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Thread: The difference between VJ day and VE day

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    The difference between VJ day and VE day



    One difference I noted about Europeans and Americans is that Europeans still commemorate a bloodbath that they started over 60 years ago. And they don't even commemorate the true end of it. They just commemorate the end of it FOR EUROPE.

    VE Day is commemorated in Europe with politicians remembering the dead (European dead of course) and laying wreath after wreath. It's commemorated by Europeans talking of the huge amount of death and destruction that EUROPE had to endure (get this, at the hands of EUROPE). And yet, there is little if any mention of the death and destruction the rest of this planet had to endure at the hands of Europe. Europeans simply don't care about the rest of the planet. They care only that they gained victory.

    Americans on the other hand have long since given up on VJ Day. In fact, most of this planet has forgiven Europe for its atrocious two world wars and moved on. I can't think of anyone outside of Europe who makes such a big deal about celebrating yet another European bloodbath.

    Why are Euros so callous as to celebrate the end of WWII for them, but not for everyone else? In my view, VJ Day is much closer to the actual end of the war and yet Europeans don't recognize it.

    Why is that?

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    People do not celebrate the end of WWII here. Only the armistice of WWI (which was far worse in Western Europe) is a national holiday, on 11th November.

    Americans may not understand just how serious WWI was, as they almost didn't participate in it. Almost 20 million people died - almost all Europeans (the USA lost 115,000 people, against 1,700,000 for France and 2,500,000 for Germany). Yes, tiny France (the size of Texas) lost more brave soldiers in WWI than the huge USA lost in all its wars in the 20th century (WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Panama, Iraq...).

    However, apart from being a national holiday, few people actually celebrate it by visiting cemeteries or the unknown soldier's tomb. Only a few elderly people do (always less year after year).

    Anyway, I don't see your point. Why is it ok for Americans to celebrate VJ day (Victory over Japan Day, i.e. the end of WWII) but not for some Europeans to celebrate the end of WWI ? You really like to raise up useless arguments for the sake of looking stupid, don't you ?

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    I must disagree with you, Monsieur. For the 60th anniversary of the end of WWII, there most certainly were ceremonies in several parts of Europe, commemorating the end of that horrific carnage.

    And Americans most certainly DO understand the seriousness of WWI and WWII. That's why we didn't join those bloodbaths right away (well that and the fact that there was no international law stating that we, or any other nation for that matter, had to jump when Europe snapped its fingers). I think my country showed great sensibility in refusing to be yanked into yet more European carnage. I can only hope that every non-European country thought as long and hard.

    And why are Europeans so upset that European countries lost many more men than non-European countries? Especially the US? They were YOUR bloodbaths, not ours, fought on YOUR land. Is it really that difficult to comprehend why you all lost so many?

    And I like your quote from Churchill at the end of your post. Definitely European. I take it to mean that you Euros still believe we non-Euros must shed our blood so that you people inside Europe may live free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedOne View Post
    And Americans most certainly DO understand the seriousness of WWI and WWII. That's why we didn't join those bloodbaths right away (well that and the fact that there was no international law stating that we, or any other nation for that matter, had to jump when Europe snapped its fingers). I think my country showed great sensibility in refusing to be yanked into yet more European carnage. I can only hope that every non-European country thought as long and hard.
    And why are Europeans so upset that European countries lost many more men than non-European countries? Especially the US? They were YOUR bloodbaths, not ours, fought on YOUR land. Is it really that difficult to comprehend why you all lost so many?
    It is quite obvious that you do not understand the reason why WW1 and 2 were fought and why the US joined the wars. Before you make yourself look even more stupid I recommend that you read a few history books.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedOne
    They were YOUR bloodbaths, not ours, fought on YOUR land. Is it really that difficult to comprehend why you all lost so many?
    so its quite normal that we europeans celebrate the end of the WW as our war and not as a us-vs-japan war.

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedOne
    And I like your quote from Churchill at the end of your post. Definitely European. I take it to mean that you Euros still believe we non-Euros must shed our blood so that you people inside Europe may live free.
    america is free to leave nato.

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    The difference between VJ day and VE day

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycernius View Post
    It is quite obvious that you do not understand the reason why WW1 and 2 were fought and why the US joined the wars. Before you make yourself look even more stupid I recommend that you read a few history books.
    Hi Mike!
    Truly – and with respect – I think you are being a little harsh on WickedOne.
    Please allow me to make a few comments to this post – which is, as you well know, gright up my alleyh c..
    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked One
    One difference I noted about Europeans and Americans is that Europeans still commemorate a bloodbath that they started over 60 years ago. And they don't even commemorate the true end of it. They just commemorate the end of it FOR EUROPE..
    Did gEuropeansh estartf WWII? Or did Nazi Germany? – You really do have to distinguish the two. (And bear in mind, the Germany under the control of the NationalesozialistischeArbeiter-Partei is not the Germany that you see before you today). I would suggest that you ask a Swede, or a Swiss, or a Portuguese c or a Spaniard c. A Czech, Dutchman or Pole about the siyuation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked One
    VE Day is commemorated in Europe with politicians remembering the dead (European dead of course) and laying wreath after wreath..
    Bullfeathers!
    As a gBrith living in North America, I can assure you that gweh very consciously remember the sacrifices made by Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, Indians, West Indians and other hNon-Europeansh who took part in that conflict.
    Your comment is, in a way, something of an immature, huge and totally uninformed insult to your own people as well as ours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked One
    It's commemorated by Europeans talking of the huge amount of death and destruction that EUROPE had to endure (get this, at the hands of EUROPE). And yet, there is little if any mention of the death and destruction the rest of this planet had to endure at the hands of Europe. Europeans simply don't care about the rest of the planet. They care only that they gained victory.
    Bullfeathers!
    Yes Europe did endure an incredible amount of death and destruction – more than you (as a younger American, I presume) can imagine. (BTW – So did Asia! More of that anon c)
    I can remember driving through Karlsruhe, Germany and finding myself surrounded by a rubble filled landscape with nothing to see but destroyed buildings as far as I could see. The results of allied (Yes, that included Americanc) bombing during 1943-45.
    That was in 1964!
    You think you can envisage devastation c. ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked One
    Americans on the other hand have long since given up on VJ Day. In fact, most of this planet has forgiven Europe for its atrocious two world wars and moved on. I can't think of anyone outside of Europe who makes such a big deal about celebrating yet another European bloodbath. Why are Euros so callous as to celebrate the end of WWII for them, but not for everyone else?
    Bullfeathers!
    Celebrate? We donft look at it that way! Ask any U.S. Vet.
    Whatfs so gcalloush about remembering your own – but at the same time acknowledging others who assisted? If your mom dies – are you not going to give a little bit more thought to her, but (with respect) not necessarily acknowledge all the other moms who have died throughout history? I guess we have to wait and see. I presume you havenft been there yet c
    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked One
    In my view, VJ Day is much closer to the actual end of the war and yet Europeans don't recognize it.
    One thing you got right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked One
    Why is that?
    I think you have to ask your own countrymen.
    Why have you gGiven uph on VJ day ? ( – which I agree was the true end of WWII).
    Do all surviving U.S. WWII vets agree with you? Or I this just a personal thing c.?
    Now c I havenft finished yet c.
    I agree with you in one respect – yes WWII started as a gEuropeanh war. Not without precedent, as you point out. (But curiously, with the exception of WWI – which took up a scant twelve months of your countryfs time c the only European War that involved America. Prior to that c we have to go back to 1812 – and, dammit! You were on the other side and won!)
    But the only reason that America became embroiled in it had little to do with Europe!
    Franklin D. Roosevelt, whilst etremely sympathetic to the cause of those European nations threatened by Nazi Germany, was restrained from enjoining the battle (as it were) by popular American opinion – rather like your own – and somewhat understandably so (on the face of it).
    However, at the same time, America (admittedly with one or two European nations) was having its own little argument with Japan (very much for economic reasons) and getting a little intolerant of Japanese actions in Asia, particularly in China. Admittedly - the Japanese weren't being nice guys either ...!)
    Strangely, the Japanese did offer certain compromises (this gets complicated – Mycernius is right c read your history!) – but thanks to language problems, and not to a small degree some American gbullheadednessh – the Japanese finally threw their arms in the air and trotted off to Admiral Yamamoto to see what they could do.
    The result was a little affair that we now call c. gPearl Harborh.
    America declared war on Japan (and because of the existence of the tri-partite pact, Germany and Italy plus, I presume Romania, Finland, Croatia, Hungary and lottsa other German puppets.) the same day.
    c.and the music went round and round c and comes out here!
    SO!
    Was WWII a European war?
    Partly – Yes
    Was it a World War until Asia became truly involved?
    No
    Was it a World War until America and Japan came into conflict?
    NO
    Was it a World War after Japan and America came into conflict?
    YES!
    So c my fine-feathered friend, is Mycernius right or wrong?
    Should you read more history or not?
    cc I think you shouldc.
    We remember World War II – because it is worth remembering!
    We remember WWII because – WE DONhT WANT IT AGAIN!
    By your own comments, undoubtedly not typical I hope, young Americans donft care! (..and George W. B. isnft too updated on this, either c.)
    Happy Reading,
    W

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