Paedophiles, Justice and prison sentences...

[Tokis-Phoenix]

A paedophile rapes a 6 year old child. The paedophile is caught and there is a huge amount of evidence stacked up against the paedophile for his crime, the paedophile is proven guilty and sent to prison and is punished.
What do you think is an adequate punishment or sentence for this paedophile in this particular scenario/poll and you general feelings of the justice system in your country?

[Tsuyoiko]

There is a similar thread here http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21228. That thread is more general than your specific scenario though.

[Hachiro]

I have children and if anyone of them was molested by a ped' they would have to lock me in prison for the things I would do to him.

The poll doesn't include options for torture and likewise treatment as a punishment before castration and death by being drawn and quartered.

There is no room in my mind for ped's in any way shape or form.

People will probably disagree with me and make their cases that people who are ped's are normal and have as much "right" to their forms of pleasure the same as any homo/heterosexual but I vehemently disagree and say that imo that anyone who thinks ped's have a place in any society deserve to be in prison with them as well.

I can not get anymore honest than that.

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I have children and if anyone of them was molested by a ped' they would have to lock me in prison for the things I would do to him.
The poll doesn't include options for torture and likewise treatment as a punishment before castration and death by being drawn and quartered.
There is no room in my mind for ped's in any way shape or form.
People will probably disagree with me and make their cases that people who are ped's are normal and have as much "right" to their forms of pleasure the same as any homo/heterosexual but I vehemently disagree and say that imo that anyone who thinks ped's have a place in any society deserve to be in prison with them as well.
I can not get anymore honest than that.

Even though i do not have children, i have to generally agree on your feelings in this situation.
The reason why i put castration as an option though, is because i believe that paedophiles have a chemical imbalance in their brain that makes them sexually attracted to children instead of people their own age. The sex drive is one of the most powerful instincts in the human body and mind, and is incredibly hard to get rid of it- this is why i believe that so many paedophiles that come out of prison after serving their sentence, only go to re-offend somewhere down the line again. If you remove the testicles, you basically remove the sex drive for the most part- and to be honest, i dont think that paedophiles should have the right to raise children of their own anyways if they offend.
There's a close line between human rights and punishment/justice with people, i was tempted to add torture as an option, but this is more about what you believe is an adequate or good solution or justice to an offending paedophile, and torture itself is a lowly barbaric act that will often only further psychologically mess up the individual- so as much as i honestly would want to torture a paedophile if he raped one of my children, i don't see it as much of a solution if any.

[Tsuyoiko]

People will probably disagree with me and make their cases that people who are ped's are normal and have as much "right" to their forms of pleasure the same as any homo/heterosexual but I vehemently disagree and say that imo that anyone who thinks ped's have a place in any society deserve to be in prison with them as well.

I do disagree with you, but I can understand why you feel so strongly. I don't see what torturing a paedophile would achieve, except to indulge a victim's desire for revenge. I think it would be much more constructive for the victim to get some kind of compensation (not necessarily financial) from the criminal. I've never heard anyone say that paedophiles are normal and have a right to abuse children. It seems more likely to me that they are criminally insane and should be treated as such.

[Hachiro]

I do disagree with you, but I can understand why you feel so strongly. I don't see what torturing a paedophile would achieve, except to indulge a victim's desire for revenge. I think it would be much more constructive for the victim to get some kind of compensation (not necessarily financial) from the criminal. I've never heard anyone say that paedophiles are normal and have a right to abuse children. It seems more likely to me that they are criminally insane and should be treated as such.

Thank you for saying that, I appreciate your honesty.

Personally I think that if torture or an "absolute" pushiment was mandated it would also help to serve as a deterent.


There is no compensation, IMO, that would suffice for victims of abuse such as this. The scars remain for a lifetime. What "lifetime" scars could one give to such a person that committed such a crime that would affect them in the same manner as their victim?

[Tsuyoiko]

Personally I think that if torture or an "absolute" pushiment was mandated it would also help to serve as a deterent.

I seriously doubt that any deterrent will prevent a paedophile from abusing a child. The hatred felt towards them by the general public, the beatings they often get from other prisoners (and probably guards), the threat of being placed on the sex offenders register - all these seem like pretty strong deterrents, but they don't seem to work at all. It might be a better deterrent if they thought they were more likely to get caught. Perhaps we should be educating children to know what is inappropriate, but how that would be possible I can't begin to imagine.

There is no compensation, IMO, that would suffice for victims of abuse such as this. The scars remain for a lifetime. What "lifetime" scars could one give to such a person that committed such a crime that would affect them in the same manner as their victim?

I agree, no compensation would ever be adequate. But I'm not convinced that revenge would truly assuage those feelings either. I think the desire for revenge is a negative emotion, and I don't believe that indulging in negative desires is psychologically healthy in the long run.

[yidaki]

There's too many options in the poll.

I think we need to define "pedophile".
There's a huge difference between getting turned on by underage people and going out raping them.
I mean, heterosexuals don't go out raping people, so why should pedophiles do it.
Sexual preference is not a crime.

Child molesters are ofcourse despicable,
but there's a different question there that complicates matters.
Are they really sane enough to go to prison?
If a child molestor is sane, that means that it's sane to molest children.
So logically, a child molestor should go to a mental asylum.
And in sweden, that's about the only way you can get 'life',
if you're irreparable psychologically, you'll never get out.
Which is smart ofcourse, because sane people shouldn't be in asylums.
And the point of punishment of criminals in sweden is not to take out revenge on the criminal, that's pointless. The idea is to discourage others from committing the same crime, socialise the members of society into what's right and wrong, show them the sanctions of their behaviour.

[KrazyKat]

While I agree with what Yidaki says above, we can find that we were given a definition, in a way, at the beginning of the thread ie. someone convicted of raping a 6 year old. Also, of course and unfortunately, some heterosexuals do 'go out and rape people'

A paedophile rapes a 6 year old child. The paedophile is caught and there is a huge amount of evidence stacked up against the paedophile for his crime, the paedophile is proven guilty and sent to prison and is punished.

I would also like to put my opinion towards avoiding punishment in the name of revenge. Thinking about your own children or those of your friends being molested make make one angry, but I think situations like this have to be looked at objectively. Personally I think the mental asylum suggestion above holds some weight, as well, of course, as the victim recieving compensation.

[Hachiro]

If a child molestor is sane, that means that it's sane to molest children.
So logically, a child molestor should go to a mental asylum.

I'm sorry I can not agree with that logic, to me it is flawed.

Think about this is, murder an act of a sane person? Sometimes yes sometimes no, by using your thought line then it is sane for someone to commit the act of murder, therfore logically a murderer should go to a mental asylum correct?

In the first line here, if a child molester is sane........using that logic any crime against any person could be justified and noone would ever be crimminally responsbile for their actions.

[yidaki]

[_ _ _]
Think about this is, murder an act of a sane person?
[_ _ _]

Exactly, murder is usually done by people who aren't psychologically stable.
When it's an accident, or 'crime of passion', it's not murder but manslaughter.

People who plan to murder someone for months/yrs, and then go through with it,
are crazy. Just look at the assassins of JFK and John Lennon.

I'm not sure where that puts soldiers of war,
but it's no wonder they need eternal therapeutic consolation.
Killing someone is not a small ordeal.

Considering how society wants to sanction child molestation and murderers,
they are equal in severity and should go to the same place;
which imho is an institution for the criminally insane.
Sending insane people to prison is useless,
they won't learn anything by it,
and it would make it ok to send children to prisons aswell.

[Hachiro]

Considering how society wants to sanction child molestation and murderers,they are equal in severity and should go to the same place;
which imho is an institution for the criminally insane.
Sending insane people to prison is useless,they won't learn anything by it,
and it would make it ok to send children to prisons aswell.

Then what would you do with them?

[yidaki]

Then what would you do with them?

With who? Children who commit crimes?
To a juvenile correction facility,
where they are socialised into society like proper adults.

Insane people usually go to asylums.
Sane people don't go to asylums.
So when an insane person is corrected to fit the standard of society, he gets out. That's why it can be a life sentence, some people just never learn.

Sending a murderer to prison for 15yrs,
means that you'll have a murderer coming out of prison in 15yrs.
It doesn't help anyone.

Child molestors probably have some deep issues to deal with, being molested themselves, seeing it as normal, loving, behaviour. They need help. As do the children ofcourse, so that they don't become traumatised and go out to become sinister adults themselves.

[SortOf]

Pedophile in my definition would be having intimate relations with anyone under 14-15 years of age. If the younger party consents I dont see a large problem with it, unless that is they are under the age listed above. Its pretty common in many latino countries for girls to get married at 12-13, although I think that is exceptionally pushing the limits.

I may stand alone on this but im one person in general who thinks that sex crime punishments are in general extremely to harsh, 20-60 years for a rape is somewhat insane, I think 2-5 is more acceptable.

[Hachiro]

I may stand alone on this but im one person in general who thinks that sex crime punishments are in general extremely to harsh, 20-60 years for a rape is somewhat insane, I think 2-5 is more acceptable.

Ok then what would do do in the case of repeat offenders? Seems to me that I read somewhere that the majority of sex offenders will repeat their crimes. Also that most sex related crimes are not about sex, but power.

I also remember hearing and reading somewhere that sex offenders when placed in prisons need to be kept out of the general population because they are considered to be the lowest of the low in the hierarchy of criminal's.

[SortOf]

Ok then what would do do in the case of repeat offenders? Seems to me that I read somewhere that the majority of sex offenders will repeat their crimes. Also that most sex related crimes are not about sex, but power.
I also remember hearing and reading somewhere that sex offenders when placed in prisons need to be kept out of the general population because they are considered to be the lowest of the low in the hierarchy of criminal's.

Double the sentence with each offence, 3 strikes your out.

If a 15yr old has sex with a 13yr old though, does that make them a paedophile too though? Some children go through puberty as young as 9 years old, sometimes even younger. The way i see it, until you are 13 you are still essentially a child, and then afterwards you become a teenager, and so forth. But would you consider a 15yr old a paedophile if they have sex with somone who is 2yrs younger than them or do they have to be alot older to be considered one, and if so, how old would somone have to be to be considered a paedophile for having sex with a 13yr old in your opinion? Is there any particular reason why you think a 2-5 year prison sentence is adequate or why a longer one is not ?

Because its not really a big deal. I mean the majority the good looking women get around alot anyway, and chance are an older married woman isnt going to be the target of a rapist to begin with!

For example, a prostitute gets raped? Honestly why would anyone care!? Most teenage girls who dress attractive enough to attract a rapist have 20+ boyfriends in there high school career, and probably even banged the bum down the street to. So why would it be such a major crime!? if I was a computer I would say "doesnt compute" maybe I have screwed up moral ethics, its just the way I see things.

Dont get me wrong women, there are many good moraled women out there, and usually its very rare that these women are targeted. I however sometimes laugh at those who do, walking around dressed half way like a stripper, and switching boyfriends every week, those women deserve it, its the devils revenge for there own sins!

This thread gets a:

[Hachiro]

In a way thread has gone off topic in some of its points but I hope the OP doesn't take offense at the "road" that it is headed on. In some respects the OP is related to rape as many ped's do actually "rape" their victims.

Double the sentence with each offence, 3 strikes your out.

In the mean time the predator leaves behind a victim each time. I'm sorry I can't agree to that, why give them the second and third chance. It isn't a white collar crime, it is a crime of violence. Oh yes and after the "third" strike what are you going to do? Put the offender on death row for 25 to 30 years at taxpayers expense? I hope not.

Because its not really a big deal. and chance are an older married woman isnt going to be the target of a rapist to begin with.

Tell that to the people that get raped that it isn't a big deal, I don't think you will find one person that was a victim that will agree with you. And maybe older women may not be the target but many are raped as well while 44% of the victims of rape are under the age of 18.
http://http://www.rainn.org/statistics/

For example, a prostitute gets raped? Honestly why would anyone care? Most teenage girls who dress attractive enough to attract a rapist have 20+ boyfriends in there high school career, and probably even banged the bum down the street to. So why would it be such a major crime? if I was a computer I would say "doesnt compute" maybe I have screwed up moral ethics, its just the way I see things.
Dont get me wrong women, there are many good moraled women out there, and usually its very rare that these women are targeted. I however sometimes laugh at those who do, walking around dressed half way like a stripper, and switching boyfriends every week, those women deserve it.[/

I hope you know the crap is going to fly, or should fly, with this statement. So by your logic it is ok for men to change "women" at leisure and for men to prey on women that work in the sex industries of this world as well? Is that a fair conclusion to make from this statement of yours? I hope that there are some women here on this board that would take the time to respond to this. I really would be interested in hearing how they view the issue.

Without men around to purchase, use, and abuse the women that you refer to there would be no problem whatsoever. So what do you do about that? I have yet to hear of a woman that would not give up doing such work if they had the means to make a decent living some other way. Have you?

To me at least your statements here smack of sexism.

I'm sorry but I can not agree with anything you wrote on this post.

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Pedophile in my definition would be having intimate relations with anyone under 14-15 years of age. If the younger party consents I dont see a large problem with it, unless that is they are under the age listed above. Its pretty common in many latino countries for girls to get married at 12-13, although I think that is exceptionally pushing the limits.

If a 15yr old has sex with a 13yr old though, does that make them a paedophile too though? Some children go through puberty as young as 9 years old, sometimes even younger. The way i see it, until you are 13 you are still essentially a child, and then afterwards you become a teenager, and so forth. But would you consider a 15yr old a paedophile if they have sex with somone who is 2yrs younger than them or do they have to be alot older to be considered one, and if so, how old would somone have to be to be considered a paedophile for having sex with a 13yr old in your opinion? Is there any particular reason why you think a 2-5 year prison sentence is adequate or why a longer one is not ?

[SortOf]

Im in general not a passionate person, women who work in the "sex industry" as you call it are lowly, freaking lazy bums, get a job somewhere, anywhere, even McDonalds would do. And im not sexist, men who sleep around also deserve to have there balls cut off, or spend a nice long night in a lonely jell cell with a large black man named bubba.

Im against cheating or sleeping around of any type in general, those who do are lower than the dirt stuck between my shoes.

[Hachiro]

Im in general not a passionate person, women who work in the "sex industry" as you call it are lowly, freaking lazy bums, get a job somewhere, anywhere, even McDonalds would do.
And im not sexist, men who sleep around also deserve to have there balls cut off, or spend a nice long night in a lonely jell cell with a large black man named bubba.

Ok so then working at McD's these women will earn enough to support a family and kids because their husband ran off with some other "younger" version? I dont think so.

You say you are not sexist, but from your previous post you basically wrote that, (para-phrasing here) they deserve what they got, and it isn't a big deal? So any guy that walks down the street in a tank top or shirt-less deserves to be raped or abused as well? Extend your logic to the "other" sex and then tell me that you are not being sexist please.

Sorry but that certainly smacks of sexism to me. So then all the guys that use hookers, and rape young victims should get their balls cut off huh? Geez kind of contradicting yourself don't you think. First you say they should only get 2-5 years in the joint right?

Society is mostly to blame for the socio-economic problems that literally force women into these types of situations wouldn't you think?

[SortOf]

The man who does the raping will of course go to hell as well, two sinners, like two peas in a pod. There is always a way to by, even if it means working around the clock at a fast food joint, applying the the government for help, pick tomatoes, beg for money on the street!

My parents were both dirt poor when I was born! My mother sure as hells fire didn't sink to being a prostitute nor did my father sink to being a THEIF! BOTH ARE COMPELLED BY LAZYNESS! Effort and hard work can avoid sinking and becoming a wad of trash, there is ALWAYS a way out you just have to look for it.

Contradicting myself? How am I? They should at least get it semi easy on earth since there going to burn for all eternity anyway, and there also punishing other sinners.

[Hachiro]

Contradicting myself? How am I? They should at least get it semi easy on earth since there going to burn for all eternity anyway, and there also punishing other sinners

Yes, imo you are contradicting yourself. So the victims have to suffer? Come on now, not everyone believes in an after life either.

My parents were both dirt poor when I was born! My mother sure as hells fire didn't sink to being a prostitute nor did my father sink to being a THEIF! BOTH ARE COMPELLED BY LAZYNESS! Effort and hard work can avoid sinking and becoming a wad of trash, there is ALWAYS a way out you just have to look for it

I'm sorry about your parents, but you can not assume that all people are the same. Society does not work that way. Also there is no need to "SHOUT" at me or anyone else to make your points. Not everyone has a "way" out, you are thinking about American's and American's only, the sex industry and this problem is world-wide, can't find too many McD's in Thailand or the P.I. for example. Take off the blinders and start thinking global and not myopically please. The "If there is a will there is a way" kind of thinking doesnt always work in the USA either.

The man who does the raping will of course go to hell as well, two sinners, like two peas in a pod. There is always a way to by, even if it means working around the clock at a fast food joint, applying the the government for help, pick tomatoes, beg for money on the street

So you blame the woman as well?

[Rich303]

The man who does the raping will of course go to hell as well, two sinners, like two peas in a pod.........since there going to burn for all eternity anyway, and there also punishing other sinners.

Wouldn't it be great if bad people went to hell and good people went to heaven? If only life was that simple.
Unfortunately it's not.

I think people just invent the idea of hell because they cannot get over the fact that people can be cruel / evil / 'sinners'(!), and they will get away with it. It might be comforting to think that all the 'sinners' will pay later, but I think it's just a fantasy. They used to tell people that if they didn't pay their tax to the church, that they would go to hell.

On the flip side, I am proud that as a non-religous person, I don't need the 'reward' of heaven to try to be a good person.

I don't believe in heaven or hell, it's just a theory that was invented long ago to help people make sense of the world.
Well, the world doesn't really make sense - deal with it!

[SortOf]

Chances are the victom was guilty of sin to begin with.

[Hachiro]

Chances are the victom was guilty of sin to begin with.

Now I know for sure that you are just ******** here. Bye Bye