling system also turned in similar example Rasena into Tyrsenians), Pannonians, Veneti

in my opinion, Cimmerians were I2 people and Sherdana, Scordisci, Serdi were I2a
they were probably PIE people.... split between I2b, I2a1 and I2a2 Cimmerians gave Germanic, italic and east Celtic speakers...
ancient authors suggest that word German meant "seed" and was used to denote original Celts.... Josephus is sure that original Celts are Cimmerians/Cappadocians....Strabo records Cappadocians as whiteSyrians...additional reason to argue original Celts were I2 people is for instance lack of R1b in north Africa while I2a1 is widely present, while Celts are recorded to live in Africa, Asia and Europe...who are they in north Africa if not Garamantes, advanced civilization that with irrigation systems turned Sahara into agricultural area, whose capital Germa is near town Seba?
 
you assume Slavic people came from east, but Serbs are recorded to have arrived from land they call in their language Boika and that by description matches only Bohemia/Bavaria both named by Boii... historical source says Serbs have also originally dwellt there, while we know that Boii are people who have originally dwellt there and that area is named after them...

Yes, there's every reason to assume the Slavs came from the east because there is no evidence whatsoever for them in the area you consider:

Tacitus (late 1st century AD) in his Germania (chapter XXVIII) states that two Gaulish tribes, the Helveti and the Boii - once dominated the Hercynian Forest. He also states that the term "Boiemum" ("Boio-haemum" - "Boii home") has survived despite the population has changed. In chapter XLII, Tacitus also states that the Germanic Marcomanni occupy now the territory formerly occupied by the Boii.

Strabo (early 1st century AD) in his geography Book VII, chapter 2 states that the Boii were ravaged by the Cimbri during their migration. Strabo also mentions (in Book VII chapter 1) "Boiohaemum" being occupied "now" (in his time) by the Germanic Marcomanni.

Ptolemy (2nd century AD) in his Geography (Book 2, chapter 10) also mentions the Marcomanni in the region.

The Cimbrian War was in the late 2nd century BC. It stands to reason that the region was Celtic before, and became Germanicized in the wake of that event. It's clear though that there were basically no more Boii in Bohemia by the 1st century AD.

The Marcomanni dominated Bohemia certainly until the Markomannic Wars (late 2nd century AD), but more probably until later into the early migrations period (5th century AD). In the 6th century or so, the Czechs arrived in the region.

So if the Serbians ever were in Bohemia (which I find quite dubious), they cannot arrived there before the 5th century in my opinion, and they certainly didn't "originally" dwell there.

I won't really bother to reply about the rest of this... "chromosomal tribalism", however...

ancient authors suggest that word German meant "seed" and was used to denote original Celts.... Josephus is sure that original Celts are Cimmerians/Cappadocians....Strabo records Cappadocians as whiteSyrians...additional reason to argue original Celts were I2 people is for instance lack of R1b in north Africa while I2a1 is widely present, while Celts are recorded to live in Africa, Asia and Europe...who are they in north Africa if not Garamantes, advanced civilization that with irrigation systems turned Sahara into agricultural area, whose capital Germa is near town Seba?

You can't be seriously claiming this nonsense, can you?!? :petrified:

As far as the Celtic-speaking people got (from the Algarve to Anatolia), there were no Celts in Africa. Also, I2a1 certainly isn't "widely resent", neither is R1b completely lacking. Stop making up such stuff.
 
Yes, but it's the only example I've seen so far. The phrase "Boio-" as a prefix is fairly common however (Boio-durum, Boio-rix, etc.) And I have not seen any satisfying etymology yet for "Tolisto-".

perhaps this from the proto-celtic table:
*(φ)listo-



There's no reason to assume that's the etymology.

"Boii" derives from the word for "cattle". Compare PIE "gwous", consider that PIE *gw yields *b in Celtic (*g in Slavic). Cognates actually exist in Slavic:

Czech Hovězí ("ox")
Croatian Goveče ("ox")
Slovenian Govedo ("cattle")
Bulgarian Govedo ("ox")

Even if it was a borrowing, how and why does the o dissappear (ie "Boii" -> "Bi")? I think you're following a false trail here (well, I've been thinking that all along anyways). The Boii were also long since gone when the Slavic peoples showed up in the Balkans.


hmmmm

could tolisto conncted with Doliche or Tolo ?
 
I think Serbs came from east with rest of Slavs, settled in Bavaria, and later some moved south.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Serbia

They lived not to far from white Croats and probably moved east and south in unison too.
They show as Belochrovates on this map:

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bia%C5%82a_Chorwacja


With Boii it might get interesting. It really goes nicely with slavic word boi (battle), till Bolshevik revolution the ruling class in Russia was called Boyars/Boiars. This link says that it originated in Bulgaria.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyar
 
With Boii it might get interesting. It really goes nicely with slavic word boi (battle), till Bolshevik revolution the ruling class in Russia was called Boyars/Boiars. This link says that it originated in Bulgaria.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyar

I think the boyar was used in Russia from 10th to 17th century. Peter the Great abolished the title. The word was also adopted in other non-Slavic languages like in Finnish pojar or in Lithuanian bajoras. According to my source the Bulgarians adopted the word from the Turkish language where boyar means a head of royal cavalry.
 
Interesting Dagne, Boyar might be old celtic title/world after all.
Looks like it has IE origin, boi, boy, battle. In slavic battle - bitva, fight - buika, go to fight- do boiu. In many instances b changed to V, and we have many words like war-voina, soldier-voiak, fighting-valka. (I used english-phonetics more than correct polish spelling :).
 
I think Serbs came from east with rest of Slavs, settled in Bavaria, and later some moved south.

Well, this is certainly a possibility. The reason I remain sceptical of that is the time frame. When could they have arrived/left? And, I wouldn't necessarily think Bavaria (there is, of course, also the question about the origin of the Bavarians themselves at that) but more probably Bohemia. Specifically because the Bavarians ("Baiovarii") themselves claimed to be from Bohemia originally.

They lived not to far from white Croats and probably moved east and south in unison too.
They show as Belochrovates on this map:

What I wonder on is what the Slavic usage of "white" there meant. But yes, it would seem very likely that the Serbs and the Croats travelled in unison.

With Boii it might get interesting. It really goes nicely with slavic word boi (battle), till Bolshevik revolution the ruling class in Russia was called Boyars/Boiars. This link says that it originated in Bulgaria.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyar

The Celtic tribal name is generally understood as derived from the Celtic word for "cattle" (thereby, possibly in the sense of "cattle owner"). Cognates even exist in modern Celtic languages (Irish "Bó" - "cow", Welsh "Buwch" - "cow", Breton "Buoc'h" - "cow").
 
I think Serbs came from east with rest of Slavs, settled in Bavaria, and later some moved south.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Serbia

They lived not to far from white Croats and probably moved east and south in unison too.
They show as Belochrovates on this map:

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bia%C5%82a_Chorwacja


With Boii it might get interesting. It really goes nicely with slavic word boi (battle), till Bolshevik revolution the ruling class in Russia was called Boyars/Boiars. This link says that it originated in Bulgaria.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyar


Are you serious?.........lets be logical about this. If the Boii was in italian lands between lombardy and tuscany ( called Romagna now.) and where called BOII and then they migrated to czech area and where called BOII , how then did this become some kind of serb word unless the serb where short of words.

In Italy , there celtic name meant
.Boii (Milk People) [next to Eridanus River (Po) Valley].
area in Bohemia was called Boiohaemum
 
Well, this is certainly a possibility. The reason I remain sceptical of that is the time frame. When could they have arrived/left? And, I wouldn't necessarily think Bavaria (there is, of course, also the question about the origin of the Bavarians themselves at that) but more probably Bohemia. Specifically because the Bavarians ("Baiovarii") themselves claimed to be from Bohemia originally.
bavarians where
Baiuoarii (Sacred Milk People)



What I wonder on is what the Slavic usage of "white" there meant. But yes, it would seem very likely that the Serbs and the Croats travelled in unison.
Doubt this very much


The Celtic tribal name is generally understood as derived from the Celtic word for "cattle" (thereby, possibly in the sense of "cattle owner"). Cognates even exist in modern Celtic languages (Irish "Bó" - "cow", Welsh "Buwch" - "cow", Breton "Buoc'h" - "cow").
bretons where the Britanni tribe (Cow Goddess People)
 
Are you serious?.........lets be logical about this. If the Boii was in italian lands between lombardy and tuscany ( called Romagna now.) and where called BOII and then they migrated to czech area and where called BOII , how then did this become some kind of serb word unless the serb where short of words.

Actually, the Boii are far more likely to have travelled from Bohemia into Italy, not vice versa. Bohemia was part of the original Celtic homeland, and the city of Bologna was originally Etruscan until it was taken by the Boii.

Besides, there were five locations where various branches of the Boii - at different times, of course - lived:
- Bohemia (their presumed original homeland, which was taken by the Marcomanni in the wake of the Cimbrian war)
- Northern Italy.
- Pannonia.
- The "Tolisto-Bogi" of Anatolia.
- There was another branch of Boii (probably remnants of the Bohemian Boii) which was mentioned by the Caesar to have fought alongside the Helvetians when they invaded Gaul.

In Italy , there celtic name meant
.Boii (Milk People) [next to Eridanus River (Po) Valley].
area in Bohemia was called Boiohaemum

"Milk people"? That's a very... loose... translation, no? :innocent:
 
I think you are fishing too much , All i read was that these are original slavic people
main slavs = Russia
western slavs = Poles
Southern slavs = Bulgars

Croats, serbs, slovenes, bosnians, montenegrians etc etc etc are still trying to define if they are slavs originally or not.

In regards to your veneti theory, sorry to say but the name Veneti was a Roman invented word from VENETUS which means a blue-green clour , the colour of the sea, they gave this name to many areas. latest I found was
Veniatia (Vinhais)Venetii (Sacred Salmon People)in Portugal

The adraitic veneti was a small tribe illyrian tribe surrounded by celtic people in the eastern part of veneto - the Brixii and the Euganei ( non celtic) and in the friuli area, by the carni.
I can give you all the tribes that spoke venetic but they where not veneti

In celtic tales the veneti where said to be
Veneti (Old Ones): situla at Cadore: Venetic: eik goltanos doto louderai kanei
Goltanos [The One-Eyed One] sacrificed this for the virgin Kanei [The Powerful]
 
Are you postitive because the veneti where neighbours of the Boii in Italy , but had disappeared when the Boii where in the czech area..............I better get to my books to confirm
 
Zanipolo, why do you bring up the Veneti here, anyways? I thought we were talking about the Boii?! :startled:
 
Because How and yes keeps bringing it up

I am glad to only bring up the Boii
 
Because How and yes keeps bringing it up

That's a point, he keeps doing that. And chromosomal tribalism. And according to him, about every ancient ethnic group was in fact Serbian! :LOL:

I am glad to only bring up the Boii

Alright. By the way, the main town of the Italian Boii, Bononia (modern-day Bologna) was previously an Etruscan city called Felsina.

There's also Livy's* annectdote about Bellovesus who purportedly led the Celtic/Gaulish invasion of northern Italy. He does get the tribes involved wrong, however, since he mentions tribes which did NOT settle in Italy (Bituriges, Arverni, Aedui, Ambarri, Carnutes and Aulerci), and omits tribes which actually verymuch did (Boii, Cenomani, Lingones). The only tribe he actually gets right are the Senones.

*Ab Urbe Condita, book 5, chapter 34.
 
Any info on this celtic tribe in Pannonia?
Apulli (Apple People of Apollo) [Latin: Pannonii] or
Arravisci / Eravisci (Snowdrop People) or
Cotini (Grain People)

The Cenomani (Clear Water People) was situated on the border of Lombardy and Veneto , they where around for a while.

The Boii was south of the Po river in Bologna as you say. Wiki says they where in Italy in 390BC, then went to the danube and later settled in Silesia Poland
 
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