Bombs In London? Hope All Our English Members Are Ok !

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Blasts occurred:
  • Between Aldgate East and Liverpool Street tube stations
  • Between Russell Square and King's Cross tube stations
  • At Edgware Road tube station
  • On bus at Tavistock Square


Blast timeline
  • 0851 Seven people die in a blast on a train 100 yards from Liverpool Street station
  • 0856 21 people die in a blast on a train between Russell Square and King's Cross stations
  • 0917 Seven people die in blast on a train at Edgware Road station
  • 0947 Two people die in a blast on a number 30 bus at Tavistock Place


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You know, it's ironic that everytime something like this happens we have the leader of the nation come up and reassure us that our way of life and lifestyle won't change despite the efforts of those behind the attacks, but truth be told the aspects of our daily life change, and a times radically. Look at the US now for example, the creation of the Dept. for Homeland Security and the Patriot acts. I mean now the rights of the US citizens are less and this causes a direct impact on the lifestyle on the average American citizen. Also after the London events here in Brussels security was stepped up a bit and in Paris it army and police rolled into the streets and train stations and other such public places. Controls of passengers and luggage increased and fear and anxiety as well. It's good to hear reasuring words but I mean when one looks around reality is different. Sadly, these people seem to be getting to us little by little. I just wonder how much more it will take until goverments in the west begin to take drastic measures, like new id cards and things like that or who knows....sometimes i have the feeling that orient and west are in a collision road, I just wonder how much longer the west will restrain itself if things keep going on in this way :souka:
 
Duo said:
You know, it's ironic that everytime something like this happens we have the leader of the nation come up and reassure us that our way of life and lifestyle won't change despite the efforts of those behind the attacks, but truth be told the aspects of our daily life change, and a times radically. Look at the US now for example, the creation of the Dept. for Homeland Security and the Patriot acts. I mean now the rights of the US citizens are less and this causes a direct impact on the lifestyle on the average American citizen. Also after the London events here in Brussels security was stepped up a bit and in Paris it army and police rolled into the streets and train stations and other such public places. Controls of passengers and luggage increased and fear and anxiety as well.

I totally agree. Even in Tokyo security was tighten after 9/11. For example they introduce hand bags x-ray scan and visitor registration in most skyscrapers. And it's still there 4 years later. When I left London airport last month, a security woman picked up my wife in the passport queue and asked her to pass through a body scanner. There were hundreds of people around, of all races and ages, but they decided to choose a cute and innocent-looking Japanese girl on holiday. In fact she even cried after as she was wondering what happened to her and why they singled her out.

That's not really the way they'll find terrorists, and indeed had they done their job better at the same month, the terrorists would not have been able to plan and execute their attack.

It's good to hear reasuring words but I mean when one looks around reality is different. Sadly, these people seem to be getting to us little by little. I just wonder how much more it will take until goverments in the west begin to take drastic measures, like new id cards and things like that or who knows...

Sometimes I wonder if these attacks are not organised by our dear leaders themselves. In the US it is clear that 9/11 helped Bush stay president when his victory at the elections was being investigated for cheating. Then it helped him become Commander in Chief (quite a lot of power) and attack Iraq (his ultimate goal, to continue his father's work). It again helped him get re-elected, helped him pass the Patriot Act to increase the government's power and reduce citizens' rights. Whatever angle you look at it, 9/11 was good for Bush and his pals. More power, stay longer in power. And who knows what will happen next ? A dictature ?

I am amazed to see that Bush's political friends, be it Blair, Berlusconi or Koizumi, have stayed in power all the time since Bush was first elected. This is especially surprising for Japan and Italy, where Prime Ministers change almost as quickly as the seasons (sometimes faster). The last Japanese PM to stay in office for more than 2 years was Eisaku Sato from 1964 to 1972. Sato's case is also dubbious as his brother of Nobusuke Kishi, a convicted class-A war criminal later forgiven by the US to fight the communists, had been PM from 1957 to 1960.

The US have a lot of influence on Japanese politics (partly because Japan is bound to them through the US Army). It wouldn't surprise me if the PM who stay long enough receive some kind of support from the US government, while others step down rapidly. Koizumi was elected just a few month after Bush became president. Oh, what a coincidence ! More of a coincidence, Berlusconi was elected the same month. And yet one more coincidence, both of them are still there after 4 years, which is extremely unusual in their country's politics. As for Blair, it is a surpise too that he remained for so long, especially after 2 million people marched in London to protest against his support of the US-led invasion of Iraq. In Japan, any PM would have resigned had 10x less people protested publicly (but even less did).

So what ? Well, what if these guys' plan was really just to scare us, increase security, introduce ID cards (now discussing in the UK) or fingerprint checks (already implemented at US immigration), reduce our rights (Patriot Act), and convince us to go to war with some poor countries to fight the terrorists who may not live there or originate from there.

What if it was just a trick to change our way of life, and stay in office longer with increased political power ?
 
Maciamo said:
Sometimes I wonder if these attacks are not organised by our dear leaders themselves. In the US it is clear that 9/11 helped Bush stay president when his victory at the elections was being investigated for cheating. Then it helped him become Commander in Chief (quite a lot of power) and attack Iraq (his ultimate goal, to continue his father's work). It again helped him get re-elected, helped him pass the Patriot Act to increase the government's power and reduce citizens' rights. Whatever angle you look at it, 9/11 was good for Bush and his pals. More power, stay longer in power. And who knows what will happen next ? A dictature ?

I am amazed to see that Bush's political friends, be it Blair, Berlusconi or Koizumi, have stayed in power all the time since Bush was first elected. This is especially surprising for Japan and Italy, where Prime Ministers change almost as quickly as the seasons (sometimes faster). The last Japanese PM to stay in office for more than 2 years was Eisaku Sato from 1964 to 1972. Sato's case is also dubbious as his brother of Nobusuke Kishi, a convicted class-A war criminal later forgiven by the US to fight the communists, had been PM from 1957 to 1960.

The US have a lot of influence on Japanese politics (partly because Japan is bound to them through the US Army). It wouldn't surprise me if the PM who stay long enough receive some kind of support from the US government, while others step down rapidly. Koizumi was elected just a few month after Bush became president. Oh, what a coincidence ! More of a coincidence, Berlusconi was elected the same month. And yet one more coincidence, both of them are still there after 4 years, which is extremely unusual in their country's politics. As for Blair, it is a surpise too that he remained for so long, especially after 2 million people marched in London to protest against his support of the US-led invasion of Iraq. In Japan, any PM would have resigned had 10x less people protested publicly (but even less did).

So what ? Well, what if these guys' plan was really just to scare us, increase security, introduce ID cards (now discussing in the UK) or fingerprint checks (already implemented at US immigration), reduce our rights (Patriot Act), and convince us to go to war with some poor countries to fight the terrorists who may not live there or originate from there.

What if it was just a trick to change our way of life, and stay in office longer with increased political power ?

You know, I have wondered the same thing about 9/11. Maybe not that it was the gov itself that organized it but that perhaps they knew about it and let it happen. Some say Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor as well but let it through so that the USA could enter WW2. Could 9/11 have had such a similar function, to allow the gov support for its plans on reshaping the middle east?
I mean what about all those reports warning about suspected individuals going to flight schools and what not.... why were they discarded that way ? You make very valid points about Italy.... I'm not familiar with the politics in Japan so I can't agree or not but Italian politics sure are some of the most chaotic here in Europe.

I think it is possible to manipulate a nation as u you are implying in the last paraghraph. Right now to mind only one solution comes. A strong independent bureaucracy and a strong sense of a civil society that has an independent and inqusitive mind for progress and improvement. People that can't be spolied by politics and but try to do their job in the best interest of the nation/state.
I know it sounds a bit idealistic but......

Back at the london events.......I wonder if these kind of attacks will only be limited to European contries who gave their explicit support to the US or will it spill over into other neutral or antagonistic nations such as Belgium and France ? I hope not, but if it does will the coalition against terrorism tighten and become more agressive especially in this new pre-emtive doctrine. Will european countries be drawn into this war on terror like to a full extent as the US has, and by that I mean the direct implementation of military power and resources into conflicts abroad to prevent future attacks whatever they maybe conceived as?
 
You both make good arguments, but I don't tend to believe that it is a government conspiracy to keep power.
 
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I just want to echo Frank's concern; I hope all of our members are safe.I found out about this last night just as I was going to bed, it was awful. My heart goes out to the victims. I hope these kinds of attacks will stop someday.
 
I don't want to be cynical, but the likelihood of a JREF member being harmed by the bombs in London is extremely low. London is a city of 12 million people (+ tourists and othe people passing throughbut not living there, so probably over 15 million). 37 people died so far, which means 0.00005% of the resident population (less if we count non-residents). There were 700 people injured, or 0.005% of the population.

Considering that only 59 JREF members have chosen England as their country of residence, and 49 have chosen London as their city of residence, the chances that they are among the casualties are another 250,000x lower (as they only make up 1/250000 of London's population).

This gives us 0.00000002% of chance (in other words, one chance out of 5 billion) of them even having an injury. For death, there is only one chance out of 500 billion. I am not even considering in which part of London they live and whether they usually commute to work by bus/underground at the same time using these lines. That means that there is a higher chance that some JREF members anywhere in the world be in a car accident or fall down the stairs at the same moment than be injured or killed in that terrorist attack.

That doesn't mean I do not feel sorry for the victims.
 
Don't worry, you're not being cynical.

(Just realistic.)

Still, emotions are irrational, and I get emotional sometimes.
This kind of violence really gets to me.



:sorry:
 
mad pierrot said:
(Just realistic.)

Still, emotions are irrational, and I get emotional sometimes.
This kind of violence really gets to me.



:sorry:
Yeah, I am also very sensitive to violence but somehow I don't have a special attachment to Jref members I've never met as opposed to any other innocent victim. And not only in London of course, since bombings and terror like this happen with clockwork regularity....somewhere in the world nearly every day. :(
 
Maciamo said:
Sometimes I wonder if these attacks are not organised by our dear leaders themselves. In the US it is clear that 9/11 helped Bush stay president when his victory at the elections was being investigated for cheating. Then it helped him become Commander in Chief (quite a lot of power) and attack Iraq (his ultimate goal, to continue his father's work). It again helped him get re-elected, helped him pass the Patriot Act to increase the government's power and reduce citizens' rights. Whatever angle you look at it, 9/11 was good for Bush and his pals. More power, stay longer in power. And who knows what will happen next ? A dictature ?
Duo said:
You know, I have wondered the same thing about 9/11. Maybe not that it was the gov itself that organized it but that perhaps they knew about it and let it happen. Some say Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor as well but let it through so that the USA could enter WW2. Could 9/11 have had such a similar function, to allow the gov support for its plans on reshaping the middle east?
I mean what about all those reports warning about suspected individuals going to flight schools and what not.... why were they discarded that way ? You make very valid points about Italy.... I'm not familiar with the politics in Japan so I can't agree or not but Italian politics sure are some of the most chaotic here in Europe.
I don't have the time now, but I'll post more on this at a later date. For now, does anyone remember the AP reporting and CNN and Fox news saying that the Isralie PM Netanyahoo(sp) was warned BEFORE the first explosion took place to stay in his hotel room and not venture outside? I heard it on the news reports and noticed it on the scrolls at the bottom of the scrren of these networks. Just something very curious that I took notice of right away.
 
And not only in London of course, since bombings and terror like this happen with clockwork regularity....somewhere in the world nearly every day.

Sucks, don't it?
 

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