The Albanian language

Status
Not open for further replies.
Welldone.
I think that Illyrian, thracian, Dacian, as well as Etruscan and Rhaetian are close relatives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Balkan_languages

What well done for gods sake Hal Fao? 90% of those words are of Latin and Turkish origin. The only few and are few Albanian-Daco-Thracian words are in some posts a couple of pages back. Besides them that list is a total BS.
 
A very strange thing in albanian:
-in albanian you have a letter , dh which is pronounced as th in the english word the
http://mylanguages.org/albanian_alphabet.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dh_(digraph)#D
In icelandic you have a letter for this sound,some kind of D written as Ð ð and which is pronounced as english th in english the.
To make even more weird:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eth
"Eth (Ð, ð; also spelled edh or eð) is a letter used in Old English, Icelandic, Faroese (in which it is called edd), and Elfdalian. It was also used in Scandinavia during the Middle Ages, but was subsequently replaced with dh and later d, except for Iceland where it survives."

How can this be explained?

The modern Albanian orthography (that is, the convention on how to spell things, if you do not know what the term "orthography" means) was only developed in the earliest 20th century. Besides, I have to repeat myself from what I said in the other thread, just because they have the same sound doesn't mean they are related. The Welsh language for example has the sound in question (the voiced dental fricative), too, even though it's spelled "dd" in Welsh. Does that mean Albanian, Icelandic and Welsh are closely related? Obviously not.

as a general rule, /θ/ and /ð/ in the Germanic languages (where they are preserved) corresponds with /t/ in Albanian:

English "mother" - Icelandic "moðir" - Albanian "motër"
English "three" - Icelandic "þrír" - Albanian "tre"


(both sounds are derived from PIE *t)

Conversely, Albanian /ð/ generally corresponds with Germanic /k/ or /g/:

Albanian "dhemb" - German "Kamm", English "comb"
Albanian "dhelpër" - German "gelb", English "yellow" (but compare Anglo-Saxon "geolu")

(the sounds are derived from are PIE *g´ and *g´h)


I think that Illyrian, thracian, Dacian, as well as Etruscan and Rhaetian are close relatives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Balkan_languages

Except that Etruscan and Rhaetian have nothing to do there, since they were neither Indo-European nor spoken on the Balkans.

Also, there's the general consensus that Albanian is related to the Paleo-Balkan languages, but due to the scarce attestation of all languages, there is no consensus which one Albanian is descended from. I've talked about this in the very first post of this thread.
 
can someine give me explanation for this: albanian "buke" means "bread" and Orel derives it from Latin "bucca" meaning "mouth". Why this cannot be derived from phrygian (Tracian maybe connections with illyrian) "bekos" meaning "bread" (and even further PIE *bheHg-)?

ps i am not 100% sure but there are also other albanian words where *e reflected in *u later. i will check and post if i find them
 
Last edited:
I got reminded by Yetos, thank you for that, of this Albanian word, sorta old and rarely used by the new generations these days, "gjiton" meaning "neigbhour" and mainly used in Southern Albania, from Gjirokastër down to the Greek border and by the Chams and as Yetos reminded this, by the Arvanits too. Other words for neigbhour are "fqinj", probably from Latin (I'm just sayin' probably but not sure) but since i don't know Latin i can only give the Italian equivalent which is "vicino" and the probably Turkish loan one "komshi".

"Gjiton" is an Albanian word, loan word or an derivate word from the Albanian "ngjitur" (very close, very near) (Just an assumption)
 
I got reminded by Yetos, thank you for that, of this Albanian word, sorta old and rarely used by the new generations these days, "gjiton" meaning "neigbhour" and mainly used in Southern Albania, from Gjirokastër down to the Greek border and by the Chams and as Yetos reminded this, by the Arvanits too. Other words for neigbhour are "fqinj", probably from Latin (I'm just sayin' probably but not sure) but since i don't know Latin i can only give the Italian equivalent which is "vicino" and the probably Turkish loan one "komshi".

"Gjiton" is an Albanian word, loan word or an derivate word from the Albanian "ngjitur" (very close, very near) (Just an assumption)

Albanian "gjiton" is almost certainly a native word in my opinion, and derived from PIE *gwei- ("to live"), which is also the root of Latin "vita", Greek "bios" and English "quick".

"fqinj" might be from Latin "vicinus" ("neighbour"), but the change *v- > *f- is peculiar.

"komshi" is certainly a Turkic loanword (modern Turkish "komşu").
 
Albanian "gjiton" is almost certainly a native word in my opinion, and derived from PIE *gwei- ("to live"), which is also the root of Latin "vita", Greek "bios" and English "quick".

"fqinj" might be from Latin "vicinus" ("neighbour"), but the change *v- > *f- is peculiar.

"komshi" is certainly a Turkic loanword (modern Turkish "komşu").

nope I dont agree,
γειτων geiton

«Ή μεγ’ Αθηναίοισι φόως γένεθ’, ηνίκ΄Αριστογείτων Ίππαρχον κτείναι και Αρμόδιος»

Σιμωνιδης ο Κειος (Simonides)

the word exist in ancient Greek
Νεαρός άνδρας που μαζί με το σύντροφό του Αρμόδιο δολοφόνησαν το 514 π.Χ. για λόγους κυρίως ερωτικής αντιζηλίας και εξαιτίας προσωπικών προσβολών των Πεισιστρατίδη τύραννο Ίππαρχο

http://el.wiktionary.org/wiki/Αριστογείτων

the word means neighbor γειτνια - γειτονια = neighborhood, (γειτνιασις = in the same neghborhood)

I don't know if it is connected with Βιος bios-vios but exist before 500 BC
the name of 1 of Tyrraktonoi Tyrranoktonoi (tyrant Kilers or Tyrrenian killers) is aristogeitOn Αριστογειτων = αριστος+γειτων = good neighbor

the word at least in Greek is connected with gaia γαια (land earth) or keitai κειται (stay lay)
its meaning in Greek is gaia + on γαια +ων the one who lives in the land
or from keitai+on Κειται+ων the one who stay near, the neighbor,
if you want search virb κειμαι and κειτωμαι (compare Κοιτη ποταμου - river bad)
(fabulous tomb sign ενθαδε κειται or κειτονται)

Lysias λυσιας in his epithaph say πολλὰ μὲν καλά καὶ θαυμαστά οἱ πρόγονοι τῶν ἐνθάδε κειμένων ἠργάσαντο,
the word means the one who lay here, who stay her,

so when in Greek we say who is next to you or sleep next to you or eats next to you, we say who is your παρα-κειμενος. in a 3rd person is para-keitontes παρα-κειτοντες so all near me are γειτονες geitones

I think γειτονες γειτονοι geitones geitoni is a shift of Κειτοντες keitontes.


I don't know if the word is PIE but is far ancient in Greek that exists in Homeric meaning mostly lay, rest, and not like βιος βιωνω etc although it might have have same root *gwei but I don't think so, Bios βιος is mostly connected with Avis




I got reminded by Yetos, thank you for that, of this Albanian word, sorta old and rarely used by the new generations these days, "gjiton" meaning "neigbhour" and mainly used in Southern Albania, from Gjirokastër down to the Greek border and by the Chams and as Yetos reminded this, by the Arvanits too. Other words for neigbhour are "fqinj", probably from Latin (I'm just sayin' probably but not sure) but since i don't know Latin i can only give the Italian equivalent which is "vicino" and the probably Turkish loan one "komshi".

no need to thank, searching help all of us, no matter the mistakes we all do.

search for he word Loderne which means music.
 
Last edited:
Albanian "gjiton" is almost certainly a native word in my opinion, and derived from PIE *gwei- ("to live"), which is also the root of Latin "vita", Greek "bios" and English "quick".

"fqinj" might be from Latin "vicinus" ("neighbour"), but the change *v- > *f- is peculiar.

"komshi" is certainly a Turkic loanword (modern Turkish "komşu").
You're right relating to the Albanian words "fqinj" and "komshi" but I'm afraid you're not for "gjiton".
It's a very ancient word, Yetos is right on that point. Its wordroot is well preserved in Gheg "ghit" (stick, paste) or standard Albanian "ngjit".
"Ghitun" is the participle of "ghit" in Gheg (in standard Albanian "ngjitur").
"E ghituna" (def. adj. noun) literally means "the what is very close to" (I can't find a proper word now).
May be it cognates with "gift".
 
You're right relating to the Albanian words "fqinj" and "komshi" but I'm afraid you're not for "gjiton".
It's a very ancient word, Yetos is right on that point.

That statement makes absoluetly no sense: my proposed etymology was that the word is derived from PIE (ie. "native" to it's own language), Yetos proposed that it is a loanword. To say that it is "a very ancient word" in that context makes no sense because the Greek loanword would be obviously younger.

Its wordroot is well preserved in Gheg "ghit" (stick, paste) or standard Albanian "ngjit".
"Ghitun" is the participle of "ghit" in Gheg (in standard Albanian "ngjitur").
"E ghituna" (def. adj. noun) literally means "the what is very close to" (I can't find a proper word now).
May be it cognates with "gift".

Sorry but that makes no sense, you can't equated *g- and *gj- More of your magic word dismantlements? Also, from "to stick" and "to paste" to "neighbour" makes semantically absolutely no sense.

In any case, I think that Yetos' proposed etymology is probably more likely than the one I suggested because it's semantically more sensible.
 
That statement makes absoluetly no sense: my proposed etymology was that the word is derived from PIE (ie. "native" to it's own language), Yetos proposed that it is a loanword. To say that it is "a very ancient word" in that context makes no sense because the Greek loanword would be obviously younger.



Sorry but that makes no sense, you can't equated *g- and *gj- More of your magic word dismantlements? Also, from "to stick" and "to paste" to "neighbour" makes semantically absolutely no sense.

In any case, I think that Yetos' proposed etymology is probably more likely than the one I suggested because it's semantically more sensible.



Nope I did not say it is a loan word, I said that it is an ancient word that means I stay next I lay next and not I Live,
my proposal is to find another PIE root than Bios βιος, since the existance of virb Κειμαι does not mean live,
what I mean is the PIE root *gwei as live does not fit with γειτων and gjitun .

But you are right in a point, the existance of γειτων and Gjitun in these 2 language
either means that is a local BalKanic word,
either that is IE word if it is found in another IE language
either that is a borrow-loan word,
the possibility that both are from *gwei but with another meaning I do not know if it stands,

But I am sure that the Greek is Κειτοντες and become γειτων (giton) foolowing inner Greek laws
virb Κειμαι noun κειτων ->γειτων
while Albanian is Giton in Arbanitika and Gjitun as Endri say in Geg Albanian.

I wonder the word-virb lay how is in PIE
or the word Γειωσις geiosis which means stick to ground.

the case of meaning stick to something. fits only with ground, but as next has a meaning of stick,
the next is the closest the one who is 'stick' with me, who is 'bind' to me

Taranis could it be a non IE word?
 
Nope I did not say it is a loan word, I said that it is an ancient word that means I stay next I lay next and not I Live,
my proposal is to find another PIE root than Bios βιος, since the existance of virb Κειμαι does not mean live,
what I mean is the PIE root *gwei as live does not fit with γειτων and gjitun .

But you are right in a point, the existance of γειτων and Gjitun in these 2 language
either means that is a local BalKanic word,
either that is IE word if it is found in another IE language
either that is a borrow-loan word,
the possibility that both are from *gwei but with another meaning I do not know if it stands,

But I am sure that the Greek is Κειτοντες and become γειτων (giton) foolowing inner Greek laws
virb Κειμαι noun κειτων ->γειτων
while Albanian is Giton in Arbanitika and Gjitun as Endri say in Geg Albanian.

I wonder the word-virb lay how is in PIE
or the word Γειωσις geiosis which means stick to ground.

the case of meaning stick to something. fits only with ground, but as next has a meaning of stick,
the next is the closest the one who is 'stick' with me, who is 'bind' to me

Taranis could it be a non IE word?
I think it's an IE word, may be it comes from PIE *ghedh- "to join, to unite".
As a matter of fact, Albanian "ngjit" means "to stick" or "to join".
The problem is: how is it possible that the Albanian participle of "ghit" ("ghitun" or "gjitun") be similar with
γειτων.
 
There are numerous Greek and Latin words which come to be very much alike with Albanian participles, eg:
“mat” (v) = “measure”, “weigh”;
“matur” = the participle of “mat”;
“i matur” (adj. masc.) = 1- “prudent”; 2- “measured” (adj);
“e matur” (adj. fem.) = 1- “prudent”; 2- “measured” (adj);
“e matura” (def. adj. noun) = 1- “the what is prudent”; 2- “the what is measured”;
“maturi” = “prudence”, “providence”, “caution”;
“maturia” = “the prudence”.
As we can see, the Albanian “maturi” (prudence) does not come from Latin “mature” (ripe).
Here is the Albanian word “pjek” (ripe):
“pjek” = “ripe”;
“pjekur” = the participle of “pjek”;
“i pjekur” (adj.) = “mature”, “ripe”;
“djale i pjekur” = “mature boy”
“pjekuri” = “maturity”, “ripeness”.
At the first sight, there is no relation of Albanian “maturi” (prudence) and latin “mature” (ripe), but their meanings are very much similar.
Well, may be it’s a coincidence. The problem is that such coincidences are more than hundreds, may be thousands.
Can someone explain it?
 
search for he word Loderne which means music.

No need to, "Loderne" (if it written correctely, but even if it isn't doesn't really matter) would be the equivalent of the modern Albanian "Lodër" (toy), but it is know that the meaning of "lodër" as toy is recent. It's original meaning was "to play", "to dance" or "to sing and dance" at the same time, as mentioned in the Albanian Epos and a lot of myths and such, mainly in it's verb form, "lodrojnë" as "lodrojnë shtojzovallet" or "lodronin vashat nëpër bjeshkë/male" or whatever place you can think off.

Clear with the etymology of "loderne" (?) which most likely is "lodrënë".

And Hal Fao, a loan word cannot be more ancient than a original PIE word...that didn't made any sense at all.
 
No need to, "Loderne" (if it written correctely, but even if it isn't doesn't really matter) would be the equivalent of the modern Albanian "Lodër" (toy), but it is know that the meaning of "lodër" as toy is recent. It's original meaning was "to play", "to dance" or "to sing and dance" at the same time, as mentioned in the Albanian Epos and a lot of myths and such, mainly in it's verb form, "lodrojnë" as "lodrojnë shtojzovallet" or "lodronin vashat nëpër bjeshkë/male" or whatever place you can think off.


Clear with the etymology of "loderne" (?) which most likely is "lodrënë".

And Hal Fao, a loan word cannot be more ancient than a original PIE word...that didn't made any sense at all.

you are right, it is Lodrene, I just check it, sorry for writing it wrong


try this

Ljiaese na pergouljia

Do ta press kotsidet gliate

nte tsi throuim nte i tate

Lieto vente (vante) filaki


bante tsoupra te billete lioulie !!!!!
 
Ljiaese na pergouljia

Do ta press kotsidet gliate

nte tsi throuim nte i tate

Lieto vente (vante) filaki


bante tsoupra te billete lioulie !!!!!

On a first look...

-pergouljia, probably përgojoja (defame)

-Do ta press is exactly as modern Albanian with the only exception that press has one /s/ (pres)

-Kotsided, probably "koqet" (Balls)

-Gliate, which more likely is written Gljate (Cause if after /glj/ is a vocal it becomes /gj/) is the Albanian "gjatë" (long first meaning but in this case has more like the meaning he will cut his balls in lots of pieces)

-The third row is the hardest cause "nte" "tsi" don't make any sense and are weird combination for Albanian as are "Ljiaese", "throuim" and "lioulie", cause I've never seen an Albanian word with three vocals one after another, even 2 is very rare.

-tate is most likely tënde (yours)

-Lieto i guess is a name

-Vente (went) same as modern Albanian though and old and sorta childish form

-filaki probably filani

-bante is the Albanian bënte (did)

-tsoupra either copa (pieces) (ts=c) or thupra (twigs)

-billete, maybe bilet (Balls)


Note: Gjiton or Giton is not Gheg Yetos. It is predominately used from Gjirokastër and below but it is mainly a Tosk word and i know for sure that in the Berat area it was used a lot (at least prior to WWII) since my grandma was born there and she uses that word.
 
you are right, it is Lodrene, I just check it, sorry for writing it wrong


try this

Ljiaese na pergouljia

Do ta press kotsidet gliate

nte tsi throuim nte i tate

Lieto vente (vante) filaki


bante tsoupra te billete lioulie !!!!!

what is that from?
 
also i will post this again cause i think nobody saw my post

"can someine give me explanation for this: albanian "buke" means "bread" and Orel derives it from Latin "bucca" meaning "mouth". Why this cannot be derived from phrygian (Tracian maybe connections with illyrian) "bekos" meaning "bread" (and even further PIE *bheHg-)?

ps i am not 100% sure but there are also other albanian words where *e reflected in *u later. i will check and post if i find them"
 
also i will post this again cause i think nobody saw my post

"can someine give me explanation for this: albanian "buke" means "bread" and Orel derives it from Latin "bucca" meaning "mouth". Why this cannot be derived from phrygian (Tracian maybe connections with illyrian) "bekos" meaning "bread" (and even further PIE *bheHg-)?

ps i am not 100% sure but there are also other albanian words where *e reflected in *u later. i will check and post if i find them"

Bucca Baker Serbian Pekara Brygian Bekos means something Bread, or a baked a food
 
Albanian "gjiton" is almost certainly a native word in my opinion, and derived from PIE *gwei- ("to live"), which is also the root of Latin "vita", Greek "bios" and English "quick".

"fqinj" might be from Latin "vicinus" ("neighbour"), but the change *v- > *f- is peculiar.

"komshi" is certainly a Turkic loanword (modern Turkish "komşu").

Gjiton native word?
Zitel in Macedonian slavic = Inhabitant
Who is the native here? Supporting something without knowledge is very dangerous.
 
On a first look...

-pergouljia, probably përgojoja (defame)

-Do ta press is exactly as modern Albanian with the only exception that press has one /s/ (pres)

-Kotsided, probably "koqet" (Balls)

-Gliate, which more likely is written Gljate (Cause if after /glj/ is a vocal it becomes /gj/) is the Albanian "gjatë" (long first meaning but in this case has more like the meaning he will cut his balls in lots of pieces)

-The third row is the hardest cause "nte" "tsi" don't make any sense and are weird combination for Albanian as are "Ljiaese", "throuim" and "lioulie", cause I've never seen an Albanian word with three vocals one after another, even 2 is very rare.

-tate is most likely tënde (yours)

-Lieto i guess is a name

-Vente (went) same as modern Albanian though and old and sorta childish form

-filaki probably filani

-bante is the Albanian bënte (did)

-tsoupra either copa (pieces) (ts=c) or thupra (twigs)

-billete, maybe bilet (Balls)


Note: Gjiton or Giton is not Gheg Yetos. It is predominately used from Gjirokastër and below but it is mainly a Tosk word and i know for sure that in the Berat area it was used a lot (at least prior to WWII) since my grandma was born there and she uses that word.


ok explanation maybe will help

Arbanitan from 4 islands Ydra island

Ljiaese na perguljia major meaning is you get a bath a wash under the vineyard, or you take a sunbath under a vineyard,
I have seen both translations but more possible is first

Arbanitan of North AThens and Leyktra
do ta press kotsidet gliate, nte tsi throuim nte i tate, Do ta pres kotsidet, lieto vente (vante) filaki
I will cut your big (long) pigtails, but I afraid your father I will cut your pigtails, let me go (even if I have to go) to prison

Kleft Arbanites of Thessaly
bante tsupra te billete lioulie
go girl (lady - miss) to gather flowers

if you can't find I can help you find connection with other non Albanian words or difficult to understand
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

This thread has been viewed 295984 times.

Back
Top