Question Do you forgive people easily ?

Would you forgive someone more easily if they

  • apologized => I am a Japanese woman

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • apologized => I am a Japanese man

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • apologized => I am a non-Japanese woman

    Votes: 8 17.4%
  • apologized => I am a non-Japanese man

    Votes: 5 10.9%
  • had a good excuse => I am a Japanese woman

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • had a good excuse => I am a Japanese man

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • had a good excuse => I am a non-Japanese woman

    Votes: 5 10.9%
  • had a good excuse => I am a non-Japanese man

    Votes: 3 6.5%
  • Neither

    Votes: 9 19.6%
  • Either

    Votes: 13 28.3%

  • Total voters
    46

Maciamo

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One think that took me a long time to understand in the Japanese mentality is that after doing something wrong (e.g. arriving late, forgetting to do something you were asked to do, etc.), the Japanese do not want to hear justifications or excuses, but simply an apology ("I am sorry").

This is something that hugely conflict with my own way of thinking, because it is the exact opposite of how I feel about it. If someone does something wrong that angers me, an apology, even formal in serious cases, and even prostrating oneself to the ground and cry, will have little or no effect on me.

The thing is I do not forgive easily and certainly not forget. But the best way to obtain forgiveness is not to apologize for one's deeds, but to repair the wrong done, or if it is not so serious, find a good justification. Actually, I am more likely to forgive someone who tries hard to find a good excuses (if possible with supporting facts) than someone who simply apologizes. But I realised that in Japan, the best justification (even with hard facts and witnesses) will mean nothing until the person has apologized. Once someone say "sorry", that's it, and everything is cleared as if nothing had happened !
This is as much true for politicians involved in serious scandals or doctors who committed some malpractice and caused someone (or several people)'s death, as with the HIV contaminated blood transfusion case showed a few years ago.

What about you ?
 
I sincere apology goes a long way with me. I think the reason should follow the apology.

The worst is when the "offender" tries to deny they did anything wrong, just makes like the situation isn't a big deal, or tries to push the blame on to someone else.
 
I agree with Brooker: I forgive people fairly easily if they sincerely apologize, accept responsibility for what they have done, and show that they are attempting to avoid doing it again. If I believe that any of these conditions is not met, then forgiveness comes rarely, and after a long time if at all (usually just so that I can move on with my life, not to make the other person feel better). I have a bad habit of holding grudges if I feel that the situation hasn't been resolved.
 
Your poll should regard whether or not you live in Japan rather than if you're Japanese. I, for example, am a Japanese-American, and do not fit your Japanese criteria.
 
Martyr said:
Your poll should regard whether or not you live in Japan rather than if you're Japanese. I, for example, am a Japanese-American, and do not fit your Japanese criteria.

If you were raised with Japanese values, that's fine.

Brooker said:
The worst is when the "offender" tries to deny they did anything wrong, just makes like the situation isn't a big deal, or tries to push the blame on to someone else.

But sometimes it is really somebody else's fault. What if you arrive late at an appointment because someone you met just before does not want to let you go (continue talking and following you) even when you tell them you have to go ? What if there is a traffic accident in front of you that completely blocks the traffic ? These are all good excuses, as long as they are not lies (a proof to support the justification is always better, but not always easy to find).

When it is entirely one's fault, then there is little choice but apologizing. That rarely happens to me (eg. I might completely forget about an appointment once every 2 years or so), but when it does I feel extremely embarassed and confused ("how could that have happened ?"). But in that case, I would try to make the other person a favour to repay my error, as I don't feel the apology itself is worth anything, no matter how sincere it is.
 
Maciamo said:
But sometimes it is really somebody else's fault. What if you arrive late at an appointment because someone you met just before does not want to let you go (continue talking and following you) even when you tell them you have to go ? What if there is a traffic accident in front of you that completely blocks the traffic ? These are all good excuses, as long as they are not lies (a proof to support the justification is always better, but not always easy to find).

I wasn't even thinking of those types of situations as being "forgivable," because it wasn't their fault. However, I just realized that fault is irrelevant, so forgiving someone for being caught up in such situations would be easy for me. I'd probably be more angry at the person who wouldn't shut up, or the person (or people) who caused the wreck than the unfortunate victim of those situations.
 
I'm sometimes a little late for work just because I couldn't find any parking (which only happens infrequently). My coworker who works the previous shift can't leave until I get there, so even ten minutes can be a little inconvenient if you have plans after work. So, when I show up, I apologize for the inconvenient situation even though it's not really my fault and then explain the reason.
 
Glenn said:
I wasn't even thinking of those types of situations as being "forgivable," because it wasn't their fault. However, I just realized that fault is irrelevant, so forgiving someone for being caught up in such situations would be easy for me. I'd probably be more angry at the person who wouldn't shut up, or the person (or people) who caused the wreck than the unfortunate victim of those situations.

Japanese people expect you to apologize even if it's not your fault. No matter if you are the victim, you caused somebody to wait for you, and must apologize. I guess I am so used to it now that I forgot myself that I was thinking like you that there is no reason to apologize when it's not your fault. A real excuse (someone else's fault) should be enough. However, in my experience the Japanese only want to hear your excuse, as they don't know the third party and don't know whether your story is true or not. And apologies are required also between intimiate people, not just in formal situtation like work. For example, my wife would expect an apology from me if I could buy something she asked for at the supermarket because I was stuck ar work until the supermarket was closed. In my experience, it's just pointless to explain what happened. The only thing they want to hear is an apology and that's all (even without a word of explanation, they just don't care about the "why" part).

Brooker said:
So, when I show up, I apologize for the inconvenient situation even though it's not really my fault and then explain the reason.

Yes, me too; in such a case, I apologize then explain. But what I really want to know in this thread is which one matters most to you: the apology and the explanation. In my case, an apology alone will not do, but a good explanation is ok. For the Japanese (I think I can really say "almost all" of them in this case, not just a general trend, but almost a hard fact), what matters is the apology, and the best reason/explanation you may have will just be useless until the word "sorry" comes out, no matter if it's your fault or not.

That tends to irritate me, because some Japanese people I know think that by just saying sorry that is enough to justify anything they have done. I can think of one or two students of mine in particular who forget to come to the (one-to-one) lesson. After waiting 20 minutes, I call them and they just say "oh I forgot, sorry (I have said the magic word, so I am forgiven, right)".
 
Japanese people apologize at the drop of a hat, so, to NOT apologize, would indicate to them that you just completely don't care at all. I remember Japanese people would apologize to me when I held the elevator door open for them. I always thought that was strange as they obviously had done nothing wrong.
 
Brooker said:
I'm sometimes a little late for work just because I couldn't find any parking (which only happens infrequently). My coworker who works the previous shift can't leave until I get there, so even ten minutes can be a little inconvenient if you have plans after work. So, when I show up, I apologize for the inconvenient situation even though it's not really my fault and then explain the reason.

I understand what you are saying, but after it happened once, it is your fault the next time. You should have adjusted your time accordingly so that it doesn't happen again! I have a similar work situation. My co-worker can't leave until I arrive. I know that it takes me 20 minutes with no interruptions to get to work, but I always factor in extra time to ensure that I am never late. (it has happened once) After that time I also ensured that I had a back up route to work in case the traffic was backed up again. Now I have four routes planned in order to drive to work in case something comes up!
 
I really don't see the point in refusing an apology. Better to accept it and move on, I think. Then again, even if I accept an apology doesn't mean I won't be weary from that point on. Mistakes are forgivable, but there is a big difference between kindness and stupidity. Example: I might forgive a friend whole stole money from me, but from that point on I'll be sure to prevent the same thing from happening again.
 
CC1 said:
I understand what you are saying, but after it happened once, it is your fault the next time. You should have adjusted your time accordingly so that it doesn't happen again! I have a similar work situation. My co-worker can't leave until I arrive. I know that it takes me 20 minutes with no interruptions to get to work, but I always factor in extra time to ensure that I am never late. (it has happened once) After that time I also ensured that I had a back up route to work in case the traffic was backed up again. Now I have four routes planned in order to drive to work in case something comes up!

Doesn't the fact that I would apologize show that, at least to some degree, I would share in the blame? Point was, in a situation like that, at least a small apology is necessary whether you are at FAULT or not. Because I know that in a situation like that, whatever the reasons, the bottom line is that you weren't there on time.
 
I forgive very easily wether a person apologizes or not. I just find it really hard to be mad at people.
 
mad pierrot said:
I really don't see the point in refusing an apology. Better to accept it and move on, I think. Then again, even if I accept an apology doesn't mean I won't be weary from that point on.

From my point of view, the apology is optional. I am never going to request an apology from someone (I have never asked for any). I may ask for a justification and/or reparation, but what does it change to get an apology, especially that you can never be sure whether it is sincere or not with some people.

Mistakes are forgivable, but there is a big difference between kindness and stupidity. Example: I might forgive a friend whole stole money from me, but from that point on I'll be sure to prevent the same thing from happening again.

As I say, "forgiven but not forgotten". ;)
 
I think I am forgiving to a fault. I have gotten hurt more than a few times because of it.

As for the Japanese people and their apologies, I find they can be insincere a lot of the time. They are programmed to say they're sorry for everything, so who is to say that they really are sorry. I've heard many sorries in the past near decade that just sounded routine to me. Even for more 'major' things.
 
I voted "neither". It depends on the circumstances, whether it's a repeat offense, whether it was avoidable with some forethought or consideration, and what kind of person has committed the infraction. I see explanations (an analysis of what led to the wrongdoing/offense) and excuses ("it's just who I am" "it couldn't be helped") to be separate things as well. I also don't really care about apologies if they're insincere or if it ends up being meaningless (i.e. the person at fault continues to live life without adjusting to minimize this sort of problem in future).

I can forgive those I love easily, but I have very low expectations of people that I do not respect (which I find a healthier attitude to have since that way they're like to surprise me in a pleasant way, or at least confirm my low opinion of them - either way it's not a shock or maybe it's less irritating?) But I also pick my battles - I'll keep in mind what people have done that's affected me adversely in the past (so that I don't keep making the same mistakes either, like trusting them to be on time or whathaveyou) but I won't stew over past transgressions - life is too short to waste on negativity.
 
well, an apology would do for me, except in some really bad cases...then a apology + reason would do...it's just a japanese thing I think...like with the honor thing in Japan...
 
As for the Japanese people and their apologies, I find they can be insincere a lot of the time. They are programmed to say they're sorry for everything, so who is to say that they really are sorry. I've heard many sorries in the past near decade that just sounded routine to me. Even for more 'major' things.
The ones I know tend not to apologize as much to foreign foreigners or people they don't respect, though, it's all a status thing....which I'm just beginning to have to put up with. :p
 
I would require both. Of course, depending upon the circumstances! For example...if a worker is late, I expect an excuse. If it happens more than once, I expect both. The apology serves as an acknowledgement of a mistake, and the excuse provides me with the necessary information to determine if disciplinary action is warranted.

If it is a child, I am more lenient and willing to forgive as they are still in the learning process, but I still expect an apology! :sorry:
 

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