Who invented what ?

Maciamo said:
This is because Disney anime are almost exclusively destined to children, while Japanese anime/manga (and Belgian comics) aren't. This partly has to do with the stigma on "maturity" in Western countries. Anime are just not considered to be for adults in the West (even in Belgium, although comics are ok, as long as they are not made for a younger audience in the first place). The Japanese do not have this "complex", which explains why the industry has grown so big. They also don't have complex about hentai or other adult-only stuff. People just read that in the train in front of everyone and nobody cares. That's a very big cultural gap with all Western countries.

Very good point. Something I haven't given much thought to. You are quite correct in pointing out that that the Japanese and Belgians do not have this complex so prevalent in the west, especially here in America. If one were to read a Japanese hentai manga here on the train or in public they would probably be arrested and labeled a "sex offender." He/she would then have to register with the local police wherever they lived or moved to. I can not, for the life of me, understand this American puritanical obsession that "anything to do with sex is bad."

This is quite an anomoly here as sexual innuendo is and is so prevelant on TV and in music and such. All one has to do is look at an episode of "Desperate Housewives" or watch any night time sitcom or drama and sex is the main theme! But talk about it in public or look at a hentai magazine and you are labeled a pervert!

One fine example of this hypocrisy is Fox News' Bill O'Reilly and his most popular prime time show "The O'Reilly Factor." He always talks about how bad sexual innuendo is and is so prevalent here in the US and how America is going downhill because of it, and he is always rallying against it. But he, Mr. Perfect, was caught in a sex scandal a couple of months ago, where he paid millions to the woman he offended with his talk of masturbation and phone sex and such to drop her lawsuit and he refuses to talk about it. What a freakin' hypocrit. And to think I used to listen to what he said because I believed he "was looking out for me"! No more!

I always respected Japan and some other European countries for their practical views towards sex. One can watch a movie in Japan on prime time and see a couple having mild sex or a breast exposed here or there and no one bats an eyelash. But let a microsecond of Janet Jackson's breast be exposed on national TV here in the US, and America goes nuts banning anything to do with sex, verbally on the radio, or visually on TV! What puritanical hypocitical bastards! The rest of the world probably thinks we are nuts!
 
Pachipro said:
You are quite correct in pointing out that that the Japanese and Belgians do not have this complex so prevalent in the west, especially here in America.

Err, actually the Belgians are maybe halfway between Japan and the US. It is definitely a no-no to read a hentai comic or porn magazine in public in Belgium, although there are (a few) Belgian hentai comics.

If one were to read a Japanese hentai manga here on the train or in public they would probably be arrested and labeled a "sex offender." He/she would then have to register with the local police wherever they lived or moved to.

Wow, it's that bad in the States !? :shocked: In Europe people would around would probably laugh to themselves, or feel uncomfortable, or even tell off the person reading porn (especially if there are children around). But the police wouldn't do anything. In Japan people don't react at all and find it natural, even in front of kids. That's one step further.

This is quite an anomoly here as sexual innuendo is and is so prevelant on TV and in music and such.
... One can watch a movie in Japan on prime time and see a couple having mild sex or a breast exposed here or there and no one bats an eyelash.

Yes, I have never quite understood this American dilemma. More sex in American moviesand TV than in almost any other country's productions, then the puritans make all a fuss about a pop star's breast.

However, I have to say that sex or nudity on Japanese TV is extremely rare. Look at French or Italian TV and you'll see nudity in almost all commercial breaks (eg. soap or shampoo ads). In Japan we may see a nude back, but I haven't seen even a nude breast in commercials. That's also contradictory given that all conveniences stores are filled with porn (even in regular magazines and newspapers) and people don't mind reading it in public. As for sex offenders, it's clear that Japan has a much more relaxed attitude even than Europe, as molesters or people masturbating in trains often don't get anything (maybe because nobody complains, although it's been recently changing).
 
Maciamo said:
Err, actually the Belgians are maybe halfway between Japan and the US. It is definitely a no-no to read a hentai comic or porn magazine in public in Belgium, although there are (a few) Belgian hentai comics.
kirei_na_me was right in her signature when she said, "It's funny how the conversation always turns to sex."

Anyway, while we're on it, I guess I misread your your post.

Wow, it's that bad in the States !? :shocked: In Europe people would around would probably laugh to themselves, or feel uncomfortable, or even tell off the person reading porn (especially if there are children around). But the police wouldn't do anything. In Japan people don't react at all and find it natural, even in front of kids. That's one step further.
Yes, it really is that bad here in the states. Get caught with a porn magazine or something like that in public and you will probably be arrested. They are so caught up in the pedophilia thing now that two young girls were recently murdered in Florida by former sex offenders who failed to register with the local police and the "Christian Right" here just won't let the subject alone.

One can be in serious trouble if they have any kind of porn around and their children find it and say something to others outside the family.

They are so crazy here that a few years ago the parents of a child were arrested because they took pictures of their 2 year old girl while she was being given a bath by the mother! A pretty normal thing by my standards. They sent the film to a local department store to have it developed and they were turned in and arrested for child pornography! Can you believe it? It's crazy!

However, I have to say that sex or nudity on Japanese TV is extremely rare. Look at French or Italian TV and you'll see nudity in almost all commercial breaks (eg. soap or shampoo ads). In Japan we may see a nude back, but I haven't seen even a nude breast in commercials.
That really has changed. I've noticed that also these past few visits. Back in the day, nudity on TV was quite prevailent. There was a show on NTV Ch4 everynight called "The 11pm Show" that used to highlight the best porn movies. I also remember a prime time show during New Years a few years back that allowed women into a popular rock concert for free if they would show their breasts to the camera. I watched it with my my wife and her parents and it was just as if it was a normal thing. No embarrassment, or comments such as "How filthy. Turn this off." or something to that effect. We all watched it and tried to guess which girls who were asked would do it.
I even remember when porn magazines were sold openly in vending machines in Japan. Much like beer. High school boys used to buy them and no one would think it was unusual. I don't see them anymore. Maybe JApan is getting too westernized.

I have no experience, but I have heard that the French, Italians, Swedes, and Dutch were much more open about those things on TV. We never hear about it here. America is really going over the deep end on something that is so natural. Why it is kept a secret and hidden and looked down upon when the innuendo is all over the place is beyond my comprehension. Must be the "Christian Right." Maybe that explains the high rate of teen pregnancy.

As for sex offenders, it's clear that Japan has a much more relaxed attitude even than Europe, as molesters or people masturbating in trains often don't get anything (maybe because nobody complains, although it's been recently changing).
I'm glad to see that's changing. I always though it quite disgusting to do something like that out in public! :shock:
 
bossel said:
Perhaps your personal experience is not representative? German statistics regarding medium class cars show the following top10 regarding reliability:

1 Toyota Avensis
2 Mercedes CLK
3 Audi A4/S4
4 Mercedes C-Klasse
5 Mazda 626
6 Mitsubishi Carisma
7 BMW 3
8 VW Passat
9 Citroen C5
10 Nissan Primera

I think it is. According to the most recent issue of "Consumer Reports" here in the USA they list the Most Reliable Cars (listed by catagory with top scorers first. All are much better than average) as follows:

Small Cars
1. Toyota Echo
2. Toyota Corolla
3. Scion xB (Toyota) (2nd most satisfying small car)

Hybrids
1. Toyota Prius (Most satisfying small car)
2. Honda Civic Hybrid (3rd most satisfying)

SportyCars/Convertables
1. Lexus SC430 (Most satisfying)
2. Toyota Celica
3. Acura RSX

Sedans
1. Lexus IS300
2. Toyota Camry (4-cyl.)
3. Lexus LS430 (Most satisfying upscale/luxury sedan)

Sport-Utility Vehicles
1. Mitsubishi Endeavor
2. Toyota Land Cruiser (Most satisfying Large SUV)
3. Toyota Highlander (3rd most satisfying mid-sized SUV)

Pickup Trucks
1. Toyota Tundra (Most satisfying pickup truck, Nissan Titan at #2)


The most LEAST RELIABLE Cars (listed by catagory with worst scorers first):

Small Cars
1. Volkswagen Golf (turbo)
2. Volkswagen New Beetle

Sporty Cars/Convertibles
1. Mercedes-Benz SL (2nd most satisfying, although 1st in unreliability)
2. Hyundai Tiburon
3. Mercedes-Benz CLK

Sedans
1. Merceds-Benz S Class
2. Jaguar S-Type
3. BMW 7 Series

Sport-Utility Vehicles
1. Lincoln NAvigator
2. Land Rover Freelander (Also the least satisfying SUV)
3. Volkswagen Touareg

Minivans
1. Nissan Quest
2. Mazda MPV

Pickup Trucks
1. Ford F-150 (4WD)

Please understand that Consumer Reports Magazine takes no advertising from no one at all and pays sticker price for every car they purchase. They put the cars through their own rigorous tests and they also survey their hundreds of thousands of readers on a yearly basis. They are completely unbiased. Their money comes from subscriptions and donations only. If it is found that a donation comes from someone related to a particular industry that money is returned.
Their findings are confirmed by the types of cars I have seen broken down throughout the entire Unites States these past 7 years that I have been driving. It is rare indeed to see a Japanese labeled car broken down.

I ask anyone out here to explain why not a single American or European vehicle is listed in the top 3 of most reliable cars here in the USA. Maybe the quality is different in Europe, I don't know. It is just something that I have been trying to find an answer to. Especially when Toyotas, Nissans, Fords, Chevys, Mercedes-Benz's, etc. are built here in the USA. Could it be that the Japanese have higher standards when it comes to quality control? I don't know. I'm just looking for a logical explaination.
 
dutch baka said:
WOW many things are from my country,,, SOOO SMALL BUT SO GREAT SOMETIMES... ( not with everything.... grrrr)

im proud



Nah, it's nothing compared to other countries.

In the ancient times it was China and Greece and China.

older times, England, France, Germany, Italy

Modern times, USA, Japan, Korea (look at those mobiles, wooot)

kind of in general


But Japan has a great musicscene, next to the american and british one.
Chinese is good too.
 
Pachipro said:
I think it is. According to the most recent issue of "Consumer Reports" here in the USA they list the Most Reliable Cars (listed by catagory with top scorers first. All are much better than average) as follows:

Interesting differences to Germany (although not completely comparable since the division into classes seems a bit different), but in Germany customer satisfaction is not included, so that may make the difference. The lists according reliability only:

Small Cars
1. BMW Mini
2. Mitsubishi Colt
3. Toyota Yaris
4. Opel Corsa
5. Citroen Saxo

Lower Medium Class
1. Audi A2
2. Mercedes A-Class
3. Honda Civic
4. Toyota Corolla
5. Ford Focus

Medium Class
- see above

Upper Medium Class
1. Audi A6/S6
2. Mercedes S-Class
3. Mercedes E-Class
4. BMW 5
5. Volvo S60/70/80/V70
6. Opel Omega

Sports Cars
1. Mercedes SLK
2. BMW Z3
3. Mazda MX 5
4. Audi TT

All-Terrain Vehicles (Sport-Utility Vehicles?)
1. Toyota RAV4
2. Mercedes ML
3. Mitsubishi Pajero
4. BMW X5

Vans
1. Nissan Almera
2. Mazda Premacy
3. Citroen Xsara Picasso
4. Mitsubishi Space Star
5. Volkswagen Transporter T4

In most lists the least reliable cars are either Italian or French brands. Statistics are by the ADAC (General German Automobile Association), also a non-profit organisation.

Interesting that Mercedes S-class in Germany is 2nd most reliable, while in the US it's most unreliable. Admittedly I don't drive very much, but I have never seen a broken down Mercedes.
 
Meiki said:
In the ancient times it was China and Greece and China.

older times, England, France, Germany, Italy

China didn't invent so much, even in ancient times. Greece gave us geometry, philosophy, political science, democracy, physics, biology, etc. although these are not properly "inventions", but rather "knowledge" or academic disciplines.

Don't forget the Romans, who invented the arch (extremely important to build high bridges, or high buildings like the Colloseum). In fcat, the Greek invented the arch, but it was refined and mostly used by the Romans. Some sources also mention that the Greeks invented the first flush toilets, floor heating or running water canalisations. Otherwise there were quite a few ancient inventions from the Middle/Near East (see list of inventions)

Modern times, USA, Japan, Korea (look at those mobiles, wooot)

Well, the Netherlands got more inventions, and more important ones than Japan in the list, and Japan is 10x bigger and 10x more populous. From about 1600 to 1867, the Japanese got their knowledge of science, medicine, etc. from the Dutch.
 
bossel said:
Interesting that Mercedes S-class in Germany is 2nd most reliable, while in the US it's most unreliable. Admittedly I don't drive very much, but I have never seen a broken down Mercedes.
Yes it is. Very interesting list. And quite contradictory to the US. I'm still curious as to why. It's also interesting that the Mercedes S-class, although the most "unreliable" in it's class here, is the 2nd most satisfying car also! Quite a contradiction.

I'm also curious as to the differences in claimed reliability. I'll have to check and see if the S-class is manufactured here at Mercedes' new factory in Alabama.

Thanks! :wave:
 
Pachipro said:
Yes it is. Very interesting list. And quite contradictory to the US. I'm still curious as to why.

Different reviewers. Or because someone paid one group of reviewers to have their cars get a better ranking ?

I'm also curious as to the differences in claimed reliability. I'll have to check and see if the S-class is manufactured here at Mercedes' new factory in Alabama.

Maybe that's just that. Different factories may explain an actual difference of reliability for the same car.
 
Americans invented 1337. Pwnage. The greatest linguist weapon in wartime -- backslash x forward slash zero zero t.
 
Maciamo said:
China didn't invent so much, even in ancient times. Greece gave us geometry, philosophy, political science, democracy, physics, biology, etc. although these are not properly "inventions", but rather "knowledge" or academic disciplines.

Don't forget the Romans, who invented the arch (extremely important to build high bridges, or high buildings like the Colloseum). In fcat, the Greek invented the arch, but it was refined and mostly used by the Romans. Some sources also mention that the Greeks invented the first flush toilets, floor heating or running water canalisations. Otherwise there were quite a few ancient inventions from the Middle/Near East (see list of inventions)



Well, the Netherlands got more inventions, and more important ones than Japan in the list, and Japan is 10x bigger and 10x more populous. From about 1600 to 1867, the Japanese got their knowledge of science, medicine, etc. from the Dutch.



Yeah, the Dutch got their knowledge from other countries. I think that a lot of things were invented in China, but they didn't cross the border.
A lot of things were taken from the Greeks and Romans by the countries surrounding them. So I think Greeks and Romans contributed a lot. Without their influence a lot of countries in Europe would still be very ehm, barbaric.
Oh, and if you study some things about China, you will know that they were active in those disciplines, like mathematics, biology and such.
 
A lot of geometry, philosophy, political science, physics, biology and medicine have origens in several diffent societies at several diffent times. Some of these "discoveries" have a direct connection and unbroken thread to modern counterparts. Other civilizations have had their discoveries entirely forgotten.
 
True.

Anyway, I think the most prestigious european brands are often French, Italian, British and German. But I don't think they should be referred to as european brands. Because other countries in Europe have no **** to do with the status of those brands.
I wouldn't like to see other people lifting on my countries succes. French is French, Italian is Italian. Most of the loser countries want to see it like european brands, so they can have the idea they got some good too.
 
Meiki said:
Anyway, I think the most prestigious european brands are often French, Italian, British and German. But I don't think they should be referred to as european brands. Because other countries in Europe have no **** to do with the status of those brands.
I wouldn't like to see other people lifting on my countries succes. French is French, Italian is Italian. Most of the loser countries want to see it like european brands, so they can have the idea they got some good too.

I disagree. Nowadays most major European companies employ Europeans from various countries, and have branches in several countries. For example, Philips, which is Dutch, employs many Germans and Belgians too, and has branches and research labs in these countries. It's very easy with the EU to recruit other Europeans, as they don't need a visa and the qualifications have been quite harmonised between EU countries (at least EU-15). True that Eastern European countries have been less part of the game so far. We should maybe talk about Western Europe or EU-15 according to the situation.

Some prestigious "brands/makes" or companies or projects/inventions involve more than 1 country. The Eurostar & Eurotunnel are Franco-Belgo-British, the Thalys involves France, Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany. The concorde airplane was a Franco-British project, and the most famous European plane company, Airbus, is a consortium of companies in several European countries (France, Germany, UK, Spain...).

If you are looking at older inventions, country names really do not matter, as the borders were completely different, say 500 or 1000 years ago as now. You should know that as the Netherlands were respectively part of the Roman Empire (well the Sout at least), then Charlemagne's Empire, then part of the Holy Roman Empire, then became Burgundian, then Austro-Spanish, Spanish, then Dutch, then French, then Dutch-Belgian, then Dutch. The Netherlands also shared a common king & queen with the UK (William III of England).
 
I was wondering, there's been some scientific debate about who invented the clock. The mechanical clock, because from I've read, the Arabs relied on the sundail and because of their knowlegde of astronomy. And the Chinese had knowlegde of mechanical clocks. So, in 999-1003 A.D. a man named Gerbert--who later on became Pope Sylvester II supposidly built the first mechanical clock in the West. How true is this? :?
 
Pachipro said:
In reality, the Japanese really didn't invent anything including their own written language! (save for hiragana and katagana) But, most of your better products on the market today have Japanese brand names. Go figure.

Some information about patent applications (these figures are from 1996:
laser technology:
USA: 365
Germany: 381
Japan: 3.481

communication technology:
Germany: 2.787
USA: 6.379
Japan: 33.391

cars related:
USA: 3.081
Germany: 6.123
Japan: 20.463

computer science and storage technology:
USA: 7.233
Germany: 1.725
Japan: 36.020

And so on ...

Many informations on Japan are based on biases, I suppose. It's the same in Germany. Most people here claim the Japanese can't invent things but only copy them. They can't explain how you can be the market leader by copying, but they claim it nevertheless. - Go figure.
 
Matsubara_san-fan said:
Many informations on Japan are based on biases, I suppose. It's the same in Germany. Most people here claim the Japanese can't invent things but only copy them. They can't explain how you can be the market leader by copying, but they claim it nevertheless. - Go figure.
I cannot dispute that the Japanese have more patents, but are the products patented original, something the world has never seen before? Or are they original products invented by someone else and then back engineered and built in a different way so as not to infringe on the originals' patent?
I ask this as I have direct experience with the Japanese back engineering products and then manufacturing a wholly new product with a new patent. Please refer to my post here to get at what I am talking about.

BTW welcome to the forums :wave:
 
Matsubara_san-fan said:
Many informations on Japan are based on biases, I suppose. It's the same in Germany. Most people here claim the Japanese can't invent things but only copy them. They can't explain how you can be the market leader by copying, but they claim it nevertheless. - Go figure.
Well, you can be a market leader without inventing very much on your own, look at China. For Japan, I doubt that the informed public in Germany actually has the bias you see, since the patent numbers are always reported in the news. There is a certain stereotype, but most people probably wouldn't say that Japan only copies (or maybe that's just the people I talk to, who knows).

For the actual numbers of patents, I found a very informative website by the EPO.

BTW, if you only look at patents granted in Europe, you see that the US has leadership, Germany is 2nd, while Japan is 3rd. It all depends...
 
Pachipro said:
I cannot dispute that the Japanese have more patents, but are the products patented original, something the world has never seen before? Or are they original products invented by someone else and then back engineered and built in a different way so as not to infringe on the originals' patent?

Well, everything depends on how you define it, doesn't it?

The light bulb was not something really new - we all knew the torch before. So it was just back engineered. And it was even a step backward, because you could not carry it with you.
And the internet? It is nothing new at all. It is "the internet formerly known as parcel post".
And so on ... ;)

I don't care who is first, second, third. But I think the general statement about the Japanese unable to invent anything is, huh, a little bit ... false. It would be a very interesting discussion why Americans/Europeans claim that so often. Very interesting, but a different topic/thread.

Thanks for welcoming :wave:


TO: bossel
Thanks for the link. A useful one for me.
 
Matsubara_san-fan said:
The light bulb was not something really new - we all knew the torch before. So it was just back engineered. And it was even a step backward, because you could not carry it with you.
Granted, both items do light ones way, but the light bulb was something new in that it used a new form of energy. Instead of fire it used electricity. It really was not a step backward in that batteries were invented that allowed you to carry the "electric torch" with you.

How could the torch be back engineered into an electric light bulb anyway? Did someone say, "Here is a torch. Take it apart, find out how it works, do not infringe on the makers patents, make it smaller and less dangerous. Oh, by the way, do not use fire. Invent something else."

And the internet? It is nothing new at all. It is "the internet formerly known as parcel post".
Parcel post refers to packages, not messages. Parcel post would be what UPS (United Parcel Service) or Fed Ex, or Kuro neko Yamato bin, does. They deliver packages (parcels).

The internet is something new in that I can communicate with someone thousands of miles away in a matter of seconds. I can do enormous amounts of research in minutes without leaving my home, in my underwear, if I prefer. In the past I would have to get up, get dressed, go to a library, read many books, do much copying or writing, and take it home. That is if I did find all the books and such I needed. Back then my search was very narrowed to a few local libraries which may, or may not, have had the books I was looking for. I can do shopping, listen to music or sports. Download movies or music. Send letters. All in a matter of minutes. Something unheard of before.

However, as of late I cannot send or receive parcels via the internet.
 

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