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Thread: Homosexuality VS Autism

  1. #1
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    Post Homosexuality VS Autism



    My reading on neurology, and particularily on the neurological causes of homosexuality, autism and other "abnormalities", have led me to believe that male homosexuality and autism are only the two extremities of the same phenomenon.

    Serious researches have shown that male homosexuality is inborn, and caused by a lack of testosterone in the mother's blood during pregnancy, or an excess of it if the baby is a girl. Given the fact that it is much easier for a woman to lack testosterone (a male hormone only found in low level in the female body), this explains the higher incidence of true, immutable homosexuality among men than women. Homosexuality among women is more often bisexuality, and can also often be explained by the closer emotional and affective ties that women are capable of.

    Autism has many possible causes. Like for homosexuality, there is a hereditary factor. And like for homosexuality, the influence of testosterone on the foetus is possibly the most important of all factors. The incidence of autism is also much greater among males, but contrarily to male homosexuality, it is not caused by a lack of testosterone but an excess of it. (note that some cases of autism, especially those involving mental retardation, are caused by brain damages or viral/bacterial infection of the brain).

    In other words, whereas a male homosexual's brain is too feminine due to a lack of male hormones during its formation, and thus experience the same feelings as a woman's brain, an autist's brain is too masculine, even for a man. This explains why women are less likely to become autistic, as their lower postnatal testosterone levels are always lower.

    Theoretically, it would thus be impossible for a male autist to be also homosexual or vice versa. However, female autists are quite likely to be homosexual, due to their overly masculinised brain.

    Grading scale

    In human psychology, nothing is black and white, but a long gradation of greys in between two theoretical extremities. In the same way as there are "hard-core" homosexuals, disgusted at the idea of touching somebody from the other sex, and bisexual who stand in between heterosuality and homosexuality, there are many levels of autism, from profound to slight.

    The more benign cases of autism are called high-functioning autism (HFA). An even lighter version is Asperger's syndrome (AS). Many resources don't make the differences between the two; however, the differences may well be like described below :
    Asperger's syndrome compared to high-functioning autism:
    • AS = Verbal IQ > Performance IQ; HFA = inverse
    • AS = motor clumsiness; HFA = motor skills can be an islet of ability
    • AS = can be very verbose; HFA = more often silent and withdrawn
    • AS = communicates in words; HFA = may communicate in simple gestures, especially as a young child
    • AS population average IQ usually higher than that of HFAs
    • AS = may be reported as having more interest in socializing; HFA = stereotypically reported as having less interest in socializing
    • AS = geeky, intellectual; HFA = "special," odd
    • AS = less noticeable stims; HFA = more noticeable stims
    • AS = fewer meltdowns and better sensory integration; HFA = more meltdowns and greater sensory integration dysfunction
    • AS = obsessive interests are more abstract and intellectual - conceptual systems; HFA = obsessive interests tend to be simple and concrete or systems based in the physical world

    On a scale of intensity, correlating to the masculinisation of the brain, we could grade human brain types like this (for men only) :

    Very masculine brain (high testosterone)
    Profound Autism
    Autism
    High-functioning Autism
    Asperger's Syndrome
    Neutral
    Slight Bisexuality
    Bisexuality
    Homosexuality
    Profound Homosexuality
    Very feminine brain (low testosterone)

    The scale for women is more difficult to establish, as homosexuality correlates a bit with autism, or is completely unrelated (in the case of female affection, charm and sensuality playing between two female individuals).

    Neutrality is of course also a theoretical case. Everyone (at least every man) probably has an inclination in one way of another. Less sociable, less fashionable, more "geeky" and logical tend more on the autist side (even if they are not autistic), while very talkative, fashionable men always hanging out with friends or gossiping are more likely on the other side (even if they are straight). Of course there are always exceptions, and it is certainly possible for some on the geeky side to be gay as well, although probably rarer. One explanation is that autism can be caused by testosterone levels after birth, while homosexuality is more generally induced before birth.

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    That makes a lot of sense, especially in view that most of the more masculine men have a greater tendency to focus. That is both a good thing and a bad thing, as a man in one moment may only be able to focus on some action he dislikes in his wife, and thus beats her up, when in fact, there are many things about his wife that he loves, but in his anger, he is unable to think of the entire picture.

    Men generally have a better ability to focus on one thing at a time, which some theorize is the reason why there are more male mathamaticians. A female is better at looking at the bigger picture, or calling in more parts of her brain to analyze a problem.

  3. #3
    suirai
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    Maciamo, before I take on this challenge may I ask if you have a degree in any field of medicine? Thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by suirai
    Maciamo, before I take on this challenge may I ask if you have a degree in any field of medicine? Thank you.
    I could but didn't have time. Any way degrees are just a piece of paper. People who really like learning don't need them.

    What's more, most doctors in medicine are only practinioners, not researchers. Doctors in medicine also typically lack knowledge in psychology (except psychiatrists). I was shocked to see that Asperger's Syndrome was not recognised in France, which is probably why I had never heard of it until finding about it on the Internet (in English). In other words, someone diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome in the UK or the USA is considered either "normal" in France (and I suppose many other countries as well). This shows that medical doctors are sometimes too narrow-minded and conservative to envisage new possibilities (that they haven't learnt at university).

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    Here is an article that suggests the exact opposite. There's a link to some tests there too. I'm still reading...

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    I have taught several students with a variety of Persistent Development Disorders (PDD's- the family of disorders that contains Autism) including students with Autism and Aspergers (which is really really strange.)

    I never connected the disorder to homosexuality and I was under the impression that the field of psychology no longer considers homosexuality a disorder.

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    Well, I suppose it depends what you mean by "disorder".
    Maciamo also said in his OP: "homosexuality, autism and other "abnormalities"" (my bold type; Mac's inverted commas).
    By which I inferred that he was making that distinction that not everything attributable to such biological cause like difference in hormone levels and such, can be said to be an "abnormality". I think it's important to make the distinction; of course it is obvious when you think about it, but it's surprisingly easy when talking scientifically... like, people ask questions like "is homosexuality a genetic predisposition?" or "is it caused by this?" or "is it caused by that?" and so on... and it's possible to find, getting involved in such thoughts, to consider as a something that can be "cured" - implying that it's a "disorder"... which view would be very offensive to homosexual people...

    Anyway about this whole thing of the link between homosexuality and autism... very interesting post... I have not yet had time to think properly about it... I'll try and return when I've had a little sleep!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabro
    I have taught several students with a variety of Persistent Development Disorders (PDD's- the family of disorders that contains Autism) including students with Autism and Aspergers (which is really really strange.)
    I never connected the disorder to homosexuality and I was under the impression that the field of psychology no longer considers homosexuality a disorder.
    I believe that most people with Asperger or Autism do not consider that they have a disordered or should be "cured" (from what I read on the Net). Many consider it as a different personality type, a different way of seeing the world...

    For me, it would be highly illogical to consider one a disorder and not the other. I prefer to say that neither are disorders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    For me, it would be highly illogical to consider one a disorder and not the other. I prefer to say that neither are disorders.
    I agree. At first I balked at your use of the word 'abnormality', except that I supposed your inverted commas meant that it was for want of a better word. 'Personality types' seems the most neutral term.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    I could but didn't have time. Any way degrees are just a piece of paper. People who really like learning don't need them.
    Yet, somehow I have trouble imagining you undergoing heart surgery from a guy who never graduated medical school......

    I was shocked to see that Asperger's Syndrome was not recognised in France
    Not really directly related to anything, but....Did you ever notice a podiatrist in Japan?

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    Okay, I question my best friend and Older cousin about this who happen to be Homosexual and this is what their responses are:

    Best friend: I thought it was interesting. This theory make sense in it's own way, but I'm not entierly sure if the person who wrote this understands how testosterone actually works, or if he even knows that sexual orientation opperates on a spectrum just like autism.
    Because from my experiance and understanding, testosterone doesn't effect sexuality or autism at all, just the potency of sexual urges, dominance, and aggression (which can be seen in varying individual degrees in both gays, bisexuals, and straight men alike). Most autistic people I've worked with don't show much neurological influence from testosterone, in fact I've learned that most autisics end up being asexual due to a lack of romantic interest.
    Essentially my experiance with homosexuality and autism is quite the opposite from what this guy is theorizing. But I understand his point of veiw.

    My response: For me having Autism he does have a point, I happen to be Demisexual

    Older cousin: I don't think that's accurate. Whatever causes it, we would know already. It's possible though. :/

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    That's very interesting. Thanks for the insides Twilight, and welcome to Eupedia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    That's very interesting. Thanks for the insides Twilight, and welcome to Eupedia.
    Why thank you, it's very nice to meet you too LeBrok :) You are most welcome ;)

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Pre-natal hormone levels is used as an explanation to Gender Identity Disorder ("transsexualism") too. But if true, it can not also explain homosexulaity, because transsexuals can be hetero, homo or neither, like the rest of the population. For transsexuals or transgendered people, it's the sex of the brain that is in conflict with the physical sex, it has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubbe View Post
    Pre-natal hormone levels is used as an explanation to Gender Identity Disorder ("transsexualism") too. But if true, it can not also explain homosexulaity, because transsexuals can be hetero, homo or neither, like the rest of the population. For transsexuals or transgendered people, it's the sex of the brain that is in conflict with the physical sex, it has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
    Exactly my observations and science more and more points to this genetic screwup. Most gays could be physically described as female brain in man's body.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Exactly my observations and sciencemore and more points to this genetic screwup. Most gays could be physicallydescribed as female brain in man's body.
    I don't agree. My point is that while transsexuals/transgendered people experience themselves to be males or females in the wrong body, and have every kind of sexual orientation, gays and lesbians are attracted to the same sex but otherwise experience themselves to be males and females. That "straight" people can see some of the gays as very feminine and some of the lesbians as very masculine is another matter. I have also seen some pretty "homo" guys that are in fact heterosexuals, and also some very masculine women, who are not lesbians. I think the way People SEEM TO BE is only the wide range that humans can express their persona. Sexual orientation and transsexuality/transgenderness are quite something else. I know both homosexuals and transgendered people, so I know the difference between them.

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    Since I am gay myself and have Asperger and are in many way very masculine in the way I behave. Sure I do have some homosexual friends, bur most people I hang out with are straight males. Okay in one way I am very gay and not so Asperger, cause I like to shop clothes and I am very good at it. But I also have a Master of Science in Engineering, I have studied neuropsychology and have quite good knowledge about the brain. There have been some studies on homosexual men and females that in the hypotalamus showed the same pattern which there is a hypothesis that it could be linked to sexual orientation, personally I believe it could be so. Lack of testerone has nothing to do with sexual orientation what is known for the moment. There are also some studies that has shown that there are several more homosexuals or transgenders with Asperger then there are neurotypicals that are homosexual. I think the same thing goes for people with adhd, and the difference between the genes could be one huge explanation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnevi View Post
    Since I am gay myself and have Asperger and are in many way very masculine in the way I behave. Sure I do have some homosexual friends, bur most people I hang out with are straight males. Okay in one way I am very gay and not so Asperger, cause I like to shop clothes and I am very good at it. But I also have a Master of Science in Engineering, I have studied neuropsychology and have quite good knowledge about the brain. There have been some studies on homosexual men and females that in the hypotalamus showed the same pattern which there is a hypothesis that it could be linked to sexual orientation, personally I believe it could be so. Lack of testerone has nothing to do with sexual orientation what is known for the moment. There are also some studies that has shown that there are several more homosexuals or transgenders with Asperger then there are neurotypicals that are homosexual. I think the same thing goes for people with adhd, and the difference between the genes could be one huge explanation.
    Interesting, welcome to Eupedia.
    One comment, it might be the case that it is easier for people with Asperger to disregard social covenants and peer pressure, therefore stay true to their sexuality. Other words more gays with Asperger will come out off the closets than in the rest of society. The gays without neurological problems might care more what other people think of them.
    In this case there might not be much of genetic connection between Asperger and Sexual orientation.

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