Intelligence How intelligent really are apes ?

[Sensuikan San]

I suggest the gorilla would have smashed the jar. :relief:

:clap: .... I think you might be right, too! ... and wouldn't that display a quick intelligence, when you think about it! (... but do Gorillas enjoy crab?)

Weee sensuikan is very excited about this topic, it makes it interesting again.

I know animals are smart....not my dog, no, never....he's just a retard, i wont go into the long list of why he's a disgrace to canine intelligence, but suffice to say he's a sandwich short of a picnic. :blush:

Thank you, my kilted friend! :beer: Yes - I am a little excited by this ... a fascinating subject ... fascinating! I've always been more than aware of the fact that we are nothing more than 'just one more of the animals' ... and a keen observer of Jane Goodall and (the late) Dian Fossey. The more you read into this stuff ... the more fascinating and enlightening it becomes!

.... but ... I think you're rotten to your poor old dog ...! Shame on you!

Yes ... I know dogs can be stupid (like the day when ours sat down just eighteen inches from a rabbit - and didn't notice it ...! If only I had had a camera handy! The rabbit 'froze' - displaying more animal intelligence!) ... but don't sell him down the river like that! Just think of all the dumb things your local MP did today ... !

( ... of course ... if he is really a dumbo ... the dog or the MP, ... I dunno what to suggest .... do most people really know what's in haggis? .... I suppose it's the same with wives and kids ... but, again, I digress ...)

The comments about intelligence of sea creatures reminded me of something Arthur C Clarke said. He reckons that technology is only possible on land, as it needs fire. So he thinks no matter how intelligent dolphins etc are/become they could never have technology without first evolving back onto land. I disagree. I think it's theoretically possible that other forms of energy could be used underwater to develop technology, but I don't really know enough about the subject to be sure. Any ideas?

I love Arthur C. Clarke and his amazing books ... but ... here, I think he missed a point. He is looking at the whole issue through human eyes! And one of the worst sins committed by humans is anthropomorphisation. (Is that really a word? ..... bugger! ....It is now!)

This is an entirely separate element that has to come into the greater question. The question of "advancement" and "need".

It may come as a surprise, until you think about it, but generally life in the oceans of this world of ours is much more stable than on land. Nothing that we call "weather" really exists! In any given patch of (marine - not river or lake) water - temperature, salinity, PH, nitrate level etc. etc. are almost perfectly stable. They have to be, the volume of water is so huge. Cataclysmic events like an oil spill are, even now, relatively local ... although, I grant that they grow exponentially ... and are sadly having their effect through accumulation.

But ... into this, you have life forms that are already almost perfectly adapted to their surroundings. They don't have to combat cold, heat, wind ... even gravity!

Disregard the fact that they might find it difficult to develop a technology. Ask yourself if they need to!

What's their technology going to achieve?

Does a whale need radio? Nah! They can communicate with low frequency sound over tens of thousands of miles! (really!)

Does a reef fish need a car? Nah!

Does a coral reef need an urban infrastructure? Yeah ... it already has one!

Do any of the life forms in the oceans have intelligence? ... I dunno; I suspect they might have ... but .... must it be like ours? Must we measure everything against our own values?

We measure our "advancement" by measuring our technology. This is valid ... to us.. We need it ... increasingly as we exascurbate the difficulties that surround us each day ... but others are not necessarily in that position. Until of course ... one day ... perhaps ... we put them there ...

Anybody read "Planet of the Apes"?

?W????

 

[nurizeko]

There was a documetary series about the possible evolutions of life in a future if humans died out tomorrow, one scenario was small tree-dwelling squid in very humid rainforest or something, and another was a muych large ground-dwelling squid.

Anyway the point being what with squiddy intelligence and tenticles reasonably good as thumbs, in a few million years maybe squid will develope intelligence.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

:We measure our "advancement" by measuring our technology. This is valid ... to us.. We need it ... increasingly as we exascurbate the difficulties that surround us each day ... but others are not necessarily in that position. Until of course ... one day ... perhaps ... we put them there

Wow Sen-san, you're right. Put that together with what Kinsao said about us not knowing squid technology if it hit us in the face like a wet fish. Basically humans have technology to overcome our limitations so that we can better adapt to and exploit our environment. But if you fit perfectly in that environment, who needs technology! Sen-san, I bow down before your superior intellect! I am a mere gorilla to your superhuman! :sorry:

 

[ultralars]

Well, A bigger brain doesn't mean anything as much of the brain is dedicated to control your muscles. So bigger brain doesn't equal more intelligent if the body is bigger.

What makes humans more intelligent? Well think about this, if a very intelligent guy today was making progress in a very advanced field of science, would he make the same kind of progress in some field if he was born 3000 years ago? It would seem that it's not our ability to understand or whatever that makes us smart, it's our ability to learn and use that knowledge. To learn from others. Which is probably why it took so long before we developed out of the stone age, It's probably the same reason that civiliazations undergo golden ages. They always need a little push to reach their true potential.

also ancient civilizations that had massive progress in culture, technology etc at one point in history doesn't necessarily have the same relative intelligence as other people today.

Also people like the Germans and Brits, who only around 2000 years ago or so, was still squatting around a fireplace while the Romans had an high developed culture. Today the Germans and Brits have many of the most intelligent people in the world.

So might reading and learning boost intelligence? i think so

 

[himagain]

The very concept of intelligence is a human construction.
Why try to apply it to other genera and species?

 

[joyee]

Nice sharing dude.

personalized cups

 

[Algernon]

The most brilliant gorillas, chimps, and even orangs on regular have the intellect and attention of a 4 season old kid. Because the other excellent apes have a mind that is very much wired like our own they have been believed to be more brilliant than dolphin.

 

[The Gheg]

definitely pretty smart