Pro-EU or Anti-EU

[Mycernius]

With the current thread on the EU constitution and the arguments for the Yes and No, I have been wondering what are the other European forums opinions on the EU in general. There are 7 choices and I think it should be enough.

1. Very Pro-EU - I agree that the EU should expand. More power to Brussels and a larger more united Europe is the best way ahead. The quicker the better
2. Mildly Pro-EU - I agree that the EU should expand, but at a slower rate. The power in Brussels should only be there for more serious European issues.
3. Slightly Pro-EU - I agree that the EU should expand, but only when countries can show they have an advanced enough economy and stable enough. It is something that will happen, but it should evolve, not forced. Brussels should have virtually no say in how countries in the EU run themselves and should consider only things that effect all EU members.
4. Neither Pro or Anti - Speaks for itself really
5. Slightly Anti-EU - The EU is good enough at the size it is. The EU has done some good things, but Brussels interfers sometimes where it is not needed.
6. Mildly Anti-EU - The EU should have stayed for what it was when it was the Common Market or EEC. Purely there for easy trade within Europe. There is to much power in Brussels and some of it should be given back to the member countries.
7. Very Anti-EU - It has caused nothing but problems. Brussel should not have the power it does. It is threatening each countries sovereignty and countries would be much better out of the EU than in it.

There is some flexibilty in each choice, and I have tried to make then as wide as possible for each one. just choose the one that best suits your view.

[Duo]

Wellllllll, i vote the first option, i guess is no secret, you have probaply been all tired and sick of my pro-EU rants and argumetns but what can I say,,, i beleive in strong unified Europe, the quiker the better :)

[Miss_apollo7]

I am the second person in this poll to vote: Very PRO-EU....

I am very much in favor of a united Europe under the EU-flag..... (holding the flag with Duo)...

[Mycernius]

Duo, your response didn't surprise me in the slighest. I should have put Very, very, definetely Pro EU just for you.

[Duo]

I am the second person in this poll to vote: Very PRO-EU....

I am very much in favor of a united Europe under the EU-flag..... (holding the flag with Duo)...

Amen to thaaat

[bossel]

Mildly pro.

Don't really care that much, but I have an aversion to nationalism. & I like freedom to travel, live & work where I want (although I don't use that freedom very much).

[thomas]

Slightly pro, although harbouring a lot of understanding for the euroscepticism we recently witnessed in F and the NL. I strongly dislike the EU technocracy and fat political oligarchy that unflinchingly marches forward under the flag of neoliberalism and capitalism as well as the unsettling drift towards overregulation, but hey, perhaps I got it all wrong here in Japan (see my sig).

[Maciamo]

I am very pro-EU in theory, although I think it shouldn't expand too fast (as it has been doing recently) and try to be less bureacratic than now.

[Chris Weimer]

Very mixed feelings on this issue. The European Union will expand, whether we want it to or not, but it's going to have some problems. One problem is European disputes, which fortunately have been very mild to non-existant here recently, except the Greece-Turkey-Cyprus dilemma. Another problem is Turkey and the European culture versus the Middle Eastern cultures. Per the violence that has been displayed recently, I can foresee nothing but bad coming out of that (v. Theo van Gogh et al.). Yet another problem will be how to handle wars, such as if Russian decides to attack Poland, for valid reasons of course, will EU back the valid Russia or the confederate Poland? Yet another problem (last one here) is the Christian fanatical capitalists who have been popping up in unexpected places lately (Germany comes to mind), which is against the foundation of the EU as a liberal and secular socialist confederacy (er, union...).

I did not vote.

[Pararousia]

Although it sounds like a great idea in theory, ultimately it is a step toward a one-world government and that can't be good, IMHO.

[bossel]

(v. Theo van Gogh et al.).

You had political assassinations in Western cultures before.

such as if Russian decides to attack Poland, for valid reasons of course

Valid reasons to go to war? What could Poland do?

the Christian fanatical capitalists who have been popping up in unexpected places lately (Germany comes to mind)

Christian fanatical capitalists?

which is against the foundation of the EU as a liberal and secular socialist confederacy (er, union...).

Liberal & socialist? Can't see them working together. Which socialist EU do you foresee? A soviet model?

[Duo]

Although it sounds like a great idea in theory, ultimately it is a step toward a one-world government and that can't be good, IMHO.

That's a false premesis, the most that the EU can become in my view is something like the US, and that's highly unlikely, at least for the current time and the recent future.

[Chris Weimer]

You had political assassinations in Western cultures before.

And religious ones too (which was what T. van Gogh's murder was about - not political) yet there exists a mentality in Turkey that such religious fervor is a virtue, while most Western people see it as a vice.

Valid reasons to go to war? What could Poland do?

New word for you today: hypothetical

Christian fanatical capitalists?

I was under the impression that Angela Murkel was very Christian and very capitalistic (almost American ;)).

Liberal & socialist? Can't see them working together. Which socialist EU do you foresee? A soviet model?

Hrm, can you explain this a tad better? What do you mean?

[bossel]

there exists a mentality in Turkey that such religious fervor is a virtue, while most Western people see it as a vice.

In Turkey? Turkey would be one of the last examples I'd choose for that.

New word for you today: hypothetical

Perhaps a new expression for you: modals of possibility (could is one).

I was under the impression that Angela Murkel was very Christian and very capitalistic (almost American ;)).

Which shows that you don't know too much about German politics. The CDU (Merkel's party) is only slightly more capitalistic than the SPD, surely not fanatical. Merkel & her party also aren't fanatically Christian, they even have a lot of Turkish members & voters (although they lost quite a number due to their negative stance on Turkey's EU membership).

Hrm, can you explain this a tad better? What do you mean?

Liberals are quite the opposite of socialists (unless you adhere to the strange US definition of liberal).
The EU is not much more socialist than the US (a bit, but not much), hence I thought, you had some future socialist EU in mind.

[Mycernius]

You know I posted the question, but haven't posted my opinion. Oh well, here goes. I am slighlty Pro-EU. I feel that with the modern world being what it is that countries will come together. Europe seem a good place for this to start as most European countries are stable both politically and economically. The only problem I find is that the EU parliment wish to rush it forward to quickly and except countries that are clearly not ready to join. I think it should slow down and let the current members settle down and then accept some more when the time is right. You never know, in the future it might spread beyond Europe. After all Turkey and Russian also share territory in Asia. If they join the EU would other Asian countries try to join?

[Chris Weimer]

In Turkey? Turkey would be one of the last examples I'd choose for that.

Well, perhaps if you look at Istanbul, but anywhere east of that and the whole population is full of them.

Which shows that you don't know too much about German politics. The CDU (Merkel's party) is only slightly more capitalistic than the SPD, surely not fanatical. Merkel & her party also aren't fanatically Christian, they even have a lot of Turkish members & voters (although they lost quite a number due to their negative stance on Turkey's EU membership).

I didn't say her party was fanatical, just heard that she was a very hard-hearted Christian.

Liberals are quite the opposite of socialists (unless you adhere to the strange US definition of liberal).

Sure, living in America a liberal does equate with socialism. You see, a conservative is one that wants to conserve capitalism and Christianity, while liberals want to change things. In America, Christian capitalism is the norm so conservatives want that conserved.

Of course, if you can't think outside your box, you'll never understand that.

The EU is not much more socialist than the US (a bit, but not much), hence I thought, you had some future socialist EU in mind.

The "EU" isn't a country yet either, but France, Britain, Norway, Germany etc... are all more socialist than the US is. We don't even have public medical care.

[bossel]

Well, perhaps if you look at Istanbul, but anywhere east of that and the whole population is full of them.

Still, Turkey is one of the most secular countries in the Muslim world. There are several countries which have much more of a problem with religious fervor.

I didn't say her party was fanatical, just heard that she was a very hard-hearted Christian.

You mentioned "Christian fanatical capitalists." When I asked about it, you gave Merkel as an example. She (& her party) is a far cry from being fundamentalist (or fanatically) Christian.

Sure, living in America a liberal does equate with socialism. You see, a conservative is one that wants to conserve capitalism and Christianity, while liberals want to change things.

What a nice & simple point of view.

Of course, if you can't think outside your box, you'll never understand that.

Which box?

The "EU" isn't a country yet either, but France, Britain, Norway, Germany etc... are all more socialist than the US is. We don't even have public medical care.

Socialism stands or falls with compulsory health insurance? Beyond that there is not much that makes European countries so much more socialist than the US (BTW, the USA has a similar system at least for the elderly: Medicare, 40m US citizens enrolled). The US protects the national industries just as the EU does (though the ways how they do it may differ a bit).

[GP850mAh]

[QUOTE=Mycernius;212047]
4. Neither Pro or Anti - Speaks for itself reallyQUOTE]

I'll have to say this one, I'm neither pro nor against the EU and I don't know what I would vote if there were a referendum today.

[sparkey]

I'll have to say this one, I'm neither pro nor against the EU and I don't know what I would vote if there were a referendum today.

It seems to me, from afar, that Norway has been fine without being in the EU. Certainly, the EU would benefit to have another stable country like Norway in its midst. But would Norway have a net benefit? It seems that they get most of their benefit from just being in the EEA.

[Mzungu mchagga]

Expansion of the EU and giving more power to Brussels, as mentioned at the beginning, are two completely different issues!

I could reject further admission of other countries and still be in favor of more unity within, or vice versa. So this poll doesn't make much sense!

[edao]

We are in a position now where Germany are basically proposing that other euro zone countries get a say in each others fiscal policy.

Or in other words Germany gets to hold the euro zone purse strings.

People are talking about the bail-outs as a disaster but they are loans and people make money from loans.

Germany has only strengthened it grip over western europe with the crisis, i think its federalisation via the back door.

[GP850mAh]

It seems to me, from afar, that Norway has been fine without being in the EU. Certainly, the EU would benefit to have another stable country like Norway in its midst. But would Norway have a net benefit? It seems that they get most of their benefit from just being in the EEA.

We are doing pretty fine now which can to a huge degree be credited to our oil export which has made us a very rich country and thus giving us a lot of money to invest in infrastructure, education, research to create economic growth and ensure everyone a high standard of living.

The EU is our biggest trade partner where about 80% of our exports goes and a EU-membership is a give and take thing, we would have to give alot, but in the long run I think we would benefit from it economicly even though we would have to cash up big time right now.

We would have to give up alot of sovereignty as a EU-member though like giving up our currency and adopt the €uro. Adopting the euro would most likely benefit our export industry that has to pay fees to exchange to th euro now. It would also mean lower inflation and lower prices on alot of goods like food which means we could cut wages and thus make our export industry more competative.But it would also mean the end of the norwegian krone and a loss of our most important tool to controll our inflation, interest rate and employment politics.

So to summon up: would Norway have a net benefit? Economicly I think so. Would it benefit our sovereignty? Not at all and this is why I'm undecided whether Norway should join the EU or not.

[Rastko Pocesta]

I agree with everything in "Very pro-EU", but I am either slightly or mildly because I think EU's policies towards workers are shameful. I am proponent of democratic socialism and I want to see a truly free Europe without any oppressive ideologies - authoritarian "communism", fascism, capitalism. Capitalism dehumanizes and treats a human being only as a source of profit, without any honour and dignity.

[Nordsee]

6. Mildly Anti-EU

[zanipolo]

I agree with everything in "Very pro-EU", but I am either slightly or mildly because I think EU's policies towards workers are shameful. I am proponent of democratic socialism and I want to see a truly free Europe without any oppressive ideologies - authoritarian "communism", fascism, capitalism. Capitalism dehumanizes and treats a human being only as a source of profit, without any honour and dignity.

i am 100% anti-Eu IF you retain nations in the EU.

If you want to have nations in the EU , then do not have euro money ...all MUST have there own currency.
Any other system which has nations does not work, as was stated in the 1990s by economists.