Berbers and Albanians, E haplogroup and linguistic similarity

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"There are recent studies for E haplogroup in Europe"
Is it hard to link source?

Yes, of course.


For Serbia and Montenegro is American study:

Sheyla Mirabal et al

Human Y-chromosome short tandem repeats: A tale of acculturation and migrations as mechanisms for the diffusion of agriculture in the Balkan Peninsula

American Journal of Physical Anthropology

Volume 142, Issue 3, pages 380–390, July 2010


You have the topic about it and link.
 
Today its all about the right of self-detemination and that have nothing to do with real origin.

Self-dertermination is fine, self-determination purely for land claims on neighbours? we have a problem.
 
Maybe they are not fake but not homgenous either. We dont know how many people are connected from the first beginning of the period of a country´s historical existence that means all countries must rewrite from what period they are claiming and how they connect to it.
Today its all about the right of self-detemination and that have nothing to do with real origin.

If you think about haplogroups the situation is different.

But keep in mind haplogroups tell us about the origin but not a nation in the modern sense.

In Serbia total I haplogroup is 47,97%, if you take into account the minorities in Serbia (16%) this means that it is very likely that over 50% of Serbs in Serbia have Haplogroup I.

For Bulgaria according to the available data is mixed, but that does not conclude anything, probably new study is needed.

For Montenegro, the data was surprising, it is big mix, I and E are the most abundant and approximately equal, without a dominant haplogroups.

For Albania and neighboring countries inhabited by Albanians seem to be different haplogroups for Gega and Tosca, according to the data in Gega E haplogroup is a dominant.

I think, in Romania I haplogroup is dominant (about more than 40%) but the data among studies are different.

You can see the data for Macedonia FYROM:

I 29,1%,
E 24,1%,
R1a 15,2%,
J 5,3% etc.

I think about such data because it is a mixed ethnic country where ethnic Albanians make up about 25% of the population, and the ethnic Turks have a significant number in the population.

Probably the data is different among different ethnic groups.
 
well garick and to all of you

we have a big E concentration in continent greece from south until kossyfopedio (kossovo-kossova) to north, mixed with big J2

with lingua approach we have enough but early homerick (100 -300 years after homer)
but also many other,

I gonna put my 3 possible solutions

1 is the approach mycene-mysian-moesian (probably 4 maken-to ->makedo)
according that the E from lydia had alliance with Troy and then stayed in mysian and then to moesia, and because i know gegs get married only gegs stayed in high retraction, and arbanitet just add a 10% to Greek E-V13,
that can expain a many turkish words via Hetit,
BUT MAYBE TURKISH PAS WHEN ISLAMIZATION DONE AT 1500 AD

IF that is correct then we have the approach by Greece,
If we look first cyprus habitation is 10 000 BC
probably a connection via ly and car leads to greece,
the possibilty that, that times people were nomads, maybe via cyprus pass to cilykia to lydia (maybe mistaken lybia) to peloponese (corinth-carinth) and from there via inland until dardania,
it is one approach but low E-V13 in minor asia especially south does not makes it correct,
so we go by sea

3a) via cypruss
3b) straight from africa,

3a) via cyprus is maybe a solution cause cyprus means copper in greek, cypruss also connected with midlle east J2, probably an Egyprian and a Phoenician

but from what i know
in Greece there were 2 civilizations before,
1 cyclades cycladetic civilization
4000 BC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclades

mysterious object is that of the Cycladic frying pans. More accurate archaeology has revealed the broad outlines of a farming and seafaring culture that had immigrated from Asia Minor ca 5000 BCE.
modern scientist connect them with phoenician lebanese culture, but not total,
it was a J2 civilization clear,
but south was crete,
in crete we know
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87b5bHxDrps&feature=related
that until the union under 1 king we had many wars and invasion,
also in crete we know that a big bargain was among cyprus and Egypt and Hetits,
also that palaces were build with an architecture probably Libyan, and areas like ΣΗΤΕΙΑ Setia reminds us Egyptian god Set or the Adams son Seth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_(mythology)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth

Also linear A
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_A
Though the two scripts – Linear A and B – share some of the same symbols, using the syllables associated with Linear B in Linear A writings produces words that are unrelated to any known language. This language has been dubbed Minoan and corresponds to a period in Cretan history prior to a series of invasions by Mycenaean Greeks around 1450 BC.
Linear A seems to have been used as a complete syllabary around 1900–1800 BC, although several signs appear as mason marks earlier. It is possible that the Trojan Linear A scripts discovered by Heinrich Schliemann and one inscription from central Crete, as well as a few similar potters' marks from Lahun, Egypt (12th dynasty) come from an earlier period, ca. 2100–1900 BC, which is the period of the construction of the first palaces.


connection is more with lydia and etruscans,


watch stone

cretan la = stone
labrys the stone axe
labyrinth of gortyna a stone minning area
larissa either stone nose either stone minning (ris is nose but re- means flux re-o re-ma)
!!!! Lapithes a tribe lived north of Larissa south of olymp biten By Hrcules and went to south Illyria (today liapi-des) the Ali-pasa tribe,


Lapis the latin stone
mont Albani in Latin probably mont Lab-ani and change via time or new lingua


the cretan pre-greek language was similar to lemnos or troy,
close to phoenician but relative to Lydian or Etruscan as you Read
A NON IE LANGUAGE




But the aytochonus J2 almost >40% ??
probably made after the volcano of thera explosion,
But the E in south West cret Kydon and generally in the west were invansions were done by achaic and doric leads more that E came from peloponese,

THAT IS THE MOST CORRECT FROM ME,
E-V13 STARTED FROM SOUTH GREECE
AND INVADED AREAS

Reasons to believe

1. crete has no god Athena and bull worship and most J2 thracian
ithaka and peloponese had goddess Athena probably Neith or Tanit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neith

2 megalithic structures build in mycenae are 3500 or older
The big pyramid that can be seen from far away sea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqZOOMmFKRk&feature=related

besides Mycenae and minyans and minoans maybe have a connection
example syllabic
ko no so = knosos (crete) also ko no = konos = pyramid
mi ko no = mycenae city or pyramid of mi
mi ny ia or mi ne ia sea city harbor ne-o means sail nafs the boat
or the other is maximum and minimum
meaning that mycenae was capital and the rest smaller kingdoms

3 Theba altough similar with egyptian thebes, has nothing to do cause named after greeks
but cadmus phoinix cilix europa???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmus
The Greeks attributed the foundation of Thebes to Cadmus, a Phoenician king from Tyre (now in Lebanon) and the brother of Queen Europa. Cadmus was famous for teaching the Phoenician alphabet and building the Acropolis, which was named the Cadmeia in his honor and was an intellectual, spiritual, and cultural center. Archaeological excavations in and around Thebes have revealed cist graves dated to Mycenaean times containing weapons, ivory, and tablets written in Linear B. Its name in the local tablets, and in tablets found in Mycenae, was transliterated TE-QA-I (TH Ft 140.1) understood to be read as *Tʰēgʷai (Ancient Greek Θῆβαι Thēbai), and TE-QA-DE (MY X 508; TH Wu 65.a) for *Tʰēgʷasde (Ancient Greek Θήβασδε Thēbasde).

but also QA has to do with makedonian AIGAI GOATS AND AEGEAN PELAGO


now watch
Amphion married Niobe,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphion
niobe may noibe -> nubian nubian is libya
that means that E-V13 was here at 2000 BC

or in case that niobe means nio-be niobia
means fresh woman or Swimmer
the above is wrong

the most to believe is that E-V13 has to do with 3500 when mycenae was build


now from theba start illyros an invasion

BUT

According to the Library and Epitome of Apollodorus, Illyrius was the youngest son of Cadmus and Harmonia who eventually ruled Illyria and became the eponymous ancestor of the whole Illyrian people.[1] Illyrius was specifically born during an expedition against the Illyrians on the side of the Encheleans.[2]

According to the Illyrian Wars of Appian, Illyrius was the son of the Cyclops Polyphemus and his wife Galatea with siblings Celtus and Galas. The children of Polyphemus all migrated from Sicily and ruled over the peoples named after them, the Celts, the Illyrians, and the Galatians.[3] This particular genealogy was most likely composed by the ancient Greek founders of Epidamnus (Corinthians and Corcyrans) and preserved in Appian's work.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrius#cite_note-3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrius
Προς τα τέλη της ζωής τους, οι γονείς του Ιλλυριού, αλλά και ο ίδιος, έφυγαν από τη Θήβα και πήγαν στην Ιλλυρία, έχοντας πάρει τη μορφή φιδιών ή δρακόντων. Εκεί πέθαναν και εκεί ενταφιάσθηκαν. Τους «τάφους» τους, τους έδειχναν στους ιστορικούς χρόνους της αρχαιότητας.
http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ιλλυριός
Draco or Drago is serpent like creature that means the big chief
draco is the ruler of oligarchy system like goths law and also were these rulers are buried, each family has its own draco symbol,
according greek dracon also worshiped in palestine and athenes,
drago also is cursed graved of a Big warrior or king,
now according Greeks parents of illyrus went to illyria and until christianity their tombs were knowed and exhibit.

THAT MEANS PROBABLY BROUGHT FROM SICILY AT About 1800 BC

in that case E-V13 came from sicily and went south


I BELIEVE THAT E-V13 CAME AT 4000 - 3500 Via Sea by africa

and with J2 And R (IE) carriers create THE GREEKS

The difference of language has to do either with isolation or IEnism of Greece,
meaning that after illyrus went away theba Greece made a new language and dardano-illyrians make another with more thracian and latino roman
and turkish lingua enters at Kastrioti time when islamization enters
meaning that if legend is correct then



E-carriers came at 3500 Bc about and travell with J2 north to Illyria

or E-carriers came 1800 BC To illyria from sicelia and from there south.


the last possibility that i dont find with much % to be true

But that makes me WONDER

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53Eoy1RWF9A&feature=related

BALKAN PEOPLE KNEW TO WRITE AND BUILD BEFORE 6000 BC
then WTF IE language???????
thrasian language travel even britain, (42% similar greek)
And all the rest simply learn and carry thracian language!!! just thinking or wonder !!!

4. at 700-900 AD
there is mass genocide of Greeks by Orthodox christians from 476 to 1100 AD
from illyria to syria to egypt,
later islamization of north africa probably sent christians E-V13 from egypt to balkans
from orthodox Byzantines,
probably has to do that they opened space for african christians and exterminated Greeks as pagans, or with the arabs and normand in sicily
that expalines the allow to every arber defore even arber EXISTS
to inhabbit attica (emperor gave land only to christians)

state of arber 1190 AD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Arbër
but the support from arbanites to georgios maniakis Γεωργιος Μανιακης
as the 1 license to immigrate attica at 1080 Ad By Alexios A Komnenos
the 2nd at 1210 about by latins
probably migration with normands conguering south italy and push to New arber (old arber is in dalmatia) known history create mass movement,

But the lack of some E to Aimos peninsula makes me believe that is not correct


if someone can help me to that then ok

SO MY PREVIOUS BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE HERE WITH J2 FROM 3500 BC
Or came from sicilly at almost 1800 BC althought i m not convinced for the last


if anyone denies that christians genocide Greeks tell me to send sources, more than 10 000 000
 
ok guys MAKEDONIA IS ONE AND IS GREEK,
TETOVO BELONGS TO ALBANIA
KUMANOVO TO SERBIA
STRUMNITSA TO BULGARIA
AND KEEP THE CHANGE DONT NEED LIES IN MY COUNTRY

besides i write a text and waiting approval
 
This is Macedonia and does not belong to any occupants. All are free to live there as anywhere else.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(region)

Modern Macedonia is divided by the national boundaries of Greece (Greek Macedonia), the Republic of Macedonia, Bulgaria (Blagoevgrad Province), Albania (Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo), Serbia (Prohor Pčinjski and Gora).


Borders of Macedonia according to different authors (1843–1927)


Sklaviniae in Medieval Macedonia c. 700 AD.
Macodnian_Sklavinia.png


Expansion of Macedon in to a kingdom
ExpansionOfMacedon.jpg





Dont want to continue with unrelevant propagande crap, the tread was about the connection between Berbers and Albanians haplogroup E.
 
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iapetoc
It is known, according to historical sources, that Makednoi were the Doric tribe.

But I think you agree that we should stick to the theme, if we open questions that are not closely related to the topic we lose focus.

Somewhere you wrote about different ways Gega and Tosca, and according new researching there are significant differences between their haplogroups, could you clarify what you mean?
 
DejaVu
There are topics on which issues about which you write can be discussed and may be new topics.

But please that we keep to this theme here.
 
Garrick i wrote a big but waiting aprovall sais

i checked 4 posibilities and seems that E came before 5500 or 3500 BC via peloponese Main, also believe not crete

or at 1800 BC via sicily

or at 1042 AD with george maniakis and normands via sicily

about tosk and gege diference its more in syntax, and we can found it in early albanian about before 1920,

guys it was big 4 hour writing why does not showing it

chech out the mess, its full of E

mess-ara in crete invasion by achaic
mess-enia in peloponese
mess-apic language in apulia
mess-ene in sicily


sory that is from above

MAKEDONIAN NATIONAL ANTHEM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er5RLk7TM6Q&feature=related
 
Garrick i wrote a big but waiting aprovall sais

i checked 4 posibilities and seems that E came at 5500-3500 BC via peloponese Main, also believe not crete

or at 1800 BC via sicily

or at 1042 AD with george maniakis and normands via sicily

about tosk and gege diference its more in syntax, and we can found it in early albanian about before 1920,

guys it was big 4 hour writing why does not showing it

I really do not know which post you mean, it seems I lost time and energy to issues not related to the topic.

Realistically your posts here are very hardworking, excellent analysis.

And you set assumption that the name Shqiptar derived from Egyptian, but now intrigues me three things:

1) According Ferri et al, among Gege and Tosk is a big difference in haplogroups, Gege have dominant E and in Tosk have no dominant one haplogroup.

2) According Robert Eslie in "Earlies Reference to the Existence of the Albanian Language", the first time Albanian language is referred by Europeans in the period from 1285 to 1332 AD.

3) According to the Italian study (the latest post other party themes), the question is whether E holders come from Africa by sea.

What's in this can be related?
 
and for some smart quys
Banovine_Jugoslavia.png


VARDAR BANOVINE what makedonia and ..... green horses

Besides VUKEFALAS ΒΟΥΚΕΦΑΛΑΣ WAS A HORSE
NOT A ZASTAVA
AND HIS NAME WAS NOT BOLGLAVATA BUT ΒΟΥΚΕΦΑΛΑΣ

razbiras? sfati? razumeo? kuptohet?
 
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the possibility that came from egypt
is at time 5500 but little strange sea, means by land,

or at 3500 BC in peloponese not crete and make the Pyramid so high that can be seen by sea,

or at 1800 BC via sicilly to illyria,
the epidamnians mentioned that after illyros a nation came from sicily with cyclops
but in illyria before christianity they knew and show the tube of illyros and the draco, of hes fathers,
now why not today?????? churches know

drago is a knife as serpent that has only the leader of a clan-familly
dragon was the oligarchy law at athenes
dragon was a god of philistine
and draco is the tomb of a drago or a clan

we can find drago and draco even in moesia and romania.
also in minor asia ionia lydia even to lycaonia ....
draco later named kulla from turkish kalle


a small chance is that an extra E came at sicily at about 1000 AD and via george maniakis and normands from durress-dyrachium-epidamnus pass even to thessalonike
and revolt against Con/polis
That is story of anna komnene and michael attaleiates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Comnena
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Attaleiates
but i find it impossible that a small part from an ex big army to be so big as millions today.
as i find impossible that did not have all the types of north africa E,
so the last approach is just to be mentioned and not to be consider as correct

so we go back to 1800 or at 3500 or at 5500,
i strongly believe the 3500 BC as the correct
via south peloponese were built a pyramid at top of a mountain (3600-3000 BC) so as to be seen by the sea

why not crete,
cause godess Athena is godess Neith and Tanit, and in crete minoans never worshipe her a lot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neith

and athena was a western islands godess which later pass to athenes

the possibilty if years are correct that illyros was born at about 2000 BC almost before theba walls was build or before, after cadmeia was built, blablah 4 hours i was writting and missed

besides it was the minoans who went to egypt and build avaris

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avaris

i m not a genetist but a mt DNA could help us more,
if someone knows the origin and expansion of mtDNA in balkans, maybe can give more light
 
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... Haplogroup E V13 is the Genetic Marker of Neolithic Farmers which flooded the Balkans and Europe 10 000 - 15 000 Years ago.

sturmgewehr
So it was thought before, these times are long since reduced.

Cruciani et al, 2007 as a possible arrival time E carriers in the Balkans state between 4000 and 4700 year, and some authors placed this time even closer to our days.


"The TMRCA ofthe European E-V13 chromosomes turns out to be 4.0–4.7 ky (under 2 different demographic expansion scenarios,see Subjects and Methods; 95% CI 3.5–4.6 ky and 4.1–5.3ky, respectively).

These results open the possibility of recognizingtime windows for ... population movements from western Asia into Europeand later within Europe."
 
Serbians are invented history like the rest of the neighbours of Macedonia.
Serbia, Bulgaria, Greece and Albania is fake countries with fake population.
Cyrillic alphabet, slavic language, to get an independent church, all this was given to the Serbs by the Macedonians.
These countries use Macedonian traditional songs, history and make them as their own. Once the Serbs where slavs, white serbs, old serbs, yugoslavs, montenegrins, rascians and again serbs if you dont know what you are, why change the name of your country? ]

right...whole world is invented except Macedonians...
grow up...

and for some smart quys
Banovine_Jugoslavia.png


VARDAR BANOVINE what makedonia and ..... green horses

Besides VUKEFALAS ΒΟΥΚΕΦΑΛΑΣ WAS A HORSE
NOT A ZASTAVA
AND HIS NAME WAS NOT BOLGLAVATA BUT ΒΟΥΚΕΦΑΛΑΣ

razbiras? sfati? razumeo? kuptohet?

Macedonians have that name for several centuries at least, and probably much more than you can stand it...

Vardarska banovina was administrative unit in first Yugoslavia that included Macedonia and south Serbia. Whole idea was to avoid division on national entities and to introduce administrative districts with mixed population whose names were mostly given by main rivers in area. In such a division there is no Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia either....instead there are districts named mostly after rivers: Zetska banovina, Drinska banovina, Moravska banovina, Savska banovina....

Talking about Macedonians as Vardarska banovina is just very cheap propaganda not based on facts.
 
the possibility that came from egypt
is at time 5500 but little strange sea, means by land,

or at 3500 BC in peloponese not crete and make the Pyramid so high that can be seen by sea,

or at 1800 BC via sicilly to illyria,
the epidamnians mentioned that after illyros a nation came from sicily with cyclops
but in illyria before christianity they knew and show the tube of illyros and the draco, of hes fathers,
now why not today?????? churches know

drago is a knife as serpent that has only the leader of a clan-familly
dragon was the oligarchy law at athenes
dragon was a god of philistine
and draco is the tomb of a drago or a clan

we can find drago and draco even in moesia and romania.
also in minor asia ionia lydia even to lycaonia ....
draco later named kulla from turkish kalle


a small chance is that an extra E came at sicily at about 1000 AD and via george maniakis and normands from durress-dyrachium-epidamnus pass even to thessalonike
and revolt against Con/polis
That is story of anna komnene and michael attaleiates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Comnena
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Attaleiates
but i find it impossible that a small part from an ex big army to be so big as millions today.
as i find impossible that did not have all the types of north africa E,
so the last approach is just to be mentioned and not to be consider as correct

so we go back to 1800 or at 3500 or at 5500,
i strongly believe the 3500 BC as the correct
via south peloponese were built a pyramid at top of a mountain (3600-3000 BC) so as to be seen by the sea

why not crete,
cause godess Athena is godess Neith and Tanit, and in crete minoans never worshipe her a lot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neith

and athena was a western islands godess which later pass to athenes

the possibilty if years are correct that illyros was born at about 2000 BC almost before theba walls was build or before, after cadmeia was built, blablah 4 hours i was writting and missed

besides it was the minoans who went to egypt and build avaris

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avaris

i m not a genetist but a mt DNA could help us more,
if someone knows the origin and expansion of mtDNA in balkans, maybe can give more light

iapetoc
According Cruciani et al, 2007 a possible time of arrival E carriers to the Balkans is between 4000 and 4700 year ago. It is 2000 to 2700 years BC.

Peloponnese is possible territory where they settled.

But, if they came by land then it is difficult to have first settled in the Peloponnese, then the version with the sea routes makes sense.

E holders as stated in the literature and sites likely to come from Upper Egypt.

293px-Ancient_Egypt_map-en.svg.png


1) E carriers in the Balkans maybe have Chushitic roots.

We see the Kush in the map.

The Albanian word Kush is Who.

And for example, Ila is Chushitic word that means eye. Are the words Ila and Ilir, Illyrian can be linked, it is not known.


2) We can certainly try to link the Balkan E carriers with ancestors Copts but this may be the good but may be the wrong track.

It would be interesting to us what Dian can says for the Italian Arbresh, what he investigated about the connection between Coptic and Albanian.

We don't know whether we can say that the Copts in general are E carriers. So far as can be found in the literature are low percentages of E haplogroup among the Copts. Also, they do not speak the Coptic language today, Arabic only.


3) The similarity of the Albanian words with Berber can point to the third link beside Cushitic and Coptic.

Berber languages are very dynamic and they changed so at the main Afroasian roots were influences from other group of languages, in good part from Nilo-Saharan.

If you look at the Upper Egypt and North Sudan has more Nilo-Saharan languages that would be interesting to study in comparison with the Albanian.


It is believed that the Nilo-Saharan languages originated in the region of the Sahara, you can look spreading the Berber Tamashek languages (Tuareg Berbers), where I gave examples of comparing words of one of the branch, called Tamasheq, with Albanian.

Researchings haplogroups in Sudan confirmed that among the speakers of Nilo Saharan languages are high percentages of haplogroup E-M78, which one of subclade is E-V13.

In this sense, it would probably be gone from the researching of similarity the Albanian with Nubian languages.

iapetoc
Perhaps Mes that you are referring comes from Maahes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maahes

If so then it would be possible that the original Albanian comes from the Nilo Saharan languages and not Afroasian but of course needs a lot of research, that would enable to prove or disprove the assumptions.


My opinion is that roots of Albanian are rather Afroasian than Nilo Saharan, but in Upper Egypt there are also Nilo Saharan languages so that it is the valuable research and comparisons.


Coptic language has almost disappeared, in the Egypt can no longer speak, and personally I think that Albanians are not descendants of Copts, we see that in Egypt live many people, and what was the situation at the time when E carriers migrate from Africa to Europe can just imagine.

Another major problem is the northern Cushitic languages and Nilo Saharan still are not standardized, which are mostly spoken, and are not in schools.


On the Internet, and literature, we can hardly find anything about languages that we are most interested.

Therefore, Berber languages is the most affordable and most accessible for research because Berbers have successed to maintain their languages despite all the influences that have received.
 
right...whole world is invented ...

How yes no,
Please, do not get me wrong, but this topic is very complex and requires much researchs and reading, so that any diversion from it loses focus, I can only ask you to stick to theme, and since you are very analytical and very well versed, you can give this issue full contribution.
 
Macedonians have that name for several centuries at least, and probably much more than you can stand it...

Proof? because I can prove that they were bulgarians before WW2. There were macedonian dynasties during the eastern roman empire (Byzantine), like Basil the second, which fought and won against who they call their ansestors, czar samuel ect.

In all reality, this dispute isn't about what they call themselves, it's the territorial claims they make based on their imagined community. This is why Greece doesn't mind they use the term 'macedonia', as long as the is a prefix, like northern, Upper, New Macedonia ect, which distinuishes itself from the greek Macedonia. Bulgaria feels the same way and back greece on this.
 
According Cruciani et al, 2007 a possible time of arrival E carriers to the Balkans is between 4000 and 4700 year ago. It is 2000 to 2700 years BC.

the connection with libya is also an inderesting approach,
but was done by cretan archologists in 1970 and fall cause minoan seems to invade libya before phoenician, the similarity of cities and buildings, is more between lebanon crete and upper egypt,
now about the approach of cruciani et al maybe i m wrong or maybe they but we have almost near 3000,
that connects with different architecture on megalithic, and the age of megalithic structures,
now the connection with the lions worshipers is probably theory cause lions were greeks cities wηere even mycaene

the photo is big so open it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycenae

but i dont know the time the corrent,
Nubia was known as Kush, or, in Classical Greek usage, included under the name Ethiopia.




hmmm its a good idea
also that goddes bastia is similar to Greek goddes Estia for me lady of fire
but to artemis according herodotus,
although i dont find big similarity to artemis, only in people myths and bad signs
and both virgins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bast_%28goddess%29

about that garick
My opinion is that roots of Albanian are rather Afroasian than Nilo Saharan, but in Upper Egypt there are also Nilo Saharan languages so that it is the valuable research and comparisons.

i belive that if Dian finds the book he says

Giuseppe Catapano, "Thot Parlava Albanese" Bardi Editore, Roma 1984!

then we have enough and we can find similarities with Greek wich also has Big E-V13

about the approach by sea or by land i find it little difficult by land and not leave small traces of E-V13
exept in case that they were a few at that time and fast move, they should have left a tribe with 25% E-V13 in the road,
That is why i believe that E came by sea,
either from cyprus to Aegean sea, east or west coach,
or from north africa to sicily to aimos peninsula,
or straght to peloponese
besides the first approach in cyclades civilization leads us to admit that sailing was founded before 4000 BC

about that garrick

And for example, Ila is Chushitic word that means eye. Are the words Ila and Ilir, Illyrian can be linked, it is not known.

hmmmm

according epidamnians
with illyrus was a son of cyclopes, cycllopes have 1 eye, probably the 1 eye of ra
above head
or the eye of Horus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eye_of_Horus.svg

to some scientists the megalithic structures are name cyclopeians, cyclops made them,
to hommer cyclops lived in sicily,
according to them cyclopes invade and stayed in illyria,

But i m missing the eye symbol, have you ever seen an eye symbol in balkans?

sometimes i really wonder why Alexander went to oasis of siwa
 
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How yes no,
Please, do not get me wrong, but this topic is very complex and requires much researchs and reading, so that any diversion from it loses focus, I can only ask you to stick to theme, and since you are very analytical and very well versed, you can give this issue full contribution.

ok, regarding the theme, I think you are somewhat on wrong clue....
Albanians are cluster with Serb/Croats/central Ukraine Romania/east and west Hungary (thus Hungary before Magyars arrived), and only together they cluster with Berbers... this indicates that not only Albanians but Serbs as well are related to Berbers

language of Berbers might have been heavily influenced by I2a1 that might have been same ancient old proto-Serb related tribes who settled Sardinia.. so, you would do better if you focus on words shared between Serbian and Berber language...though once you find them you will not be sure whether they are due to I2a1 or due to haplogroup E (as this one is in Serbs up to 20%)

look at Berber people in northwest Africa

Berber-map-2e.png


and compare to this map of I2a (area in north Africa is I2a1)

Haplogroup_I2a.gif


I2a1 does correlate with Berbers fairly well.... note that map might be somewhat ad-hoc regarding north Africa as there is probably no precise data for vast areas...


as for Lybia, if it is related to Lydia, this is again potential issue with I2a as Lydia was largely matching I2a spread.... I am not sure but I think split between I2a1 and I2a2 is closer in time than E-V13 i E haplogroups of northwest Africa...I do wonder about genetics of Berber speaking Siwi people (see map above)

Map_of_Lydia_ancient_times.jpg
 
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