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Thread: Marriage

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    Marriage



    I had a long, quite in depth discussion with a friend today regarding marriage. She was a firm believer in the institution of marriage and what it stands for. She believed that if you are going to spend the rest of your life with someone then you should get married. I disagreed with her.
    I'm not a firm believer in marriage. My opinion is that if you love each-other and you are devoted to one another then why get married. I said that if we love each other and are commited and faithful then we don't need to get married to prove that to anyone, because in our relationship there are two people - myself and my lovely lady, smokette.
    She (my friend) believed it was the ultimate example of commitment...but what about people who marry and get divorced? And marriage certainly doesn't guarantee monogamy. A large percentage of failed marriages are the result of unfaithfulness. So is marriage really a sign of ultimate commitment?
    It'll be interesting to hear the opinions of people who were in a long term relationship and then got married to that partner, and if marriage made a differance.
    She also believed that marriage was important because if you have children out of wedlock they would be 'illegitimate'. Which i think is absolutely ridiculous. To me, these are ancient views...but i respect them, even if i completely disagree with them.

    What are everyone's thoughts on marriage?

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    I personally don't see anything wrong with marriage. But all I see are negative aspects of it. For instance, I knew this one married couple and the wife would always point out the mistakes her husband made, and I see this alot with married couples. It seems like alot of married couples aren't intimate with each other. I pointed out before that these days marriage seems like a battle the couples have to get through to see how much their marriage can take. So, it seems people spend more time fighting for their marriage instead of actually being married. The cheating issue for example, you don't have to get a divorce when your partner cheats on you, you can make the choice to forgive your partner and get through the hurt of being cheated on. Then there's other issues and you have to try get through. That's my view on marriage. However, I would rather have children with someone I am married to, I don't know why, but that's just me.

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    I believe in marriage - I should do, I have been married for 8.5 years. I think ideally people should get married before having children. Having children is a huge commitment, and I think two people should show total commitment to each other before they think about having children. That's not to say that unmarried people make bad parents, I'm just saying 'ideally'. The way I see it, if you intend to spend your lives together, why not get married? It is a public announcement that you are making a commitment to each other, and it is a day for yourselves and your family and friends to celebrate the fact that you have found each other.

    I think the fact that so many marriages fail is a different issue. People, even if they get married, don't commit to each other fully, and don't compromise enough. If you are married you have to put the marriage first and yourself second, and that can be very fulfilling.

    Marriage is great!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by smoke
    My opinion is that if you love each-other and you are devoted to one another then why get married. I said that if we love each other and are commited and faithful then we don't need to get married to prove that to anyone, because in our relationship there are two people - myself and my lovely lady, smokette.
    You mean she doesn't see straight through that line of hogwash?

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    well yeah if people are devoted for each other, why get married?

    i got married because i love the traditional thing of being married, and for the paper work * this is because i am dutch and my wife Japanese, if my wife would be from the same country i am living in i wouldnt care much about it*.

    what is marriage? for a lot of people it has differnt meanings.. well this is the definition of marriage from Wikimedia * my second bibble after google*
    Definitions

    Precise definitions vary historically and between and within cultures, but marriage has been an important concept as a socially sanctioned bond in a sexual relationship. Marriage is usually conceived as a male-female relationship designed to produce children and successfully socialize them. Historically, most societies have sanctioned polygamy. The West is a major exception. Europe and the United States were monogamous cultures. This was in part a Germanic cultural tradition, a requirement of Christianity, and a mandate of Roman Law. However, Roman Law supported prostitution, concubinage, sex outside of marriage, homosexual sex, and sexual access to slaves. The Christian West formally banned these practices. Globally, most existing societies do not sanction polygamy as a form of marriage. For example, China shifted from allowing polygamy to supporting only monogamy in the 1953 Marriage act after the Communist revolution. Most African and Islamic societies continue to allow polygamy (around 2.0 billion people). This includes India where polygamy is permitted for Muslim citizens. Probably, less than 3% of all Muslim marriages are polygamous. It is increasingly expensive in an Urban setting, but more useful in rural areas where children are a future source of agricultural labor. Most of the world's population live in societies where polygamy is less common and they are overwhelmingly monogamous. Since the latter decades of the 20th century many of society's assumptions about the nature and purpose of marriage and family have been challenged, in particular by gay rights advocacy groups, who disagree with the notion that marriage should be exclusively heterosexual. Some people also argue that marriage may be an unnecessary legal fiction. This is part of the general disruption of "traditional" families in the West. Since WWII the West has seen a dramatic increase in divorce (6% to over 40% of first marriages), cohabitation without marriage, a growing unmarried population, and children born outside of marriage (5% to over 33% of births), as well as an increase in adultery (8% to over 40%). A system of somewhat serial monogamy has de facto emerged. Still, legally sanctioned non-monogamous marriage arrangements are extremely rare.

    In modern times, the term marriage is generally reserved for a state sanctioned union. The phrase legally married can be used to emphasize this point. In the United States there are two methods of receiving state sanction of a marriage: common law marriage and obtaining a marriage license. The vast majority of US states do recognize common law marriage. Many localities do support various types of domestic partnerships.

    Since the 12th century, marriage or holy matrimony has been a sacrament in the Catholic Church, as well as other Orthodoxies, where it is defined as a relationship between a man and a woman. The Protestant Reformation reformulated marriage as a life-long covenant. Currently same-sex marriage is legal in some countries and states such as Belgium, the Netherlands, Spain, Canada, and the US state of Massachusetts). This is a natural evolution from the idea of domestic partnerships. Marriage of some kind is found in most societies, and typically married people form a nuclear household, which is often subsequently extended biologically, through children. In the West the nuclear family emerged after 1100. Most non-Western societies have a broader definition of family that includes an extended family network. Alternatively, people may choose to be "childfree". Finally, they may be childless due to infertility, and possibly seek treatment or consider adoption. The term wedlock is a synonym for marriage, and is mainly used in the phrase "out of wedlock" to describe a child born of parents who were not married (see illegitimacy).

    In the West marriage has evolved from a life-time covenant that can only be broken by fault or death to a contract that be broken by either party at will. Other shifts in Western marriage since WWI include: (a) Unlike the 19th century women not men get child custody over 80% of the time, (b) both spouses have a formal duty of spousal support (no longer just the husband), (c) Women can vote (i.e., coverture no longer applies),(d) Out-of-Wedlock children have the same rights of support as legitimate children, (e) in most states rape can legally occur within marriage and be punished, (f) husbands may no longer physically discipline/abuse their wife, and (g) property acquired since marriage is not owned by the Title-holder. This property is considered marital and to be divided among the spouses by community property law or equitable distribution via the courts. There is a growing debate about the form(s) that marriage should take. Two of the most hotly-debated variants are discussed below: same-sex marriage and polygamy.

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    i think marriage lets your lover know you want to be with them forever. it is a commitment that you both make together to show that you really love them. without this commitment you are showing that it is ok for your relationship to end at anytime, not only to yourself but to your lover your family and even your children if you have them. ofcourse people can be happy without marriage and ofcourse, people can work without a decent education too

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    marriage makes more the relation more secure yah

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    There Are......

    many legal things involved with having children, owning a home, retiring that a marriage certificate affects in important ways. A piece of paper means the difference between girlfriend & wife and a woman better know the difference before she settles for the life of a "girlfriend". The word "commitment" means paperwork to me, not a verbal agreement. Just my thoughts?

    Frank


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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank D. White
    many legal things involved with having children, owning a home, retiring that a marriage certificate affects in important ways. A piece of paper means the difference between girlfriend & wife and a woman better know the difference before she settles for the life of a "girlfriend". The word "commitment" means paperwork to me, not a verbal agreement. Just my thoughts?

    Frank

    i agree with you on this one Frank.
    My brother is going through a difficult seperation to an un-married partner and children are involved. Because they aren't married his situation is all the more difficult. However i don't believe legal reasons are the right reasons to get married.

    Has marriage actually changed anyone's relationship with their partner? ignoring the legality/nationality/security issues. Did your relationship with your partner improve after you got married? (question to anyone)

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    I DO think marriage has meaning. I didn't used to think so because I didn't see many examples of good marriages growing up, but I've changed my tune as I get older (btw, I'm not married). I think one of the misconceptions couples have regarding marriage is that IT'S ALL ABOUT THEM. And although it's mainly about them, there are other things to consider. A marriage is also a joining of families. It's a way to accept the new spouse into your family and have the couple become family to each other as well. It's also a way for your friends to aknowledge your relationship. I view the relationships of my friends and family more seriously after they get married. The girlfriend of a brother is no longer just some silly fling, but someone I should learn to respect if I value my relationship with my brother. These things are important and they do make a difference. To deny these things and to fool yourself into thinking that your relationship is "all about you" is rather self-centered and unrealistic.

    And I think marriage makes (or at least should make) a difference to the people involved. Marriage should be about commitement ("I am willing to be obligated to concearn myself with your well-being."). I know it doesn't always work out that way, but that doesn't mean that that's not what it's intended to mean. Sure, a lot of people get married who probably shouldn't, and they do it for the wrong reasons, and it doesn't work out, and people take that as proof that marriage doesn't work, but I'm not going to follow the example of people who did it wrong. In a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship the commitment is temporary until made more permanent. The understanding is, "I'm with you because it suits me now." That's not to say that people who are dating don't have committed relationships or that married people do, but that's what marriage is, commitment, and that's why I think it has meaning.

    If you don't think marriage has meaning, don't get married. It's people getting married who don't believe in marriage who make marriage seem less meaningful. Marriage only has as much meaning as the people involved give it. If you take your vows seriously, your marriage has meaning.

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    Marriage is a committment whether people like it or not. It is a partnership where both people have to work together to get things done. Thinking that a marriage is all about love, sex, and your partner pleasing only you is childish, egocentric, and shows the lack of maturity that you have towards a relationship. A marriage isn't about you. It's a partnership where two people must work for each other and themselves to get things done. A proper balance in a marriage includes maturity, trust, committment, love, hard work, sex, creativity, and many more factors can keep a marriage going till the very end. A marriage is a lot of work, A LOT, but it pays off in the end if you are truly devoted to your partner.

    Marriages also need a lot of trust, more trust than you could ever think possible. Going off on a fling severely damages that trust, and can easily throw a marriage into divorce. You can't be egocentric on your needs. Just because one doesn't give enough sex or love sometimes because of personal issues (whether it's stress, work, children, etc) doesn't mean you can just go off and cheat on them. That alone shows a lack of maturity and understanding of a marriage. At the same token you need to trust and commit to each other as well. Don't automatically assume that your partner is having a fling behind your back as this result can be disasterous. Have faith in each other and work things out when it does come time for each one's personal needs and a marriage can last forever (well on this mortal coil anyway).

    I know from experience with my parents that a marriage is hardwork. I have no illusions about how much work and committment goes into a marriage. I'm an extremely realistic person when it comes to marriage. However, trust is one of the most important factors in a marriage, and is one of the top tiers in a relationship. I personally do not trust a single soul in humanity. It is because of that, that marriage will be something I will never get into. If you don't have all the keystones in place for a marriage then it will eventually not work out in the end. Well that's how I feel about it anyway.

    Doc

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    Quote Originally Posted by smoke
    I had a long, quite in depth discussion with a friend today regarding marriage. She was a firm believer in the institution of marriage and what it stands for. She believed that if you are going to spend the rest of your life with someone then you should get married. I disagreed with her.
    I'm not a firm believer in marriage. My opinion is that if you love each-other and you are devoted to one another then why get married. I said that if we love each other and are commited and faithful then we don't need to get married to prove that to anyone, because in our relationship there are two people - myself and my lovely lady, smokette.
    She (my friend) believed it was the ultimate example of commitment...but what about people who marry and get divorced? And marriage certainly doesn't guarantee monogamy. A large percentage of failed marriages are the result of unfaithfulness. So is marriage really a sign of ultimate commitment?
    It'll be interesting to hear the opinions of people who were in a long term relationship and then got married to that partner, and if marriage made a differance.
    She also believed that marriage was important because if you have children out of wedlock they would be 'illegitimate'. Which i think is absolutely ridiculous. To me, these are ancient views...but i respect them, even if i completely disagree with them.

    What are everyone's thoughts on marriage?
    Our opinions are one in the same I think. In Canada I think around 60% of people who marry divorce. And out of those who don't I'm sure that quite a few mess around on each other. So what is the point of paying the government a bunch of money, renting a church, paying for all that stuff and wearing a cheap ring if statistically you will just A: end up divorcing or B: cheating on one another? It's hypocritical really.

    My moms best friend has been living with the same guy for 20+. Here they are what's known as 'common law' husband and wife. Not officially married but since they have been partners for so long the government recognizes them as a couple. They don't see the point in getting a marriage license and all the formalities because they know they love each other and don't need a official record to prove it.

    Personally marriage is not a big deal to me. If I was in a serious relationship and it was important to her then I'd probably do it. But otherwise I'd just be happy commiting myself to her and being a common law couple.

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    I believe in marriage - have been married now for over 38 years - but ... I dunno wether the legal union makes it more solid. It does simplify a few things if you die or break up, I suppose ... but, there you go!

    I have had more divorced friends than I've had hot dinners.

    I know many folks (including a son) who have had common-law relationships for longer than I can remember.

    I think "commitment" is a personal, not a legal binding.

    ...and wives/partners .... they all "nag" you .... 'married' or not ....I know...I've seen it ... experienced it!

    Gonna go for a beer with my son....

    W

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    Married 19 years and counting. Just came from a wedding- second for both parties.

    I like the idea, and definitely for it.

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    Only been married for nearly 4 months now, and the only thing I can really say is that, from what my wife says, and what I think about; marriage is not really important, but it is a great thing to experience.

    My wife says she will go anywhere, do anything, whether I have, or not have a house, car, or money. As long as we are together forever, we are good to go. We help each other all the time, in which is very important, for a relationship. I like what Doc posted. MHO...So true.

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    I agree with Brooker. Even though I married young I had a couple of serious relationships before then. The difference then was that I was afraid to truly be myself or speak out in case I lost my boyfriend at the time. Now I am married I can speak my mind, and my husband accepts me for what I am and vice versa. If we disagree on something we discuss it and decide what is best for the marriage, not for either individual. Some people can never do that, and they shouldn't get married until they learn how. Maybe the reason some marriages end in divorce is that it is too easy to get married. We had a lot of hassle with my inlaws about getting married young, but working through that made us stronger. If everyone had a hard time getting married maybe marriage would mean more. Does that make sense?

  17. #17
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    Alternately, maybe divorce has become too easy, thus making people more likely to enter into a marriage to begin with. If this is the case, it should come as no surprise that there are so many divorces.

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    The ease of divorce really makes me sick. Too many people use it because of their immature expectations of a marriage in the first place. That's why I'm careful with anyone who would want to mary me. Of course there is always the prenupt for insurance , but those things are costly.

    Doc

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    I use the BBC as my homepage and noticed this link on there
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    Could be useful for this thread

  20. #20
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    There have been a lot of good posts here. I have really enjoyed reading all the ideas, and thoughts. thanks !

    It might be that I'm the only, or one of the very few here, who has experienced divorce and re-marriage. I would not say, in the technical sense, that divorce is easy. Even in Japan, where once all a man had to do was go get the form from the city hall, sign it, hand it in, and that was that...it was finished... and society generally held the woman to be at fault. Those crazy days are gone now.

    I can agree with a lot of the statements on committment and such, they are right I think--especially in how marriage plays a role in society maintenance. At the same time, I'm not convenced that the basic paradigm, or how marriage is conceptualized, is not without need of some adjustment to fit flow of change in society itself--nothing is fixed and permanent, it all shifts and slides in very slow, large, and hard to quickly notice ways. Also, just, on the other side of the coin, divorce should also be looked at closely.

    From what I gather, after financial matters, sex seems to be a big problem of concern, according to marriage counceling people. That makes sense, because the most underlying hard spot in marriage is without doubt sex--and I don't mean just the act, but the state first, then the act. This is where I think education plays a big role.

    In my marriage life, I attempt to stress communication--and that should be done before choosing to get married. I stress the importance of 'it takes two hands to clap'--neither can do it alone. I put a lot of emphasis on the sexual connection--partners should have as balanced libidos as possible before going into marriagae, and after the 'love coctail' begins to wear off, should both make every effort to create scenes and situations that tend to draw out those old memories, and thus mock that 'love cocktail' again.

    I would tend to reword the 'it's too easy to get married' formula into maybe a 'people marry to easily' type line. And, likewise the 'divorce is too easy' thing too. I really vouch for a good, balanced, and realistic education before walking down that marriage road--and always urge my students here to hold off for a while after graduating--people change.

    Japan has a lot of growing to do in this area. See you all later !!
    Last edited by Mars Man; 01-09-05 at 03:02. Reason: spell check

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    Wow - there are interesting posts here. I agree with a lot of what Doc and Brooker said. Personally, I think marriage is a good thing. I feel that it is more than just a legal thing with the bit of paper and all. But of course, it depends on the attitude of the people going into the marriage. Some people get married only for the legal reasons, others maybe don't have a very mature idea of what marriage is like but think of some 'ideal' instead, others marry only for the sake that they want their children to have married parents... I don't think these motives on their own are enough to get a marriage to work.

    Couples split up all the time, whether they are married or cohabiting or what. Some people perhaps just see marriage as a legal kind of extension of living with someone. I think it's a lot more than that.

    Personally, I would only get married to someone if I was certain I wanted to spend the rest of our lives together. Therefore, I would have to trust them 100% (maybe that's not possible, but so be it - in that case I will never get married, I'm not bothered). But to live with someone you don't necessarily have to have that level of trust. (Some couples obviously do, and that's great...)

    I think marriage strengthens a relationship. But of course, everything depends on the individuals involved. If people are nagging or selfish or obnoxious or perhaps even abusive, marriage can become an awful trap. But that's the person/people at fault, not the concept of marriage. Well, that's just my view.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsao
    others maybe don't have a very mature idea of what marriage is like but think of some 'ideal' instead, others marry only for the sake that they want their children to have married parents... I don't think these motives on their own are enough to get a marriage to work.
    A lot of good points there Kinsao san !! I think the above one is more common over here in Japan, and in that respect, really stress Marriage Education--along with Sex Education.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I was divorced after a 20 year marriage, now married again for 6 years and the one place where it seems to me most relationships in general fail is communication. Learning how to communicate with your partner constructively can be key to keeping marriage together.

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