Etruscans=Illyrians=Pelasgi //// tuscans=albanians ?????

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Zanipolo, what are you still talking about? I'm FRENCH, and i'm studying Romance languages, Italian and Spanish Literature and Culture! Nationalistic propaganda? Are YOU so sure not be influenced by Venetian propaganda or Liga Veneta or Lega Nord propaganda?

I invite you to show REAL and NEUTRAL sources to support your Unscientific Statements.


Romagnolo is Italian. Can you read Italian?
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialetto_romagnolo

Just some questions. What's your real mother tongue? English? Where have you studied? In Australia? Are you the son or grandson of Venet immigrants in Australia?

you seem to be one the likes to dispense with minor languages, not I, I prefer to keep every language/dialect viable in the world.

Did you find the dante word of bordelo, you will see the meaning is not what it is today.
to get the correct terminology of a language or place or people or surnames you go to the root , the original and not replace it with something else

http://www.oleanderpress.com/index....ge.tpl&product_id=129&category_id=15&vmcchk=1

your link is clearly bias in the italian way of it being spelt. italians add vowels to everything, it was a way to create a language which was never created by the people in a natural way. It also was the last language to emerge in Italy

So, cease this or I will get my cousin in Toulouse to bombard you linguistically with l'oc ............lol


answer me this to see what kind of person you are...
would you agree to allow, breton, savoryard, l'oc, basque, provenzal etc etc to be taught in their respective areas in schools.

EDIT - the international linguistic codes and name below

[h=1]Romagnol (Language code 'rgn')[/h]
ISO Language Code:rgn
ISO Language Name:Romagnol
 
Well let me me inform you all that the word Tosk exist in some Greek sur-names,
in Arvanto-Vlachs, Moschopolis becomes Tokas
and in Moesian-Vlachs becomes Tositsas (Tosic)
while it does not exist in Kutsuk-Vlachs

Well. Tokas, Tositsas and Tosic are words of different origins.

Tosk is also a rare German and Scandinavian surname. Tosk in norwegian means "fool".
 
Well. Tokas, Tositsas and Tosic are words of different origins.

Tosk is also a rare German and Scandinavian surname. Tosk in norwegian means "fool".

Yes But I do not think that Surnames of Arvanto-Vlachs and Moesian vlachs have to do with Norwegian 'fool'
while in kutsuk-Vlachs who have nothing to do with the 2 above areas does not exist

the only case is only if the word passed from the Normandoi of sicily and taranto to area of Albania,


I don't know the etymology of the word Tosk, simply I am mention it to prove that word exist as what? tribe name? toponym-origin name? job name?
 
In my opinion, Latin “Tuscus” is borrowed from Pelasgian (Etruscan) “Tusc” that means “oak”; in modern Albanian “dushk” (oak) and in modern Greek “δρυς” (oak). The “Tusc” was considered a Holy Tree and worshiped by pelasgians, that’s why they’re called Tuscan (whose wordroot survives in modern Albanian dushk) or “Etruscan” (whose wordroot survives in modern Greek δρυς).
Remember the Dodona’s Holy Oak.
Because of them, this tree has been worshiped by some other peoples too.
This is Pan-Albanism, pure Albanian nationalistic propaganda.
Here is the “right” etymology of “Tosc”:
the second meaning, a later born meaning, is "rude" because of the disreputable character of the inhabitants of the Vicus Tuscus, that was an Etruscan Street in ancient Rome, but not more inhabited by Etruscans. The second meaning is perfectly preserved in Spanish and it's the right etimology of Albanian Tosk.
(bolded by me)
May be Taranis agrees with your “right” etymology and thinks it ‘stands up to scientific scrutiny’ (he has not opposed it yet, neither has he warned you).
Greek "drus" is clearly Indo-European and has cognates in other branches:
Celtic: "druid" (Proto-Celtic *druwits), Old Irish "dair", Welsh "dar" (which both mean "oak")
Latin "durus" (hard)
Germanic: English "tree"
Albanian "dru"
Slavic: Russian "derevo" ("tree")
Indo-Iranic: Sanskrit "daru" ("timber", "wood").
May be you’ve forgotten (or is it intentional?) to add that all these words come from PIE *dru-.
In addition I’d like to point out there’re many other words which came up ‘cause of religious PIE *dru-.
Here are some of them:
O.E. triewe (W.Saxon) "faithful, trustworthy”
P.Gmc. *trewwjaz "having or characterized by good faith"
Ger. Treu “true”
Goth. triggws "faithful, trusty"
Lith. drutas "firm”
O.Ir. derb "sure”
Alb. Tru “brain/s”; trush “of brains”
Engl. True, truth, trust.
All these meanings came up because of religious *dru-; even the fact that these words begin generally with “t” (instead of PIE *d), shows the Pelasgian (Etruscan) impact on Europian languages. Even “Troy” may be of the same etymology.
See also http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=true&allowed_in_frame=0
 
May be you’ve forgotten (or is it intentional?) to add that all these words come from PIE *dru-.
In addition I’d like to point out there’re many other words which came up ‘cause of religious PIE *dru-.

I omitted them because I was focusing on the semantic meaning of "tree"/"wood".

Here are some of them:
O.E. triewe (W.Saxon) "faithful, trustworthy”
P.Gmc. *trewwjaz "having or characterized by good faith"
Ger. Treu “true”
Goth. triggws "faithful, trusty"
Engl. True, truth, trust.

Lith. drutas "firm”
O.Ir. derb "sure”
If you compare this list, and if you compare this with the list I have posted...

Greek "drus" is clearly Indo-European and has cognates in other branches:

Celtic: "druid" (Proto-Celtic *druwits), Old Irish "dair", Welsh "dar" (which both mean "oak")

Latin "durus" (hard)

Germanic: English "tree"

Albanian "dru"

Slavic: Russian "derevo" ("tree")

Indo-Iranic: Sanskrit "daru" ("timber", "wood").

All these meanings came up because of religious *dru-; even the fact that these words begin generally with “t” (instead of PIE *d), shows the Pelasgian (Etruscan) impact on Europian languages.

...you will notice that only in the Germanic languages (Anglo-Saxon, English, Gothic, etc.) there is a *t, in all other branches of IE this is reflected as *d. There is a *t in Germanic because PIE *d is reflected as *t into Germanic, thanks to Grimm's Law. All your bewildering fantasies about a "Pelgasian" loanword are completely unnecessary, and you're lying into your own face when you state that these words "generally begin with *t" (since that really only applies to Germanic).

And now let's take a look at this:

Alb. Tru “brain/s”; trush “of brains”

Since PIE *d is reflected as *d into Albanian (we established that earlier with "dru"), the most probable explanation is that this is a Germanic loanword.
 
Alb. Tru “brain/s”; trush “of brains”
And now let's take a look at this:
Since PIE *d is reflected as *d into Albanian (we established that earlier with "dru"), the most probable explanation is that this is a Germanic loanword.
There’re other Albanian words which cognate to PIE *dru- , one of them (the most important one relating to that case) is truall (tru/al) that means “land”.
Do you think it’s a Germanic loanword too?
 
There’re other Albanian words which cognate to PIE *dru- , one of them (the most important one relating to that case) is truall (tru/al) that means “land”.
Do you think it’s a Germanic loanword too?

Why should this be of the same root? It has a completely different semantic meaning. My opinion is that "truall" is a cognate with Latin "terra" and English "thirst".
 
Why should this be of the same root? It has a completely different semantic meaning. My opinion is that "truall" is a cognate with Latin "terra" and English "thirst".
As a matter of fact, Albanian “truall” means “a useful land” for building the house and the orchard (or garden) around it. As a general term it means “a useful land”.
The plural of “truall”/tru:all/ is “troye”/tro:je/.
My opinion is that the first meaning of “tru-al” has been “orchard” or any other term relating with “tree” (PIE *dru-).
 
As a matter of fact, Albanian “truall” means “a useful land” for building the house and the orchard (or garden) around it. As a general term it means “a useful land”.
The plural of “truall”/tru:all/ is “troye”/tro:je/.
My opinion is that the first meaning of “tru-al” has been “orchard” or any other term relating with “tree” (PIE *dru-).

Then you're completely wrong, because it would require that such a thing as sound laws would be non-existent. When a sound change happens, this happens across the entire vocabulary of a language, and without exceptions. If there's apparent exceptions, these are either enforced by their own sets of rules (Verner's Law in the Germanic languages is a good example of that), or it is because a word is a loanword (meaning the word entered the language after the sound change happened). There are no exceptions from the above.

The best example (for you, anyways) is if you compare Gheg and Tosk dialects. You will notice that the differences are always regularly and across the board. This is also a perfect example to debunk your silly idea that Albanian is purportedly unchanged since prehistoric times: the fact dialects exist shows that Albanian has changed. It's also a perfect question for you: which dialect is closer to the original condition in Albanian? Gheg? Or Tosk?
 
Then you're completely wrong, because it would require that such a thing as sound laws would be non-existent. When a sound change happens, this happens across the entire vocabulary of a language, and without exceptions. If there's apparent exceptions, these are either enforced by their own sets of rules (Verner's Law in the Germanic languages is a good example of that), or it is because a word is a loanword (meaning the word entered the language after the sound change happened). There are no exceptions from the above.

The best example (for you, anyways) is if you compare Gheg and Tosk dialects. You will notice that the differences are always regularly and across the board. This is also a perfect example to debunk your silly idea that Albanian is purportedly unchanged since prehistoric times: the fact dialects exist shows that Albanian has changed. It's also a perfect question for you: which dialect is closer to the original condition in Albanian? Gheg? Or Tosk?

The german Xylander wrote that sanskrit and albanian had many similar words, he actually stated about 1200.
gathering info from Bianchi book Dictionarium Latino-Epiroticum from 1635, another from de Lecce in 1716, he noted
Sanskit (S) Albanian (A)
land as S=Stira A=Stere

hill as S=Mala A=Malli

tree as S=druh A=drou

man as S=purusha A=pourre
 
The german Xylander wrote that sanskrit and albanian had many similar words, he actually stated about 1200.
gathering info from Bianchi book Dictionarium Latino-Epiroticum from 1635, another from de Lecce in 1716, he noted
Sanskit (S) Albanian (A)
land as S=Stira A=Stere

hill as S=Mala A=Malli

tree as S=druh A=drou

man as S=purusha A=pourre

'pourre' ? do you mean 'burre'? the albanian word should be an evolution of PIE *bʰuH- (become) and *bʰer- (bear, carry) relating to 'child who grew up' or something like that.
 
'pourre' ? do you mean 'burre'? the albanian word should be an evolution of PIE *bʰuH- (become) and *bʰer- (bear, carry) relating to 'child who grew up' or something like that.

i rechecked it , and its a pourre hundreds of years ago. maybe it a change like s was written as an f only 150 years.

maybe you can check these others

worm S=krimi A=krimp

bones S=asthi A =eshte

great S=mahat A=mad


its good to be mad in albanian !!!!
 
The german Xylander wrote that sanskrit and albanian had many similar words, he actually stated about 1200.
gathering info from Bianchi book Dictionarium Latino-Epiroticum from 1635, another from de Lecce in 1716, he noted
Sanskit (S) Albanian (A)
land as S=Stira A=Stere

hill as S=Mala A=Malli

tree as S=druh A=drou

man as S=purusha A=pourre

Hill in modern Albanian is "Kodër" (indefinite noun), "Kodra" (definite noun) and i think it hasn't changed in the last 150 years. The word which this guy points out as hill aka "mal/i" (since malli is a word totally unrelated) is a Latin loan word.

Exp:
English-Mountain
Italian-Montagna
Albanian-Mali

As for man the word must be "burrë" and i'm sure that 150 years ago and now it was pronounce fairly the same with the only difference that at the time this guy wrote this supposedly common words it didn't exist and formal Albanian language with rules and everything else so basically everyone could write any word as he heard it or thought it should be written and still be the correct way to write it.

i rechecked it , and its a pourre hundreds of years ago. maybe it a change like s was written as an f only 150 years.

maybe you can check these others

worm S=krimi A=krimp

bones S=asthi A =eshte

great S=mahat A=mad


its good to be mad in albanian !!!!

"Worm" would be "Krimb" which exist as an adverb too, "i/e krimbur" and means "Rotten".

For "bones" the word this author means, I suppose is "Eshtra", which is an sort of old word, rarely used today. "Është" is third person, singular, Present Tense, Demostrative Way of the verb "To Be" (Jam-Alb)

As for "great" the word again I suppose is "i/e Madh". I think in the Albanian Language thread this word has already been "discussed", and I think is a PIE word in Albanian. Like for example in Greek (if i'm not mistaken) the word or one of the words for great or big is "mega", which you don't need to be an expert to say that "madh" and "mega" either are loan words or one-another or have a common root.

IDK but this guy doesn't seem a very good linguistic or at least with little knowledge in Albanian not to say none at all.
 
Hill in modern Albanian is "Kodër" (indefinite noun), "Kodra" (definite noun) and i think it hasn't changed in the last 150 years. The word which this guy points out as hill aka "mal/i" (since malli is a word totally unrelated) is a Latin loan word.

Exp:
English-Mountain
Italian-Montagna
Albanian-Mali

As for man the word must be "burrë" and i'm sure that 150 years ago and now it was pronounce fairly the same with the only difference that at the time this guy wrote this supposedly common words it didn't exist and formal Albanian language with rules and everything else so basically everyone could write any word as he heard it or thought it should be written and still be the correct way to write it.



"Worm" would be "Krimb" which exist as an adverb too, "i/e krimbur" and means "Rotten".

For "bones" the word this author means, I suppose is "Eshtra", which is an sort of old word, rarely used today. "Është" is third person, singular, Present Tense, Demostrative Way of the verb "To Be" (Jam-Alb)

As for "great" the word again I suppose is "i/e Madh". I think in the Albanian Language thread this word has already been "discussed", and I think is a PIE word in Albanian. Like for example in Greek (if i'm not mistaken) the word or one of the words for great or big is "mega", which you don't need to be an expert to say that "madh" and "mega" either are loan words or one-another or have a common root.

IDK but this guy doesn't seem a very good linguistic or at least with little knowledge in Albanian not to say none at all.

yes its a long time ago and words change from all languages

[h=1]Die Sprache der Albanesen oder Schkipetaren / von J. Ritter von Xylander[/h] Author Xylander, Josef Ritter von 1794-1854 Subjects Albanian language; Albanian language -- Grammar


Since the italian Bianchi in the 17th century claimed albanian to be Epirote as he found albanian people and writing in southern italy to match what he found in albania , Ritter von xylander caliamed albanan to be of persian origin , via migration through Wallachia ( vlachs?)
 
yes its a long time ago and words change from all languages

Die Sprache der Albanesen oder Schkipetaren / von J. Ritter von Xylander

Author Xylander, Josef Ritter von 1794-1854 Subjects Albanian language; Albanian language -- Grammar


Since the italian Bianchi in the 17th century claimed albanian to be Epirote as he found albanian people and writing in southern italy to match what he found in albania , Ritter von xylander caliamed albanan to be of persian origin , via migration through Wallachia ( vlachs?)

wallachians and Vlachs are not the same people,

Vlachs = aromani
 
i rechecked it , and its a pourre hundreds of years ago. maybe it a change like s was written as an f only 150 years.

maybe you can check these others

worm S=krimi A=krimp

bones S=asthi A =eshte

great S=mahat A=mad


its good to be mad in albanian !!!!

trust me, it's burre, cause the etymology is Pokorny's not mine. Also madh comes from *mag because of change of g -> dh as in dhembe (tooth) and dhe (ground, earth), cognates with latin "magnus", greek "mega" etc
 
Hellanicus of Lesbos however wrote that Tyrrhenians, were previously called Pelasgians, the pre Greek inhabitants of Greece and surroundings. The term Pelasgoi however, was also used as an ethnic designator at this time in north west Anatolia.

Similarly the Tyrrhanians (Etruscans) are also attested on the Kumdanli inscription, in Anatolia near lake Askania, which is modern Lake Burdur. This Etruscan link with the Pelasgians therefore is quite likely, because there were quite a few pre-Greek place names in Greece also that are not Greek in origin, nor are they IndoEuropean, but which have Etruscan etymologies. Spur=city & also citizenry/Etruscan, Corithos/Etruscan, Corinthos/Greece; Curtun/Etruscan, Gurton/Greece; tepa=hill/Etruscan, Thebes/Greece.

According to the Phoronis: "Phrastor was the son of Pelasgus, their king, and Menippe, the daughter of Peneus; his son was Amyntor, Amyntor's son was Tutamides, and the later's son was Nanas. In his reign the Pelasgians were driven out of their country by the Greeks, and after leaving their ships on the river Spines in the Ionian Gulf, they took Croton, an inland city and proceeding from there, they colonized the country (later) called Tyrrhenia."

Thucedetes [4.109,2] writes that the peninsula of Akte (Chalkidike), is inhabited by Tyrrhenians, showing that they weren't just from Anatolia. The town of Gergitha in the Troad, is tied to Hargita in Transylvania, inhabited by the Sicul, a tribe also associated with the Etruscans and mentioned on the victory Stella near Thebes.

bold from this link below
http://users.cwnet.com/millenia/The Etruscan People and language.htm

Etruscan from ancient Hungarian!, must be pre Magyars
 
Hellanicus of Lesbos however wrote that Tyrrhenians, were previously called Pelasgians, the pre Greek inhabitants of Greece and surroundings. The term Pelasgoi however, was also used as an ethnic designator at this time in north west Anatolia.

Similarly the Tyrrhanians (Etruscans) are also attested on the Kumdanli inscription, in Anatolia near lake Askania, which is modern Lake Burdur. This Etruscan link with the Pelasgians therefore is quite likely, because there were quite a few pre-Greek place names in Greece also that are not Greek in origin, nor are they IndoEuropean, but which have Etruscan etymologies. Spur=city & also citizenry/Etruscan, Corithos/Etruscan, Corinthos/Greece; Curtun/Etruscan, Gurton/Greece; tepa=hill/Etruscan, Thebes/Greece.

According to the Phoronis: "Phrastor was the son of Pelasgus, their king, and Menippe, the daughter of Peneus; his son was Amyntor, Amyntor's son was Tutamides, and the later's son was Nanas. In his reign the Pelasgians were driven out of their country by the Greeks, and after leaving their ships on the river Spines in the Ionian Gulf, they took Croton, an inland city and proceeding from there, they colonized the country (later) called Tyrrhenia."

Thucedetes [4.109,2] writes that the peninsula of Akte (Chalkidike), is inhabited by Tyrrhenians, showing that they weren't just from Anatolia. The town of Gergitha in the Troad, is tied to Hargita in Transylvania, inhabited by the Sicul, a tribe also associated with the Etruscans and mentioned on the victory Stella near Thebes.

bold from this link below
http://users.cwnet.com/millenia/The Etruscan People and language.htm

Etruscan from ancient Hungarian!, must be pre Magyars

wow at last,

can you find also the text that Atheneans Spoke Pelasgian before Greek?
 
Julia90, i start thinking that you are not really from Tuscany. Albanians genetically are more similar to some Greek population and to some southern Italians, but Tuscans are more similar to northern Italians.

Indeed. Infact to me she is not Tuscan at all. I know Tuscans and she try to portray them as more different as she can for unknown reasons. :useless:
 
well, i would say that jenerally i can recognize well albanians here in italy, but they fit well at least here in tuscany and in all italy.
Might i ask you if you have tuscan origins? Maybe you are corsican.
I find your posts quite useful, in the pat of the tosco ancient meaning

Albanians are very different phenotypically wise from Tuscans\Italians. Tuscans are mainly Atlanto-med, Alpine and a mix Dinarid\alpine\Med and it's very hard to find pure dinarids as you find in most Albanians in Italy. At most Tuscans can be med\dinarid alpine\dinarid or atlanto-med\dinarid, the pure dinarids are as uncommon as it can be.

You have weird concepts about your people, given that you are really Tuscan of course.
 
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