Life After Death

Do you believe in life after death?


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Tsuyoiko

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OK, this is a cliched topic, but there doesn't seem to be a thread about it, and I know people have strong feelings. So what do you think happens after we 'shuffle off this mortal coil'?

I think we survive only in the work we leave behind, and in the memories of those who knew us.
 
thus conscience does make cowards of us all :D

i am not sure still, some of my experience yet can`t be explained by simple coincidence

oops, there was another thread %))) sorry, Tsuyoiko, but i wouldn`t vote anyway :blush:
 
I suppose that "I believe in death after life" means that we believe that there is 'nothing' after life ? That's more or less my view, except that I believe in the eternity of matter which we are made of, and as I don't believe in the soul, that means that I believe in the eternity of the matter and energy that compose us.
 
Maciamo said:
I suppose that "I believe in death after life" means that we believe that there is 'nothing' after life ?
Yep. I just saw it referred to that way somewhere, and I thought it was quite cute. I agree with your comment about matter and energy.
 
I believe in spirits, mediums, I believe in them completely. But as far as an "After Life" goes I don't believe or not believe in it. I do not find the idea of it comforting at all but I will not deny or accept it. I hope there is nothing after this Life but frankly I can never know for sure 'til I die so there's no point believing it or not.
 
I believe in some kind of existence of the soul after death, but I very much doubt it is in any way that we could comprehend in this life.

Maciamo said:
I believe in the eternity of matter which we are made of, and as I don't believe in the soul, that means that I believe in the eternity of the matter and energy that compose us.

Broadly I agree with Maciamo, with the difference that I believe in the soul. I'm not sure how to explain, but I think it is part of the energy that composes us. :confused:
 
I believe in eternal life and I can't wait to get there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I Hope !!!!

I can come back as a pampered cat.
 
In some ways, I don't know that it can be reasoned, but for the sake of sanity, I believe in reincarnation. I would like to believe that those born under horrid circumstances would have a better life sometime later. I would also like to believe that good people wouldn't go to hell, or judgement day, and lastly I would like to believe that those who never came near the truth might have the chance to do so in a later life.
 
There was an interesting thread on this that Smoke started back in April on "What Happens After We Die?. I posted my answer here.

After experiencing actually leaving my physical body, which I detailed in the link above, I firmly believe in a "life" after the death of the physical body and research done for the past 30 odd years seems to back it up.

I firmly believe that we all have a soul that survives to be reborn again or to go on to higher things. As Maciamo said we are matter. And I believe that the soul is pure energy/matter. And from what I've researched, energy and matter cannot be destroyed, it only takes another form. Much the same way water, when boiled turns to steam. Or a leaf when burned turns to ashes. The matter has only taken another form, but it still survives. Therefore, I believe that we continue to survive when we depart this physical plane.

Tsuyoiko, you ar a fan of Stargate SG1 as I am. Remember what happened to your favorite character, Dr. Daniel Jackson? He ascended. I believe that eventually that is the destiny of us all - to ascend to a higher life form when we are finished with "school house earth". There is a lot more reality to science-"fiction" than most people would believe.
 
As usual these days, I don't have the time to really sit down and make a detailed post, but this thread did catch my eye, and I felt the urge to jump on board.

Again, I really, way deep down inside, wish these polls could be more comprehensive in scope, but know that that's probably impossible. I voted for the last on the list, wishing there would have been something about the conscious mind; the being itself. As brought out by Maciamo, it most always seems that this 'life after death' subject is really more of a 'conscious, present-self after physical (death (as percieved by the physical brain))' matter.

I really don't see how we can deny that the mind, the being, and the consciousness itself, is the materiality of the brain alone. All experience has to be by the brain--I cannot see any way around that. We know that the person can change into a very different person with brain damage and change. It is quite clear that the brain of one with autism is exactly that brain, that person, that consciousness.

I would hope to discuss this matter fully too. . . and I just cannot wait to have the time to do so. Many do have strong beliefs, as Tsuyoiko said, but are they only beliefs? To what degree can the various understandings be shown to be plausible? I'll come back again; please forgive me.
 
Thanks Mars Man. As you say, it is so difficult to think of all the possible options to include in a poll. I suppose the two I missed would be "I believe in a soul that is separate from the body" and "I believe that human consciousness survives death".

There are two books that convinced me that brain function entirely explains human consciousness: The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat by Oliver Sacks and The Undiscovered Mind by John Horgan. Has anyone read those, and still believe in a soul separate from the body?
 
I Wonder.......

where is our "soul" before our birth? Does it exist, or is the soul "born" into existance when we are conceived? Does the brain have to develop for a "soul" to exist? Maybe our souls sit on a shelf or in a box till we have a body to put it in? Do bugs, fish, other mammals, germs, etc. have a soul? Lots of "soulful" thinking can go into this topic!

:?
 
Mars Man said:
All experience has to be by the brain--I cannot see any way around that. We know that the person can change into a very different person with brain damage and change. It is quite clear that the brain of one with autism is exactly that brain, that person, that consciousness.

Tsuyoiko said:
There are two books that convinced me that brain function entirely explains human consciousness: The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat by Oliver Sacks and The Undiscovered Mind by John Horgan. Has anyone read those, and still believe in a soul separate from the body?
I have not read those books nor do I desire to as I have a completely different view based on real life experience.

To me, the brain is just a conduit, a "resting place" so to speak, the most complex organ of the physical body, in order that the soul/conciousness can experience the five senses in this physical world of ours. Now if something were to happen to the brain that would render me incapable of acting my "normal" self that the people around me have come to know me as, it would not mean that I am a different person. I would still be the same person but with no control over the damage to to my brain that rendered me a "different" person. That would be a most terrifying experience.

Let me try and put it a different way. When I was younger I had the misfortune of being diagnosed with grand mal seizure disorder. In other words epilepsy. The worst kind. This was caused by some blunt trauma to the brain when I was young and was clearly seen on x-rays and scans by the neurologists. This damaged part of the brain would sometimes "misfire" and I would have seizures. At its worst I would have a seizure 2 or 3 times a month.

I guess I was fortunate in that I would know when a seizure was coming on in that I would start to hallucinate and begin to feel weird and not my "normal" self. As a youngster of 12 this really startled me. I had absolutely no control over it as much as I tried. I would begin to feel funny, see things that really weren't there in the physical world, talk incoherently and then I would black out. Sometimes with violent shaking and spasms and sometimes not.

I once hallucinated, or transported myself to an outdoor scene that was like 200 years ago! I was sitting outside at a big table with all kinds of food on it, the sky was clear with a few clouds, there was a slight breeze that I felt on my face and I could also feel the warmth of the sun! I could smell the food on the table and hear all sounds around me. The people were speaking in a language that I thought was English, but could not quite comprehend. What really freaked me out was that everyone was dressed in Pilgrim clothes of the early English settlers to America! I can recall that scene to this day in it's most minute details as, to me, I was actually there and did experience it. I know what a dream is and what it feels like. This was NO dream. That I am certain of.

When I would come to a few hours later after blacking out I would have complete amnesia and would not know where I was or even recognize who my parents were! Inside my soul/conciousness I would know who I was. I was still the same person I always was! It just terrified the hell out of me that I could not, for the life of me, recall who these people standing around me were or where I was or what had happened to me. Luckily, gradually but surely, my memories returned within an hour or so. But what a freaky feeling to be able to know you were still you but could not recall anything!

I once opened my eyes from one of these seizures and was completely paralyzed. I mean I couldn' move a muscle. Talk about a terrifying experience! People were trying to talk to me and I was trying to answer but my brain wouldn't respond. I was still the same person I always was with the same thoughts and all, but I had no control as my brain had failed to relay my thoughts to my limbs and vocal chords. Within a 10 minutes or so my brain was able to function and I could move and talk as usual.

The shame of it is is that the medical profession just blew off these hallucinations and paralysis as just my "imagination". But, they are not me and they DID NOT experience what I experienced! They did not know that my conciousness/soul never changed one iota. It was just my brain that changed. What wonders could be discovered if people like doctors and scientists didn't have closed minds?

Now if my brain were severely and permanently damaged and I started acting like a different person or became violent I believe that it would not mean that I had changed as I was still "me", the conciousness/soul residing in the brain. It would mean that my brain had failed to function properly and I had lost all control of the real me operating inside this body and trying to partake normally in the physical world.

Does this explain violent behavior in people? I think not as I believe that some people are pure evil. But it might explain some schizophrenic behavior in people or people with autuism and other illnesses whose brains have failed to function properly for one reason or another. Inside they are still the same person they always were and always will be.

Look at people like Mohammed Ali or Michael J. Fox who have Parkinsons disease. They have absolutely lost all control over the muscles of their body. Does this make them a different person? I think not as I know from first-hand experience what it feels like to lose control over one's muscles, vocal chords, and memories. Inside we are still the same person we always were and always will be. It's just that our physical brain, that organ that alllows us to function normally, has failed in one way or another and it is a most terrifying experience to feel normal on the inside with absolutely no control of a failed brain.

Therefore, I cannot comprehend that the brain and soul/conciousness are one and the same. That upon death "we" cease to be. Based on my experiences with a flawed brain, it just doesn't make sense. To me they will always be seperate and, upon death, the soul/conciousness departs the physical body and the physical world for a life that, here in the physical world, we are forbidden to recall.

Luckily I have not had a seizure in 25 years or so. The doctors say I may have outgrown it, but they always say it may return one day as the "spot" on the brain is still there. I pray not. However, being much older and wiser, I may look forward to those hallucinations again just to see what the brain is capable of and seeing if I can "control" the hallucinations as it is said that we humans only utilize 5-7% of our actual brain capacity.
 
Hi Pachipro :wave: I'm glad to hear you're not having the seizures anymore, and I really hope they never come back.

Your point of view is interesting, and so different from mine - opposite really! From my own experience I feel that we don't stay the same from day to day, let alone over the course of many years. I am a very different person than I was 10 years ago, and I believe that is because of the way my experiences have changed my brain. In a very small way I am a different person than I was even just this morning, because of the things I have learnt over the course of today - experiences and knowledge that I believe exist as neural connections in my brain.

I don't think reducing human experience to brain function makes it any less valuable or amazing, any more than knowing that the sun is a ball of gas makes it less awe-inspiring. More so for me in fact. I have a sense of wonder that everything I have learnt and everything I am is stored in a smallish lump of muscle. That seems cool - if a bit scary - to me.
 
Pachipro, your post was really interesting to read. For over 20 years (it started when I was 2 years old) I am an epileptic. I took drugs for really long time, so of course what I have experienced could all be "fake" because I don't have any memories from before the treatment, but for me everything was real. I had different types of epilepsy during my life, it evolved till now, but it never was grand mal.

I think that having epylepsy is a terrifying experience. Now, I know when the seizure will come, but I can't control it. When the seizure is coming, I feel like I had two parts of me: one is that flawed which can't control the body (the mind) and another, which looks from aside. This is strange: you are you and at the same time you are unable to be you - to control yourself. I feel my experiences are a bit similar to these of Pachipro.

I see sometiomes I have changed. But all the changes are quite on the surface: I started wearing non-black clothes, I started eating pizza etc. It's never something deep. Of course, during life I had many experiences that made me see something new, and changed me, at last I thought they changed me. But when I go back in time, I see that I haven't changed.

For me it's the opposite of body/mind and soul. Soul is something that exist outside the materia, and body/mind are material. Soul will advance itself during its "lifespan" entering various bodies. I remember past experience from other lives...and other souls... Of course,somebody can say it's only because of epilepsy I saw/felt these, but for me that's true. That is my reality.

I hope I didn't bore anybody to death. Also, sorryfor the chaoticness ofmy thoughts.
 
From my own experience I feel that we don't stay the same from day to day, let alone over the course of many years. I am a very different person than I was 10 years ago, and I believe that is because of the way my experiences have changed my brain. In a very small way I am a different person than I was even just this morning, because of the things I have learnt over the course of today - experiences and knowledge that I believe exist as neural connections in my brain.
Certainly, and something you forgot as well, maybe, just smth little and
insignificant... Besides, with years some connections get blocked or even
destroyed, you can see your memory getting worse as well as the ability to
concentrate. And which is more, the difference between me of 10 years ago and today is also due to the social roles i play ("the masks we wear")

Many schizophrenics see "the doors" normal people never notice, that`s why
some of schizs make geniune (without mock) discoveries (especially at debute), but with years desease destroys their personality and they lose the ability to socialize. What is behind their voices and strange behavior we can only guess. Though, tomorrow i am visiting my friend, she is psychiatrist, so i`ll ask some questions :souka:
 
I voted for "death after life". I believe we live on through memories, and I think that's great. My family still talks about the stories of great-great-great(etc.) ancestors. There's so much written history in my family, my mom's side in particular, that those people will never die. I would be more than satisfied if my upcoming family members remember me through those same types of stories. Having a great-great granddaughter bake one of my cakes or a great-great grandson telling how his great-great grandparents met is more than enough for me.
 
Tsuyoiko said:
From my own experience I feel that we don't stay the same from day to day, let alone over the course of many years. I am a very different person than I was 10 years ago, and I believe that is because of the way my experiences have changed my brain.
You have an interesting point here that I started to reply to concerning maturity, but I think I went off on a tangent and got really off subject and decided to put it off till tomorrow.

We all are much different than we were 10 or 20 or 30 years ago, but I feel it has more to do with maturing in todays society than a matter of brain function. I hope I can clarify myself tomorrow. If not I'll make a new thread.

Kama said:
For over 20 years (it started when I was 2 years old) I am an epileptic. I took drugs for really long time, so of course what I have experienced could all be "fake" because I don't have any memories from before the treatment, but for me everything was real. I had different types of epilepsy during my life, it evolved till now, but it never was grand mal.
Thanks for sharing your experience Kama. At least I am not the only one here to have experienced this. The drugs I used to take were phenobarbitol and dilantin and they never seemed to help stop the seizures. I'm grateful that the seizures stopped on their own or maybe I had something to do with it as when I was turned down for a drivers licensesome 32 years ago I got so mad that I went back to my room, took my medicine and threw it in the trash can while yelling, "I DON'T HAVE EPILEPSY! From that day forward I have never had another seizure! Unbelievable, but true.

For me it's the opposite of body/mind and soul. Soul is something that exist outside the materia, and body/mind are material. Soul will advance itself during its "lifespan" entering various bodies. I remember past experience from other lives...and other souls... Of course,somebody can say it's only because of epilepsy I saw/felt these, but for me that's true. That is my reality.
I feel and believe exactly what you do. For me that experience of being in a place some 200 years ago when I had a seizure was real and actually occured. It's beyond logical explaination, but I was there and it was as real as I feel typing this reply.

Void said:
Many schizophrenics see "the doors" normal people never notice, that`s why
some of schizs make geniune (without mock) discoveries (especially at debute), but with years desease destroys their personality and they lose the ability to socialize. What is behind their voices and strange behavior we can only guess. Though, tomorrow i am visiting my friend, she is psychiatrist, so i`ll ask some questions
Please do. It is said that there is a very fine line between a genius and a crazy or retarded person. In my opinion I feel that schizs or people with autuism are not mentally deranged, but that they have access to a part of the higher function of the brain that normal people do not. Since this is considered "abnormal" by the medical profession they are labled mentally unstable or retarded and looked at with a raised eyebrow. It's not fair and should be researched further.

Think about a person who is coming down with alzheimers's disease. Their brain is literally falling apart and ceasing to function. I wonder what they feel on the inside. Inside, do they feel they are still the same person as I did, but cannot react to it or recall memories? I think maybe so.

Look at poor Terry Shiavo (sp), the woman they starved to death in Florida because they said she was brain dead. I believe that she knew exactly what what was happening to her, but because of her failed brain, she was unable to let her feelings be known. Inside she was still alive and very aware. It's a disgrace what they did to her and it must've been very painful and terrifying to her to be literally starved and dehydrated to death. If they had just given her a shot to stop her heart as they do with terminal animals, it would've been more humane. But no. They tortured the poor woman and they should all be ashamed of themselves as I'm sure she "knew" exactly what was happening to her, but was helpless. Unfortunately, we are still in the Dark Ages when it comes to the medical profession.
 

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