Pharaoh Tutankhamun, Akhenaten and Amenhotep III were R1b

I think in a few years are going to have to throw the trash many current ideas about genetics, then nobody can use it at your convenience or you can ignore the obvious, nothing will have a good bit of face.
 
No, R1b1b2 is also common in Anatolia. According to the Indo-European migration theory, R1b1b2 originated either in Anatolia or around the Caucasus, then migrated to Europe, probably via the Pontic steppes. The Hittite invasion of Egypt is a well documented fact. It remains completely possible that the Indo-European Hittites created a new dynasty in Egypt.
European history has shown (e.g. Normans, Germanic invasions) that foreign invaders can set up new dynasties in the conquered land without having a substantial influence on the genetic pool of the conquered land. I think this is what could have happened in Egypt too.
Thank you for your answer Maciamo. So, the Hittites invasion may well be the reason for Egyptian Royals DNA.
Seems as though where ever one looks the DNA evidence is vindicating the old late 19th and early 20th century Aryan migration theories. I know most American scholars around 1910 were describing the conquest of our own "American West" as the last of the great Aryan migrations, perhaps they were more accurate than more recent scholars who use the Indo-European designation. Don't get me wrong here I'm not using the word Aryan in a 1930s German sense, but simply as a traditional name for a people who migrated from a particular geographic region, and into many other regions spreading their culture and perhaps their language. So perhaps now it would be more fitting and proper to drop the revisionist Indo-European designation for this people, and instead use the traditional and much simpler Aryan name in it's place.
 
Thank you for your answer Maciamo. So, the Hittites invasion may well be the reason for Egyptian Royals DNA.
Seems as though where ever one looks the DNA evidence is vindicating the old late 19th and early 20th century Aryan migration theories. I know most American scholars around 1910 were describing the conquest of our own "American West" as the last of the great Aryan migrations, perhaps they were more accurate than more recent scholars who use the Indo-European designation. Don't get me wrong here I'm not using the word Aryan in a 1930s German sense, but simply as a traditional name for a people who migrated from a particular geographic region, and into many other regions spreading their culture and perhaps their language. So perhaps now it would be more fitting and proper to drop the revisionist Indo-European designation for this people, and instead use the traditional and much simpler Aryan name in it's place.

I completely agree with you. :giggle:
 
@Maciamo

<sniff> You propably just deleted the funniest and most satirical passage of the whole forum... :-(
 
^
Las cadenas de la esclavitud solamente atan las manos: es la mente lo que hace al hombre libre o esclavo.


The chains of slavery only tie our hands: it is the mind that makes men free or slave.

Franz Grillparzer.
 
I completely agree with you. :giggle:

During the Renaissance astronomers who said that the earth orbited the sun were intimidated into silence. We too live in such an age. An age where belief is more important than scientific inquiry. I have great appreciation for all your research at this site. Your research into the migrations of ancient peoples has been very important for my own historical understanding. This DNA work has significance.
 
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Tutankhamun died of malaria and bone disorders, according to genetic study :innocent:
 
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According to the results viewed from the Discovery Channel, Tutankhamun belonged to the European R1b1b2, not the African R1b1*. This is why it is so surprising.
Very surprising indeed, unless they actually digged out pieces of DNA of people who actually discovered his mummy 90 years ago.... who were west europeans and whose remains are recent enough to be traceable... perhaps one of the people who discovered mummy had lot of dandruff.... well, don't blame the archaeologist, he could not know someone will do DNA search there...

Tuthankamon lived quite recently in genetic timeline...around 1333 BC – 1323 BC... if he had haplotypes that are characteristic only of European people now...that would mean that group from which he origins has since than moved from Egypt, over Persia, over ancient Greece, to west Europe without leaving traces on the way...
while I find it possible that ancient Greeks being probably fair haired might have been R1b much more than now, I find it hard to believe that European R1b haplotypes made such a massive journey that stayed unrecorded in history and left no genetic traces along the way...

so, until I see more evidence regarding such a massive journey, I prefer to stick to the dandruff theory..
 
...
while I find it possible that ancient Greeks being probably fair haired might have been R1b much more than now...

Greeks during ancient times were no more fair haired than we are now. You can find a decent number of Greeks with very light characteristics now as you could also find back then according to descriptions.
We didn't change much since then.

On the contrary, Greeks and Italians during those times believed to be superior from other populations because as they said they were not too pale like the people of the North and not dark skinned as people in the Middle East or Egypt.
 
All scientific papers take time to be published. Protocols have to be followed, and papers have to be submitted to the appropriate boards, (in this case genetic). They do no operated like a forum nor the media (instantly and without scientific proof of what they will eventually publish).

The Y-dna of King Tut, his father and grandfather match, and their mummy's were found by different archeologists at different time lines. Y-dna cannot be "dug out" in pieces. It can be found in bone, body fluids, saliva, hair, blood, (probably not dandruff.) In this case from 3 different mummy's.

Physical features, such as looks, hair color, are passed on both via a mother and a father and not just via y-dna. We all have 46 chromosomes, 23 from mother and 23 from father. Y-dna is but one of those chromosomes, and mtdna is the other. y-dna is only passed onto us from father to son. There is no such thing as mixing y-dna or mtdna. It is via autosomal testing of all our genes that we find the "mixing" of the other 22 chromosomes from each parent. There are "mutations" on the y-dna and mtdna, that can even happen between a father and son, and mtdna has few mutations in many hundreds of years (at times), so this is one reason y-dna is used for genealogical purposes.

One needs to go to information on the web or "other" sources and research when haplogroup R1b1b2 became it's own subclade from the previous parent R clade (in descending order. Try ISOGG and search haplogroup R and it's phylogenetic tree. Or even Wikipedia.


Melusine
 
The Y-dna of King Tut, his father and grandfather match, and their mummy's were found by different archeologists at different time lines. Y-dna cannot be "dug out" in pieces. It can be found in bone, body fluids, saliva, hair, blood, (probably not dandruff.) In this case from 3 different mummy's.
Melusine
Ok, 3 related mummies with same Y-DNA branch found by different archeologist kind off discard dandruff hypotheses as not likely...So, question is how did R1b branch that now exist in Europe only manage to become genetics of ruling elite in Egypt...

is there anything in ancient history like between 3500BC and 1500 BC about foreign people (not necessarily from Europe) actually conquering Egypt? ("sea people" were later and never managed to conquer Egypt, but perhaps someoone before them did)
 
how yes no,

We will have to "wait" and hear from the "experts", on this one. Once they confirm the haplogroup, they will work or are working with Population geneticists to draw some conclusions as to how this hg got to Egypt and when.

The world population 2000 years ago is estimated between 200-300 million persons, and the most populous numbers were in China and India (as they are still today), then Africa , and the Chinese and the Africans do not have the same haplogroups as people from the Middle East, Europe, etc as a whole. This leaves a small gene pool in the areas where people migrated from to the less populated areas of the world (like Europe)..

Melusine
 
But many geneticists complain that the team used inappropriate analysis techniques. Far from being definitive, the study is "not seen as rigorous or convincing", says Eline Lorenzen of the Center for GeoGenetics at the Natural History Museum in Copenhagen, Denmark. "Many of us in the DNA community are surprised that this has been published."
...
Zink and his colleagues used a genetic fingerprinting approach that involves testing variable regions of the genome called microsatellites, which are made up of short sequence repeats. The numbers of repeats vary between individuals, and by comparing the number of repeats across several microsatellites it is possible to work out whether or not individuals are related.

However, researchers rarely attempt this approach with ancient samples because the original DNA is likely to be degraded, and dwarfed by modern contamination. It's more common to sequence mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) – cells contain around a thousand times more copies of mtDNA than of genomic DNA, improving chances of finding large intact samples.

Zink and Pusch defend their choice, saying that they took extensive precautions to guard against contamination. For instance, they extracted samples from deep inside the mummies' bones, and genotyped lab staff to rule out contamination.
......
But others doubt the precautions were sufficiently rigorous. Robert Connolly of the University of Liverpool, UK, who carried out blood typing of Tutankhamun's mummy in the 1960s, argues that it would be difficult to reach deep enough inside Tutankhamun's thin, fragile bones – or those of the two fetuses – to reach uncontaminated material.
....
Lorenzen adds that many people – not just the Hawass team – have handled the mummies since they were first unwrapped. The authors should have tested non-human samples from the tombs as negative controls, she says.

To judge the quality of the team's results, Lorenzen and others are asking for access to raw data not included in the Journal of the American Medical Association paper – but Zink is reluctant to oblige, fearing the data would spark "a lot of arguing" over technicalities.
...

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20014-royal-rumpus-over-king-tutankhamuns-ancestry.html
 
Yes, and he belonged to the European branch as it is specificated. This haplogroup is very widespread, incredible if we consider all branches.
 
Yes, and he belonged to the European branch as it is specificated. This haplogroup is very widespread, incredible if we consider all branches.

The question is this: how did Pharao Tutankhamun end up with that Y-haplogroup?!
 
Yes, and he belonged to the European branch as it is specificated. This haplogroup is very widespread, incredible if we consider all branches.

Well, it only specifies R1b1a2 (presumably R1b-M269), which could still be L11- (non-European). Is M269 the farthest downstream they've tested? Egyptians have something like 2% of R1b-M269 nowadays, although I don't know if any is of the L11- Anatolian-type variety.

Edit: To answer myself, briefly, that DYS393=13 strongly indicates L11+. Hmm...
 
Well, if they say it's European must be for some reason...they compare it clearly with the R1b you can find in Spain or France. However, we can doubt, I also thought in what you say, and it's posible that due to a problem of ignorance they compare it with the European R1b's, wich have nothing to do with other clades.

For the moment I'll trust them, until there is an evidence showing the contrary.
 
Well, if they say it's European must be for some reason...they compare it clearly with the R1b you can find in Spain or France. However, we can doubt, I also thought in what you say, and it's posible that due to a problem of ignorance they compare it with the European R1b's, wich have nothing to do with other clades.

Right, I was just looking at the STRs (they've got 16 now) and they look European, with DYS393=13 being particularly indicative.
 

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