Cloning

How do you see cloning ?

  • Favourably

    Votes: 22 23.7%
  • It could be a good thing

    Votes: 29 31.2%
  • I don't like it too much

    Votes: 23 24.7%
  • Dead against

    Votes: 9 9.7%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 5 5.4%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 5 5.4%

  • Total voters
    93
If humans are at the brahmin in the animal castes, shouldn't it be logical to classify each and every (genetically different) human from the most to the least developped, intelligent, capable, strong, beautiful, etc. ? The difficulty is choosing the criteria... Not everyone can be beautiful, intelligent and physically resistant at the same time.

Yes, unfortunately, it is logical, and rather offends one's sense of fairness. When I think of humanity as a unit among other different units in the context of The Animal Kindom (echoechoechoecho), our clearest differentiating point is the conscious intelligence that is the jewel of our animal setting. Yet it is that very gem that makes it possible to consider humanity as its own kingdom with its own set of rules and criterion.

The point I was making was not that intelligence must be the criterion for making value decisions; my point was that even if you decide on a criterion for judgement, how do you judge? Using my example of intelligence as a criterion, which I favor, there is no clear point at which one goes from being non-intelligent to being intelligent. If you assume that there is this theoretical breaking point, you can follow the instinctive animal kingdom logic to its conclusion. A caste system somehow always shows up in this kind of logic. The most prevalent criterion-based caste system that figures in the cloning debate (actually, in most ethical debates) is Christian.
But I don't like to talk about religion.
:p
 
cloning is necessary. without cloning many medicines wouldnt be available today and a many peoples life would be a nightmare because of that. cloning is the only way to deal with certein diseases and i understand but oppose people who are against cloning and thus against help for many people just because of their belief. if we have the possibility to research matters that can help us we must do so imho.
 
Not acceptable

:angryfire :angryfire
It's insane. Do we not have enough "fake" individuals on this earth already? I can not find one good reason for cloning. Fill me in... What is the purpose. Please!?
 
Not tellin' you, coz you're freaking me out with the "!". Can tell you're one angry person. Stay away from me, please.
:)
 
Maciamo,

I completely agree with you on this one! And congratulations on the BBC acknowledgment. I can see why they wanted to use your arguments.

Satori
:)
 
congratulations on the BBC acknowledgment GREAT MACIAMO!!!!

Wow Cloning....This could be drawn out but...
:note:
I believe in all its a good ideal with those nasty little side-effects. Like Good for medical use, but then after taking that kideny or that eye from your clone...what!? That clone is now not beautiful or what do they just kill that clone and use its body for parts!?!?! I mean after cloning that clone becomes a person. There probally be a war between Real people and so called clones about wheter they should be allowed to be used like that.

whew...

Then theres the overpopulation thing. Even though it could bring back the greatest joy to someone who lost a young child in an accident or something along the lines...you have to think about space. How many people are going to do that. Is it morally right!?!? What if the same thing happens again. That means there's two times as much as the first death. And this planet has been labeled as being too small for our population anyway in the near future thats why were seeking out side words, moon, spacestation, to house some of the human race....

whew whew......

Now the endangered species is a beautiful ideal! I love seeing animals flourish where they once were drowning. But the thing about brining back the mammoth is a little farfetched. It would be great to see one, but like twisted said the food chain. Then your going to have one scientist thinkin about dinosaurs!?!? And we don't need jurassic park on our hands. It would throw the whole Food Chain out of whack......but then again overpopulation wouldn't be a problem anymore because a good portion of us would get eaten keeping us at a good enough ratio between the top of the food chain and the next in line.....

whew whew whew.....

This is too much but last i think i shall speak on god...
Actually no.Some think its wrong and some think its right but wasn't eve created from a rib from adam.. :?
Just something to think about. :note:
 
Concerns about cloning is not about the misuse of it, for example building an army of 100 Arnolds... :)

When we had a discussion about cloning with my friends, concerns were mostly focused on what should it be used for?

As the admin stated before, noone will be using this to create new Hitler.

However, it is going to be used for medical purposes, such that for someone having an kidney inadequacy. It is really hard to find the right kidney for you. The tissues should match and the probability of finding the correct match is very low. Cloning is going to be used in these kind of situations. But how? You will be cloned and the kidney of the cloned one will be used... But what about the rest of the cloned one? Should it be used for spare part? :(

We couldn't come up with a proper conclusion on this topic...

I recently learned that specific organs are being produced using stem cells without building the whole body. This seems a quite nice method for medical purposes. However, the question about spare part body rests unanswered.


On the other hand, cloning is favourable because it is a hope for sterile people...

(addition: after i have read the whole discussion, i realized that other friends had already stated the concerns on spare body...)
 
I'm all for it. The potential for the advancement of medicine is huge. Sure, it could also be misused, but I don't think it would be more dangerous to humanity than, say, nuclear weapons.
 
Maciamo said:
Personally, I don't see any problem with cloning.

As in my opinion humans are no more than more intelligent animals, human and animal or plant cloning should not be seen differently. There has been sheep or other animals cloned years ago, but the population has accepted it. What's the difference with humans. I hear people saying its dangerous. Why ? Why human clones are more dangerous than animal's ?

Totally agree, Maciamo. Cloning will only lead to more and more medical advancements in various fields. For instance, you could pay to have a clone made of you, and it's organs harvested.

Ethics people will complain (do they ever not?) but I think it hypocritical of anyone to complain about it, when at the same time they eat meat from animals which have been bred to be harvested and die. I don't see why humans have any more 'rights' than animals.

I don't believe cells have 'dignity' or a soul. We're all just organisms. We just happen to be a lot cleverer than any other on the planet and able to exploit our own bodies because of our knowledge of science.
 
Areku said:
For instance, you could pay to have a clone made of you, and it's organs harvested.
A complete clone of you would be a complete human being, hence would have all human rights. Harvesting impossible!
A completely different thing would be cloning of single organs, though.
 
I don't see any problems on cloning. I think it's just the next logical step to take when advancing in this field. There could be a lot of good things coming from it.
Of course there is the risk of abuse, but pretty much everything could be abused if you really want it :relief:
 
bossel said:
A complete clone of you would be a complete human being, hence would have all human rights. Harvesting impossible!
A completely different thing would be cloning of single organs, though.

Well...red tape would make sure of that, yeah. It's definitely over the line between what people would accept and what they wouldn't.

Imagine though, that thanks to an accelerated growth process, you could have a tissue sample grown into an adult clone within weeks/months. Obviously the 'organism' would have next to no intelligence...would you let it be harvested to save you life/improve your health?

In the realms of sci fi there at the moment, heh, but space travel was sci fi not so long ago..
 
I can see the good and bad aspects of cloning. I would hope that it would be used for medical purposes but I'm sure it will work its way into a military advantage etc...
 
Wow, there are some real thinkers in this forum, and sadly some real "un-thinkers." I know some of you are joking or speaking hypothetically when discussing the sci-fi stuff, but I'm surprised at the level of ignorance found in some people. Quite incredible...
 
Areku said:
Well...red tape would make sure of that, yeah. It's definitely over the line between what people would accept and what they wouldn't.

Imagine though, that thanks to an accelerated growth process, you could have a tissue sample grown into an adult clone within weeks/months. Obviously the 'organism' would have next to no intelligence...would you let it be harvested to save you life/improve your health?

In the realms of sci fi there at the moment, heh, but space travel was sci fi not so long ago..
Hmm, as long as the clone has a brain & a nervous system I would still call it a human being. Maybe if it is possible to grow a clone without, but I don't see the use in it. It's easier & cheaper to grow single organs, not to mention that there will be much fewer ethical discussions.

What's more, it will probably be possible to grow human organs industrially, instead of cloning them individually. It's only a matter of time.
 
I hope so. But what about when everyone is 120, with a fully working body but no intelligence?

They'd have to find a way to synthesise a chemical which stops the braincells dying...in which case immortality may well be a possibility.

Honestly, I think within time, they'll be able to heal anything. Body split in half, bullet wounds, whatever. As long as the body is recovered in time of course.
 
My opinion is:
Cloning people - interesting but people dont get it. You are just making a person, its nothing to do with them physically how they turn out, havn't you all seen that Eddy Murphy film? :D

Cloning - ok now were talking. Instead of thinking "i need a kidney! lets clone a person and take theirs! *evil maniacal laugh*" lets think 'lets clone a kidney!'. We should look more into making new organs and the sort. Stem cells have ALOT of potential. Someone mentioned living to 150. And? So? In many developed countries the birth rate is falling, its normal for this to happen in developed countries. What was the average age 50 years ago? 100 years ago? 500 years ago? eh? EH? EH?!?! tired...

GM Food - bring it on. Whats better? People in third world countries being able to grow insect/disease/weather resistant food in abundance or starving to death? Most the time its where you get a plant, lets say wheat and you mix in somthing else to improve its weaknesses. Farmer have been doing this forever with plants, crossbreeding animals and plants to make them better, only now we can do it in a lab and get results quicker. Think about it.

"Concerns about cloning is not about the misuse of it, for example building an army of 100 Arnolds... "
You want an army of 100 arnolds? Find 100 dedicated body builders. He's that way from years of focused work at getting his body that way.
 
The problem with living to 150 is that the most likely scenario is a very regressed human brain inside the healthy body of a 30 year old, unable to work and suffering from things like strokes all the time because of the inability to replace the cerebral arteries or brain itself. Which would mean a big drain on money, big drain on housing....thus huge taxes and property prices.
 
You know whats funny? Out of 277 adults, Dolly was the only surviving adult, so if we can't properly and safely clone sheep yet, I don't think we should be worrying about the ethical issues created when cloning parts of human organs for harvesting or even cloning entire humans. Most of you out there don't really get cloning and its not like the stuff in the movies. Genetic issues come up, or the cells are aged, or organs that are cloned are oversized, or the fetus is still born, and the list if compications goes on.
It'll be decades before scientists can actually properly and safely clone a human being, if the U.S. doesn't ban cloning and force other nations to do so too once the conservatives completly take over...
But don't get me wrong, I am totally for cloning and I believe that it can benefit the human race in many ways.
 

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