how yes no 3
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dublin,
the link between Slavs and Vikings that you suggest doesnot seem to have any proof or sound indication behind it...
since this is the thread about Serbian-Celtic parallels with focus on linguistic issues...I would kindly ask you to stop writing here zillion assumptions that are supposed to prove that Vikings were Slavs...
claim that Gaelic languages/people are not same as Celtic is on other hand interesting...
how do you comment Greek mythology in which Illyrius, Celtus and Galas are brothers.....clearly there must have been a reason why Greek mythology creates persons with names same as 3 nearby nations and link them in same group....
would it according to you mean that those 3 nations were same genetic stock, same language speakers, or perhaps allies?
assuming that Celtic is not identical with Gaelic, but related in some other way (language, culture, being allies, whatever)
to which of those would you map R1b-L21?
note that there is none of it in Galatia in Asia minor nor in Galicia in Ukraine... but otherwise fairly well covers existing languages that are considered Celtic and that you consider Gaelic...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_languages
and what about tribe Gallaeci resulting in area name Galicia in Spain and note the nearby (but not the same) tribe Galli
note that R1b-L21 covers in Celtic Spain most dominantly yhe area of Galli and Gallaeci, and is much weaker but still existing in areas of Celtici and Celtiberi...would that be a genetic argument for claims that nations today called Celtic are in fact Gaelic and that Celtic people were some other... perhaps I2a1 in west Europe and north Africa (where Celts were also recorded and where no other european haplogroups are really wide spread) and I2a2 in east Europe
than again, if you look at Galatia in Asia minor and Galicia in Ukraine what haplogroups can you map to those areas?
the most fitting haplogroup to cover both Galicia in Ukraine and Galatia in Asia minor seems to be I2a
however, more closer look shows that in Spain I2a1 actually maps to pre-Celtic Iberians (and Turdetanians) and not to Celtic people
Iberian could it be derived from same I2a tribe name as Serbian, Sardinian, Kurds, Scordisci/Serdi, Sherdana...
not really...
but among Iberians are Sordones
same as in Caucasian Iberia one finds Serboi...
in Iberian area there is even today circular dance with people holding hands.... alike to the one as in Serb related countries and in Kurds
it is called Sardana
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardana
Sardana is originally from Emporda region in northeast corner of Catalonia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empordà_(DO)
which is in fact where tribe Sordones lived on map above...
now could Sardinians in fact origin from Sordones?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ethnographic_Iberia_200_BCE.PNG
curious on picture above is also pre-Celtic residual...
it does match E1b...
note the name Turdetani/Turduli as opposed to Balkan core of E1b being Dardania... isn't this the same tribal name....
look that in Iberian part (northeast of Turdetani) there is also somewhat elevated E1b...isn't this same map as Serbia being north of Albanians and having I2a with somewhat elevated E1b?
isn't the same pattern seen in Caucasus Iberia (where also Serboi were recorded) being north of Caucasian Albania?
so who are Celtici and Celtiberi in Spain?
note also expected overall Celtic spread pattern...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_tribes
it could be J2 perhaps (mixed with some R1b-L21)... it does match pretty good locations of Celtici and Celtiberi in Spain...J2 is also found in north Africa, has strong hotspot exactly in Galatia in Asia minor, is fairly strong in Galia (France), in Galicia in Ukraine.... but not so much in R1b-L21 Goidelic areas .,, nothe also that J2 would not be Celtic only... e.g. in Europe Italy, Greece, Albania would be completely independent spread from Asia minor... also in south most Spain it has to do with Phoenicians... it should be looked in subclades... but overall it is good candidate for Celtic...
alternatively, Celtic marker would be R1b-U152.. that i tend to link to Germanic people...
I see its hotspot in Asia minor as Phrygia not as Galatia and related to germanic tribes such as Franks (called 'Fruzi' (Frugians in medieval Serbian) and its hotspot in north Italy as settlements of Germanic people - e.g. Goths in 4th to 6th century...
but it can also be Celtic...
in fact, Roman historians were suggesting that Germans is name that means 'seed' - original Celts..
though I would expect elevated levels in Celtic parts of Spain but it seems rather flat in whole Spain which would better be explained with Visigoths...
the link between Slavs and Vikings that you suggest doesnot seem to have any proof or sound indication behind it...
since this is the thread about Serbian-Celtic parallels with focus on linguistic issues...I would kindly ask you to stop writing here zillion assumptions that are supposed to prove that Vikings were Slavs...
claim that Gaelic languages/people are not same as Celtic is on other hand interesting...
how do you comment Greek mythology in which Illyrius, Celtus and Galas are brothers.....clearly there must have been a reason why Greek mythology creates persons with names same as 3 nearby nations and link them in same group....
would it according to you mean that those 3 nations were same genetic stock, same language speakers, or perhaps allies?
assuming that Celtic is not identical with Gaelic, but related in some other way (language, culture, being allies, whatever)
to which of those would you map R1b-L21?
note that there is none of it in Galatia in Asia minor nor in Galicia in Ukraine... but otherwise fairly well covers existing languages that are considered Celtic and that you consider Gaelic...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_languages
and what about tribe Gallaeci resulting in area name Galicia in Spain and note the nearby (but not the same) tribe Galli
note that R1b-L21 covers in Celtic Spain most dominantly yhe area of Galli and Gallaeci, and is much weaker but still existing in areas of Celtici and Celtiberi...would that be a genetic argument for claims that nations today called Celtic are in fact Gaelic and that Celtic people were some other... perhaps I2a1 in west Europe and north Africa (where Celts were also recorded and where no other european haplogroups are really wide spread) and I2a2 in east Europe
than again, if you look at Galatia in Asia minor and Galicia in Ukraine what haplogroups can you map to those areas?
the most fitting haplogroup to cover both Galicia in Ukraine and Galatia in Asia minor seems to be I2a
however, more closer look shows that in Spain I2a1 actually maps to pre-Celtic Iberians (and Turdetanians) and not to Celtic people
Iberian could it be derived from same I2a tribe name as Serbian, Sardinian, Kurds, Scordisci/Serdi, Sherdana...
not really...
but among Iberians are Sordones
same as in Caucasian Iberia one finds Serboi...
in Iberian area there is even today circular dance with people holding hands.... alike to the one as in Serb related countries and in Kurds
it is called Sardana
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardana
Sardana is originally from Emporda region in northeast corner of Catalonia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empordà_(DO)
which is in fact where tribe Sordones lived on map above...
now could Sardinians in fact origin from Sordones?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ethnographic_Iberia_200_BCE.PNG
curious on picture above is also pre-Celtic residual...
it does match E1b...
note the name Turdetani/Turduli as opposed to Balkan core of E1b being Dardania... isn't this the same tribal name....
look that in Iberian part (northeast of Turdetani) there is also somewhat elevated E1b...isn't this same map as Serbia being north of Albanians and having I2a with somewhat elevated E1b?
isn't the same pattern seen in Caucasus Iberia (where also Serboi were recorded) being north of Caucasian Albania?
so who are Celtici and Celtiberi in Spain?
note also expected overall Celtic spread pattern...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_tribes
it could be J2 perhaps (mixed with some R1b-L21)... it does match pretty good locations of Celtici and Celtiberi in Spain...J2 is also found in north Africa, has strong hotspot exactly in Galatia in Asia minor, is fairly strong in Galia (France), in Galicia in Ukraine.... but not so much in R1b-L21 Goidelic areas .,, nothe also that J2 would not be Celtic only... e.g. in Europe Italy, Greece, Albania would be completely independent spread from Asia minor... also in south most Spain it has to do with Phoenicians... it should be looked in subclades... but overall it is good candidate for Celtic...
alternatively, Celtic marker would be R1b-U152.. that i tend to link to Germanic people...
I see its hotspot in Asia minor as Phrygia not as Galatia and related to germanic tribes such as Franks (called 'Fruzi' (Frugians in medieval Serbian) and its hotspot in north Italy as settlements of Germanic people - e.g. Goths in 4th to 6th century...
but it can also be Celtic...
in fact, Roman historians were suggesting that Germans is name that means 'seed' - original Celts..
though I would expect elevated levels in Celtic parts of Spain but it seems rather flat in whole Spain which would better be explained with Visigoths...
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