Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Germanic mythology : Was Siegfried a Merovingian king ?

  1. #1
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    7,924
    Points
    556,014
    Level
    100
    Points: 556,014, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 79.0%


    Ethnic group
    Celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Post Germanic mythology : Was Siegfried a Merovingian king ?



    The veil between mythology and history is sometimes amazingly thin. Take for instance one of the heroes of Wagner's epic opera The Ring of the Nibelung : Siegfried, who married the valyrie Brynhildr. The two characters are thought to be the historic Sigebert I (535-575), Frankish king of the Austrasia (grandson of Clovis I), and his wife Brunhilda of Austrasia (circa 543 – 613). Sigebert was indeed murdered, but not by Odin as the legend has it (who would Odin be anyway ?).
    Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  2. #2
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    7,924
    Points
    556,014
    Level
    100
    Points: 556,014, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 79.0%


    Ethnic group
    Celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Arte TV had a special programme about the Nibelungen tonight.

    It appears that many elements of the legend have historical grounds. The events took place in the 5th century, around 435 C.E. Some names were changed (e.g. Attila the Hun is called Etzel in the legend).

    Although the fabulous treasure of the Nibelungs was never found in the Rhine, many specialists believe it existed and keep looking for it. One problem is that the Rhine of 1500 years ago was a series of very tortuous meanders, which have since become a straight line.

    At the time, the Burgundians (=the Nibelungs) frequently crossed the Rhine to plunder Gallo-Roman towns and villages. They brought back with them gold, silver, jewelry and other valuables. Roman ship patrols on the Rhine forced them to cross in small groups at different places to increase their chances. In the process, they typically cut the looted objects into equal portions.

    Some of these loots were found at the bottom of the Rhine, and notably also in a lake that once was on the trajectory of one of the river's meanders. The amazing find had hundreds of mutilated artifacts, now on display at the Historical Museum in Speyer.

    This proves that the hundreds of pillaging raids could very well have led to the accumulation of a fantastic treasure. The Burgundians were eventually defeated by the combined Roman and Hunnic armies in the Ardennes Forest of Gallia Belgica. The royal family was entirely wiped out, leaving the place of the hidden treasure lost forever.

    The Burgundians subsequently left the region of modern-day Worms and Speyer to settle in what was to become the Kingdom of Burgundy.

    What is interesting is that soon after the desmise of the Burgundians, it was the Franks who would become the dominant power in the region, defeating the Alemani, the Visigoths, the Burgundians and conquering what was left of Roman Gaul.

    How could this tribe that was frequently defeated by its neighbours suddenly reverse the course of history and give rise to the first truly European empire ? (see History of the Franks) Could it be that Siegfried of Xanten, had he been Frankish, told some Frankish friends about the place of Nieflheim, where the treasure was hidden ? After all, his hometown of Xanten was in Frankish territory.

    Another clue is that Clovis I, shortly after his conquest of Gaul (486), married Clotide, the daughter of the King of Burgundy. A secret arrangement may have taken place between them, involving the recovery of the Nibelungs' treasure.
    Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  3. #3
    Elite member Achievements:
    10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    spongetaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-01-11
    Posts
    706
    Points
    23,914
    Level
    47
    Points: 23,914, Level: 47
    Level completed: 37%, Points required for next Level: 636
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: France



    In the book The identity of France , Fernand Braudel explains the Strenght of the Franks by the fact that they owned what was the former kingdom of Syagrius (Northern Gaul) in which Gallo Roman culture civilization and stabilty had been preserved later than in the other parts of Gaul

  4. #4
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteran10000 Experience Points
    zanipolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-11
    Posts
    1,990
    Points
    18,648
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,648, Level: 41
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 302
    Overall activity: 5.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - A339
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1a4

    Country: Australia



    German mythology also states that the goths came from Skandia ( southern Sweden) and the langobards came from Scadan. The illyrians who as stated by this mthology are linked to the trojans settled on the adriatic around Lake Skadar in a city called Shkodra............an area the venetians and italians called Scutari , the Greeks called Scutarion and the slavs called Skadar.

    Hmmm.........are they all linked with the germanic mythology of germanic Skandia?

  5. #5
    Ulfheðinn Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    Thulean's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-11-13
    Location
    Darüber
    Age
    44
    Posts
    32
    Points
    1,668
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,668, Level: 11
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 182
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    coming soon
    MtDNA haplogroup
    coming soon

    Ethnic group
    Mortal
    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    German mythology also states that the goths came from Skandia ( southern Sweden) and the langobards came from Scadan. The illyrians who as stated by this mthology are linked to the trojans settled on the adriatic around Lake Skadar in a city called Shkodra............an area the venetians and italians called Scutari , the Greeks called Scutarion and the slavs called Skadar.

    Hmmm.........are they all linked with the germanic mythology of germanic Skandia?

    That wouldn't be surprising at all. The ethnic groups you mentioned are all indo-european, and share a common northern origin (before their dispersal from the pontic caspian steppe, that is). One proof for all: Paulus Diaconus in his famous Historia Langobardorum writes about the Longobards' main god, Wotan, stating that it was originally a greek (!) god. Hence the common northern origin of all indo-european folks.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    Nobody1's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-03-13
    Posts
    1,040
    Points
    5,756
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,756, Level: 22
    Level completed: 42%, Points required for next Level: 294
    Overall activity: 34.0%


    Country: Germany - Baden-Wurttemberg



    Quote Originally Posted by Thulean View Post
    That wouldn't be surprising at all. The ethnic groups you mentioned are all indo-european, and share a common northern origin (before their dispersal from the pontic caspian steppe, that is). One proof for all: Paulus Diaconus in his famous Historia Langobardorum writes about the Longobards' main god, Wotan, stating that it was originally a greek (!) god. Hence the common northern origin of all indo-european folks.
    The common Indo-European origins - the Urheimat of the Indo-Europeans - is usually placed (Archaeologically/Linguistically/Historically) in the Caspian-Pontic steppes [Sredny Stog/Khvalysnk > Yamna] and not Northern Europe; With the Indo-European (proto-proto Germanics) emerging out of the steppes with Globular Amphora and Corded-ware;

    Im not familiar with Paul the Deacon equating Wotan/Odin (in the Hitoria gentis Langobardorum Godan) with a Greek deity in BookI/VIII;
    However; historians usually equate the Mars and Merkur of the Germanic realm mentioned by Tacitus (Ann. XIII/LVII) with Thor and Wotan;

  7. #7
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    20-11-12
    Posts
    577
    Points
    3,220
    Level
    16
    Points: 3,220, Level: 16
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 230
    Overall activity: 19.0%


    Country: Canada



    Quote Originally Posted by Thulean View Post
    One proof for all: Paulus Diaconus in his famous Historia Langobardorum writes about the Longobards' main god, Wotan, stating that it was originally a greek (!) god. Hence the common northern origin of all indo-european folks.
    Interesting, all these words seem awfully similar to be a coincidence.
    English-god, German-gott, Albanian-zot, Greek myth - zeus, Norse myth - odin, Italian - dio.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    Nobody1's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-03-13
    Posts
    1,040
    Points
    5,756
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,756, Level: 22
    Level completed: 42%, Points required for next Level: 294
    Overall activity: 34.0%


    Country: Germany - Baden-Wurttemberg



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    The link between the
    Sanskrit Dyaus-Pita / Greek Zeus / Latin Dis-Pater(Diespiter/Jupiter) / Germanic Tiwaz / Baltic Dievas
    is the proto-Indo-European link of the common Urheimat;
    A remaining testimony of the Indo-European range from Europe-Indus-valley;

  9. #9
    Ulfheðinn Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    Thulean's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-11-13
    Location
    Darüber
    Age
    44
    Posts
    32
    Points
    1,668
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,668, Level: 11
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 182
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    coming soon
    MtDNA haplogroup
    coming soon

    Ethnic group
    Mortal
    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    The common Indo-European origins - the Urheimat of the Indo-Europeans - is usually placed (Archaeologically/Linguistically/Historically) in the Caspian-Pontic steppes [Sredny Stog/Khvalysnk > Yamna] and not Northern Europe; With the Indo-European (proto-proto Germanics) emerging out of the steppes with Globular Amphora and Corded-ware;

    Im not familiar with Paul the Deacon equating Wotan/Odin (in the Hitoria gentis Langobardorum Godan) with a Greek deity in BookI/VIII;
    However; historians usually equate the Mars and Merkur of the Germanic realm mentioned by Tacitus (Ann. XIII/LVII) with Thor and Wotan;

    Looking closer, things are not so simple and established.
    In fact, Paulus writes: »Wotan sane, quem adiecta littera Godan dixerunt, ipse est qui apud Romanos Mercurius dicitur et ab universis Germaniae gentibus ut deus adoratur; qui non circa haec tempora, sed longe anterius, nec in Germania, sed in Grecia fuisse perhibetur«.
    As you can see, Paulus himself accepts the equation Wotan/Godan=Mercurius, adding that »all Germanic peoples adore it as a god«; but he doesn't stop there, stating that Wotan »was believed to originate - not at the time I am writing about, but long before - not in Germania, but in Greece«.

    No question at all about the Caspian-Pontic steppes as Urheimat, Nobody1. But It seems there's much more to be said beyond that, not least the Caspian-pontic Urheimat as an "intermediate" Urheimat, since IE folks probably came from a more ancient Urheimat located somewhere else in the north. Northern Asia, not northern Europe, btw.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    Nobody1's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-03-13
    Posts
    1,040
    Points
    5,756
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,756, Level: 22
    Level completed: 42%, Points required for next Level: 294
    Overall activity: 34.0%


    Country: Germany - Baden-Wurttemberg



    Quote Originally Posted by Thulean View Post
    Looking closer, things are not so simple and established.
    In fact, Paulus writes: »Wotan sane, quem adiecta littera Godan dixerunt, ipse est qui apud Romanos Mercurius dicitur et ab universis Germaniae gentibus ut deus adoratur; qui non circa haec tempora, sed longe anterius, nec in Germania, sed in Grecia fuisse perhibetur«.
    As you can see, Paulus himself accepts the equation Wotan/Godan=Mercurius, adding that »all Germanic peoples adore it as a god«; but he doesn't stop there, stating that Wotan »was believed to originate - not at the time I am writing about, but long before - not in Germania, but in Greece«.
    Absolutely; and its right in the next Chapter I/IX;
    been a while since i have read the book - just remembered I/VIII;
    Paul the Deacon equates Wotan with Merkur but with which cult in Greece is he equating it to - is it Apollo or Hermes?

    The cult of Apollo (in his many forms) was immensely famous in the Roman realm; Hermes would explain the Merkur cult to originated in Greece;

    Do you know details of this artifact from the Langobarden?
    Friul (N Italy) / early 7th cen AD - depicts a golden rider (pos. Godan/*gudanaz)


    Quote Originally Posted by Thulean View Post
    No question at all about the Caspian-Pontic steppes as Urheimat, Nobody1. But It seems there's much more to be said beyond that, not least the Caspian-pontic Urheimat as an "intermediate" Urheimat, since IE folks probably came from a more ancient Urheimat located somewhere else in the north. Northern Asia, not northern Europe, btw.
    I posted some stuff on that in another thread a few days ago;
    Linguistics > Are the Uralic languages related to Altaic languages

    I do think that the steppes was the proper Urheimat in contrast to the proto-Uralic which was than further North; But both stemming from a common *proto- root;

  11. #11
    Ulfheðinn Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    Thulean's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-11-13
    Location
    Darüber
    Age
    44
    Posts
    32
    Points
    1,668
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,668, Level: 11
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 182
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    coming soon
    MtDNA haplogroup
    coming soon

    Ethnic group
    Mortal
    Country: Italy



    Thanks for your interesting info and questions, Nobody1. Today I'm in a hell of a mess with my job - I will be back tomorrow.
    Have a nice evening!

  12. #12
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    17-03-13
    Posts
    582
    Points
    4,550
    Level
    19
    Points: 4,550, Level: 19
    Level completed: 75%, Points required for next Level: 100
    Overall activity: 1.0%


    Country: Sweden



    Odin=Uldin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uldin Anthemio praefecto praetorio. Scyras barbaram nationem maximis chunorum, quibus se coniunxerunt, copiis fusis imperio nostro subegimus. ideoque damus omnibus copiam ex praedicto genere hominum agros proprios frequentandi, ita ut omnes sciant susceptos non alio iure quam colonatus apud se futuros nullique licere ex hoc genere colonorum ab eo, cui semel adtributi fuerint, vel fraude aliquem abducere vel fugientem suscipere, poena proposita, quae recipientes alienis censibus adscriptos vel non proprios colonos insequitur. Opera autem eorum terrarum domini libera utantur ac nullus sub acta peraequatione vel censui ...acent nullique liceat velut donatos eos a iure census in servitutem trahere urbanisve obsequiis addicere, licet intra biennium suscipientibus liceat pro rei frumentariae angustiis in quibuslibet provinciis transmarinis tantummodo eos retinere et postea in sedes perpetuas collocare, a partibus Thraciae vel Illyrici habitatione eorum penitus prohibenda et intra quinquennium dumtaxat intra eiusdem provinciae fines eorum traductione, prout libuerit, concedenda, iuniorum quoque intra praedictos viginti annos praebitione cessante. Ita ut per libellos sedem tuam adeuntibus his qui voluerint per transmarinas provincias eorum distributio fiat. Dat. prid. id. april. Constantinopoli Honorio viii et Theodosio iii conss. (409 apr. 12).
    It's interesting still that earlier authors give an A-variant and the later ones - E-variant like German Etzel or Hungarian Ethele.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    17-03-13
    Posts
    582
    Points
    4,550
    Level
    19
    Points: 4,550, Level: 19
    Level completed: 75%, Points required for next Level: 100
    Overall activity: 1.0%


    Country: Sweden



    ...the Volga Bulghars' tradition claims that the name of Attila was Audan. But there is no other source to confirm this. Except maybe the Scandinavian legend of Odin (Ódhinn) - according to Snorri he was a king who came from Tyrkland (land of the Turks) east of river Don. Recently I really came across a post somewhere in the net which suggests that Odin was in fact a Hunnic ruler - perhaps Uldin (ca. 395 - 410). Why not Attila-Audan? And maybe Bleda was the prototype of Baldr? (Just a wild thought!) Is it possible that the Norse myths are based on some obscure memory of real events from the Great Migration period? I have read somewhere (I think it was in O. Spengler's "Decline of the West") that there isn't any signs of the Odin's cult before that time.

  14. #14
    Ulfheðinn Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    Thulean's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-11-13
    Location
    Darüber
    Age
    44
    Posts
    32
    Points
    1,668
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,668, Level: 11
    Level completed: 40%, Points required for next Level: 182
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    coming soon
    MtDNA haplogroup
    coming soon

    Ethnic group
    Mortal
    Country: Italy



    Nobody1,

    as far as Wotan/Godan is concerned, I looked up the Historia Langobardorum: apparently Paulus does not propose identification with any greek god of the "classic" period. He only compares the germanic god with Mercurius. And the equation does not explain the following statement, where he writes that this "northern" god ultimately originates from Greece. So, either the Longobards brought the cult of Mercurius to their northern homeland, turning its name into Wotan/Godan (which seems quite absurd); or the Greeks and the Longobards originally share a common origin, which explains the similarities in their ancestral religion, language, usw.


    About the golden disc, I know it very well: it's from a Longobard tomb found in Cividale del Friuli, near where I live, and it's now kept in the Museo Archeologico Nazionale. Last time I went to pay a visit, I remember this artifact was so fascinating that I spent 15 minutes staring at it in amazement - my ex-girlfriend had to pull me away. Maybe the Reiter is not Wotan, though - usually Sleipnir was depicted having eight legs, not just the ordinary four. But I would be glad to be mistaken on this point.


    About the Urheimat, if I understand right you agree that the common proto-root of proto-Uralic and proto-IE can only mean a common origin, before the IE folks came to settle south in the steppes and then dispersed westward and eastward, splitting up in migrations towards the lands we now call India, Greece, Italy, Germany and so on.


    Take a look at "Uralic evidence for the Indo-European homeland", 2012, on the net (the Häkkinen guy rules!)


    I am collecting quite a bit of material from ancient authors and modern scholars that makes me rethink the mainstream notion of the original Urheimat. Where did the proto-IE folks originate before the copper age caspian-pontic steppes? Increasing evidence shows northwestern Asia / northeastern Europe was not at all covered in ice at the time. A few hints:


    »In modernity Scandinavia is a peninsula, but between approximately 10,300 and 9,500 years ago, the southern part of Scandinavia was an island separated from the northern peninsula, with water exiting the Baltic Sea through the area where Stockholm is now located« (quote from english wikipedia, page "Scandinavia", with references).


    »In 2002 the National Archaeologists of Sweden concluded their excavation of a complete city, measuring 1,8 x 1,0 km, excavated outside Hernosand in the very north of Sweden, by the Botnic Bay. The city was established 4.800 years BP, - doing regular trade with Finland and Carelia - as well as Russia, Poland, Germany and Denmark. Though; the reason for this establishment was the unique location by the big inland river-system, allowing for a safe and steady water-way passage, crossing the lowest point on the Scandinavian Mountain-ridge. This "short-cut" connecting the whole Baltic Ocean directly to the area of Trondelag, being the central area for the trade-culture that populated the shores of the North Atlantic, from Neolithic times - right into the Middle-ages.
    The old culture ("Kven-culture") and river-trade of the Northern hemisphere recessed permanently around the 1350s as a climatic catastrophe ("small ice-time") - helped by diseases - extinguished about 3/4 of the Fenno-Scandinavian population. The later restored trading-culture of the north ("Birkarla-culture") obviously chose a lower location when their trading with the west-coast Scandinavia was re-established.
    Not before the discovery of the 4.800 year old city - of trade and industrial production - at "Bjastamon" outside Hernosand, did anyone have a clue that there were cities existing in the Baltics - 1.300 years BEFORE Rome and Athens (!?!). There was even solid evidences of a large-scale, commercial home-production - as well as numberless items proving trade with distant countries...
    This "incredible" discovery is only one of many that today is shedding a completely new light on the history of the Baltics. Especially if we are able to understand the impact of the discovery that Fenno-Scandia -that today is seen only as a penninsula - used to be an island - in the Atlantic Ocean - at the size of todays Greenland«.


    There's much more to be said, but I strongly suspect that Tilak was right after all (with due corrections, obviously).

  15. #15
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points
    Nobody1's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-03-13
    Posts
    1,040
    Points
    5,756
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,756, Level: 22
    Level completed: 42%, Points required for next Level: 294
    Overall activity: 34.0%


    Country: Germany - Baden-Wurttemberg



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thulean View Post
    as far as Wotan/Godan is concerned, I looked up the Historia Langobardorum: apparently Paulus does not propose identification with any greek god of the "classic" period. He only compares the germanic god with Mercurius. And the equation does not explain the following statement, where he writes that this "northern" god ultimately originates from Greece. So, either the Longobards brought the cult of Mercurius to their northern homeland, turning its name into Wotan/Godan (which seems quite absurd); or the Greeks and the Longobards originally share a common origin, which explains the similarities in their ancestral religion, language, usw.
    The way i read it is that Paul the Deacon simply equates (like Tacitus) Wotan/Odin with Merkur and than goes on to say that this god was worshiped (existed) also long before in Greece (prob. drawing the connection to Hermes);

    Paul the Deacon - Historia gentis Langobardorum - I/IX
    worshiped by all the peoples of Germany as a god, though he is deemed to have existed, not about these times, but long before, and not in Germany, but in Greece

    Just one Mythological cult connected to another; Def. also the broader Indo-European root that connects it all; As is also the Indo-European Germanic tradition rec. by Tacitus of Tuisto and Mannus - which shows strong parallels to the Indo-European Aryans of the Indus-valley and Tvastar (RigVeda) and Manu;



    Quote Originally Posted by Thulean View Post
    About the golden disc, I know it very well: it's from a Longobard tomb found in Cividale del Friuli, near where I live, and it's now kept in the Museo Archeologico Nazionale. Last time I went to pay a visit, I remember this artifact was so fascinating that I spent 15 minutes staring at it in amazement - my ex-girlfriend had to pull me away. Maybe the Reiter is not Wotan, though - usually Sleipnir was depicted having eight legs, not just the ordinary four. But I would be glad to be mistaken on this point.
    Sleipnir is what makes me doubt it as well; But unlike other 'Warrior on Horseback' depictions of the Langobarden this has a very spiritual notion (at least seems to me);
    In comparison to the Reiter von Stabio (Langobarden - 7th cen AD)


    Sleipnir was also depicted with just four legs at Tängelgarda; Maybe it is maybe its not;

    Quote Originally Posted by Thulean View Post
    About the Urheimat, if I understand right you agree that the common proto-root of proto-Uralic and proto-IE can only mean a common origin, before the IE folks came to settle south in the steppes and then dispersed westward and eastward, splitting up in migrations towards the lands we now call India, Greece, Italy, Germany and so on.
    You understand right;
    This def. traces back to a common origin of both the proto-Uralic and proto-Indo-European;
    But this common *proto- Urheimat is still too abstract fpr me; thats why i personally only ref. to the proto-Indo-European root at 5500-3500 BC - acc. to Bryant and Mallory / Arsenic-Bronze ~4500 BC; which would place it Archaeologically in the Caspian-Pontic steppes (Sredny Stog / Khvalynsk > Yamna); Also that later Indo-Europeans such as the Cimmerians and Scythians were still emerging from it in the 1st mil. BC;

    Quote Originally Posted by Thulean View Post
    Take a look at "Uralic evidence for the Indo-European homeland", 2012, on the net (the Häkkinen guy rules!)
    Definately will;

Similar Threads

  1. Cornwall: King Artur's Land (Photos)
    By julia90 in forum UK & Ireland
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 09-03-12, 12:37
  2. Tony King.
    By Carlitos in forum Wacky lane
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 25-05-11, 23:13
  3. Homesick Samurai King, found in Cuba?
    By EdZiomek in forum History & Civilisations
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 27-02-08, 18:26

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •