Are humans all born equal ?

[hope]

No all humans are not born equal and it is naive to think otherwise.
For example a child born in a sub-saharan country will for the greater part be born into poverty, hunger, lack of healthcare, disease, sometimes poor or no education,bad housing, perhaps war, basic things as clean water ..the list goes on and on. The infant mortality rate is high and in Ethiopia as an eg. a child is thirty times more likely to die by five than their counterpart in Western Europe.
Furthermore these children are unlikely to reach the academic level they more than likely could unless the above mentioned changes (despite what Murray and Herrnstein would attempt to tell us)
A child born in, say Europe, will have a distinct advantage over those above . Health care in the West despite some reforms in some countries or lack of funding at times to keep up with ever increasing costs are for the greater part very good. Most women will have access to pre -natal care and deliver in a hospital with midwives or doctors. These children will go on to state funded education and the chance of further and higher education if so wished. This makes for good footing for the future, in general.
So no, not everyone is born equal, unfortunately.

[JFWR]

No all humans are not born equal and it is naive to think otherwise.
For example a child born in a sub-saharan country will for the greater part be born into poverty, hunger, lack of healthcare, disease, sometimes poor or no education,bad housing, perhaps war, basic things as clean water ..the list goes on and on. The infant mortality rate is high and in Ethiopia as an eg. a child is thirty times more likely to die by five than their counterpart in Western Europe.
Furthermore these children are unlikely to reach the academic level they more than likely could unless the above mentioned changes (despite what Murray and Herrnstein would attempt to tell us)
A child born in, say Europe, will have a distinct advantage over those above . Health care in the West despite some reforms in some countries or lack of funding at times to keep up with ever increasing costs are for the greater part very good. Most women will have access to pre -natal care and deliver in a hospital with midwives or doctors. These children will go on to state funded education and the chance of further and higher education if so wished. This makes for good footing for the future, in general.
So no, not everyone is born equal, unfortunately.

Yet these same sub-Saharan African children, when raised in wealth and plenty in the West (not just in the US, but also Canada and Europe) never intellectually match their peers from other races. The gap DOES shrink, but the gap itself remains. There's a point at which it seems that the African capacity for intelligence is limited by inheritable faculties. This doesn't make them inferior people in all regards by any means, but it does place their inequality of ability within a framework of partial inheritance.

There's even a quick evolutionary reason this might be so: Races that come from tropical and other Southern areas may not require as much active need for intellect by their easier lifestyle which does not have to cope with scarcity of food and climate as acutely as those in Northern climes. The Earth gives more plentifully and easily in Southern climates (in a low-population society such as was previously the case, rather than in the overpopulated/underdeveloped nightmare which is Africa now) than it does in Northern ones.

However, I do not know what the baseline for EXTREME northern populations are. I don't know how intelligent Eskimo or Saami populations are in general. Has there been any tests on this?

[Yetos]

Equality is an idea that expressed by ancient civilizations

Historically the first equality was NOT in Christians BUT in Doric comunities especially Spartians

the term is ΟΜΟΙΟΙ means shame and equals.

now lets put some limits in equality and some criteria,
woman and man can never be equal since their role is different, even in Christians Paul say that a womqn can be saved if at least born a child.
a black African and a blonde N European can never be equal since their genes are suitable for some climates,
what nature saved and deposit for centuries today we overpass it due modern city comfort, but that is against 'mother nature winsdom love and grace'

a child that is born in Patagonia, in Australia's originals and in New York can not be equal since the information that receives from its enviroment are different,

a man that manages to live >100 years due to some conditions can be equal (in life terms) with the one that does not?
a man that works in a mine can have equal life with one that breeds animals in open country side?


so then what is equality that people demand?

I believe mainly has to do with inside a community, a group, an area etc,
equality at least as expressed in Sparta was class rights and obligations and judging system.

when I ask for equality in my community I ask for fair chances, fair judges, fair rulling system, in comparison to provide my obligation to the community.

you can not compare a New York child with a child in lake Titikaka and a child in Bombay, asking for equality in the standards of living, but you can ask for equality in New York children to have different chances and judgement treaty

that is the main Hypocricy of today's philosophy movements and Religion rullers.

giving an example
at the Greece of crisis IMF manager christine Langarde dare to compare Greece with Nigeria and Latvia,
but she oversee that IMF put Taxation in homelles people 170 E, and ask same taxation no matter the income of the family,
so family that has 15 000 E income/year payed Xtra 700 E + 400-800 E
a family that has 30 000 E payed 920 +400-800 E
and a family of 60 000 E payed 820 +400-800 E
That is not equality, cause lacks of fair chances.
and you can not compare Nigeria with Greece to say about equality.

other example of equality is the Lehman brother case,
By what I know when Lehman brother close, chief and haed managers took their salaries, but simple workers did not,
That is an hypocricy, cause if we consider USA as a group-a community, and even the corporation as a community, simple workers were not judged fair neither had their fair chances,

And believe me I don't care about equality among Sub-Sahara and Helvetia, I care mostly about equality among Sub-Sahara and Helvetia communities.

The Hypocricy that Religious guiders and some Bankers via media provide about equality among some poor African and some rich North is just a stupidity,

remember that in a community, a short man and a tall one can co-exist, but do we judge them different?
do we say that only the tall ones must go to universities?
surely not.

[hope]

Yet these same sub-Saharan African children, when raised in wealth and plenty in the West (not just in the US, but also Canada and Europe) never intellectually match their peers from other races.

I have read that African immigrants coming to America for education purposes have went on to do very well. I believe it was something estimated at 48.9
per cent holding diplomas, more than double the rate of native born Americans and four times the rate of fellow American born Africans. If these figures are correct
then I would say they are not only matching their peers from other races but out-stripping them. (J. Logan and 2000 census) In fact is this not the African Brain Drain debate?
As for Canada sociological literature reports something similar (but to a lesser degree).Boyd 2002.
Within the U.K. the Centre of Economic Performance noted that 21% of those of African origin hold university diplomas against 14% of native born British.
Among ethnic minorities in Britain black males over the age of thirty hold more educational achievements than other minority groups.
I still believe that if the environment is right all can achieve( of course there will always be those who will do less well across all ethnic cultures).
You will excuse me if I decline from further on this topic as it may be seen to deviate from original thread and into something less favourable.

As for studies regarding Inuits there are some that may be found on-line, but I don`t think they are very detailed, unless I have missed them.

[JFWR]

[QUOTE=hope;396795]I have read that African immigrants coming to America for education purposes have went on to do very well. I believe it was something estimated at 48.9
per cent holding diplomas, more than double the rate of native born Americans and four times the rate of fellow American born Africans.

If these figures are correct
then I would say they are not only matching their peers from other races but out-stripping them. (J. Logan and 2000 census) In fact is this not the African Drain Brain debate?
As for Canada sociological literature reports something similar (but to a lesser degree).Boyd 2002.
[quote]

It woudn't shock me. One would think that with limited spaces and the expenses associated with travel, that those who come here to study would be amongst the very best in order to secure their positions. Moreover, I wouldn't put much by a college education (at least on a BA level) in the US. It's not especially difficult, even in good schools, and there have been plenty of problems with favourable grading schemes, et cetera.

If we say that these Africans represent the top 10 percent of intelligence in Africa, would it be that surprising that the top 10 percent will do especially well in America v. the average? Or in Canada? Or any country, for that matter? If these weren't particularly bright students, that'd be another thing. There's always going to be superior intelligences in any race, and those who would immigrate to a country SPECIFICALLY to study would probably be amongst them.

Within the U.K. the Centre of Economic Performance noted that 21% of those of African origin hold university diplomas against 14% of native born British.
Among ethnic minorities in Britain black males over the age of thirty hold more educational achievements than other minority groups.
I still believe that if the environment is right all can achieve( of course there will always be those who will do less well across all ethnic cultures).
You will excuse me if I decline from further on this topic as it may be seen to deviate from original thread and into something less favorable.

Wasn't the majority of Britons discouraged from higher-education until very recently? Likewise, is the situation with Africans similar to that of immigrants to the US?

That's perfectly fine. We could continue elsewhere if you want.

As for studies regarding Inuits there are some that may be found on-line, but I don`t think they are very detailed, unless I have missed them.

If you know of any especially good ones that I could access via JSTOR or something, I'd be most obliged.

[hope]

If you know of any especially good ones that I could access via JSTOR or something, I'd be most obliged.

Unfortunately I don`t, but perhaps some-one on the forum might.