OFFTOPIC from Albanian

i learned albanian from my parents.
the words i posted are all from linguist Alberto Areddu. The word "mud" i used as "lloç" i use to pronounce it "lluc".

Well "lluc" and "lloç" are quite distant and not similar though "llucë" indeed means mud.

Also I have an idea, with what I've read from this author that he is some sort more a "charlatan" linguistic than a real one.
 
Also I have an idea, with what I've read from this author that he is some sort more a "charlatan" linguistic than a real one.

Absolutely. The guy in question wrote a bizarre book with the title "The Albanian Origins of Sardinian Civilization", and it's complete nonsense. I don't really have the time right now to address this issue in detail (because saying that some apparent cognates are in fact not what they seem, but explaining why and how the entire methodology is completely flawed takes a bit longer), but I'll get back to this in time.

I'll say a few more words regarding ancient Sardinia however (which really don't belong here since the topic, no matter how interesting, has absolutely nothing to do with Albania or the Albanian language): from the archaeological perspective, Sardinia was part of the Beaker-Bell Culture (late 3rd millennium BC) which during the Copper Age / early Bronze Age encompassed much of Western Europe (as well as parts of Scandinavia and North Africa), and which also included Sardinia.

During the Bronze Age, Sardinia was home to the so-called Nuraghic civilization/culture, which built it's distinct towers all over the island. There existed similar cultures on Corsica (Torrean culture) and the Balearic Isles (Talayotic culture), which were possibly related.

There is a possible connection between the name "Sardinia" and the "Sherden" or "Shardana", one of the ethnic names of the Sea Peoples as they were recorded in Egyptian sources in the 13th century BC.

From approximately the 8th century onward or so, Sardinia got under the influence of the Phoenicians, who established trade posts along the island's coasts, until the island was conquered by the Romans in the wake of the Punic Wars (3rd century BC).

In a nutshell, 2000 years of prehistory and no evidence of any connection with the Balkans.
 
8mike if I may ask you, how did you learn Albanian?

Also:

1) Llaç (and not lloç) does not mean mud but stucco/plaster, more exactly we call llaç the material which is used to connect the bricks/stones ect.
2) Droboli, may i ask you were did you find/heard this word or what dialect or region it is? The only similar word i know is "Drobitje" and it means "feeling tired/sick/not well".
3) Hurdh-Ivy? Again where did you find it? An similar word I can think is Hisëll which means poison ivy.

PS: Grapevine is "Hardhi" with the /h/


Indeed the word for mud in Greek is Ιλυς Ilus and the connected material is λασπη (ιλυσ+ποιω ->λασ-πη) laspi
I have read somewhere that Illyria = lands of rain so land of mud, but I don't think so, cause of double ll
 
In favour of the linguistic connection pointed above i have to point that Sardinian Canto Tenore is similar to the Albanian one, in both cultures Sardinian and Albanian is related to shepards.
So there could be an effective ancient common origin between sardinians and albanians, (thought on genetic it's difficult to prove, because sardinians are also distant to italians, and more over the sardinian have a very south-western genetic, while albanians have a south eastern genetic)

Have a look on Sardinian and Albanian Singing
Sardinian
 
Absolutely. The guy in question wrote a bizarre book with the title "The Albanian Origins of Sardinian Civilization", and it's complete nonsense. I don't really have the time right now to address this issue in detail (because saying that some apparent cognates are in fact not what they seem, but explaining why and how the entire methodology is completely flawed takes a bit longer), but I'll get back to this in time.

I'll say a few more words regarding ancient Sardinia however (which really don't belong here since the topic, no matter how interesting, has absolutely nothing to do with Albania or the Albanian language): from the archaeological perspective, Sardinia was part of the Beaker-Bell Culture (late 3rd millennium BC) which during the Copper Age / early Bronze Age encompassed much of Western Europe (as well as parts of Scandinavia and North Africa), and which also included Sardinia.

During the Bronze Age, Sardinia was home to the so-called Nuraghic civilization/culture, which built it's distinct towers all over the island. There existed similar cultures on Corsica (Torrean culture) and the Balearic Isles (Talayotic culture), which were possibly related.

There is a possible connection between the name "Sardinia" and the "Sherden" or "Shardana", one of the ethnic names of the Sea Peoples as they were recorded in Egyptian sources in the 13th century BC.

From approximately the 8th century onward or so, Sardinia got under the influence of the Phoenicians, who established trade posts along the island's coasts, until the island was conquered by the Romans in the wake of the Punic Wars (3rd century BC).

In a nutshell, 2000 years of prehistory and no evidence of any connection with the Balkans.

Could the above mean that Sardinia is a Thyrrenian name?
 
Albanian

Are this kind of singing style diffused in other parts of Europe or even of the world? Are they connected all to shepards?
 
julia90, this really does not belong here.
 
julia90, this really does not belong here.

I pointed out that It might explain the linguistic connections, tought i belive this style of singing could be present in other parts of europe
 
I pointed out that It might explain the linguistic connections, tought i belive this style of singing could be present in other parts of europe

Yes, and I've been trying to elaborate that there is no linguistic connection, and why, from the archaeological context, it would not be expected in the slightest, either.

I really do wonder though: what is it about the Albanians that people come up with such peculiar speculation about connecting them with all kinds of other people? To briefly mention the various offbeat 'theories' that I've seen on this forum: the Basques, Berbers, Etruscans, "Pelasgians" and now Sardinians. Why is it so hard to accept that the Albanians are who they are, and that in the course of history, they interacted with the people they interacted (ancient Greeks, Dacians, Romans, East Germanic peoples, Slavs, Turks?), and with nobody else? Why all this wild speculation?
 
Yes, and I've been trying to elaborate that there is no linguistic connection, and why, from the archaeological context, it would not be expected in the slightest, either.

I really do wonder though: what is it about the Albanians that people come up with such peculiar speculation about connecting them with all kinds of other people? To briefly mention the various offbeat 'theories' that I've seen on this forum: the Basques, Berbers, Etruscans, "Pelasgians" and now Sardinians. Why is it so hard to accept that the Albanians are who they are, and that in the course of history, they interacted with the people they interacted (ancient Greeks, Dacians, Romans, East Germanic peoples, Slavs, Turks?), and with nobody else? Why all this wild speculation?


They surely are indigenous to the balkans, thought i find interesting the speculations on pelasgians: etruscans, and maybe a part of the ethnogenesis of sardinia (Shardana) surely have in common with southern balkans, because as said in past posts, pelasgians in coming from anatolia it's higly probable they have left traces in greece, albania, fyrom, bulgaria and so on.
This is why southeast europe, in particular southern parts of balkans, and southern italy as well as central italy have quite important west asian genes, thought sardinia, have less of them.
That's all about i'm interested on this topic and possible speculations on it.
 
Are this kind of singing style diffused in other parts of Europe or even of the world? Are they connected all to shepards?

Yes just find the Greek polyphony, the Famous Bulgarian womens polyphony, Serbia, Bosnia etc
 
what about sumerian :D ? the word "temen" means foundation and it is very similar to albanian "themel" which mean foundation.

themel or θεμελιος λιθος, I wonder does that word exist in Other IE languages,

θεμελιωσις foundation
θεμελιος λιθος the big stone, the first one, upon which we build a house,
θεμελιωδης basic one, the basis upon we build a theory etc
συθεμελος total act of a structure or an idea with the hidden parts,
I wonder if there is any in another Ie language? or comes from another word like Themis θεμις -θεμιτος, Θυμα,

hmmm
maybe from the word θεμα (theme) ???

virb θετω (Ι put)
noun θεμα θεμιτος θεσις
extracts θετος Θετταλος θεμελιος ενθετος Εκθεσις και εκθεμα etc
 
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themel or θεμελιος λιθος, I wonder does that word exist in Other IE languages,

θεμελιωσις foundation
θεμελιος λιθος the big stone, the first one, upon which we build a house,
θεμελιωδης basic one, the basis upon we build a theory etc
συθεμελος total act of a structure or an idea with the hidden parts,
I wonder if there is any in another Ie language? or comes from another word like Themis θεμις -θεμιτος, Θυμα,

hmmm
maybe from the word θεμα (theme) ???

virb θετω (Ι put)
noun θεμα θεμιτος θεσις
extracts θετος Θετταλος θεμελιος ενθετος Εκθεσις και εκθεμα etc

i thought it was possible to have connections between non european languages. i remember the word *táwros (bull) cognating with the semitic *θawr-. Maybe "temen" cognates with the word themel and θεμα. Maybe it can be a very old borrowing during some very old migration.
 
i thought it was possible to have connections between non european languages. i remember the word *táwros (bull) cognating with the semitic *θawr-. Maybe "temen" cognates with the word themel and θεμα. Maybe it can be a very old borrowing during some very old migration.

Indeed that is true, and I agree,
But I think sumerians were a bit Ie, although I might be wrong,

Indeed there are a lot of words of Semitic on Mediterenean languages,
But I believe that comes from the Akkadians, for me they split to Arcado-Cypriots and to Levantines,
Arcado-Cypriots moved west reaching Aegean and become Pelasgians and from there to Italy as Etruscans,
while Levantines moved south and Create Phoenicians

there many words which we consider as Semitic, which exists in South IE languages, even in Latin as the word aqua, Homer Hesiodus uses many non IE which we consider as Pelasgian or Semitic.

Even in modern Turkish we find such words.
 
Maybe the Proto Semitic and Proto IE, before separating in two different languages were the same language, thus this similarities...

@julia90
Maybe this similar polifonic type of singing in Albania and Sardinia is a remnants from the Roman Empire.
 
Indeed that is true, and I agree,
But I think sumerians were a bit Ie, although I might be wrong,

Indeed there are a lot of words of Semitic on Mediterenean languages,
But I believe that comes from the Akkadians, for me they split to Arcado-Cypriots and to Levantines,
Arcado-Cypriots moved west reaching Aegean and become Pelasgians and from there to Italy as Etruscans,
while Levantines moved south and Create Phoenicians

there many words which we consider as Semitic, which exists in South IE languages, even in Latin as the word aqua, Homer Hesiodus uses many non IE which we consider as Pelasgian or Semitic.

Even in modern Turkish we find such words.


Sumerian was an isolate language, completely unrelated with Indo-European. Sumerian is the oldest attested language, and it was the first language that ceased to be spoken as a living language but continued as a literature language (similar to Latin). It was effectively a dead language from the early 2nd millennium BC onward, before any Indo-European language was even attested. It was never spoken outside of Mesopotamia.

So, I would like to ask you: what are the chances of any kind of borrowing from Sumerian into Albanian, or any other Indo-European language (other than for instance Hittite)?

Maybe the Proto Semitic and Proto IE, before separating in two different languages were the same language, thus this similarities...

Semitic and IE are not closely related. The Semitic languages are part of the greater Afroasiatic (aka Afrasian) language family, which includes the Berber languages, the Chadic langugaes, Egyptian and the Kushitic languages.

I agree that there is the possibility that this word is related, but it could also be a Semitic borrowing into PIE, a PIE borrowing into Semitic, or a common borrowing from a third source.
 
Sumerian was an isolate language, completely unrelated with Indo-European. Sumerian is the oldest attested language, and it was the first language that ceased to be spoken as a living language but continued as a literature language (similar to Latin). It was effectively a dead language from the early 2nd millennium BC onward, before any Indo-European language was even attested. It was never spoken outside of Mesopotamia.

So, I would like to ask you: what are the chances of any kind of borrowing from Sumerian into Albanian, or any other Indo-European language (other than for instance Hittite)?



Semitic and IE are not closely related. The Semitic languages are part of the greater Afroasiatic (aka Afrasian) language family, which includes the Berber languages, the Chadic langugaes, Egyptian and the Kushitic languages.

I agree that there is the possibility that this word is related, but it could also be a Semitic borrowing into PIE, a PIE borrowing into Semitic, or a common borrowing from a third source.

I do not know about the chance of a Sumerian word to have been in modern Albanian,
and believe little chances, But you may not exclude the bellow chances,
that Themel is from Older Illyrian and survived in modern Albanian
or an ancient Greek borrow, That is why I asked if exist in any other IE language,
if the word is not connected with any other IE then surely is Greek or older non IE

although there is a book by Jehunda (Yehunda) that compares Greek, Hebrew, Latin and older languages like Aramaic and by what i was able to see there are indeed many commons, the number the last time was >1600 thematic roots, meaning that the possibility is high, of an older Mediterenean- minor Asian language,

Just think how much we know about the language of the Hatti (Hath-rop, Hath-rus)
 
I have moved a lot of clearly unrelated posts from the Albanian language thread into this one. The original thread is found here.
 
if i remember right there are a few words in common between albanian and basque language. maybe the pre albanian language was not IE. also

sardinian:eni = alban enjë

sardinian:alase spear grass = alban halë thorn

sardinian: lothiu mud (topp: Lotzorai, Lothorgo, Loceri, Lotzeri) = alban lloç ‘mud

sardinian: dròb(b)alu pig intestine = alban drobolì intestine

sardinian: urtzula ‘clematis’, top. Urtzulei = albanese hurdh ivy


also

basque: txerri pig = albanian derri pig
basque: ardoa wine = albanian ardhi grapevine
basque: buztan tail = albanian bisht tail (but i think this is IE)

also even in serbo-croatian you can find similarities with basqu:
particularly gora (mountain) and gore (up). Gorain Basque is up, upwards, being a clear ethimologically Basque word (goi+ra: to the high) The other connection was reka (river) and erreka (creek, small river) but this can well be an IE import into Basque.

So this is why it wasn't so strange to me that Sardinian and Albanian could have a connection in some ways.



Latin lutum - clay, mud
Romanian lut - clay


Romanian drob - chicken or lamb intestines
Serbian,Croatian,Czech,Slovenian drob - intestines
Bulgarian drob - lung
 

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