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Thread: European Haplogroups

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    Post European Haplogroups



    Important Notice : The information in this thread is no longer up to date. You can find the latest updates on this page.

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    Last edited by Maciamo; 24-05-09 at 11:23.

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    All Europeans genetically close

    Looking up the Genetic history of Europe on Wikipedia, I found a surprising fact. Despite its apparent diversity, the European continent is more genetically homogenous than any other continent (I wonder if that includes the pre-Colombian Americas).

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Somewhat contradicting these findings, a similar 2007 study found that the most important genetic differentiation in Europe occurs on a line from the north to the south-east (northern Europe to the Balkans), with another east-west axis of differentiation across Europe. Its findings were consistent with earlier mtDNA and Y-chromosonal based results supporting the theory that modern Iberians hold the most ancient European genetic ancestry, as well as separating Basques and Sami from other European populations. It confirmed that the English and Irish cluster with other Northern Europeans such as Germans and Poles while some Basque and Italian individuals also clustered with Northern Europeans. Despite these stratifications it noted the unusually high degree of European homogeneity: "there is low apparent diversity in Europe with the entire continent-wide samples only marginally more dispersed than single population samples elsewhere in the world."
    Another unintuitive fact is that Scandinavia is less homogenous than many could believe. Genetically speaking, there is no such thing as a Germanic ethnicity covering all culturally Germanic countries, even the old Scandinavian homeland of Germanic languages. Y-DNA hapolgroups have shown that Scandinavian people were divided more or less equally between the I, R1a and R1b groups. The British, Irish or Spanish, despite their mixed heritage are more homogenous from this point of view.

    Even from an anthropological point of view, Scandinavia is far from homogenous. People in Gotland, for instance, have clear Mongoloid feature, like the Finns (broad face, short nose). The people of South-West Norway (between Stavanger and Bergen) are darker haired and have more "German" feature than other Scandinavians. Those of the Trondheim region, on the contrary, have more obvious Nordic features, although different from those of the rest of Scandiavia (e.g. long and narrow faces). The Danes are broader headed and stockier than their northern neighbours.

    Many Swedes and Norwegians have mixed Sami blood. This is more obvious among women, who are often shorter, darker haired and less typically Germanic than their Danish, German, Dutch, Belgian or English counterparts.

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    X Haplotype

    Maciamo...

    Again, another wonderful thread.

    I am interested in the X Haplotype, of which is descended from the N Haplotype.

    What I find curious is the divergence of geographic location, from the N to the X. For example, the origin of the N Haplotype is generally shown in the mideast area, and the emergence of the X descendant is shown in the Scandinavian countries, and in North America in relatively small numbers and specific locations.

    But doesn't that also mean that X could have been everywhere in between and just mutated into the modern haplotypes? I am sure I have seen a progression chart... maybe from you...showing earliest haplotypes, progressing to N, progressing to X, etc. It seems to me that X is just a remnant of an ancient strain that was isolated enough not to mutate, but where it wasn't isolated, may have mutated into modern day popular strains.

    Your thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdZiomek View Post
    Maciamo...
    Again, another wonderful thread.
    Thanks. I am always glad to hear that some people appreciate my articles.

    I am interested in the X Haplotype, of which is descended from the N Haplotype.
    What I find curious is the divergence of geographic location, from the N to the X. For example, the origin of the N Haplotype is generally shown in the mideast area, and the emergence of the X descendant is shown in the Scandinavian countries, and in North America in relatively small numbers and specific locations.
    But doesn't that also mean that X could have been everywhere in between and just mutated into the modern haplotypes? I am sure I have seen a progression chart... maybe from you...showing earliest haplotypes, progressing to N, progressing to X, etc. It seems to me that X is just a remnant of an ancient strain that was isolated enough not to mutate, but where it wasn't isolated, may have mutated into modern day popular strains.
    Your thoughts?
    First of all, you have to know that two thirds of the mtDNA haplogroups (not haplotype, which is another thing) descend from N, wich itself descend from L3, which descends from L2, and itself from L1. Haplogroups L and N originated in Africa, so they preceded or coincided with the spread of modern humans. In fact, hpg N can still be found among Australian aborigines, although it has probably disappeared from Africa. I say "probably" because too few people have been tested to be conclusive.

    Haplogroup X came into existence about 30,000 years ago, during the Ice Age, and before humans crossed over to the American continent. It might have originated around the Caucasus, then spread in various directions from there, including Siberia, where it is still found. One group migrated to the Americas. Others to the Near East, Mediterranean Europe and Northern Europe.

    Because it happened so long ago, humans have had time to move to very remote parts of the globe since then. MtDNA haplogroups are usually less useful than Y-DNA to determine one's geographic origins, because in ancient times, in case of invasions, the victors killed the men, but kept the women. That is why Y-DNA groups are more homogeneously spread, and many mdDNA groups are found almost anywhere in Eurasia.

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    Country: Croatia



    I1b is after Croats and Bosniaks highest found in north-eastern Romania(41%).Bosnian Croats and Croats on average have the most of I haplogroup in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joro View Post
    I1b is after Croats and Bosniaks highest found in north-eastern Romania(41%).Bosnian Croats and Croats on average have the most of I haplogroup in the world.
    I1b is the old denomination. Now it is I2a, and actually I2a2 in Eastern Europe. Its highest incidence is actually in Croatia (42% nationwide, but up to 70% in central Croatia). This website has a table with the percentages of each haplogroup for all European countries.

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    Thank you for this link.There is also a study with slight different numbers in google:'Review of Croatian genetic heritage as revealed by mitochondrial DNA and Y chromosomal lineages',in which r1a is 25%.
    I2a reaches over 70% among Croats in Bosnia,not in central Croatia
    similar levels can be found on Islands also,and Dalmatian coast and hinterland haven't been specially observed,but they probably have similar numbers.

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    from which study are that numbers?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L21
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U6a7a1

    Country: France



    U6 is not found only in Iberia. U6 is found in Italy, France, England, Germany, Ukraine, Belgium, etc...

    Bernard

    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Here is an attempt to classify European mtDNA sub-haplogroups by region.

    Haplogroup H

    H1 : found in all Europe ; highest in Iceland, Russia and Germany ; lowest in S-E Europe => Northern European
    H1b : mostly found in Eastern Europe and North Central Europe. => Slavic-Germanic
    H2 : found mostly in Scotland, Germany and Eastern Europe.
    H2a : found mostly in Eastern Europe and Central Asia. => Kurgan
    H2b : Cambridge Reference Sequence
    H3 : found mostly in Western and Northern Europe. Highest frequency in Iberia, Sardinia and Germanic countries.
    H4 : found in all Europe except Russia ; highest in Iberia, Central and S-E Europe. => European (possibly Celtic)
    H5 : found mostly in France, Italy and Iberia. Absent from Russia, Finland and Ireland. => European (possibly Celtic)
    H5a : most common in Central Europe => Celtic
    H6 : rare in Europe ; most common in Central Asia and the Middle East.
    H8 : mostly found in Eastern and Northern Europe ; absent or rare in Ireland, Iberia, France, Italy and the Alps. => Slavic-Germanic

    Haplogroup U

    U1 : found mostly in Italy ; absent or rare in Northern and S-E Europe. => Latin
    U2 : found in most of Europe except Russia and S-E Europe.
    U3 : found mostly in S-E Europe, then Germany. Absent from Ireland and Finland.
    U4 : Common all over Europe, but most common in Russia.
    U5 : found in all Europe except Russia and Finland. Most common in France and Scandinavia.
    U5a : Common everywhere in Europe.
    U5a1 : Mostly found in Finland and Russia. Absent from the Mediterranean, France, Ireland, Scotland and Iceland.
    U5b : found mosly between Germany, Finland and Russia. Rare in southern Europe.
    U5b1 : found only in Nordic countries and Russia.
    U6 : found only in Iberia.

    Haplogroup K

    K1 : found almost only in Germanic countries + Ireland. => Germanic
    K2 : found mostly around the Alps. Rare in Northern Europe and Russia. => Celtic
    K2a : found almost only in Scandinavia, Britain and Ireland. => Germanic
    K2b : found in Britain, Iberia and the Alps. => Celtic

    Haplogroup J

    J1 : found mostly in S-E Europe and the Alps. Absent or rare in Western and Northern Europe.
    J1a : mostly found in Germanic countries (Alps included). Absent from Russia and S-E Europe. => Germanic
    J1b : found in Russia, S-E Europe, France, Italy and Iberia => Southern & Eastern European.
    J1b1 : found mostly in Britain, Ireland and Scandinavia, but also a bit in France and Germany. => Germanic
    J2 : mostly found in France, Italy and S-E Europe. Rare in Germanic countries. => Mediterranean

    Haplogroup T

    T1 : found everywhere in Europe, especially in the South and East. => European
    T2 : found mostly in Northern, Central and Eastern Europe. => Slavic-Germanic
    T3 : found at the highest frequency in Iceland. Otherwise at low frequencies in Germanic countries and Italy. => Germanic
    T4 : found at low frequencies in Northern & Eastern Europe, Germany and Italy. Germanic
    T5 : found mostly in Central Europe and Britain => Celtic

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    Dear Bernard,

    As mentioned on top of this page this forum thread was written in 2007 and is no longer updated. Please refer to this page for more up-to-date information.

    EDIT : I have now removed the outdated content from this thread to avoid any further confusion.

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