Are men and woman equal

[moyashi]

I think that women can stand up to pain better than men can, too.

More complex ... hehe ... how frightfully true. Men are just "plain and simple beast" compared to women ... lolo ... Yes, I really think that about men.

[deborah gormley]

@ tariqfayyaz
thank-you for being so understanding

@

Physically women are superior as their body is more complex (can perform more functions)than men

this point of veiw I must agree with how-ever I have yet to meet a woman with the same physical upper strenght as a man, women have complex bodies because of thier unique fuctions, men are in my opinion just as unique,(one can't use its fuction properly without the other ) but its the upper physical strenght that sets the men apart in that feild, it comes naturally and it is used at times as a threat(unfortunately)against both sexs, here a man is superior

@

women can stand up to pain better than men

This I also agree with,, apparently (hehe) women have a greater pain barrier than men,??? this as far as I know is scentific fact,
please correct me if I am wrong!! it is apparently (hehe) due to the inner strenght that woman pocess, it was described to me once as follows " a great footballer gets a groin strain during a final match, he decides to try to run the pain off, and because of his stamina and physical ability it works, he plays on till the final whistle, then attends hospitals for months later to repair the damage" woman are said to be the stamina. lolol

[samuraitora]

I am not even getting into this discussion...my hands would cramp from writing too much...lOl

one thing..."GO WOMEN"...

[deborah gormley]

lol@ samuritora,, I'm still giggling at your sence of humour,, (brilliant)

[Alex]

I just read this entire thread and it's very interesting to read your views. Some I agree with and some I don't. (Sorry, Deb, some of us don't like the door to be held for us. For some it feels too patronizing.) Of course men and women are equal, but that doesn't mean we're the same. All humans have our strong points and our weak points, but it all balances out in the end. What's needed is mutual respect and the acknowledgement that no one group is better than another. With that said, I'm feeling a little concerned. There's a lot of information out there about western men being in relationships with Japanese women, but not too much about western women and Japanese men. If what I've read here about the gender roles in Japan is true, then we have a problem. Definately both the western woman and the Japanese man would have to be unusual for their respective groups. What do you think?

[moyashi]

hmmm, I'm a guy. So, of course, I can only reply as one :)

I've met and seen quite a few western women in Japan. Some hook up with Japanese men others with other foreign men. Some women have mentioned the lack of male companionship. why? why? why? I've also been bitched at for not dating western women. lololo ... why?

I know that a lot of my male friends would love to have a (ahem) blond girlfriend. Yet, many would just love to have a foreign girlfriend just in general.

I guess one problem is that many men aren't self-confident enough to go for it. Would it be a language problem or a just a male tool lack of confidence problem. My buddies are pretty manly and what not but they just don't seem to have the balls (ahem ... sorry) to approach a foreign female.

I wonder how many Japanese get turned down for not having enough money? Or just looking not manly enough? Or just get turned down for being too short?

Now, relationships.
I'd say that many Japanese men are traditional but from what I've seen in my age group along the lines of "Leave it to Beaver" (using a 50-60's tv show as reference from the states here).

Lady takes care of the home and the man is the bread winner. Getting tea and what not normally doesn't even go well with the younger generations so men have learned to get their own beers. My sister-in-law serves her husband, while I serve my wife. I guess it just depends on who you run into.

I don't know if I'd say "unusual" but I'd say that it takes a bit of understanding each other as humans. Not gaijin and nihonjin, but ningen and ningen.

[Alex]

Interesting explanation, Moyashi. Not at all unexpected. I was reunited with my Japanese male friend Tuesday night and we both drank enough that I got many questions answered. He admitted that he's a coward. Too bad. Now we're established good buddies, but we both know that there was an attraction on both sides. It's kind of wierd, but I'm going with it. The point is that there were characteristics that were not American that I really liked. Others were very difficult. Bottom line: I think I've got to make my way to Japan - either that or one of the nearby Japanese communities here in CA - and meet some Japanese men. Height isn't an issue. I'm 5'1". Money? Well, I don't want a homeless guy! Hey, introduce me to some of your buddies!

[moyashi]

We have [bo-nen-kai] "end of the year" parties. Normally, the main party is close to 150 men. No women allowed. It's our night out and we stop girls at the door. It's just a lot of joking, eating, drinking, and lewd jokes for the first 2 hours, after which women are invited.

My buddies are part of the rough side of society. construction workers, carpenters, plumbers, used car salesmen, used clothing shop owners, dry cleaners, tatami makers, ex-yakuza. You name it, we are the dregs of the Japanese society.

You interested?

Where in CA are you?

I used to live in Oxnard, Santa Barbara and San Diego.

[Alex]

Hummm. . .
Dregs of society - Are you trying to discourage me? Do you at least have some in sheep's clothing? A little roughness is cool, but I'd like to find someone with some similar interests (silly me!). You used to teach English, right? Well, that's my world - ESL. Someday I'd like to make that EFL.

What the heck, if anyone's interested in an e-pal I'm here. They just have to know English. My first Japanese lesson is this Saturday!

I live in Fullerton. Are you originally from CA?

[moyashi]

Not originally but rather south of the Falls. Moved out during high school.

Ahh, I get it. Hmmm, you should come over on the ELT program. Lot's of teachers ( ;) ) I bet you'd love the work. It's the ELT program with it's faults but you'd get a chance to visit many schools and get to experience what goes on in real schools comapred to the regular Eikaiwa scene.

@email pal
I'll keep my eyes and ears open :)

[Alex]

Thanks moyashi!

Hey, I found a site where I can create some e-pals in Japan. New friends - cool! I've already gotten some responses! This is fun.

[moyashi]

glad to hear that :)

[tariqfayyaz]

if we really want to know about the right answer to this problem - the right way could be when a machine goes wrong we take out the operating manual and try to find out the problem- even in this case we have to consult the "Operating Manual of Men & Women".
if u are interested to find out where can we find this manual plz contact me.

[moyashi]

hmmm? A secret manual passed down through the generations?

You got my interest here that's for sure.

[deborah gormley]

hmmm a secret manual indeed,lol,, this must be a joke right? I am so interested in this, I'm looking forward to tariqfayyaz posting a small paragraph of this wise book so we can see if its real,lol and who knows we just might learn how to deal and charm the oppisite sex While on an equal/unequal status of course

[Iron Chef]

Should they be equal? Absolutely. Are they in fact equal? Nopers... The fact that here in the U.S. despite all of our so-called cultural advancements we have never had a woman president or vice-president pretty much says it all about the "good 'ol boys" mentality/monopoly I think (at least in the political arena). Heck, the civil rights movement that provided a revolutionary turning point was NOT that long ago yet it's well documented women still earn less than their male counterparts for the exact same work. For a chronological timeline of global women's suffrage (right to vote) check out the following link:

http://www.ipu.org/wmn-e/suffrage.htm

By far and away, the majority have taken place within only the last century or so with some countries today still denying women that most basic right of an equal vote.

Re: Japan's issues of gender inequality, I don't think anyone will disagree that there exists a gross disparity in perceptions and actuality. I've always found it odd that I could enter any government office and see every female employee wearing the same uniform (imposed conformity?) while every male employee is entitled to wear their own apparel as they see fit. And to this day, I don't ever recall a male employee in said office ever bringing me tea or coffee when offered, rather that duty somehow always fell on the shoulders of the nearest female employee to drop whatever she was doing at the time...

Just some food for thought.
8-)

[kirei_na_me]

Agreed, Iron Chef. We just like to think we have made progress when we really havent made much progress at all.

while every male employee is entitled to wear their own apparel as they see fit

hehe...my husband cannot wear whatever he wants, but he's not a government worker, of course. He must wear a suit and tie every single day, even though he has to work on very heavy and dangerous machinery. He is also not allowed to highlight his hair or grow facial hair.

I do know that he and the other men in his company do leave the coffee making and food fetching to the Okinawan secretary, though. They've got the American plant manager taking advantage of it too.

[Chipi]

Well, first of all, I think one cannot answer this question just with a simple "yes" or "no". There are so many things you have to consider. And does the question mean equality in general, through the world, or just in Japan, U.S.A or...??
Because if we´re talking about the world in general, then no way, women and men are not even close to beeing equal. It really should be that way though. I think it´s in a way even silly to separate these "two races", men and women, since we are human. All of us.
Traditions vary from country to country, and I do feel it´s important to respect these traditions. To a certain limit. If the traditions don´t act as a 100% part of one´s life all the time it´s ok I think.
I think the question of being equal is quite personal in the end...every woman and man is different, and have their own feeling about just how equal they want to be. There should be the possibilities always though, to have the same jobs for example, and to choose if they want to be "housewifes" and "housemen"..(errmm...sorry for the clumsy expression :))

Equality in Finland is quite good, but there are some flaws. Some old customs, prejudices and so on that prevent women of doing some things freely etc. And the salary issue- women do have a worse paycheck in some jobs than the men doing the same job. That´s simply just_wrong_.

I think everyone just should have the freedom of being what they are, doing what they feel, without looking first if they´re women - or men.

Originally posted by moyashi
hmmm, I'm a guy. So, of course, I can only reply as one :)

I wonder how many Japanese get turned down for not having enough money? Or just looking not manly enough? Or just get turned down for being too short?

And I have to say to these questions presented by moyashi, that it´s really so stupid to turn down someone just because they don´t have enough money, or they are"too short".
Who actually even needs this kind of people, proud, cold and bitchy, just looking at the pretty picture, forgetting what´s inside?
Sure, looks do coun´t quite a lot in feeling attraction, but seriously, counting inches in somebodys height is just ridiculous. I say good luck and courage to you and your friends :)

[Gaijinandtonic]

Seems to me that this question of equal rights fails to recognise a key element. Rights cannot be attained in the absence of additional responsibility. When you gain a right, you have almost always done so at a cost to the benefits previously enjoyed by another party (rightly or wrongly). Often, these benefits have been coupled with increased responsibility. It seems to me that much of the 'equal rights for women' movement has essentially been about gaining rights for women but has deliberately avoided increasing the level of responsibility that women have to take for their lives. Thus men retain the majority of the burden but have lost many benefits over the last few decades.

[maji]

women and men are not equal. they might only be equal in a very small area (sorry for the bad english) like between you and your partner, or you and very few friends.
but in general theyre not. first there are physical differences. then the stuff like who gets how much money for jobs. who gets what jobs at all. and then of course the way you are grown up by your parents. it already starts with them finding out ur a girl and dress you in pink when your little. then youre already pushed into a role. and even if we think we are free from those roles and expectations others put upon us, i dont know anyone who is. mostly it doesnt matter because most people are happy the way the society shaped them, but some are not.
but i guess im slowly sliding from the gender-equal topic to one about finding our true self (which is one of my fav topics) but which is not the subject of this discussion.
anyway, to sum it up in a nutshell, only among very few and good friends or ur partner (but im sure to 90% not even then) you are equal no matter your gender.

[Maciamo]

Originally posted by Gaijinandtonic
Seems to me that this question of equal rights fails to recognise a key element. Rights cannot be attained in the absence of additional responsibility. When you gain a right, you have almost always done so at a cost to the benefits previously enjoyed by another party (rightly or wrongly). Often, these benefits have been coupled with increased responsibility. It seems to me that much of the 'equal rights for women' movement has essentially been about gaining rights for women but has deliberately avoided increasing the level of responsibility that women have to take for their lives. Thus men retain the majority of the burden but have lost many benefits over the last few decades.

Not sure about feminism in Saudi Arabia but in lots of Western countries, 90% of women work, and that is an effect of feminism. 50 years ago, women would stay at home and care for the house and children only. Nowadays, they still do it but have to work (often full-time) on top of it. Even if they are now able to reach powerful position in companies or politics, I feel in average they have been the big looser in this system. Men have gained the right to take paternity leaves and don't need to work as much because their wife now bring an additional (and equal ! in some countries...) salary back home. I think that's the main reason why people work less and have more holidays nowadays than a few decades ago. But once again I have no idea on you can feel about that if you live in Saudi Arabia, where women cannot go out without permission or show their face in public. They have a lot of rights to gain there.

[Atmos_Fear]

man, so many post, but i read them all :)

if you ask me the answer is no, man and woman are not equal and they shouldn't be. Please don't get me wrong i'm no talking about the rights in the society. You can find the answer of this question in the very basic principles of nature. The strong wins

man it's so sad to see that some women doesn't know how to use their power. Women are strong that's for shure but some of them are just emancipate bitches. They think of men just as a sex tool. You can easy say the same for some mens ;)

Anyway i think that both woman and men need each other to be complete

[Muppette]

Mentally, yes they are equal.

But when it comes to the work place it seems like women aren't equal. Why? Because in hiring women they take the risk of someone that could sue at any time for sexual harrasment or have a child at anytime they like and make the company lose money during their maternity leave. So we get paid less. Yay.

Tch. What's the use of going to college as a woman for higher learning when the fact isn't even recognized by companies. But when men go to college companies are like, "Yay! You have a penis! We give you lots of money! WE GIIIIIVE!"

I wonder why I have this overwhelming urge to stab something/someone right now... ¬___¬

[Satori]

Oh, here's the thread with the poll included!! Sorry, I guess I responded to your other one that didn't include it. My answer for both threads is: Yes, men and women are equal--as human beings. Having said that, I don't think they are necessarily treated equally by society! :)

[RedSun]

Originally posted by Koji
Men and women are not nessesarily equal . It is easy for men to gain in muscle . It's just because of the natural disin of men and women . In social statis in many countries women have to cover their faces and body intirly . Women arent aloud to talk, laugh or anything in public. In roalty Engalnd is one of the only countries where the female portion is in controll, in ancient Japanese government The Empirer is in control . In the USA women have never ben president and aren't expected to when elections[polls].
So men and women are equal in American rights but not everywhere .
Last year in Turkey a new law was past saying women can't wear shots, short sleaves, or sandels .

Last year in Turkey a new law was past saying women can't wear shots, short sleaves, or sandels

Could you give us an evident? Present the related law statement??

I live in Turkey. My sister sometimes wear miniskirt and of course bikini when we go to beach.

I just joined this group but now getting a little frustrated... People who have never seen or lived in Turkey TALK about Turkey... Be a little observant.