Macedonians

Now Makedonia Means long hair in Attic and Cousin In Greco Thracian-Vrygian
Homeric Greek: ammatho êmathoessa, sandy land , PIE *samadh ; the coastal, swampy land around Axius river, in contrast to mountainous Macedonia .
It is not sandy. Even it is fertile land, which produce a lot of grains.

It was made sandy, because make sense in Hellenic language. But it is not sandy.

Even, I dont understand why do you link Emathia with greek, while as ancient authors have said, Emathia was called so in the pelasgian time, so it is pelasgian word,

And Pelasgian didnt spoke hellenic.

for your information Aigea The capital is after the name of ancient Aiginion in Histia in thessaly, as also Pella means old like mt Pellion,
For your information, Aiges was called after Goats, (you know the story).

According to Herodot, it was Dorus, the son of Hellen who led his people to Histaeotis, whence they were driven off by the Cadmeians into Pindus, where they settled as Macedonians. Later, a branch would migrate further south to be called Dorians.
Hellen, and Dorus didnt exist. It is mythic story about the creation of the hellenic nation.

Hellenic nation, was created after they separated from pelasgian. So pelasgian and illyrian in origin, they separated from them, and became Hellenes.

Thare is only on nation/race/language, until 8-th century, but it has not its proper name, because they never were politically united. But it was only one language/race/nation.

Illyrians and Hellens, it is the same name. Helios, which in albanian and illyrian became Hyll, we can see the root word H*L.

I said, the balkan historian, who doesnt know albanian language, is a BLIND HISTORIAN.

Just tell me what is the origin of word "BATRAXOS"???????????
 
Even we knoe some of words which are clearly albanian:

Macedonian - Albanian - English
Baskioi - Bashkoj - Unite, together, etc
Bathara - Batha

Macedonian - Illyrian
Sigyna - Sibyna

While Sigyna is linked to albanian Shigjete (archer), Sibyna is linked to albanian (Thuper).

But definitely, Macedonians were a mix of two kindred nations: Illyrians (west) and Thracians (east), as are the today albanians.
 
We must return our eyes to an older language which preceded greek nation.

Greek nation was formed circa 8-th century, as a separated from Pelasgians, Illyrians, and Thracians. There was only one nation until 8-th century.

But then the greeks separated, because of asiatic influence (orientalizing period, phoenician alphabet, the myth of Deluge taken from the semits etc). For example Albanians doesnt have the myth of Deluge.
 
Ematheia cames
either from PIE sand land
either from king Ematheion of Thrace (Samothace-Emathothrace)
Makedonia is the area that Argeiads unite and ruled.
It is ridicoulous, when you evoke some hipothetised words like PIE sand land, which is not proven to ever exist, and you totally ignore albanian word E madhe, which means big, tall, or great, and is related to Megas, and Makednoi (tall people).

So we must return our eyes, PIE is just hipothese. Albanian language is not hypothese, it exists, and I think you must learn that, because it is the only way to know the history of balkans.

Again I say, just tell me the origin/etymotlgy of word "BATRAXOS" ?????????
 
Neander who is ridiculus?

you see every where Albania as ONE EYE CYCLOP

want Pelasgic ok


Zeus10 Bulsshit

Hommer ΕΡΕΒΟΣ (go down in earth, Dark)
Albanian EREVET
Greek ΕΡΕΒΟΣ (the dark of death, not in wide use) Σκοτος ( the dark of the bottom of tartarus)

Zeus 10 says that Erevet is Albanian Word and Hommer was Illyrian
well lets see the truth
Semitic EREBU = DARK

Semitic J Pelasgian and cadmus J2
so the History and the Myth exists
cause Pelasgian J2 in Aegean is also In Albania
meaning that Erevet came from Cadmus Pelasgian to Illyria,
since pelasgian is the cyclades civillization J2
History is to solve hands not create bullshit, as ZEUS10 DOES or aristidi kolla

maybe as I see in Albanian nationalistic sites Egyptians are albanians scottish are albanians maybe semitic people are Albanians,

The Aigean was inhabitted by many,
the Pelasgoi were J2 people, also the Leleges exist also the E people of mess

The Dorians comes from the area of Lokri as their city in Magna Grecia were speak Dorian Greek, Doros is the 1rst Meaning of dorians, In fact Dorians have no Connection with Illyria,
The only connection with Illyria the Prehistoric Phoenician-Pelasgian Cadmus and the later Aeolic rulers of South Illyria or North Epirus or what ever, that area from Greek Thesprotia to Greek Colony Apollonia- Pogiani and Epidamnus, or the Albanian Cammeria to Durres that area were Aeolic Illyrian Messapic

about βατραχος

watch
ATTIC
ΦΟΡΘΥΞ -> Φορτυγ-ος
In Crete
ΑΦΟΡΘΑΚΟΣ AFORTHAKOS
in MAkedonia
AΒΟΤΡΑΚΟΣ
DORIC
ΒΟΘΡΥΞ
Ionic (also pontic Greek)
ΦΟΘΡΑΚΑΣ


Φ ανδ Β nad Π ασ Τ Δ Θ ανδ Κ Γ Χ

In Brygian Greco-Thracian is ΑΒΟTΡΑXΟΣ
becomes the BΑΡΤΑΧΟΣ - ΒΑΤΡΑΧΟΣ

ΤΗΕ OLD IE AFORTHAKOS -> Frog Frosh Varde

Even today in Makedonia and Crete the fat ugly woman is Forthaka or Vorthaka (ugly as female frog)

I am interesting in the Albanian Explanation,

I hope not a bullshit of Zeus10 or aristidi Kolla
 
I hope not a bullshit of Zeus10 or aristidi Kolla
Aristidh Kolia, was killed, as he said: Don't deny about that, they killed me, like they killed many others like me.

It is Orthodox fundamentalism which is fighting against true pelasgian spirit. They even changed history,

For Zeus10, I did'nt cited him. And I suport him anytime, but in other cases I don't agree with him.

Let return to Batraxos:

You did'nt gave me the explanation of Batraxos, You didnt told me why it is called exactly Batraxos and not with other name.

I tell you. In Albanian it is called Bretkosa, and the male counterpart is Bretku.

In geg dialect, -bret- means (I am not sure cause I dont know english well), Scream, and it is called so because like we say "Bretkoca bret", or "Frog scream", and they do it in the spring, when males seek females, for copulation.

BReTKosa, and BaTRaKos, so we have BRTK, and BTRK. The same consonants.

Even from the word Bretk is derived Breshka which means Turtle, because they are similar in form and color.

Only albanian explain, why it is called Bretkosa and Batraxos.

It is Balkan the cradle of IE language.

Pelasgian = PIE

The greek is nothing more just a derivat of Pelasgian like Illyrian, thracian etc. But only one lanmguage, saved the word-forming from ancient times, and has the ability to explain the origin of words.
 
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maybe as I see in Albanian nationalistic sites Egyptians are albanians scottish are albanians maybe semitic people are Albanians,
It has not any link to me.

We are telling our facts. I give you right, when you already have the right.
 
Hi everybody,

I am a new member here! As far as I see, there are already 20 pages full of discussions concerning ancient ethnicity of Macedones whether they were Greeks or distinct from them. The way how some members manage to solve Macedonian old ethnicity is quite simplistic and erroneous.
It can not be ignored the very fact that Macedones were established in a territory which previously was peopled densely by either Illyrians and Thracians. That's why the legends of foundation of first kingdom mentioned Illyria or Illyrians.

137. Now of this Alexander the seventh ancestor was that Perdiccas who first became despot of the Macedonians, and that in the manner which here follows:–From Argos there fled to the Illyrians three brothers of the descendents of Temenos, Gauanes, Aëropos, and Perdiccas; and passing over from the Illyrians into the upper parts of Macedonia they came to the city of Lebaia.

137. τοῦ δὲ Ἀλεξάνδρου τούτου ἕβδομος γενέτωρ Περδίκκης ἐστὶ ὁ κτησάμενος τῶν Μακεδόνων τὴν τυραννίδα τρόπῳ τοιῷδε. ἐξ Ἄργεος ἔφυγον ἐς Ἰλλυριοὺς τῶν Τημένου ἀπογόνων τρεῖς ἀδελφεοί, Γαυάνης τε καὶ Ἀέροπος καὶ Περδίκκης, ἐκ δὲ Ἰλλυριῶν ὑπερβαλόντες ἐς τὴν ἄνω Μακεδονίην ἀπίκοντο ἐς Λεβαίην πόλιν.

The above Herodotes's story invoke that Illyria or Illyrians were the first neighbors of Macedones. In that paragraph we learn that Illyria was situated in outskirts of Argos, Upper Macedonia and Lebaia city. There is a plethora of facts emphasizing the solid Illyrian presence in Upper Macedonia as well as Lower Macedonia. I highly doubt that the so called "Peleponnesia origin" of Macedonians has any value since the Macedonians did not come from there. I think it was all a matter of confusion with the another Argos, which is situated in Orestia (who is thought to be the homeland of Maketas). By the way, Orestes as well as their neighboring countries had clear Illyrian features. To sum it up, Macedonians were most probably Illyrians...or kinsmen of them. The colonization of Macedonia's coast with Hellenic colonies brought up a new era, where Hellenism begun to extent in the very interior of the country. This was facilitated even by diplomatic efforts of Macedonian aristocracy to be engaged in Hellenic affairs in order to establish themselves as overlords of Hellas (which was suffering the causalities of long civil war of Athens-Sparta rivalry).

Thnx
 
Even we knoe some of words which are clearly albanian:

Macedonian - Albanian - English
Baskioi - Bashkoj - Unite, together, etc
Bathara - Batha
hello, that's cheating....

Macedonian báskioi had a meaning "leather sack"...
that is not exactly the same as unite/together


on other hand from list of 6 preserved ancient Macedonian words from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Macedonian_language

1. Macedonian δάνος dánοs ('death', from PIE *dhenh2- 'to leave'),
no counterpart in Serbian
Attic Greek θάνος thános

2. Macedonian ἄδραια adraia ('bright weather'),
adraia (ancient Macedonian) = vedro (serbian) - common root: adr

3. Macedonian Βερενίκη Bereníkē - bearing victory
no counterpart in Serbian
Attic Greek - Φερενίκη Phereníkē - bearing victory

4. Macedonian ἀβροῦτες abroûtes - eyebrows
abroutes (ancient Macedonian) = obrve (serbian) - common root: brv

5. Macedonian βάσκιοι báskioi ('fasces'), leather sack'
no counterpart in Serbian
Attic Greek φάσκωλος pháskōlos - leather sack

6. Macedonian μάγειρος mágeiros ('butcher')
magerios (ancient Macedonian) = mesaros (Serbian)

thus, completely explainable with mix of Greek and Serbian, which is due to R1a people mixed with Greek tribes....


Greek myths of origin relate Macedon to Hellen via female line....R1a that is in Greek Macedonia twice higher than in nearby Slavic nations explains why...
I believe that ancient Macedonians were kind of union of R1a proto-Serbs with Greeks...


Macedonian - Illyrian
Sigyna - Sibyna

While Sigyna is linked to albanian Shigjete (archer), Sibyna is linked to albanian (Thuper)
again cheating...archer is completely different word from spear....
in that way sabre (sablja in Serbian) is same word as Sibyna...

interesting relation between Sigyna and spear appear in Croatia
place called Sinj (comapere sound of it to Sigyna) where there is traditional competition of spearman - sinjska alka
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alka

interesting relation between Sibyna and spear we find in Serbian epic songs

Sibinjanin Janko is the name given in Serbian epic songs to person whose name was Janos Hunyadi -

John Hunyadi (Croatian: Janko Hunjadi, Hungarian: Hunyadi János [ˈhuɲɒdi ˈjaːnoʃ], Medieval Latin: Ioannes Corvinus or Ioannes de Hunyad, Romanian: Iancu (Ioan) de Hunedoara, Serbian: Сибињанин Јанко / Sibinjanin Janko, Slovak: Ján Huňady) (c. 1407[3] – 11 August 1456), nicknamed The White Knight of Wallachia[4] was a general (1444–1446) and Regent-Governor (1446–1453) of the Kingdom of Hungary.[5][6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hunyadi

Hungarian noble, knight fighting with spear, and also someone who organized Hussars - light cavalry of Hungarian army made out of Serbian warriors who were under Sibinjanin Janko waging wars against Turks ...
A type of irregular light horsemen was already well established by the 15th century in medieval Hungary.[1] Etymologists are divided over the derivation of the word 'hussar'.[2] Many scholars believe the word originated in Serbian[3] as 'Husar', derived from the Latin root 'cursus' meaning 'raid'.[2] According to Webster's the word hussar stems from the Hungarian huszár, which in turn originates from the Serbian хусар (Husar, or гусар, Gusar) meaning pirate, from the Medieval Latin cursarius (cf. the English word corsair).[4]
...
The hussars reportedly originated in bands of mostly Serbian warriors [9] crossing into southern Hungary after the Turkish invasion of Serbia at the end of the 14th century. The Governor of Hungary, Hunyadi János - John Hunyadi, created mounted units inspired by his enemy the Ottoman Turks
...
Gusar light cavalry forces were part of the medieval Serbian military. Armed with spears and pentagonal wood shields padded with metal, they supported the noble knights as their second line on the battlefield.[12] In the middle of each wooden shield, there was a round metal knob that held the shield together.[13]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussars


now
sibyna = spear
and Hunjadi Janos who organized Husars who fight on horse with spears and shield, is in Serbian epic poetry called Sibinjanin Janko

Sibyna = spear is obviously root of word Sibinjanin and must have had meaning "spear warrior"


But definitely, Macedonians were a mix of two kindred nations: Illyrians (west) and Thracians (east), as are the today albanians.
Origin of Albanians is twofold:
Tosks are mostly albanized Epirots... dominant haplogroup J
Geghs probably origin from Dardanians... dominant haplogroup E-V13

Illyrians is difficult even to exactly locate - most likely their location is north most Albania (most of south and central Albania of today was Greek Epirus), Montenegro and Serb settled part of Herzegovina (or up to river Neretva).... later Romans gave wrongly name Illyria to much larger area that included unrelated tribes such as various Pannonian tribes, Japodes, Liburnians, Histri....

the few preserved words of Illyrian language are completely alien to Albanian in meaning (for match both form and meaning must match... everything else is cheating and there is lot of shameless cheating of that kind in Illyrian ideology spread by those Albanians who are brainwashed to take for granted and blindly believe that they origin from Illyrians)....and anthropologically they are tall Dinaric people while Albanians are Mediteranean people whose height is not so large.....their haplogroup could have been E-V13, J2b, I2a2, R1b, R1a... hard to say...

if Illyrian coast was complete Adriatic coast, than they probably did have dominant I2a2...
otherwise, if Illyrian coast is just north Albania, Montenegro and Herzegovina till Neretva river, best guess we can obtain about haplogroups of Illyrians is by comparing data from Serbia and Montenegro (core of Illyrian state is Montenegro)

haplogroup____Serbia____Montenegro
I1_____________7.8%_____6.2%
I2b1___________1.67%___1.73%
I2a2 __________38.5% ___29.2%
E1b1b _________ 17.3%___27.0%
R1a____________14.5%____7.4%
R1b____________ 4.5%____9.4%
J1______________0.6% ___0.5%
J2a ____________3.3%____4.7%
J2b ____________1.7% ___4.5%
G2a____________2.2%____2.5%
N ______________3.3% ___1.5%
Q _____________1.7%____2.0%
H______________2.2% ___1.5%
L_______________0.6%____1.2%

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.21235/suppinfo


thus, in that case, Illyrians probably had E-V13, J2b, R1b, J2a and perhaps also some I2a2 but not as dominant

reason I add I2a2 is that along Adriatic coast of Italy is some I2a2 while there was no Slavic settlement there and there were Illyrian settlements... also it is clear that not all I2a2 came with south Slavs as there are hotspots of I2a2 in some not Slavic settled areas of Greece and Asia minor...
I believe part of previous I2a2 is due to Veneti, who once were known as Paphlagonia Eneti...
and early Slavs were identified as being of race of Veneti by Jordanes...
relation between Veneti and Illyrians is disputed...some people consider them to be same folk, some not... likely reason of confusion is Roman province of Illyria that included e.g. Liburnians who are almost certainly closely related to Veneti...
actually, some I2a2 along Adriatic coast of Italy could be due to Adriatic Veneti (not to be mixed with much later Venetian republic which only got name due to town of Venetia)...
 
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βάσκιοι baskioi 'fasces' (Hes. Attic δεσμοὶ φρῡγάνων desmoì phrūgánōn, Pokorny βασκευταί baskeutaí, Attic φασκίδες phaskídes, Attic φάσκωλος pháskōlos 'leather sack', PIE *bhasko-)
Fasces are those who unite axe with sheaves in the roman symbol.

So fasces have simmilar meaning. But I think you dont know how Etymology works.

Even we dont know Macedonian at all. That in Wikipedia is not original macedonian language. It is greek dialect which was spoken in Hellenized Emathia, and the vocabulary was written late in 5 century after Christ.

again cheating...archer is completely different word from spear....
in that way sabre (sablja in Serbian) is same word as Sibyna...
It is not completely different, they are arms, to fight with them.

Origin of Albanians is twofold:
Tosks are mostly albanized Epirots... dominant haplogroup J
Geghs probably origin from Dardanians... dominant haplogroup E-V13
These are bullshit. Epirots were barbarians as ancient authors told us. If we wanna know what was their language we must look at todays epirots or Tosks.

Tha assimilation occur in the contrary direction, because thay who have the state they make assimilation, and they who have not state they bacome assimilated.

Sot because Greeks, had the state (Byzantium), they assimilated all peoples of Anatolia, even the Jews etc.

But Albanians could not assimilate anybody, because they had not state, specially not in th south, until the late medieval (Ghin Bue Spata).

How the Epirots became Albanized?? Maybe some Gheg children armed with sibynas came in south and said to them, "Hey Epirots, come speak Albanian, we kill you", and the epirots were frightened, and begaun to speak albanian. hahha

So, epirots maybe did'nt call themselves illyrian, we don't know about thet, but it is proved that Epir and Illyria and Macedonia, as ancient authors said, have the same race, same language and same customs.

In the 385 BC Dionis of Syrakusa, help Illyrians with 2000 soldiers and 5000 arms, to fight against the philospartan party of Molossians, and to bring in the throne Alketa which was with antispartan party of Molosians. So the enemity between, Illyrians, is not argument to tell that they were different peoples. Even today Albanians fight eachother.

It was only one language, race, nation, in Ballkan until 8-th century BC, but in this time, some people there in the south, bastardized their language, Bretkosa became Batraxos, Illyrian became Hellen etc.

Macedonia was not Hellen, but it was hellenized later.

Even Alexander the Great, frequently spoke barbarian language to his macedonian soldiers. Even when he killed Kleitus, spoke barbarian language.

Macedonia has not any link to greece.
 
Illyrians is difficult even to exactly locate - most likely their location is north most Albania (most of south and central Albania of today was Greek Epirus), Montenegro and Serb settled part of Herzegovina (or up to river Neretva).... later Romans gave wrongly name Illyria to much larger area that included unrelated tribes such as various Pannonian tribes, Japodes, Liburnians, Histri....
It is not difficult. But it seems that you dont know much about history,. they lived from Slovenia to Ambrakia in the south, and from Adriatic sea to the Danub and Morava and vardar(Axios) river.

I believe that ancient Macedonians were kind of union of R1a proto-Serbs with Greeks...
And you have forget that serbs in the time of Alexander the Great had a great civilization, they hed electric and even they had computers.
 
actually, some I2a2 along Adriatic coast of Italy could be due to Adriatic Veneti (not to be mixed with much later Venetian republic which only got name due to town of Venetia)...
I2a2 has not any link in this thread. It is thread about Macedonia, and I2a2 is a slavic haplogroup, and Slavs came later in the 7 cebntury after christus
 
We cannot separate haplogroup Ev13 and J2b, since they are together since Neolithic times. Both haplogroups have the peak in Kosovo.

So they are both dardanian, or simply illyrian haplogroups.

Others like R1a1 and I2a2 came with Slavs.

R1b came in various times, in ancient times as slaves of Roman patrons, later with various waves of migrations.

But only Ev13 and J2b are authoctonous. Thse represent the only race/language/nation which lived, through all Balkan, Italia, Rhaetia, Noricum, Dacia, Anatolia etc.

Macedonia is not exception.
 
It is not difficult. But it seems that you dont know much about history,. they lived from Slovenia to Ambrakia in the south, and from Adriatic sea to the Danub and Morava and vardar(Axios) river.
such area of influence would directly imply that they were I2a2 dominant people... as I2a2 is common element for people in that area...

We cannot separate haplogroup Ev13 and J2b, since they are together since Neolithic times. Both haplogroups have the peak in Kosovo.
So they are both dardanian, or simply illyrian haplogroups.
Others like R1a1 and I2a2 came with Slavs.
R1b came in various times, in ancient times as slaves of Roman patrons, later with various waves of migrations.
But only Ev13 and J2b are authoctonous. Thse represent the only race/language/nation which lived, through all Balkan, Italia, Rhaetia, Noricum, Dacia, Anatolia etc.
Macedonia is not exception.
if we are going to play game of who is more autochthonus (which doesnot make much sense as one can choose snapshot in history that proves his nation being more autochton), then
actually, E and J are less autochton in Balkan than R1a and I2a2...
because:

1) it is widely accepted that haplogroup I is in Europe before arrival of neolithic groups...

2) R1a is ancient old in areas of Serbia, Macedonia and Bosnia. it is 11000 years old there while in rest of Europe it is 3-5000 years ago....
11000 years ago is much before arrival of E and J...

evidence has been obtained that the oldest R1a1 lived circa 20,000 years before the present (ybp) in South Siberia. There are two sets of data and these provide ages of 21,000±3,000 ybp and 19,625±2,800 ybp, calculated by two different methods, and 11,650±1,550 years ago appeared in the Balkans (Serbia, Kosovo, Bosnia, Macedonia). (c) Except the South Siberian and Balkans populations, present-day bearers of R1a1 across Western and Eastern Europe have common ancestors who lived between 3550 and 4750 years ago (the "youngest" in Scotland, Ireland and Sweden, the "oldest" in Russia (4750±500 ybp) and Germany (4,700±520 ybp),
http://www.jogg.info/52/files/Klyosov2.pdf

So, epirots maybe did'nt call themselves illyrian, we don't know about thet, but it is proved that Epir and Illyria and Macedonia, as ancient authors said, have the same race, same language and same customs.
quote sources... find text on internet (there are sites with ancient texts online)...link to it... otherwise I consider it just another propaganda trick...
 
Neander

you only prove me that your Pelasgian are Good

You did'nt gave me the explanation of Batraxos, You didnt told me why it is called exactly Batraxos and not with other name.

I tell you. In Albanian it is called Bretkosa, and the male counterpart is Bretku.

In geg dialect, -bret- means (I am not sure cause I dont know english well), Scream, and it is called so because like we say "Bretkoca bret", or "Frog scream", and they do it in the spring, when males seek females, for copulation.

BReTKosa, and BaTRaKos, so we have BRTK, and BTRK. The same consonants.

Even from the word Bretk is derived Breshka which means Turtle, because they are similar in form and color.

Only albanian explain, why it is called Bretkosa and Batraxos.

Cretan Dialect κουζου-λος kuzu means screamer, the mad man yells
Ionic Greek Kουζος means loud speaker, yell man
KOINE Κυρηξ-Kος Κurix Kurex means preacher and delalis
the Virb is Κουω-ζω means yell
modern Greek is Σκουζω

now Bretku and Bretkosa means the Bret yell, the one that yells always Bret -bret

now if you don't like the explain in Greek pelasgian,
Next time don't try to explain Greek words with albanian, cause even your pelasgic means other

the Batraxos comes from Ionic Φορθυξ or dorian Βοθρυξ

ο Βοθρυξ
του Βοθρακου - βοτραχου - βατραχου

which is more near the Botrakos or bretku?

or In your explanation comes the virb
βρυχομαι brychomai-vrychomai
means i immitated the lion, I yell-scream roarrrrrr
Βρυχομαι is Homeric as also θρωμαι thromai
βρυχομαι means i Make big sound to scary someone I scream I yell
Βρυχηθμος is lion yell the scary sound
θρωμαι means the opposite the light sound the soft rrrrr sound
θροος is the sound, as an example the tree leaves in soft wind the throoun θρωουν
θροος is also the sound of wind
θορυβος is the louder to annoy ears sound
βρυχηθμος is the very loud scary sound

now If Bret is connected Homeric Brych -Bruch I don't know.
I leave it to you to deside
as also -ku if it is the pelasgic Ionic Kuzo Κουω-Κουζω I don't know
You are albanian, you know your language




BUT
I GAVE YOU THE EXACT WORD FROM WHERE BATRAXOS COMES
THE PIE FORTHYX ΦΟΡΘΥΞ ιν ΑΤΤΙΚ ορ ΑΒΟΡΘΑΚΟΣ ΟΡ ΒΟΘΡΥΞ

simply the φορθυξ -> φροθυκ - φρογκ -frog or frosh etc
only the change position of r connects it with many other IE languages


The same Bullshit also was done by Kolla and Zeus10
simply bullshit, one eye cyclops that pass Albanians for stupid,
I believe Albanians are more Clever people to read Zeu10

and I must ask you next time you say Bullshit PLZ ACCEPT YOUR IGNORANCE IN GREEK PELASGIC cause as I don't attempt to explain Albanian words plz dont try to explain Greek words with Albanian,
I know were a woman has the .... don't need you to show the hole of a brick
the Bretku is albanian and has no connection with Botrakos-Batraxos
if I repeat If due to respect to albanian language analyze it then with Greek pelasgic means Bret singer Bret yell




NOW ABOUT MAKEDONIANS
What Illyrian? MAkedonia took places that Vrygian and Bethini left, for the eternal war with Dardani
original Vruges are area north of Ohrid, and wars with Dardani push them to Bottiea
Dardani and Makedonians eternal war, what Illyrians and Thracians,
The only Illyrian that ally with Makedonian Argeians were the Amantes the penestaes and Parthini if I remember correct (the last maybe I am wrong)
only these 3 cities were in Hetairoi,
The paioni Thracians Ally with them and even Odrysse thracian offer peace and alliance exept Dardani
Besides the Half area of Makedonia east was and is habitted by Thracian, areas of Serres was Thracian Syntikes etc Mt Pangaion is Perso-Thracian name Aryan and means the Giving, in Greek means total Earth, the whole of Gaia, but that is Mistaken cause we know Paggaion mt comes the The thracian lingua, not from the Greek and means Giving land
The Homeric Nysa (in greek probably Nike or Nycha Νικη ορ Νυχiα)

Neander first find out what Dardani means, and then call Makedonians Illyrians,
Makedonians were clear Greeks from the area that Dorians that Hellen that Graikus were born Born

Now about aigai - aiges means goats, but search in Histieaiotis Ιστια in Thessaly where was the Makedonian first City Aiginion

The town is built on the location of the ancient city of
Aiginion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalabaka

What Illyrians?
Besides the Makedonian Dynasty claim Argos city and that is why they named Argeans

from @e mathe@ you destroy the whole History Lingua writers tradition just to say that Alaxander was Albanian

if that is not Cyclopean Nationalism (nazism) then what it is?
simply I feel sorry for the Albanians that read you and Zeus10,
I believe that Albanian Academic people are more clever that to connect the @e mathe@ (although I prove you it is wrong) with Makedonians,

Yes off course that Land was Thracian land a part of it,
but wars was done and Tribes moved, Find out about Pieri,The bulgarian Thracologist do not recon Pieri as a Thracian tribe but as a Greek,
cause orpheus language is more Greek than odrysse Thracianthe tribe of Vryges is considered more greco Thracian than perso or slavo Thracianthe paiones are considered thracians but their Kings had Greek names,
Find out why


Now about the balkans as the First area of speaking world or the center of IE
I DON@T KNOW,
I believe that minor Asia was the babel tower, and not the kurgan or the maykob etc
cause the more back we go and unite languages the more the area south of Armenia we found
,
I am thinking if the semitic Erebu comes from the pelasgian Erebos-Erevet
or the Pelasgian Erevet-Erebos comes from the semitic Erebu
 
Neander the ignorant Nazi Cyclop

Epirus read aristotle says that is ARCHAEGONUS ELLAS
mt PINDOS AND MOLLOSEAN TRIBE
WHAT BARBARIANS THE DODONA ORACLE
SIMPLY BULLSHIT BY A NATIONALIST WHOSE IDEAS HAVE BEEN SMASHED
EVEN TODAY IN MAKEDONIA WE NAME THE FROG BOTHRAKA AND YOU TELL TELL THAT S ALBANIN BRETKU>>> ONLY A ...... LUNATIC WILL CLAIM THAT
OK HELLEN WAS MYTH DORUS WAS MYTH
ARISTOTLE WAS A MYTH ALSO??????

only a pissed off chauvinist that has one eye would claim that
simply i feel sory for the albanians that believe you cause you hide the truth and yoi promote pan albanism,
and when your fake dcuments fall simply you raise everything
just as you did above
Epirotans Barbarians


Even we dont know Macedonian at all. That in Wikipedia is not original macedonian language. It is greek dialect which was spoken in Hellenized Emathia, and the vocabulary was written late in 5 century after Christ.

It is not completely different, they are arms, to fight with them.

These are bullshit. Epirots were barbarians as ancient authors told us. If we wanna know what was their language we must look at todays epirots or Tosks.
Macedonia has not any link to greece.

MAkedonia is was and will be always Greek
Besides ORpheus was not Illyrian
Neither KARAMOS

Now since you don't know about the barbaric Makedonian Dialect I must inform you that Was
not Illyrian language but doric+aeolic+brygian
the makedonians did not spoke attic, and that means Barbarian to the Atheneans, but what can some wait from one that Believes and insist that Batraxos is not from Bothrakos but from bretku

Neander you make epirotans barbarians, aristotle says other
you make makedonians illyrians (wow)
next what? the cretans?

The Greeks comes from pelasgic civilization as non IE
but learn the IE either from Hettit either from Mycenae
the first attempt to unite was done under mycenae at 1200 BC
the later sea people destruction sent back hellenic civilization that started again with more IE elments in Hellenas river
the 776 Bc is the new start date that started much before to restore and unite area,
in that time Makedonians from Thessaly invade Pieria and kick the pieri and unite the GrecoPelasgic Thracians to Makedonia

Accept it,

besides found out who were the Skudra or skodra
what dardani means, whom allies were the dardani?
Epirotans were not barbarians
EPIROTAN WAS THE PYRROS AND THE KASTRIOTI
except if you believe that kastrioti was barbarian

Understand it
The Pelasgians were not Albanians
the albanians have pelasgic elements
as also Greeks Bulgarians Fyromians Serbians
Latin Rasians Lazic etc

The pelasgian civilization destroyed by a volcano
the remnants created nations and tribes

and since you say that Greeks were cut
May i remind you that Dardania was the center of Persian Empire in Balkans Skodra

now I admit that area of central Makedonia was inhabited by Thracian Pieri
which were Not Illyrians and I inform you that pieri were pushed to East
May I remind you that Bottieans were GREEKS from CRETE
May I remind you that Mygdonians Bryges were Isotones Languages to Greek, simply MAkedonians moved from Aiginion Thessaly to Herakleia to dion Pydna Bala and occupied land of thracians,
if Makedonians were illyrians as you say then why the worst enemy of Argeians was Dardania?
if MAkedonians were thracians then why it took them 400 years to defeat them, and only 30 years to conquer Greece?

if you are a linguist then you know that Greek Dias Dios (Zeus)
today is the Vrygian -MAkedonian Theos
dios Greek -> Tios Vrygian-MAkedonian ->theos today

why Paiones kings had Greek names????

Albanians are not the only thracians or pelasgian accept it,
Makedonians Argeians as also Orestias Herakleia Lynchia were Greek
and if not they were pelasgian so same thing, since Greek comes from Pelasgians

Makedonians Argeians unite Greek-Thracian Bottieans Mygdonians, kick Pieri and Bethini and took the lands of Vrygians,
you want or not Batraxos does not come from betku (not even same root)
but from Forthyx

I admit that I don't know Albanian language,
But when we use 1 language to explain a word of another language we must be carefull and respect
Betku does not explain Batraxos But Bothrakos does
same bullshit made Kolla and Zeus10, exactly the same
they believe That Pelasgians are albanians, and Greek is Albanian language and without knowing 1 Greek word they started to explain wrong Greek words
as an example of Kolla
Homeric Thera = door
AlBanian Dera = door
Greek Porta = door
But porta is from LAtin occupation francais port
Greek word is Thyra θυρα
and the high ignorance stupidity
Homeric Dera means fleece
meaning kolla write whatever
:grin: :grin:

the same thing you do with bretku
and although i Have to accept@e mathe@
you insist that Bretku is the original and Bothrakos not :useless: :useless:

plz keep away Albanian Nazi propaganda
the Greek language is the Greek language
The albanian is the Albanian
they both have Pelasgian elements but that does not mean that albanian can explain Greek or the opposite, but only similarity in the words you find,
Greek language is Pelasgic But not Albanian realize that and stop finding albania behind every Greek word that sounds same


And remember that Epirotans are BArbarians and not archegonus Greece
then Kastrioti is a barbarian
 
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Epirus read aristotle says that is ARCHAEGONUS ELLAS
mt PINDOS AND MOLLOSEAN TRIBE
WHAT BARBARIANS THE DODONA ORACLE
Hi iapetoc,
It seem obvious that you are clueless about ethnic character of ancient Epirotes. At the same time, your ambitious claim about Epirotes being Greeks does not hold any water because its runs against all literary sources from ancient Greek and Roman writers. Epirotes were never reckoned as genuine Hellenes; ancient historians never hesitate to call them as 'Barbarians' i.e non-Greeks. Instead of making fallacious pretensions, why you don't put forward any proof to back up your claims? I mean do tell us what are the literary sources that indicate any kind of Greekness of Epirotes?
Indeed ancient sources firmly indicate the non-Greekness of Epirus. Take a look at the below quote:

Plutarch, The Parallel Lives p347 The Life of Pyrrhus
"Of the Thesprotians and Molossians after the great flood, the first king, according to some historians, was Phaethon, one of those who came into Epirus with Pelasgus"

So, Pelasgus (the eponym of Pelasgians, according to other mythical traditions) is said to be one of the first who came in Epirus. Needless to say, that no one consider Pelasgians as Greeks.
Let's go further:

Strabo the Geographer
φασὶ δὲ καὶ κατὰ τὴν τῶν Μολοττῶν καὶ Θεσπρωτῶν γλῶτταν τὰς γραίας πελίας καλεῖσθαι καὶ τοὺς γέροντας πελίους· καὶ ἴσως οὐκ ὄρνεα ἦσαν αἱ θρυλούμεναι πελειάδες, ἀλλὰ γυναῖκες γραῖαι τρεῖς περὶ τὸ ἱερὸν σχολάζουσαι

It is further said that in the language of the Molossians and the Thesprotians old women are called "peliai" {482} and old men "pelioi." {483} And perhaps the much talked of Peleiades were not birds, but three old women who busied themselves about the temple.
At the Strabo's time the language of Epirus was acknowledged as entirely different from Greek. In addition with this, Epirus wasn't geographically in Greece because the northern confines of Greek world hardly passed Thessaly.
Strabo 11.14.12.
ἔδει μὲν γὰρ αὐτοῖς ἐπιθέτου κόσμου τοιούτου τινός, οἱ δὲ Θετταλοὶ μάλιστα βαθυστολοῦντες, ὡς εἰκός, διὰ τὸ πάντων εἶναι Ἑλλήνων βορειοτάτους καὶ ψυχροτάτους νέμεσθαι τόπους ἐπιτηδειοτάτην παρέσχοντο μίμησιν τῇ τῶν ὑποκριτῶν διασκευῇ ἐν τοῖς ἀναπλάσμασιν·
"The Thessalians in particular wore long robes, probably because they of all the Greeks lived in the most northerly and coldest region" .
If Epirotes were kins with other Greeks, then Strabo and other geographers would say that from all the Greeks, Epirotes lived in the most northerly region. But this was not the case. They identified only a part of Thessalians as being Hellenes.
It would be my greatest pleasure to take into consideration this bunch of proofs whenever you decide to express any opinion about Epirus and its people!
 
by the way, I find it as necessary to post again the Herodotus's testimony because it is purposefully ignored by some members here:

137. Now of this Alexander the seventh ancestor was that Perdiccas who first became despot of the Macedonians, and that in the manner which here follows:–From Argos there fled to the Illyrians three brothers of the descendents of Temenos, Gauanes, Aëropos, and Perdiccas; and passing over from the Illyrians into the upper parts of Macedonia they came to the city of Lebaia.

137. τοῦ δὲ Ἀλεξάνδρου τούτου ἕβδομος γενέτωρ Περδίκκης ἐστὶ ὁ κτησάμενος τῶν Μακεδόνων τὴν τυραννίδα τρόπῳ τοιῷδε. ἐξ Ἄργεος ἔφυγον ἐς Ἰλλυριοὺς τῶν Τημένου ἀπογόνων τρεῖς ἀδελφεοί, Γαυάνης τε καὶ Ἀέροπος καὶ Περδίκκης, ἐκ δὲ Ἰλλυριῶν ὑπερβαλόντες ἐς τὴν ἄνω Μακεδονίην ἀπίκοντο ἐς Λεβαίην πόλιν.

Judging by this literary testimony, the Macedonian ethnogenesis is related narrowly with the Illyrians. Herodotus's story makes known the direction of three Macedonian brothers: firstly they fled to the Illyrians...and passing from Illyrians they came in a certain city of Upper Macedonia called Lebaia. So a large portion of what became Macedonia was previously called Ἰλλυριοὺς and its inhabitants as Illyrians.

The long rivalry between Macedonians and Illyrians says nothing about any ethnic difference between them. It was just a conflict to extent the control between strategic points and fertile plains. We have the long warfares between Athens and Sparta and it would be useless to doubt their Greekness.

An another huge mistake that is performed by some members here is the confusion between Argos of Peleponessus and Argos of Orestikon (the real place where Macedonian kings sprung).

To judge more correct the ethnic sameness between Illyrians and Macedonians, we have to compare Upper Macedonians (which were certainly of Illyrian blood) with the highlanders of Pieria mountains (the homeland of Macedones). Despite the fact that they fought for a centuries with one another for hegemony, there was no difference between them in ethnic manner. Illyrians (or Upper Macedonians) were the first people who became part of Macedonian kingdom. Later on, Macedonian kings married with women from that region and during Asiatic campaign of Alexander the Great, a large number of soldiers were recruited from Upper Macedonia.
 
iapetoc. Thank you very much for you offended me and my nation. It is your "pelasgian" culture.

In your post I don't see any fact only, and ity seems that you don't much about history. Please read ancient authors, from the first to last. Majority of them tell us that Epirotes and Macedonians were barbarians, and that means non-greeks.

Barbarian in the ancient time doesnt means "un-cultured people", because all were cultured, All natios had a kind of script, and wrote anything at least, but barbarian are those who didnt spoke greek.

Even the inhabitants of Aitholia, speak a language which is not understandable - says Herodotus.

Your post is so intermingled with spams, so I dont want to reply anything to your words.
 
Hi iapetoc,
It seem obvious that you are clueless about ethnic character of ancient Epirotes. At the same time, your ambitious claim about Epirotes being Greeks does not hold any water because its runs against all literary sources from ancient Greek and Roman writers. Epirotes were never reckoned as genuine Hellenes; ancient historians never hesitate to call them as 'Barbarians' i.e non-Greeks. Instead of making fallacious pretensions, why you don't put forward any proof to back up your claims? I mean do tell us what are the literary sources that indicate any kind of Greekness of Epirotes?
Indeed ancient sources firmly indicate the non-Greekness of Epirus. Take a look at the below quote:



So, Pelasgus (the eponym of Pelasgians, according to other mythical traditions) is said to be one of the first who came in Epirus. Needless to say, that no one consider Pelasgians as Greeks.
Let's go further:


At the Strabo's time the language of Epirus was acknowledged as entirely different from Greek. In addition with this, Epirus wasn't geographically in Greece because the northern confines of Greek world hardly passed Thessaly.

If Epirotes were kins with other Greeks, then Strabo and other geographers would say that from all the Greeks, Epirotes lived in the most northerly region. But this was not the case. They identified only a part of Thessalians as being Hellenes.
It would be my greatest pleasure to take into consideration this bunch of proofs whenever you decide to express any opinion about Epirus and its people!


Map_of_ancient_Epirus_and_environs.png


Unlike most other Greeks of this time, who lived in or around city-states, the inhabitants of Epirus lived in small villages and their way of life was foreign to that of the poleis of southern Greece.[1][14] Their region lay on the periphery of the Greek world[1] and was far from peaceful; for many centuries, it remained a frontier area contested with the Illyrian peoples to the north. However, Epirus had a far greater religious significance than might have been expected given its geographical remoteness, due to the presence of the shrine and oracle at Dodona - regarded as second only to the more famous oracle at Delphi.
The Epirotes, speakers of a Northwest Greek dialect, different from the Dorian of the Greek colonies on the Ionian islands, and bearers of mostly Greek names, as evidenced by epigraphy, seem to have been regarded with some disdain by some classical writers. The 5th century BC Athenian historian Thucydides describes them as "barbarians",[15] as does Strabo.[16] Other writers, such as Herodotus,[17] Dionysius of Halicarnassus[18] Pausanias[19] and Eutropius,[20] describe them as Greeks. Similarly, Epirote tribes/states are included in the Argive and Epidaurian lists of the Greek Thearodokoi (hosts of sacred envoys).[21] Plutarch mentions an interesting element of Epirote folklore regarding Achilles: In his biography of King Pyrrhus, he claims that Achilles "had a divine status in Epirus and in the local dialect he was called Aspetos" (meaning unspeakable, unspeakably great, in Homeric Greek).[22][23]
Beginning in 370 BC, the Molossian Aeacidae dynasty built a centralized state in Epirus and began expanding their power at the expense of rival tribes.[1] The Aeacids allied themselves with the increasingly powerful kingdom of Macedon, in part against the common threat of Illyrian raids,[24] and in 359 BC the Molossian princess Olympias, niece of Arybbas of Epirus, married King Philip II of Macedon.[1] She was to become the mother of Alexander the Great.




I dunno, it sounds like Illyrians where Epirots main enemy.
 

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