Learning Russian

[MWThomas]

Is Russian a difficult language to learn, not only to speak, but to read?

[nice gaijin]

Using a modified cyrillic alphabet with 33 letters, I'd say it'd be a rough language to start learning, but once you can confidently sound the words out it should just be a matter of mastering the grammar structures.

At my school, Russian is ranked at the top of the difficulty chart for languages, along with Japanese, Chinese, and Arabic, though this might be because they all have completely different alphabets from English. As a westerner learning a language that uses Kanji, I constantly have the feeling of being partially illiterate, as I run into characters that are new to me every day. It's a great learning experience but a bit frustrating at times.

Are you considering picking up Russian? let us know how it goes. Here's a wikipedia article on the language http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language and there should be a few people on the boards that probably speak it; just look for the flag ;)

[Void]

pronounciation might give you hard time. To read you`ll have to learn the alphabet different from latin. If you are familiar with spanish then grammar might not be too difficult for you. Well, we decline, conjugate (have flexions)

[Sensuikan San]

I would agree with Void.

I'm afraid I don't know much, if any Russian - but I can 'read' (but can't translate) it quite easily. I did once (with no options! - it was a compulsory high school subject ...!)have to study Greek. The alphabet was a breeze - took two weeks at most to become "natural" and has many similiarities with Cyrillic. (I was only twelve years old at the time, too!)

The grammar will be far more complex than English - but since English has very little grammar to start with - all languages will give you the same problem!

A useful language to have at your disposal though! Especially today.

Good luck! (Хорошее Везение!)

ジョン

[Mars Man]

Of course I would have to agree with Void, he has to be in the know on that one. Oh, may I please encourage you, MWThomas, to work hard at learning that language. I found it very interesting, though hard due to all the moods that you have to learn by heart, and how they are shown with inflections and such.

I took Russian for two semesters in college, my first two, at that--I made an F in English Comp., but an A+ in Russian. Now why I didn't pursue it further after that beats me, I still have the books and some LP discs, (I'd like to get some CDs, and get it back) but lack of use has caused it to rust a lot.

Please do learn the language !!!

[MWThomas]

Where can I find information about schools that teach Russian and Japanese in Virginia?

[kumo]

Where can I find information about schools that teach Russian and Japanese in Virginia?

From a google search:
http://www.nv.cc.va.us/vflc/russian.htm#courses
http://www.yoshkar-ola.com/english/i..._russian.shtml
http://www.virginia.edu/summer/cours...s/russian.html

Hope this helps.

[PRIZMATIC]

... Difficulty of "Russian" not is so much in variety of "rules" which should be known and which vary in due course, for example - rules �������r�����y���p�~�y�� some words with "U" and "YU" which I learned at school now are changed, etc., and that at all "complexity" is not enough them that it is possible "to express" .�S�p�{, for example, the word "love" (provisional sense in Russian variant - " liking to a sight ") concerns to all - both to the person, and to an animal and to a thing... And that you feel that to the woman much more than is located in sense of this word... Especially I am irritated with definition of the husband and the wife, in Russian variant it is derivatives from words "man" and "woman" - reminds definition of "dogs" on sex... And such "problems" in this language - in many set.. Personally I am ready to learn either the Korean or Japanese language instead of Russian and forget, that once knew Russian...

[Mars Man]

That sounds interesting PRIZMATIC san ! I'll have to pull out my books, blow the dust off them, and start reviewing again...but I need to get an English-Russian dictionary too.

I gess all languages have their bad areas; and terminology changes too.

[PRIZMATIC]

Mars Man san!...
P.S. Problem not in " bad areas " , problem - from "necessary" I cannot express much through "Russian"...

[Void]

since my native language is Russian i tend to disagree with Prizmatic (but, maybe i just don`t understand his point).
1. every language has its share of abnormal or abusive lexis
2. as well as english has at least "love" and "like", russian also makes difference between these two feelings (that speakers often don`t distinguish them in their speech only describes their idiolect, not the language itself)
3. grammar rules tend to change in any language
4. flexions make language very rich as well as big set of affixes (is it correct plural form?) Though it is true for lots of languages but not often used by non-native speakers
5. russian language allows to express any hew of a feeling or emotion. the only limit it has is 3 genders and different from english approach to times (though, i might be mistaken - i am not a linguist)

[PRIZMATIC]

When that rules the spelling, probably natural process aside simplifications of language vary... But if comparing Russian, for example, the eleventh century - you understand, what together with simplification and the set of senses in this language was lost also many... And now it " a plural set of the simplified and simplified words "... But if when you reflect - how, for example, to express feeling to the girlfriend, which causes ten shades of feelings of love in you, understand what to make it it is possible only in the comparative form... And it already "delirium"... Language which lost " direct forms of expression " - " died language "... Well and about forms I shall not speak " the Zen of constructions " - it is necessary many and many for use of simplified words so much to express sense, what to read it then extremely difficultly, really to understand...
But the most important is my personal relation to Russian language... I hope, I have such right while Putin in finally has not returned us in " the Soviet union a-lya Putin "...

[Void]

But if comparing Russian, for example, the eleventh century - you understand, what together with simplification and the set of senses in this language was lost also many...

may i ask? Have you ever read English of 11th century? Try and find an
example, - i bet you`d be surprised %)

And now it " a plural set of the simplified and simplified words "

and one more time this is not language what is lacking smth, these are speakers who have poor vocabulary, small thesaurus and lame tongue. If my ideolect is limited to the forms of �^�|�|�����{�p-�|���t���u�t�{�p it doesn`t mean that the language itself is limited (it is only a sign of my mental abilities )

But if when you reflect - how, for example, to express feeling to the
girlfriend, which causes ten shades of feelings of love in you, understand
what to make it it is possible only in the comparative form...

forgive me my rudeness but i feel sorry for you and your girlfriend. For hundreds of hews there are hundreds of words. In ANY language they will be comparative, that`s what turns the language into melody, into picture, into poetry

i like you... bewildered... burning ... attracted... adore... my soul is blooming... i care... flooding... i treasure... i want you... overwhelming... serenity... exalted... my heart grows warm... enchanted... embracing... trembling.. excited... tranquil... pleased... admire... trust (and entrust)... inspire... tenderness... devotion... touched... and many more

hundreds of words of different parts of speech, all enveloped into one word
signifying one, but unlimited feeling - love

I was once told that "direct forms of expression" doesn`t really matter and not needed. Because true feeling is hidden in little hints, slightests moves,
occasional words, in the eyes, in actions. And no exact word is able to cover
lies, because love is not in words but in a way one used them.

But the most important is my personal relation to Russian language... I hope, I have such right while Putin in finally has not returned us in " the Soviet union a-lya Putin "...

well, Zen also says that truly free person is free everywhere %)

[PRIZMATIC]

If I spoke " similar words " to the girlfriend, I am sorry - that she would meet me not long time... And I would understand her... As it " forms of expressions " are not peculiar to me... It is Enough to touch only the girlfriend and she " will read all this - in the (!) feelings "... Words are necessary for new forms of revelations for me... For the description of that of " the World of a reality " which becomes for me in the woman...
We speak about different measurements...
Freedom the Zen is internal freedom... But there is "external world"... Also there is still " an external world in Russia "... There Are the half-starved old men surviving for poor pensions, at that time when on the TV we show " the lured supernumeraries, as a rule from former workers of that system ", which destroying own people for "heterodoxy"... There Is much and many other things, that there is Russia...
And it is not pleasant for me...

[Void]

yet, this

Also there is still " an external world in Russia "... There Are the half-starved old men surviving for poor pensions, at that time when on the TV we show " the lured supernumeraries, as a rule from former workers of that system ", which destroying own people for "heterodoxy"... There Is much and many other things, that there is Russia...
And it is not pleasant for me...

is not pleasing at all, but doesn`t prevent you from having "personal relation" to Russian language. Putin has nothing to do with this relation

[PRIZMATIC]

Joke: there Were two Russian on one site...
It so - about Putin... He and Russian Language not " twins brothers " and when we speak "Russian" we we do not mean "Putin"...
But and if it is serious, " language forms " - in many respects define mentality... Than more primitively range " opportunities of this or that language ", the more primitively and faculty mentality (without insults - a pure statement of the fact) . And a history of Russia - direct acknowledgement to that... Because of " mentality of heads " people constantly pays " the big victims " - during all times of Russia... And same " mentality of people " gives it such "heads"...
For example, in Russia like to speak much about " the Second World war ", but you will hear nothing about the first genocide Russian - " a christening of Russia "... Besides, now by hook or by crook, that prince Vladimir,praised to the skies , as "benefactor" for Russia... Only today on TV there was an advertising of a cartoon film about it... Already and our children " poison with this lie "... Here and Putin appears - the unscrupulous official to whom " to spit on all this "... The Main thing - to be kept at authority...
All right is an infinite discussion " two Russian "...
"In today's has pleased" me - Putin has declared, in Azerbaijan that it is very important to respect religious feelings of others - and it means, that he has indirectly recognized my right to leave from Russia on by religious motives...

[Void]

two russians... maybe, but it`s rather idealization... and nevertheless you do not distinguish linguistics and cultural "mentality" (very popular word nowdays and only few will dare to explain "what the hell is this")

For at least 10 years i don`t need a reason to leave Russia... i am allowed to profess any religion as long as it doesn`t endanger people around

Yes baptising of Russia was done with the sword and many people today admit it. But it also was a political move, which had its reasons.
And if to speak about crippled language (which is highly questionable, imo) then it was rather done by writing system imposed by Kirill and Mefody

[PRIZMATIC]

When I mentioned a word "mentality" used it not to " cultural stratifications ", and is concrete - to " a design of language "... It is a separate theme... And rather complex...
Now about "Christening" - as many same Russian people " are poured by tears " thinking about Jesus Christ's crucifixion... And as few same Russian people of esteeming ancestors which have remained true to " belief of the fathers " and have been destroyed... But it too rather complex theme...
I simply would not like to live in such country where fidelity to " the belief " our ancestors try to erase at us from memory... I respect the ancestors... Also I am not going to forget about them...
That it was easier to understand - for me one thousand years ago Russia did not begin...
It only " a phantom of the Byzantian empire ", which symbol " is proud towers " above enslavement people... But it - for me...

[Mars Man]

Well, I must admit that I'm having a little bit of a hard time following, although I think I can get the general drift. It may have gone onto a side road to linguistics at the moment, and maybe that's why--NOT saying anything's bad about that, though....

I'll keep following along. It is interesting.

[Void]

When I mentioned a word "mentality" used it not to " cultural stratifications ",
and is concrete - to " a design of language "... It is a separate theme...
And rather complex...

Then elaborate it, please. `Cause i don`t see a connection you are trying
to draw. For me it looks rather like you are producing you own linguistical
problems onto language itself.
But as we say don`t mix soft with white, please. It is "Linguistics" section not political one. If you want to bring out political or historical issues it is better to do in another subforums

Now about "Christening" - as many same Russian people " are poured by tears " thinking about Jesus Christ's crucifixion... And as few same Russian people of esteeming ancestors which have remained true to " belief of the fathers " and have been destroyed... But it too rather complex theme...
I simply would not like to live in such country where fidelity to " the belief " our ancestors try to erase at us from memory...
I respect the ancestors... Also I am not going to forget about them...
That it was easier to understand - for me one thousand years ago Russia did not begin...
It only " a phantom of the Byzantian empire ", which symbol "
is proud towers " above enslavement people... But it - for me...

do you know european history well enough? do you know that it is also wasn`t always peacefully baptized? Where would you live then? Asia? i am afraid some "revelations" in their history might also be of the "I simply would not like to live in such country where fidelity to " the belief " our ancestors try to erase at us from memory... " type
As we also say "it is good at the places where there are no us" (and then add "but we are everywhere" ) "We" can be applied to any - russian or humans in general, as you know
It is good to keep memory about ancestors, but those people who were born 100 (and more) years after "christianisation" are also your ancestors. And they done a lot to the glory of a country and, who knows, maybe, even to the possibility of your birth. Should they be forgotten for the sake of older ones, just because they were raised under different religious ideals?
Russia begins not the hundred or thousand years ago, it begins when people
identify themselves as russians. It begins every minute when a new member of society is born -not the baby is born, but the one who is willing to contribute to what is called "Russia" and to accept it with all its history, achievments and wrongs, with glorious and horrible deeds. The one who realizes that there is nothing wrong in being russian, as well as nothing wrong in being american or chinese.
I am not being pathetic, i can see what`s going on and aware of how many
times our history was revised (you`d be surprised, but Ivan the Terrible and his actions were not as barbarius comparing to europe as portraited ), but i also know for sure that our country would be much better when at the places so called "small" people will do what they are suppose to do with all the quality and responsibility, when one would really respect his neighbour and give him a helping hand, and on the question "what? do you need more than others?" would answer "yes, because i care"
=================================
back to the linguistics.
In every language there are grammar forms and word that are direct and
even "blunt". Maybe it came form early ages when cooperative activities
had to be directed somehow (therefore the word-code had to be decoded in a
same way by everyone)
But language evolved, beside practical context it gained semantical context
as well. It became a tool to express and describe not just an external world
but also internal one. There are no two absolutely identical people and when it comes to expressing a feeling (especially complex ones) direct words don`t always help.
And, btw, lots of people get tired of too many words ("blunt" or comparative),
usually we also expect some deeds confirming what was said.

Words are necessary for new forms of revelations for me...
For the description of that of " the World of a reality " which becomes
for me in the woman...

they are there, within a reach and within russian language...
but sometimes it can be expressed through other arts which don`t require words, but yet, say a lot %)

We speak about different measurements...

then bring out a scale which serves as gauge in your measurments, and we shall see how different it is. And, by the way, don`t forget to point a subject you are measuring
Thanks in advance

[PRIZMATIC]

I " do not specify a theme " as I "do not argue" with this or that point of view... I simply perceive all through " the form of a monologue " is first difference of "measurement"... There Is no sense to specify those or other fragments of someone's ideas, as these ideas "someone's"... And they are, as there are also my ideas...
Actually all in this world is "politics" - even that the small child "complains" that parents have bought to him a new toy... Only for division of " spheres of definition " it is named "behaviour"...
For dialogue with the woman - " it is not necessary to speak ", she " needs to be loved "...
I have written, that " the design of language forms in Russian does not allow " to tell about the world which opens in intimate dialogue between the woman and the man... There Are only such forms - "sex", " super sex ", etc... But it is a complex theme... And it is necessary only for the one who wants to leave for limits of understanding simple " natural copulation "... And as "Russian" it " dead language ", in it many "designs" automatically " this language " is excluded from system are lost...
From resulted your "position" I also draw a conclusion, that our conversation occurs in " different measurements "... I call to think nobody also as I think...
In a history of " the Christian world " it is a lot of "spots", but these are problems of " the Christian world "... I only express the position to a history of that country in which I live... And - I do not accept this history...
Now about " scale measurements " is a simple measurement - " That there is a reality and that there is an illusion "... (" Branch of grains from a peel ")...
There is such concept - " big dynamics at full external inactivity "... It in the Zen refers to " an internal output from a circle "... It " alchemy of images "...

[Void]

I " do not specify a theme " as I "do not argue" with this or that point of
view... I simply perceive all through " the form of a monologue " is first
difference of "measurement"... There Is no sense to specify those or other
fragments of someone's ideas, as these ideas "someone's"... And they are,
as there are also my ideas...

do you notice that in your monologue you tend be deaf to other opinions?
Besides, there is no need to argue here, since you are just asked to clarify
your points. If you found necessary to sound your opinion about language
why you find useless to provide the basis of it and the reason? Why do you think that people might be interested in your monologue, but at the same time they will not interested in facts that led you to some statements?

i was asking about your liguistical measurments, not about the ways you
conduct a communication (dialogue, monologue, disscussion, whatever else)

Actually all in this world is "politics" - even that the small child "complains" that parents have bought to him a new toy... Only for division of " spheres of definition " it is named "behaviour"...

you are incoherent. this statment is hardly related to the issues brought up by you few posts earlier

I have written, that " the design of language forms in Russian does not allow " to tell about the world which opens in intimate dialogue between the woman and the man... There Are only such forms - "sex", " super sex ", etc... (...)
And it is necessary only for the one who wants to leave for limits of
understanding simple " natural copulation "...

prove it... or at least describe a perticular situation, `cause in general
what you said is true for all the languages i know. If it makes difficulties for
you to phrase it in english, write in your native tongue then.

and what do you mean by phrase "to leave for limits"?

And as "Russian" it " dead language ", in it many "designs" automatically
" this language " is excluded from system are lost...

worthless statement without any examples

From resulted your "position" I also draw a conclusion, that our conversation
occurs in " different measurements "...

From your "position" i can draw that you use word "measurment" without knowing what it actually means. And even accepting that i am wrong about this, you do not find it necessary to figure out is it really different, because
you are unwilling or unable to answer the questions i asked. This is only your
assumption that they are diffenrent, you`ll never will know for sure until
you'll turn monologue into a dialogue

Now about " scale measurements " is a simple measurement - " That there is
a reality and that there is an illusion "... (" Branch of grains from a peel ")...
There is such concept - " big dynamics at full external inactivity "... It in the Zen refers to " an internal output from a circle "... It " alchemy of images "...

I can bring you a lot of Zen statements from the books and from my own
experience. But this particular Zen is more likely an escape from the freedom.
If you wish to hide behind koans without understanding them, then the next
time you`ll bring out ideas, write before or after them: "This is my IMO, but
i am not going to support or explain it when asked. Because this is my reality
and i am not interested in any other illusions"

and, btw

For dialogue with the woman - " it is not necessary to speak ", she " needs to be loved "...

as well as man, it is relation, not the game into one gate

[PRIZMATIC]

Generally the Zen " does not study under books "... In books only it is possible to read about the Zen... There Is " c��mmercial use of a brand a Zen " when write books... The Zen can be comprehended only from the teacher to the pupil... (it so for the information(without offence))
" Language of the Zen " I also communicate with you...
In this multivariate refraction and reflection when the sense is outside of written, it is very difficult for much and this natural condition... The Zen has come to this world, not as " the collection of ideas on that or it "... It " school of the certain practice "... The World in the world...
The zen "is not deaf" to another's opinion... Simply " the another's opinion " is an opinion, and the Zen is a practice...
You speak about that or about it, is unimportant about what, it is important for you to express the idea... But you never wonder, than you measure " the opinion "?... For example, you could express the opinion creativity (this offer from your last letter) in music... How many people can understand what " you wanted to tell "?... In real measurement - anybody... Your product can "be only conformable" to perception of this or that person or group of people having in the experience similar experiences... In other cases - the technics and a harmonicity of your product " will be appreciated only "...
" Game in one gate "?... Probably I avoided development of relations with women who lifted similar questions " about a gate ", in a context about " reciprocity of feelings "... " Another's women " are not interesting to me, so the woman who with me, itself makes this choice...
And about " dead Russian " - for example, on Korean the word "window" is meant with " a small door ", but and Russian you can track "derivative", and now imagine, as the attitude to same "subject" in mentality of the Korean and Russian person differs... But it only my opinion and my attitude, do not forget it...
I do not have desire " to change Russian " and etc....
P.S. If you will closely read that I here have written will find answers to all your questions and even, that " I am present at a forum of this site not for disputes ", and for an exchange of those or other opinions...

[Void]

The Zen can be comprehended only from the teacher to the pupil...

absolutely wrong in "only" part. The flower of what is called Zen can effloresce within anyone without a teacher or at least without "special zen teacher".

The World in the world...

can be applied to lots of things here, as well as many of them can be considered practice "zen" just one of many names of same process

But you never wonder, than you measure " the opinion "?...
For example, you could express the opinion creativity (this offer from your last letter) in music... How many people can understand what " you wanted to tell "?... In real measurement - anybody...

this talk here started about language in particular (it was my side suggestion to use other means when words don`t come). You brought out "different measurments" - no offence, just to remind. But i think the problem of "mesaurment" can be left aside (at least for now), i can assume that it was related to the zen and such, and not to the linguistic, i can even assume that you just mistakenly used "measurment" instead of "dimension" (though, the position of phrase in a text was rather dubious).

And nevertheless why do you attach only yours experience to the whole world of one language (russian here)? why generalize instead of saying "i can`t find proper words for this or that" or "it doesn`t fit my mentality"?

" Game in one gate "?... Probably I avoided development of relations with women who lifted similar questions " about a gate ", in a context about " reciprocity of feelings "... " Another's women " are not interesting to me, so the woman who with me, itself makes this choice...

there is no any question what was lifted, just side note on remark "woman needs to be loved", general statement outside of linguistics.
i am not interested in how you developed relations with women. But your words even without "language of zen" have smth to tell
An how this one ->

And about " dead Russian " - for example, on Korean the word "window" is meant with " a small door ", but and Russian you can track "derivative", and now imagine, as the attitude to same "subject" in mentality of the Korean and Russian person differs...

correlates with this one ->

Than more primitively range " opportunities of this or that language ", the more primitively and faculty mentality (without insults - a pure statement of the fact) . And a history of Russia - direct acknowledgement to that... Because of " mentality of heads " people constantly pays " the big victims " - during all times of Russia... And same " mentality of people " gives it such "heads"...

and now imagine, as the attitude to same "subject" in mentality of the
Korean and Russian person differs...

roam through this subforum and you`ll find out several threads what raised the question about language, culture and their mutual influence.
There is nothing tragical in such difference itself, but the "derivatives" of
this difference is another complex story %)

But it only my opinion and my attitude, do not forget it... I do not have desire " to change Russian " and etc....
P.S. If you will closely read that I here have written will find answers to all your questions and even, that " I am present at a forum of this site not for disputes ", and for an exchange of those or other opinions...

i am aware that this is your opinion and it was clear that you are not
intended to change russian language...
there are not many answers so far, and i re-read your posts every time when
write a new one; besides, i am not convinced that you know what zen is above the words which used to describe it.
and i still don`t see the answer to the "dead language question".
And we are not into debate yet, rather two monologues which cross at some points

You speak about that or about it, is unimportant about what, it is important for you to express the idea...

not quite correct... Anyways, people usually don`t express ideas just for the sake of expressing, they want to be understood. If you want to be understood, be ready for a dialogue %)

The zen "is not deaf" to another's opinion... Simply " the another's opinion " is an opinion, and the Zen is a practice...

and you are not Zen ;) you just the one who expressed the opinion. What for? for the sake of expressing?

[PRIZMATIC]

The zen " blossoming in everyone " is good" a commercial course "... Well as you assert, that " it not so " you know such saying:
- The Buddha gives great punishment to people that they think that they have learnt Him... In this belief he leaves them up to their enlightenment "...
I can be glad only, that comprehended the Zen so the nature of revival, in our world it is a lot of. And Jesus Christ simply the baby before ours the world. Tomorrow any next Kashpirovsky, will start to sell " the charged books " and "medallions" from trays. And then, everyone will revive, with words " the Zen is "dust" before the great human genius ". I accept such relation to the Zen.
Me ask frequently - " you want, that you understood? "...
On what I usually answer - " who has told, what it is necessary? "...
About simple expression of ideas - " What for there is a rustle of a grass or an impulse of a wind? "
From the answer - " they existed long before occurrence of the person "...
Meditation - " Not all questions should be made, not all answers should be told "...