Politics Should Turkey Join The EU?

It seems this European project has become more a project about imperialism than of the european people. Turkey is not european, the idea that it is is forced by politicians. Boarders are socially constructed ideas, but continents are geographically constructed. Asia and Europe meet at the bospherus, not any where east of that. When I hear stats about how turkey would benefit the EU it just goes to show that the EU has stoped being a european project and more a world union, which is scary. I know Europe wants to be a geopolitical player again, but never in my life have I thought that "europe" boardered persia (iran). This whole Union is becommig more about power than anythign else.
 
If this is right, this would be a reason from the side of Europe to improve relations with Turkey as they then would economically gain from Turkisch accession in two ways: the widening of the market by consumers which become increasingly wealthy, and a growing produce. As for Turkey, it is not only an economic question, and they would gain from political stability and coherent frameworks offered by the EU.

what are your views on this?

I wish the better for Turkey and Europe and I think that a close economical and political cooperation between them will be a great gain for both.

Now, I do not want that a re-approchment between them be conditionated to international intrigue, or visions of geopolitical domination.

What should be the kind of economical cooperation that suits both parties?.

Well, currently there is a discussion of what went wrong in Spain, Portugal and Greece... why they did not benefited so much in the long term with access to the EU?

Part of the problem seems to reside in the unflexibility of monetary policy, specially the unability to set a competitive exchange rate TAILORED TO THEIR ECONOMIES...

http://www.politik.de/forum/eu/227036-sollen.html

So you see that sometimes, someone does wrong when intented to do good, and vice-versa.

For the moment, it is difficult to decide what will be the best for Turkey and Europe in the Economic sense.

In the political sense, it is more easy. Turkey should be given proof of good will by the part of the EU, even when this do not necessarily means to grant access to the EU. But I think it will a good moment by the part of Europe of some goodwill and friendship, for Turks have been psychologically very hard beatten by the current Islamophobia.

I agree that Turkey could be more stabilized in political sense by entering the EU, in the long term, and that will be of great benefit to this country.

Regards.
 
Pro-Europe,

while you certainly make excellent points, I am nevertheless inclined to disagree

Regarding the European principles, indeed as you say they are not easily defined, just as the Turkish are not. Therefore it is important here to look at the commonalities rather then the differences, to look at possibilities, not obstacles.

Admittedly there are commonalities, yet how many? If basic agreements were the sole criterion for accession, the EU would encompass half the world.

While borders may be historically and socially constructed, they serve a purpose. Their use may be limited, but they must be taken into consideration. Furthermore, to offer a more populist answer, geography does matter very much to much of the European populace.

A remodelling of the Turkish agricultural sector may very well be beneficial in the end, but then I would plead for Turkey to join after said remodelling, as this would not pose an unnecessary financial burden on the EU. If Turkey cannot manage this modernisation on it's own, I find that sufficient proof that it is not ready to join the EU. The EU is not a development fund, after all, it is a legal and economical co-operation for mutual benefit.

Politically there is much potential in Turkey, yet as with the economy this potential must be (at least partially) reached before accession.

I disagree with what Sirius said about Turkey moving on. I believe the momentum has decreased, but Turkish political and economic ties to other nation states do not discredit EU potential. Diplomacy and politics are multilateral, not bilateral. I do, however, find a situation where Turkey has positive ties with the EU and others, yet is not a member of the EU, to be the ideal solution for all parties. If this is the direction Turkey is going, then that bodes well.
 
My favorite intellectual, Christopher Hitchens does a 'talking Turkey' segment on Radio free europe/ Radio Liberty interview which was uploaded on youtube, its a good watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR7p6LUHjkw&feature=channel

Erdogan quote; "democracy is like getting on a bus or a train, you ride it untill you get to where you want to go then get off"
 
Good link Elias, I like Hitchens, almost like hearing my ideas and ideology from someone else's lips.

Barbarian please listen to few interviews of Hitchens. This is pretty much the Western thinking. West is not just about superpowers, armies, money and greed. West is also about liberty, humanitarian help, sharing, empathy, sympathy and democracy. It comes as a package wherever West comes with help, war or both, these days.
The consequences are often unpredictable and methods clumsy, or local culture too alien to Western ideas, but intentions are good....but that's a different story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcRPDeDQeCw&NR=1
 
Comrades
What about Russia in EU to 2050 year? hahahahahahaha
 
Comrades
What about Russia in EU to 2050 year? hahahahahahaha

Why not post a thread asking that? This is about Turkey.

Well, I wanna see reactions :LOL::LOL:

As for Turkey, I am not sure that they see themselves as european
http:/www (dot) welt (dot) de/politik/ausland/article12109622/Erdogan-traeumt-von-arabisch-tuerkischer-Weltmacht.html
(I can't give direct link because did not write 10 messages)

Some text from this German article (2 weeks ago freshness):

Turkish prime-minister Erdogan said a speech in Kuwait about how he wanna create union with arabic countries. He called to remember the community of Arabs and Turks which connects them historically.

This community, according to Erdogan, is based primarily on Islam, as well as the joint struggle against the Christian invaders. "Together, the Turks and Arabs were able to protect these lands during the Crusades" - he said. And in the next eras "we fought together against the invaders", said Erdogan, also mentioning "the occupation of Erzurum.

According to Erdogan, today should awaken to new life "1000 years of brotherhood" and create "a political, economic and cultural union". "We belong to one civilization. We have a common history ", - stressed Erdogan.

"We take the pain the people of Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan as own pain" - said Erdogan. In each of these three countries American military strikes killed many Muslims. "If one of the organs of the body is in pain, then the whole body feels pain. And, if brutally victimized children of Gaza, we feel the same pain as if brutally victimized by our own children. The problem of Gaza - is our problem. The problem of Jerusalem - that is our problem".

In addition to the evaluation of a new and better world, built with the help of a new solidarity between Turks and Arabs, Mr. Erdogan referred to the European Union. "On the one hand, we will continue to pursue negotiations with the European Union on the other hand, we will not turn away from those regions with which we are bound by centuries of shared history." According to Erdogan, nobody abroad can not say that it has an impact on Turkey's foreign policy. "Some people criticize us when we talk about Baghdad, Kabul, Gaza, Jerusalem and Palestine ... We define our foreign policy. We will implement its own foreign policy program. Arabs - they are our brothers and sisters. "

Erdogan stressed that Islamic terror does not exist. Anyone who deals with terror, not a Muslim, because Islam means "peace", he said. This means that we should do away with non-Muslim terror, what can be done with the help of God, and with the help of a new solidarity of Turkish and Arab brotherly countries.

That's all from article, not my
 
http://www.cyprusupdates.com/2011/02/erdogan-furious-over-tomorrows-rally-in-northern-cyprus/

"Turkish Cypriot Trade Unions announced that there will be a second major protest against the Prime Minister of Turkey tomorrow Monday 7th, in the wake of offensive statements about the January 28th rally in occupied Nicosia.
Furious about the protests Turkey’s Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, did not hesitate to reiterate that the Cypriot Government is behind them and urged the Turkish Cypriot leadership to deal with them. He added that Turkey will take measures against them since it cannot tolerate this attitude from Turkish Cypriots. Speaking on the phone with T/C leader Dervis Eroglu he expressed his anger about the situation, and using sharp words referred to the involved trade unions in the style of ‘who are they’ and said that they should be brought to court. Following their phone conversation Eroglu held a meeting this afternoon with the parliamentary party leaders to assess the situation."

I said it before I'll say it again, this guy is a nutjob.
 
No, it's the ottoman empire. no, genocide. (also germany commited a genocide but germany recognized it). No, too many people 70,000,000 (it would be the second biggest eu nation)

in order to join turkey should admit the genocide and should convert in to bizantine empire, and abandon islam and become christian. (and be less proud to be muslim)

I would support more Israel as a Eu member.
Richer. business people.
Judaico-Christian unity.
Jews shaped europe.

althought it's in war (so it is dangerous for eu, because we would be attacked by more islamic kamikaze)
some people are religiuos integralistic (and in integralist family women have to be pregnant and to give birth to many children; althought i think this form of backwardness it's not as diffused), infact israel is socially and economically occidental (more than many europe occidental countries)
 
You don't even have to bring out all those points, julia90.

EU stand for "European Union" which implies an organization formed by european countries. Turkey is not an european country. I don't get why some people/politicians have a hard time understanding such a simple concept. We should not even be debating about this.

The thing is Germany needs new markets to expand into.

Regards.
 
One set back to possible expansion to Turkey would be the sheer potential risk of power shift in Europe. My point being Germany is a country of 81 million people and is about 4th on nominal GDP, Turkey is a country of 77 million people and is only 17th in nominal GDP. If Turkey joined the EU and prospered economically it could potential become more economically powerful that GB France Spain and Italy. Would european nations be prepared to dance to a Turkish tune?
 
The thing is Germany needs new markets to expand into.

I don't think Germany would be pleased. Germany would be unpliesed, don't they have turks in germany? (Germans don't want immigrants, like they didn't want italians who firstly arrived in germany), so i will be more easy to turkish living there easily.

I'm not racist, but i'm against islam (i don't belive islam could ever become a pacific religion).

Albania is islamic, but it's very small, it only has 7,000,000 vs 70,000,000 and anyway turkey is more religious. Islanm souldn't become the second religions per hinabitants in europe.

I'm not racist, i repeat, infact i consider turkish people with similar looks to italians, but it's the religions that i don't want to be in europe.
 
You don't even have to bring out all those points, julia90.

EU stand for "European Union" which implies an organization formed by european countries. Turkey is not an european country. I don't get why some people/politicians have a hard time understanding such a simple concept. We should not even be debating about this.

The thing is Germany needs new markets to expand into.

Regards.

Do you have any profound information on the fact that Germany supports Turkey's membership more than any other EU country? Here is some description on that issue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_–_Turkey_relations
 
Last sunday Erdogan hold a speech again in Germany infront of thousands of Turks, in which he argued kids with Turkish background should learn Turkish first before they learn German. With every effort we try to take to integrate Turks into German society the Turkish press and politicians try to humiliate us as Nazis with the aim of depriving other people of their culture, stopping every further argument. With this mentality I can't imagine Turkey would react any differently on large scale politics, like if they were in the EU, would give a damn to what other EU-members say.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_Germany
 
Last sunday Erdogan hold a speech again in Germany infront of thousands of Turks, in which he argued kids with Turkish background should learn Turkish first before they learn German. With every effort we try to take to integrate Turks into German society the Turkish press and politicians try to humiliate us as Nazis with the aim of depriving other people of their culture, stopping every further argument. With this mentality I can't imagine Turkey would react any differently on large scale politics, like if they were in the EU, would give a damn to what other EU-members say.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_Germany

What kind of integration do the Germans want for the Turks living there?

What will be your ideal of integration?.

Could the Turks even become German, in all the sense of the word, like for example, a second generation Irish or German could become an "American", "Canadian" or "Brazilian"?

++++++++++++++++++++++

Now, combine the attitude of Julia90, saying that the Turk have to renounce they religion to be "accepted", with that claim of nazism, put a bit of salt of the worst kind of hypocrecy (ever seen in the history of Mankind)... an tell me if the result could be different to this...

muslim1.jpg


muslim2.jpg


muslim3.jpg



What is more... if you just take it IN A STRICT LITERAL WAY... one should applaud the worst hypocrecy (that it is) as the FINAL TRUTH about Turks in Germany.

So, the claim that Erdogan think that young Turks should learn Turkish first, could be interpeted not as to an undully "intromission", or "serch for turkish supremacism" in German society... but as the possibility of a massive return of Turks (and many Turks ARE returning to Turkey), given the need...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3WDK1PPkyk
 
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in order to join turkey should admit the genocide and should convert in to bizantine empire, and abandon islam and become christian. (and be less proud to be muslim)

I guess the Turks will never be European, then.

I would support more Israel as a Eu member.
Richer. business people.
Judaico-Christian unity.
Jews shaped europe.

althought it's in war (so it is dangerous for eu, because we would be attacked by more islamic kamikaze)

some people are religiuos integralistic (and in integralist family women have to be pregnant and to give birth to many children; althought i think this form of backwardness it's not as diffused), infact israel is socially and economically occidental (more than many europe occidental countries)

You Eurpeans could like Israel all that you like...

That doen't I give it the right to attack neighbouring countries or peoples, like it did with Lebanon in 2006 or more recently in Ghaza.

For me it will be interesting to know your opinion about the civilians killed in those aggressions...

And don't worry, Julia90, I PERSONALLY ASSURE YOU that Erdogan is not "begging" the entrance in the E.U.

Please, tell me what you think about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY83lsO5VrM

Regards.
 
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Lynx
The thing is Germany needs new markets to expand into.

It already has Spain. Do you think is working?

Do you like the amazing socio-economic progress you are experiencing as of today?

Don't forget to say "thanks".

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, I sense that in this threat there are some people that not to have here Erdogan himself, or so many Turks to insult and difame... to that people, I say friendly: Don't worry, I am here... hopefully you will like the surrogate.

This is definitely a topic that I like...

Regards.
 

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