Macedonians

Greek without the real language and root "Phoenician alphabet", is nothing and nobody cared to speak it today, its over with the crap language. Even the ancient Macedonians didnt give a damn about it, used for all others to understand the common language in antiquity, like english is today. Modern Greek and Albanian language does not sound European at all. The Greek Civilization using others progress, who was not theirs, did not last long.

Iapetoc
Who do you think has more sources that can build their own constructions about alleged descedents of Ancient Macedonians?

Albanians,

Slav Macedonians,

Nobody of them.

Garrick said:

Iapetoc
Who do you think has more sources that can build their own constructions about alleged descedents of Ancient Macedonians?

Albanians,

Slav Macedonians,

Nobody of them.

Click to expand...

Macedonia will never join Serbia, how much you even try to write crap here. Maybe Greece, Albania or Kosovo will be your new home because you like them very well, you keep writing about them all the time.

DejaVu said:

Macedonia will never join Serbia, how much you even try to write crap here. Maybe Greece, Albania or Kosovo will be your new home because you like them very well, you keep writing about them all the time.

Click to expand...

DejaVu
you gave me the epithets so far is really does not make sense, someone else in my place would cease to talk with you, and personally I do not want a rematch words, this means, we can speak the power of arguments, ideas, sources and so on, but without the personal insults.

I am a researcher, just when I get into a topic I want to explore it from all sides.

For example, you completely ignore the Albanians and Albanian sources.

I do not ignore anyone, and the Albanians are certainly not to be underestimated, nor their history or the present, and you see Albanians proclaim they are descedents of Ancient Macedonians and they refer to a variety of sources.

Garric

the connection among Makedonians Illyrians and Thracians is very well written in Arrian
soon a war is going to happened
every body knows that

I can't tell the alliances

but Yugoslavia war is nothing to compare with what is coming

oil drilling in Albania Greece Turkey Cyprus Bulgaria and pipes to Europe
why do you thing UN NATO have army in Fyrom????
the crossroad and the center to provide

now about Ancient Makedonians is more complex
the central Makedonia was Argeian Dynasty from north Thessaly
Greeks near Thracians with Greco-Thracian accent
The west Makedonians were Aeolians with Illyro-Thrasian accent
above Makedonia were also Thrasians and Illyrians
The Doberes (dobre) and the Paeonians ->near to slavic people
above the west Makedonians were dardani Illyro thracians
the Makedonia started with 4 cities (heracleia Dion Pydna Balla) later took lands of Vrygi (edessa-Aiges-Pella) wich were a nation semi Greek semi thracian,
they had Greek isotones and many grammar laws like Greek but a Tyrrshenian semi Greek semi east Thracian
the Boettians, Cretans who invade Makedonia at 1100 BC moved east south oF doiran lake and north of Chalkidiki next to mygnonians

later Amyntas unite Mygdonians Boettians Aianes(aeolians) and Illyro-thracian of Ochrid to a state, a kingom,
that is why many Makedonian pellasioi (nobles-prince-barons)
could not speak south Greek,
and that is why makedonians pronounced v the f etc
if you read Areianos you see the connections of some families with Greco-Illyrians
example Kleitos (general)
the system was 1 emperor with a council of elder city kings
a council of Generals, and a council of prince
for example ex athenean collony had a prince not a King
I can't remember for sure but at Phillips times were 13 kings and generals and 26 prince and ambassadors and lower commanders
at Alexanders times reach the 100 near India
By what I remember before Phillip were 2 Illyrian-Makedonian and 3 Thracian (1 king Dobere-Paeoni (Amphaxitis-Skopje) named Driop and general Demetrius and 2 other ambassadors from elsewhere)

the connection is written in Arrian mainly

also in lost books of Pergamos and Alexandreia
and all peculiar in a Uzbek book !!!!!!!!

REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA
MACEDONIAN LANGUAGE
ETHNIC MACEDONIANS
EXIST

So keep on spamming whatever you want. Does not matter what you write and your stupid claims have failed, now you seek someone to accept your versions of reality. In other words, get help in time.

Macedonian is not a distinct enough language to be seperate, its more a branch of the south slavic languages. Ethnic macedonians don't exist, the slavs in FYROM call themselves macedonian but I could call myself native aboriginal of canada and it would be the same logic. Macedonia doesn't exist, its FYROM until a comprimise has been reached.

Have a good day dejavu

Hellenik rebublic
ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ region
ethnicitie :makedonik
nationality: Hellenik
languge: Monder hellenik, hellenistic koine a & b, makedonian dialect


republic of macedonja
ethnicitie unknown
nationality Slavic
language Bulgarski (Macedonski dialect), Albanian, Srpski


keep dreaming dejavu
we will always be here

Most sources in and out of Bulgaria before the Second World War referred to the southern Slavonic dialect continuum covering the area of today's Republic of Macedonia as a group of Bulgarian dialects.[16][17][18][19][20][21] The local variants of the name of the language are balgàrtski, bolgàrtski, bulgàrtski,[22] bògartski, bogàrtski, bùgarski or bugàrski. Some linguists consider them still as such, but this view is politically controversial.[23][24][25] After WWII, the question about the Bulgarian character of the language in the territory of the Republic of Macedonia was put aside in the name of Bulgarian-Yugoslavian friendship under the pressure of the Soviet Union. After 1958 when the pressure from Moscow decreased, Sofia turned back to the view that the Macedonian language did not exist as a separate language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_language

Besides Genetics proved that Fyrom is more Relative with Serbia and Bosna than with Makedonia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_language

DejaVu

Greece is the cradle of European civilization and culture.

In Greece is developed democracy, philosophy, mathematics, natural and social sciences, drama, Olympics and others.

The thought of Greece every true European inspire appreciation and respect.

Europe would never be what it is that it was not Greece.

When I think that should travel to Greece delight because I go into this wonderful country (but I didn’t go often and will intensify in coming years).

Historical facts.

Start of European history begins with the the Greeks.


And what about Macedonia FYROM?

• founded in 1945 by the Communists as a republic within the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia

• before World War II was in the territory of the Vardar Banovina of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia,

• before that was the territory of Serbia who establish the Kingdom of Yugoslavia,

• before that was part of the Ottoman Empire,

• and before that in the Byzantine Empire, Serbia or Bulgaria.


DejaVu
deny if any of this is not true.

But everything is completely true.


Compare 5000 years of Greece and 65 years Macedonia FYROM.

These are facts and true, all the rest are deposits of ideology, propaganda and delusion.

Garrick said:

DejaVu
...
I am a researcher, just when I get into a topic I want to explore it from all sides.

Click to expand...

your posts on this topic do not strike me as researcher kind of posts...more like claiming the things you think will affect DejaVu's emotions the most... perhaps you are into research of human psyche, but to be researcher in history of nations you need to be much more objective....

I do not ignore anyone, ...

Click to expand...

sure you do... you have taken side in this topic...and your side is "against DejaVu", so you ignore all his arguments... some of his arguments are useless as he tends to uncritically transfer what he reads...but some make lot of sense...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract
Abstract
HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks.

Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians, 2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum, 3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups.
Villena 2001 claims that Macedonians are one of the most ancient peoples existing in the Balkan peninsula, probably long before arrival of the "Mycaenian Greeks",Greeks are genetically related to sub-Saharans...



ETHNIC MACEDONIANS OLDEST IN BALKAN (LONGER HISTORY THEN GREEKS).
WAS IN BALKAN BEFORE GREEKS, SERBS, ALBANIANS AND BULGARIANS.

ALZHEIMER IN GARRICK´S NATIONALISTIC HEAD. WHEN WILL YOU START WRITING ABOUT THE SERBIAN HISTORY? NEVER, BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO CLUE. YOU TRIED TO SHOW ALL WITH DIENEKES GENETIC TEST THAT MACEDONIANS ARE SERBS BUT YOU FAILED AND YOU WILL FAIL ALL THE TIME NOW. YOU ARE A BIG LOSER JUST ADMIT IT. FAIL LIKE YOUR GREEK ALLIES THAT HAVE LOST ALL STATEMENTS WITH THE BIBLE, ETHNIC MACEDONIANS WAS BULGARIANS, ETHINC MACEDONIANS DONT EXIST, GREEKS ARE A MIX OF MANY PEOPLE BUT CONTINUED DENIAL, GREEK HISTORY MADE BY OTHERS AND NOT BY GREEKS. GENETIC TEST SHOWED THEY ARE SUB-SAHARAN THAT THEY DENIE, WHAT MORE IS THERE TO PROOF? CONTINUED DENIAL WONT SAVE GREEKS AND YOU HAVE ALREADY BEEN REVEALED. CONCLUSION: GREEKS ARE FAKE = FACT

iapetoc said:

Garric

the connection among Makedonians Illyrians and Thracians is very well written in Arrian

Click to expand...

hm, can you quote some sources?
if there is such a connection, it might as well be about Slavic-alike people as Thracians are satem speakers like Balts, Slavs and Albanians...

soon a war is going to happened
every body knows that

I can't tell the alliances

but Yugoslavia war is nothing to compare with what is coming

Click to expand...

wars are never really good for any of the people who participate in them...
do not hope for a war, and doubt in alliances promised before war...

last years there is obvious attempt to establish Turkish area of influence in Balkan...to revive Ottoman empire....so far it goes via business and politics... few days ago Turkish minister of external affairs was talking fairy tales about Balkan having been prosperous place while it was in Ottoman empire...

if there will be big war in Balkans in next few years, Greece will not be in good position as Turkey have stronger army ... and NATO will not interfere in war between member states... my advice to Greece is to avoid any armed conflict with any of its neighbors in next decade.... as any war in region can escalate easily....

for Macedonia any war in region is also extremely dangerous as it has very weak army....

iapetoc said:

Hellenik rebublic
ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ region
ethnicitie :makedonik
nationality: Hellenik
languge: Monder hellenik, hellenistic koine a & b, makedonian dialect


republic of macedonja
ethnicitie unknown
nationality Slavic
language Bulgarski (Macedonski dialect), Albanian, Srpski


keep dreaming dejavu
we will always be here

Most sources in and out of Bulgaria before the Second World War referred to the southern Slavonic dialect continuum covering the area of today's Republic of Macedonia as a group of Bulgarian dialects.[16][17][18][19][20][21] The local variants of the name of the language are balgàrtski, bolgàrtski, bulgàrtski,[22] bògartski, bogàrtski, bùgarski or bugàrski. Some linguists consider them still as such, but this view is politically controversial.[23][24][25] After WWII, the question about the Bulgarian character of the language in the territory of the Republic of Macedonia was put aside in the name of Bulgarian-Yugoslavian friendship under the pressure of the Soviet Union. After 1958 when the pressure from Moscow decreased, Sofia turned back to the view that the Macedonian language did not exist as a separate language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_language

Besides Genetics proved that Fyrom is more Relative with Serbia and Bosna than with Makedonia

Click to expand...

MODERN GREEKS
Ethnicity: Christian Turks with Arvanites (Albanians) who play the role of modern (even ancient) Greeks.
Language: Mix of Turkish and Koine (Byzantine common language and adopted to the modern Greeks).
Genetics: Non-European, (Sub-Saharan)

MODERN MACEDONIANS
Ethnicity: Original Macedonians (Was Macedonians and will continue to be Macedonians)
Language: Macedonian (One of the oldest languages in Europe and root to all slavic languages)
Genetics: Oldest Balkan people (Original Macedonians)

THERE IS EVIDENCE OF THIS FACTS, JUST SEE THE OTHER POSTS IN SAME THREAD (Macedonians).

Macedonian is the origin of all slavic languages Webster Dictionary year 1967-1969!


Taken from the Webster Dictionary 1967-1969.



What is the name of the language? MACEDONIAN
Who speak Macedonian? MACEDONIANS


FACT!

WHOS FLAG? MACEDONIA
PEOPLE? MACEDONIANS




FACT!

DO THEY LOOK LIKE SUB-SAHARANS (GREEKS)?


WHO IS THIS? PHILIP II OF MACEDON
ETHNICITY: MACEDONIAN


WHO IS THIS? ALEXANDER III OF MACEDON
ETHNICITY: MACEDONIAN


FACT!

How yes no,
You can see how ugly words DejaVu said about me and I almost nothing about him except as a most necessary defense.

But he does not understand what I want to say.

I give you examples of what he says:

DejaVu said:

Maybe Greece, Albania or Kosovo will be your new home because you like them very well, you keep writing about them all the time.

Click to expand...

DejaVu said:

Kosovo is impossible to solve but the other balkan countries got no problem (only FYRO Macedonia with Greece about the name issue and identity).

Click to expand...

DejaVu said:

Sorry, but I havent seen so much ugly people as Albanians, take it as a comment Shqiptari.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-zEWFSPUCU - "see for yourself - albanian faces"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iggt2sy_-Ao - Albanians are actually Arabs (German documentary)

Click to expand...

He very underestimates Albanians and thinks that his only problem is with the Greeks.

But I can put thousands of sources referred from the Albanians that they are descendants of ancient Macedonia, and these sources are very, very serious and are not to be underestimated.

He looks only his sources, and disregards the other.

The problem, however, as the Slav Macedonians sources are thin.

When I talking in Macedonia FYROM about ancient roots individuals are invited to Aromanians and some other minorities who are not Greek or Albanian.

And sources are mainly writings some Slav Macedonian researchers.

But believe me, how yes no, Albanian sources are much more serious and there are many Western and other scientists since the nineteenth century till today who in some way connected the Illyrians/Albanians with the ancient Macedonians.

Albanian scientists have developed a whole science about it and the sources have much more weight, four Western scientists I have already demonstrated and their biographies.

And new researchings is highly favor the Albanians, I mentioned research E1b1b1 haplogroups in Pakistan, and if you want I will mention one other discovery, archaeological, which gave wings to the Albanians claim that they are descendents of Ancient Macedonians.

How yes no,
imagine a situation where you can find Slav Macedonians how construct of ancient buildings and ancient statues placed in Skopje and proclaim the antiquity at every turn and in the meantime it appears irrefutably a discovery about the Illyrian/Albanian history of ancient Macedonia.

Does it even can imagine what would have happened in this situation?

Because if Albanians agree dice and find compelling evidence, and already have some arguments, playing Slav Macedonians on the card ancient Macedonia is a wrong strategy that leads to disaster.

I’m not Albanian or Serbian or Greek nationalist, just a real person who points out the reality and not illusion.

WHAT COUNTRY? REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA
PEOPLE? MACEDONIANS


FLAG? MACEDONIAN

WHERE DO THE MACEDONIANS LIVE?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)


FACT!

garrick said:

lebrok

iapetoc is macedonian (greece).

Dejavu is slavic macedonian (macedonia, fyrom).

The ancient macedonians according to historical sources, most likely the dorian tribe makednoi.
Slavomacedonians are closest serbs according to research haplogroup.

scientific analysis of dna results
dieckens decided to investigate the correlations between haplogroup frequencies in southeastern europe and some neighboring populations.

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2005/08/haplogroup-frequency-correlations-in.html

labels are as follows:

gre: Greece
ser: Serbia
sma: Slavic macedonia (fyrom)
her: Herzegovina
bos: Bosnia
alb: Albania
kal: Kosovo albanians
slo: Slovenia
cro: Croatia
ukr: Ukraine
tur: Turkey
hun: Hungary
rom: Romania
ita: Italy

you can see his results on map.

i tried to introduce changes for serbia and montenegro, mne (based on mirabal et al 2010) and albania, gal gege albanians and tal tosk albanians (according ferri et al, 2010).

the differences are as follows:

ser has moved somewhat closer to the left to her and bos;

if would be introduced in the picture gal (geges albanians) that would be slightly lower than the kal;

if would be injected also a tal (tosk albanians) that would not be much moved over in comparison to alb;

if would be introduced montenegro it would be about halfway between the diagonal and gal ser.


despite these changes for serbia would be the closest to the left bosnia (bos) again the right macedonia fyrom apropos macedonia fyrom is by far the closest to serbia.


in the original dieckens paper serbia and macedonia fyrom are almost folded, which indicates a high congruence of population.

Click to expand...

This is how the insult started.
Garrick (Arvanite Greek with Serbian flag) started to claim something that was 100% wrong. I was slavo macedonian and iapetoc macedonian? When both are haplogroup G? Proof 0%.
Dienekes test was not relevant neither accepted by any real genetic research company and will never be accepted if not done with all haplogroups of the countries, he mixed up what would be the best for Greeks (Fake result) = ethnic Macedonians are close to Serbs, thats why they are Serbs and can not be Ancient Macedonians. Serbians and macedonians are not same and never will be, get that in your brain.
You maybe thought you could get away from your hidden agenda, but nobody will get away that easy.
You (Garrick) havent posted anything relevant anywhere and you continue with posting same spam about your love for albanians and greeks all the time, soon it will be a report to moderator to exclude you of this forum.

dejavu said:

modern greeks
ethnicity: christian turks with arvanites (albanians) who play the role of modern (even ancient) greeks.
language: mix of turkish and koine (byzantine common language and adopted to the modern greeks).
genetics: non-european, (sub-saharan)

modern macedonians
ethnicity: original macedonians (was macedonians and will continue to be macedonians)
language: macedonian (one of the oldest languages in europe and root to all slavic languages)
genetics: oldest balkan people (original macedonians)

there is evidence of this facts, just see the other posts in same thread (macedonians).

Click to expand...

"Macedonian is the origin of all slavic languages Webster Dictionary year 1967-1969!"



how yes no

does that make sense? with This?

Most sources in and out of Bulgaria before the Second World War referred to the southern Slavonic dialect continuum covering the area of today's Republic of Macedonia as a group of Bulgarian dialects.[16][17][18][19][20][21] The local variants of the name of the language are balgàrtski, bolgàrtski, bulgàrtski,[22] bògartski, bogàrtski, bùgarski or bugàrski. Some linguists consider them still as such, but this view is politically controversial.[23][24][25] After WWII, the question about the Bulgarian character of the language in the territory of the Republic of Macedonia was put aside in the name of Bulgarian-Yugoslavian friendship under the pressure of the Soviet Union. After 1958 when the pressure from Moscow decreased, Sofia turned back to the view that the Macedonian language did not exist as a separate language.


Does the Quote Make sence with this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Map_Peloponnesian_War_431_BC-en.svg
or this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Map_Macedonia_336_BC-en.svg

watch Fyrom AT Makedonian kingdom times
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Paeonians.png



now HOW YES NO
do you understand????

LOOK THE GENETIC SIMILARITY OF FYROM AND SERBIA AND BOSNIA
THE FYROM IS MORE SERBIAN THAN SERBIA
WHY? BECAUSE IN TESTS IS A BIG ALBANIAN E-V13 WHICH IS FROM ALBANIAN MINORITY
Albanians are 30% of population and have 45% E-V13
so if you make the mathematical references then you see that Fyrom is Near 40% I2a
same as Serbia and almost Bosnia
Now about Culture and Language are more connected with the medieval Western Bulgarian Culture and Language

The Truth is that many times I was wondering if I2a has to do with ancient Thracians
But Many times I come back from Thoukidides when says that Athens spoke Tyrrshenian before Greek

the fact is that Thracians ruled upon many cultures or learn Language from J2
(Greco-Aryan approach not Kurgan-Hypothesis)
Greco-Thracians
North East Daci-Thracians
East Odrysse-Thracians
West Illyro-Thracians
Central and North-West tribes that were carriers of I2a (fyrom Bosnia Serbia etc)
Minor Asia Thracians, Italy Thracians
the linguistic and culture connection is bigger as long we back until almost 2-3 000 BC
and it is different before

Today modern Bulgarian and Dacian are trying to connect their language with Ancient Thracian
for example even claim to be Thracian as also Kossovo, turkey etc
crete spain italy the bull is Toro or tavro or tauro
Athens is BOLOS Thessaly Makedonia is BOLinthros
Bulgarian Fyrom is BOL
Serbian Croatian HUngarian is BIK
but the calf is
Crete ThessalianEast Makedonian Vodali VIDALI (itali Vitalli)
Aromanian-armani, albanian is Damali Demi
Athens Central-West Makedonia Moschos Mouskar
Bulgarian Fyrom Serbia Ucraine Telec
the last is according History
meaning that the word 'telec' came from Ucraine to Balkans
at Slavic invasions times (500-600 AD)_
and not from south-central Balkans (Fyrom) to Ucraine
as Dejavu claims
"Macedonian is the origin of all slavic languages"
But the BOL-BOLOS-Bolinthros tells us that Athens and Bulgaria had similar Language before
(tyrrshenian)

as you see linguistic the lines although they connect, although they divide,
Many works that have been done by linguists gave similarity by majority of words (mainly not IE)
and not by one or few, that leads to connection of nations before times
as also Genetic engineering does
you can not have N Y-dna and claim to be ancient Hollander
you maybe are Hollander cause your family lived there 50-1000 years etc and you are assimilated
But that does not mean that Ancient Hollanders were N

AM I CLEAR HOW YES NO?