Politics Should Turkey Join The EU?

The "modern" and "free" contemporary Turkey, where freedom of speach is of upmost value.

Netherlands grants asylum to ex-judge charged in Turkey


"A former Turkish judge who says he was prosecuted for his views on the fate of Armenians and Kurds has been granted asylum in the Netherlands.
Cagatay Cetin, who is of Armenian-Kurdish descent, claimed asylum after arriving in the country in January last year.
Charges against him in Turkey include forging documents and false accusation.
The Dutch government refused to say why Cetin had been granted asylum, adding it did not comment on individual cases.
Turkey has prosecuted individuals who describe the mass killing of Armenians in the early 20th Century as genocide.
Mr Cetin says he did "insult Turkish identity" - a criminal offence according to Article 301 of the country's penal code - by saying a genocide of Armenians had happened, his lawyer in the Netherlands, Marq Wijngaarden, told BBC News Online.
Mr Wijngaarden said his client had been accused under Article 301.
"He was interrogated on this accusation by a Dutch court, at the request of the Turkish prosecutor," he added.
Mr Cetin admits he left Turkey under a false passport, his lawyer said, but insists he did not forge documents or make false accusations."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13467865

But in the mind of Turkey they won't get in EU because they are a muslim country and EU is a "christian" club.
 
I don't think Turkey will ever join the European Union, just way to many important European countries are against.
The most populair excuse would be that it isn't even inside Europe at all, but rather Asia.
Another excuse would be that they're afraid that a lot of Turkies will move to West-Europe for work, getting flooded by non-native language speakers, who wouldn't accept the countries cultural values.
A problem which a lot of politicians discuss every day in especially West-Europe.
 
Well that may be the excuses or justifications given but it is not really about a lot of Turks moving into Europe for work, there are already a lot of Turkish immigrants inside Europe and with very little problems, culturally, linguistically or otherwise. Plus there are labour shortages in Europe which Turkish membership in the EU would help to fill.

The real reason that larger EU countries like France and Germany block Turkish membership is because France and Germany are the biggest manufacturers of weapons in the EU and whilst Turkey and Greece are at each others throats there is much money to be made in the sale of submarines, ships, planes, helicopters and arms etc. Greece, for example, is in favour of Turkey joining because it will put and end to the endless squabbling and territorial incursions into Greek air and sea space but the larger countries continually block the move.
 
Antigone said:
Well that may be the excuses or justifications given but it is not really about a lot of Turks moving into Europe for work, there are already a lot of Turkish immigrants inside Europe and with very little problems, culturally, linguistically or otherwise. Plus there are labour shortages in Europe which Turkish membership in the EU would help to fill.

The real reason that larger EU countries like France and Germany block Turkish membership is because France and Germany are the biggest manufacturers of weapons in the EU and whilst Turkey and Greece are at each others throats there is much money to be made in the sale of submarines, ships, planes, helicopters and arms etc. Greece, for example, is in favour of Turkey joining because it will put and end to the endless squabbling and territorial incursions into Greek air and sea space but the larger countries continually block the move.
Click to expand...

Nah, I don't think so!
First of all, and please be honest, do you really think that Greeks want Turkey in the EU because it stops their military aggression? What does it change for Turkey if Aegean territory is in the EU or not?
And secondly, even though the German arms industry will of course get hurt if the exports drop -like actually any army if there's peace- it's influence on the German government is not that high as it might seem. The arms export contributes about 1% of the German GDP (with about again 1/4 of it to Turkey and Greece). Basically the goal of any government is to create economic stability in all regions, which can only be preserved by reduction of any conflicts. So peace in the Aegean would create a higher benefit than the export of arms, especially as it's a region within the EU.
Also I have never heard about a serious debate of keeping Turkey outside of the EU for THIS reason.
 
Exactly Mzungu, not sure why people still believe that weapon industry have such big influence over governments and dictate polices.
It's been proved again and again in last century, that peaceful coexistence and economic cooperation between nations does more good for citizens than benefiting from arm sales and making wars. In majority of countries arm industries are 1% or less GDP. They don't have much of a voice in general politics.
 
Antigone said:
Not even Greece anymore, the older generation still cling to the church but the younger generations are as disillusioned with organised religion as the rest of Europe. Churches are empty except for a handfull of the elderly and if asked, the majority of younger people would describe themselves as athiest.
Click to expand...

I don't agree 100%. Churches are empty of young people, but only a few describe themselves as atheist. They do when they are at their teen years, but after the age of 20 I have met very few people who don't believe in God. I think that the majority of teenagers just call themselves atheist just because during teen years they want to feel special and rebel against their parents. When their hormones balance out they believe again!
 
It wasn't teenagers I was thinking of actually as they are too young to know their own mind fully. It was my children and their sphere of friends and aquaintances, both where we live and away at their universities and the age range is from 24 and over. Very few would admit to believing in God. That, as you say, may still change later (for some) when marriage and children come along but even so, the church will never again see the devotion to which it became accustomed and which the older generations display.

The younger generations are well educated, articulate and are able to think for themselves, thus the control and power of the church over the population of Greece has been broken, finally.
 
As a Turk, I'm against. We don't need the E.U., we grow up very fast and need no union or alliance. Turkey is a secular republic but I think that the government must work more on this and be more laic. When Erdogan is gonna leave the position of prime minister, I think & hope that Turkey will be a better country... I think that Turkey should stop those "muslim" relations with so called "muslim BROTHER countries" It makes me sick... I'm against, Turkey should return to former values of Atatürk. Peace!
 
I definetely don't want Turkey to join E.U,it's completely nonsense and baseless.Neither Europans nor Turks want this.
 
The EU should suspend all current membership applications until 2015 or at least before the current crisis is sorted. The founding fathers technique to allow peace to prosper was to intertwine the members destinies so closely war would not be possible anymore. We see the damage that naive thinking has done. The EU is a monster with many heads and no brains, and no nervous system to coordinate her. She is a Frankenstein creature on the loose. EU, Eurozone, NATO, ECB, absolutely nothing makes sense. Allowing Turkey to join would be risking a major upheaval from an economic, political and cultural point of view. We're still struggling to come to terms with the previous enlargement, and it might take a generation to realize if it was successful or not. To add my 2 cents to the previous posts of this link, I think modern Europe has herself inspired from Christian values, and from Renaissance and the French revolution to develop into her current form.
 
If we are to take in the account of history, culture, population genetics and geopolitics Turkey has much in common with Europe and therefor these aspects should not be turned in to arguments against Turkey's EU accession talks. How ever Turkey still has to improve certain aspects of human rights for all her citizens as well as minorities. As a Turk I can say that there has been immense improvement and progress in these aspects but is it enough? of course not and there is still much work to be done.

I've also been encountering certain economic reasoning against Turkey's EU accession process which I don't entirely agree with. I think this reasoning whether positive nor negative would depend on the certain perspective of the individual. If you compare Turkey with the engine economies of Europe, those industrial states such as France, England and Germany than Turkey does lag behind whether its gdp per capita nor total gdp but when compared with Eastern European countries that are in the EU such as Romania, Bulgaria or Poland than at this point I can say that there is not much of a difference. Turkey is even more developed than some of these states located in Eastern and Southern Europe. I think it would also be important to remind the fact that historically Turkey has not been affected by Renascence nor the Industrial revolution. Plus more than %90 of Turkey's population was doing agriculture during the foundation of the republic back in 1923. So it wouldn't be so bad to take a step back in to history and grasp where Turkey has actually risen from in recent years... compared to some European countries I think there has been great progress (in the modern meaning of the word) both socially and economically within the years. I am expecting that these will continue further once we are part of the EU, which we'll eventually join one day.
 
I continue to see the thing from a more economical and geopolitical point of view.

Genetical, "civilizational" and religious arguments, really are not of my taste, although I agree that in the long term are unavoidable and important for some people.

The truth is that given the current economical evolutions in Southern Europe, I feel pretty vindicated by reality, that the best that Turkey could experience was to be so far rejected for entering the European Union, and unexpectedly for many (and probably the Turks themselves) by pure luck, obtained the best deal: They were forced to reform their economy, but then, they were not entramped in the same way the Greek, the Italians and the Spaniards... they retained full control of their monetary policy and other elements of economic policy, and here are the results...

Turkey Growth Outpaces China Piling Pressure on Central Bank

By Steve Bryant and Selcuk Gokoluk -




Turkey’s economic growth accelerated to 11 percent in the first quarter, outpacing China’s and adding to the pressure on the central bank to rein in a credit-driven boom that may threaten financial stability.

The state statistics office in Ankara announced the figures today, at the same time it reported a record trade deficit for May. Growth in the quarter was faster than in any other member of the Group of 20 developed economies. The median estimate in a Bloomberg survey of 13 economists was 9.7 percent, and the previous quarter’s growth rate was 9.2 percent. China’s economy grew 9.7 percent in the first quarter.

Central bank Governor Erdem Basci says the boom poses risks to stability as the current-account deficit widens to record levels. Basci’s solution has been to impose limits on bank lending without raising interest rates, a move he says would strengthen the currency and hurt exports. Pressure for a more orthodox response may escalate after today’s figures.

The first-quarter boom “underlines the need for monetary tightening in the future, along the lines of conventional interest-rate moves,” Nigel Rendell, an economist at RBC Capital Markets in London, said in e-mailed comments. This is “very strong growth in a world where economic growth is all too frequently lacking.”
The lira fell 0.2 percent to 1.6247 at 11:30 a.m. in Istanbul. Yields on benchmark two-year lira bonds fell 3 basis points to 9.17 percent.
Election Win

The economy grew 1.4 percent from the previous quarter, according to seasonally adjusted figures announced today. That was slower than the 3.6 percent quarter-on-quarter growth in the last three months of 2010.
The expansion in the $735 billion economy helped Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan win a third term in national elections on June 12. Budget spending, excluding interest payments on debt, rose an annual 12 percent in first five months of the year, faster than the 8 percent growth that the government plans for 2011.
Basci is seeking to rein in the boom using bank reserve requirements rather than interest-rate increases that may lure more short-term cash to the country, strengthen the currency and further weaken exports already hurt by the slowdown in Europe, Turkey’s main market.

The 12-month current-account gap more than doubled from a year earlier to $63.4 billion in April, the most since records began in 1984 and equivalent to about 9 percent of GDP. The monthly trade gap rose to a record $10 billion in May, the government statistics office said today.
Click to expand...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...th-accelerated-to-11-in-first-quarter-1-.html

So far, after all that have been said and done, apart from speculations about "Europeaness" or not of Turkey... Turks live better today, and I hope it will continue to be so in the medium term.

Regards.
 
1 moment vision might be all the words,

make your own conclusions,

Turkey must enter EU but after kicking such guys like Bagis who are born with 'superiority of race' and are 'over' the dirty pig eaters Europeans,

Racism against Racism?

a well known Dutch racist vs a Turk racist,


I really wonder who is the true racist?
Europe that is not accepting or
Turkey that believes that Europe is pigs racists area,

I really wonder why at the last earthquake, at lake Van Turkey did not accept Help, while in the Earth quake of Anatolia did !!!!

the case is after Bahadir Baruter case, that he had a trial (I do not know the result) for just posting that
in the end, (there is no God) (yaziya Dikkat)
so there is no place for Atheists in Turkey,
since when an Atheist speaks no God, he insult Islam, and must go to trial,
so the Islamic (theocratic racists) VS European 'pure' race racists who do not want Turks,

just make your conclusions
Seek and hide of racism,
 
Yetos said:
Racism against Racism?

,
Click to expand...

Criticizing an ideology, be it a religion or a government type, is not racism, and should not be confused with each other. Religion is not bound by a certain group of people, a "muslim" is not a race as much as a "christian" is as much as a communist is.
 
you must accept Turkey eventually. can't you see the danger of eastern developing countries and oil-rich countries. Turkey stucked between east and west.You should persuade Turkey. Nowadays thoughts of turkish people have already started to change. They are questioning of being a member of EU is good or bad. 10 years ago greece was a potantial threat for turkey but today people just pity for greece or lots of EU members countries. Undoubtedly there are stronger rivals against EU and stronger Turkey. perfect 20th century has already gone. Open your eyes sleepy european people. you are sinking, your big and weak ship. two hundreds years ago you called Ottoman empire 'the sick man of Europe'. but i think next years you will be the 'the sick union of the universe'. EU has to use Turkey...
 
feanor said:
two hundreds years ago you called Ottoman empire 'the sick man of Europe'. but i think next years you will be the 'the sick union of the universe'. EU has to use Turkey...
Click to expand...

The Turkish want stong and independend country. They are partiots and very religious. They are proud of their history, of their wars for independence. And another one union (with EU) where developing and not rich countries play additional role (are source-oriented countries), is unacceptable for Turkey. It will build equal relations with the EU based on democratic principles and mutual respect. EU will fail to use Turkey because Turkey will use the EU!
 
No. It's largely not in Europe (the small piece of land in the west is not enough) and a entirely islamic state, doesn't fit to european culture, mentality etc., in my opinion. And I think that we have too many muslims in the EU. I see it as a threat for our european culture. And as far as I know most of the citizens of the EU are against a joining. But unfortunetly we Europeans will not be asked if Turkey should join or not.
 
Nordsee said:
No. It's largely not in Europe (the small piece of land in the west is not enough) and a entirely islamic state, doesn't fit to european culture, mentality etc., in my opinion. And I think that we have too many muslims in the EU. I see it as a threat for our european culture. And as far as I know most of the citizens of the EU are against a joining. But unfortunetly we Europeans will not be asked if Turkey should join or not.
Click to expand...
Islam is not a problem. Its not the middle ages where one can find religious converts. Islam is an unreformed religion and for most is not attractive. Christianity too is loosing followers. The problem with Turkey is its size. In 20 yrs time Turkey will be 100 mil people. Its hard to up bring that many people up to western standards. Turkey is actually two countries. 18 mil Kurds are not a minority regardless that Turkey calls them minority. 2OO 000 Slavisized Albanians call themselves Montenegrins and have a country, Kurds 20 mil are minority. With that size Turkey will have deputies in European Parliament as much as France, Poland,Albania, Macedonia and Kosovo taken together. That,s a lot of power. Accepting Turkey and living out Ukraine will be a hard decision. So, my opinion is that Europe needs the privileged partnership where Turkey will be.
 
Turkey is not a European country.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

This thread has been viewed 231825 times.

Back
Top