Religion Study shows that IQ decreases with religiosity

Freedom of thought (also called the freedom of conscience or ideas) is the freedom of an individual to hold or consider a fact, viewpoint, or thought, independent of others' viewpoints. It is different from and not to be confused with the concept of freedom of speech or expression.
Freedom of thought is the precursor and progenitor of—and thus is closely linked to—other liberties including freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and freedom of expression.
Tolerance or toleration to tolerate, or put up with, conditionally, also to suggest a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry.
 
Freedom of thought (also called the freedom of conscience or ideas) is the freedom of an individual to hold or consider a fact, viewpoint, or thought, independent of others' viewpoints. It is different from and not to be confused with the concept of freedom of speech or expression.
Freedom of thought is the precursor and progenitor of—and thus is closely linked to—other liberties including freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and freedom of expression.
Tolerance or toleration to tolerate, or put up with, conditionally, also to suggest a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry.
Freedom of thought and expression is welcome as long as it doesn't violate Eupedia rules, and basic civility.

Did you think you showed your tolerance when you branded my opinion "morbid and fascist"?
 
Freedom of thought and expression is welcome as long as it doesn't violate Eupedia rules, and basic civility.

Did you think you showed your tolerance when you branded my opinion "morbid and fascist"?

Please do not misunderstand me.My comment is not about You!What I meant is that the statement "IQ decreases with religiosity" is totally unacceptable because its clearly tendentious.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9755929/IQ-tests-do-not-reflect-intelligence.html

IQ tests have been controversial for years. Many argue that they are biased; others say that they give an incomplete view of intelligence. Indeed, a study published in an upcoming issue of the journal Neuron confirms that IQ tests are not an accurate predictor of intelligence. In fact, the researchers say that no single test - at least none that has been devised already - can give an accurate assessment of all types of intelligence.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/study-confirms-iq-tests-do-not-accurately-predict-intelligence-243971

If IQ tests are controversial, and you seem to believe they may not be valid, how can you say what kind of IQ certain people may have had if they lived before the IQ test was created? Your arguments do not seem very logical to me.
 
“Intelligence is a hypothetical idea which we have defined as being reflected by certain types of behavior.”

What is intelligence?

Intelligence is defined as general cognitive problem-solving skills. A mental ability involved in reasoning, perceiving relationships and analogies, calculating, learning quickly… etc. Earlier it was believed that there was one underlying general factor at the intelligence base (the g-factor), but later psychologists maintained that it is more complicated and could not be determined by such a simplistic method. Some psychologists have divided intelligence into subcategories. For example Howard Gardner maintained that it is comprised of seven components: musical, bodily-kinesthetic, logical-mathematical, linguistic, spatial, interpersonal, and intrapersonal. Other definitions are: “Intelligence is what you do when you don’t know what to do.”

http://www.brainmetrix.com/intelligence-definition/

Reason and Racism in the New Atheist Movement
"Perhaps one of the most widespread claims by the New Atheists is that religion is harmful. For Richard Dawkins it is a virus that spreads and infects the mind and is comparable to child abuse. For the late Christopher Hitchens religion “poisons everything” and is a “menace to society.” Greta Christina claims that the belief in supernatural entities makes people “more vulnerable to oppression, fraud and abuse.” Sam Harris likens religion to mental illness. One could go on and on with examples like these."
http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2012/01/26/reason-and-racism-in-the-new-atheist-movement/

This is quite communistic and racistic.





The first website you link to suggests that IQ tests may not be a completely perfect way to test intelligence, but also says that different types of IQ tests, when applied to the same individual, generally produce very similar results. That would suggest that the creator of the website believes that IQ tests, when properly administered, have considerable validity, despite not being perfect.

The second website you linked to shows an article that displays very poor reasoning, and I would assume that the individual who wrote it has a fairly low IQ. His argument seems to be "Different people of different races often have different religions, so anyone who's an atheist and who wants people to give up religion must be a racist." That is an obviously fallacious argument. And there's nothing inherently communistic about atheism, just as there's nothing inherently religious about monarchy. The modern communist movement promoted atheism at a time when the power of the capitalist structure in Europe was propped up by established churches, but that does not make atheism itself inherently communistic. Someone appears to have failed Logic 101.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9755929/IQ-tests-do-not-reflect-intelligence.html

IQ tests have been controversial for years. Many argue that they are biased; others say that they give an incomplete view of intelligence. Indeed, a study published in an upcoming issue of the journal Neuron confirms that IQ tests are not an accurate predictor of intelligence. In fact, the researchers say that no single test - at least none that has been devised already - can give an accurate assessment of all types of intelligence.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/study-confirms-iq-tests-do-not-accurately-predict-intelligence-243971

I assume you're saying that Newton wasted his efforts in time travelling to the 20th century in order to take an IQ test. How do you know what Newton's IQ was and why do you think the results are relevant if you believe that IQ tests are invalid because they may not be 100.0% perfect in all respects?

Would you mind telling us what your own IQ is? I'm curious.
 
I assume you're saying that Newton wasted his efforts in time travelling to the 20th century in order to take an IQ test. How do you know what Newton's IQ was and why do you think the results are relevant if you believe that IQ tests are invalid because they may not be 100.0% perfect in all respects?

Would you mind telling us what your own IQ is? I'm curious.
The inconsistency of his argument told me that he only wants to discredit IQ test with any means possible, because he doesn't agree with conclusion of the research.
 
Aberdeen: "And there's nothing inherently communistic about atheism,"

I never said that!Once again:the statement that IQ decreases with religiosity is Stalinistic,Hitleristic,Intolerant,its simply bullshit.
 
Aberdeen:"Would you mind telling us what your own IQ is? I'm curious. "

I see...you are The Übermensch.
 
The inconsistency of his argument told me that he only wants to discredit IQ test with any means possible, because he doesn't agree with conclusion of the research.

I don´t care about the test!!!I am talking about te conclusion of the "research".Its DISCRIMINATIVE!

How can any of these New Atheists claim that the Dinka religious tradition of Africa is harmful? They’ve probably never heard of it, let alone conducted any sort of anthropological or sociological studies to determine the degree of harmfulness it poses to its members or others. Dawkins claims “I believe not because of reading a holy book but because I have studied the evidence.” I’d love to see the data and research he’s gathered to reach such sweeping conclusions about religion. Has he investigated the Japanese religion Tenrikyo? The Korean tradition Wonbulgyo? Have any of these atheists been to Iraq or Iran to interview any Mandeans? Do these atheists ‘know’ in some scientific way that the traditional mythological beliefs of the Inuit of the polar regions were harmful or led to more harm? Are Native American religious traditions really child abuse?"
 
Criticism of the New Atheists
A number of essays and books have been written in response to the New Atheists (see the “References and Further Reading” section below for some titles). Some of these works are supportive of them and some of them are critical. Other works include both positive and negative evaluations of the New Atheism. Clearly, the range of philosophical issues raised by the New Atheists’ claims and arguments is broad. As might be expected, attention has been focused on their epistemological views, their metaphysical assumptions, and their axiological positions. Their presuppositions should prompt more discussion in the fields of philosophical theology, philosophy of science, philosophical hermeneutics, the relation between science and religion, and historiography. Conversations about the New Atheists’ stances and rationales have also taken place in the form of debates between Harris, Dawkins, Hitchens, and Dennett and defenders of religious belief and religion such as Dinesh D’Souza, who has published his own defense of Christianity in response to the New Atheists’ arguments. These debates are accessible in a number of places on the Internet. Finally, the challenges to religion posed by the New Atheists have also prompted a number of seminars and conferences. One of these is a conference presented by the Center for Philosophy of Religion at the University of Notre Dame, entitled, “My Ways Are Not Your Ways: The Character of the God of the Hebrew Bible”

http://www.iep.utm.edu/n-atheis/

Is Atheism a Religion?

http://www.strangenotions.com/is-atheism-a-religion/


At first, the claim that atheism is a religion might sound ridiculous.
It certainly can be a surprising claim.
And it’s one that many people, including western atheists, might initially dismiss out of hand.
But there’s more to the story here.
There is a case to be made that, in a very real sense, atheism is a religion.
 
Hitler saw himself as a devout christian, whereas Lenin and Stalin were atheists. So it appears that religious belief or lack thereof is not a predictor of who acquires political power. However, as LeBrok has already pointed out, statistical averages don't apply to individuals.

No, Hitler did not see himself as that. He sometimes tried to sell himself as devout Christian to the Germans. He did so because of his colossal troubles with the Catholic church, which was the NSDAP's archenemy.

In his table talk he shows nothing but deep contempt for Christianity, a religion that turns the other cheek and promotes not stoning women for sentimental reasons (sorry for the bad joke). All very weak behaviour in the eyes of National-Socialists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler's_Table_Talk
 
Is Atheism a Religion?

Atheism may or may not be a religion. But it most certainly is a Christian heresy: The idea that there is blessing in denouncing one's God mirrors the ideas of the early converts to Christianity.
 
No, Hitler did not see himself as that. He sometimes tried to sell himself as devout Christian to the Germans. He did so because of his colossal troubles with the Catholic church, which was the NSDAP's archenemy.

In his table talk he shows nothing but deep contempt for Christianity, a religion that turns the other cheek and promotes not stoning women for sentimental reasons (sorry for the bad joke). All very weak behaviour in the eyes of National-Socialists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler's_Table_Talk

So a Swiss financier who had been deeply involved with the Nazis altered Bormann's notes after WWII in order to make the record suggest that Hitler may have abandoned his christian roots, but there's nothing that Hitler himself ever wrote or said publicly to support that idea. And the Catholic Church was a strong supporter of the Nazis. I know that a lot of people would like to change the historical record, but many members of the Catholic hierarchy in Bavaria should probably have been tried as war criminals.

In any case, references to specific individuals is irrelevant with respect to Maciamo's point - some people believe they can show that, on average, religious persons seem to be less intelligent than atheists. Even if that could be or has been proven true, it wouldn't mean that all religious people are stupid or that all atheists are intelligent. And even intelligent people can be very wrong about some things. Richard Dawkins appears to be very intelligent, but he's definitely said a lot of things that I strongly disagree with.
 
At first, the claim that atheism is a religion might sound ridiculous.
It certainly can be a surprising claim.
And it’s one that many people, including western atheists, might initially dismiss out of hand.
But there’s more to the story here.
There is a case to be made that, in a very real sense, atheism is a religion.
No, not a religion, but a belief. By definition religion needs a deity, a spirit or afterlife, so we can exclude religion from equation. Some atheists might need some help in this department to belief that supernatural world doesn't exist, especially if something freaky-improbable happens.
Generally speaking atheism is not believing in supernatural. A clean slate of mind in department of religion with nothing written on this slate, state 0. Atheism is not believing, in lack of evidence for existence of any supernatural, gods or spirits. As we know proof of god existence lies on a claimant.
In my case, I used to believe in god, then I lost my faith, therefore I became an atheist. I didn't change one believe for an other, just lost a belief in god.
 
Let's put it this way. Intelligent people need scientific, statistical, empirical evidence to believe, or rather to know that something is true or very likely, that supernatural exists. Less intelligent people lack ability to analyze data, experiences, statistics and need to rely on beliefs of others. They rely on beliefs of others like authorities and their parents in understanding of the world, and if they were taught in young age that god exists, they tend to stick to this belief for the rest of their lives.
Besides there is genetic factor in spirituality of humans that makes us want to believe in supernatural. I was writing about this here:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28375-Beliefs-Spirituality-and-why-we-believe
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28441-Beliefs-Explained?p=405173#post405173
 
No, not a religion, but a belief. By definition religion needs a deity, a spirit or afterlife, so we can exclude religion from equation. Some atheists might need some help in this department to belief that supernatural world doesn't exist, especially if something freaky-improbable happens.
Generally speaking atheism is not believing in supernatural. A clean slate of mind in department of religion with nothing written on this slate, state 0. Atheism is not believing, in lack of evidence for existence of any supernatural, gods or spirits. As we know proof of god existence lies on a claimant.
In my case, I used to believe in god, then I lost my faith, therefore I became an atheist. I didn't change one believe for an other, just lost a belief in god.

By definition religion needs a deity, a spirit or afterlife, so we can exclude religion from equation.

Hmmm...

The Big Religion Chart

http://www.religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm
 
So a Swiss financier who had been deeply involved with the Nazis altered Bormann's notes after WWII in order to make the record suggest that Hitler may have abandoned his christian roots, but there's nothing that Hitler himself ever wrote or said publicly to support that idea.

That was a load of poppycock. No serious historian accepted that, not even Ian Kershaw who was sceptical on the reliability of the Table Talk books. Mind you, the proponent of the idea that it has been altered is an ardent atheist, one of these modern atheists. It goes to show that one should always deeply distrust idealists, even more in the case of science and scientists, and that not all people deserve an audience.

And the Catholic Church was a strong supporter of the Nazis.

The penalty on membership of the NSDAP was excommunication. The fight between the Catholic church and Hitler has been described extensively in Ian Kershaw's epic book "Hitler".

I know that a lot of people would like to change the historical record

Yes. Atheists, apparently.

but many members of the Catholic hierarchy in Bavaria should probably have been tried as war criminals.

Have you ever seen a map of the popularity of the NSDAP in the 1932 election of Germany? Please lay it alongside a map of the religious diversity of Germany at the time.

http://the-hermeneutic-of-continuity.blogspot.nl/2007/07/catholics-and-nazi-vote-1932.html
 
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Let's put it this way. Intelligent people need scientific, statistical, empirical evidence to believe, or rather to know that something is true or very likely, that supernatural exists. Less intelligent people lack ability to analyze data, experiences, statistics and need to rely on beliefs of others. They rely on beliefs of others like authorities and their parents in understanding of the world, and if they were taught in young age that god exists, they tend to stick to this belief for the rest of their lives.
Besides there is genetic factor in spirituality of humans that makes us want to believe in supernatural. I was writing about this here:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28375-Beliefs-Spirituality-and-why-we-believe
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28441-Beliefs-Explained?p=405173#post405173

Sorry, there are too many other factors at play. I know a lot of highly intelligent and accomplished Orthodox Jews who are, by definition, devout believers in God.
 
No, not a religion, but a belief. By definition religion needs a deity, a spirit or afterlife, so we can exclude religion from equation. Some atheists might need some help in this department to belief that supernatural world doesn't exist, especially if something freaky-improbable happens.
Generally speaking atheism is not believing in supernatural. A clean slate of mind in department of religion with nothing written on this slate, state 0. Atheism is not believing, in lack of evidence for existence of any supernatural, gods or spirits. As we know proof of god existence lies on a claimant.
In my case, I used to believe in god, then I lost my faith, therefore I became an atheist. I didn't change one believe for an other, just lost a belief in god.

The question: Is there a creator and is the universe constructed in an organized manner, is answered through the scientific method. The creator could be the energy holding things together in space, creating and maintaining equilibrium. Whether we personify God or view God as a scientific construct makes no difference. In essence, my existence depends on IT to survive and so does every other living entity.

There is method in everything we observe whether we believe it is created or because of natural occurrences is a matter of world view. Personally, I believe things make sense in the world because of the existence of a creator. I cannot accept the belief that nature works the way it does simply because of natural processes were it not for the existence of a creator exercising control over such processes.

The argument that we have no scientific proof for the existence of God or a creator is in my opinion one of the greatest fallacies in 'scientific' reasoning. The question however of whether a creator exists in man's image, whatever that means, is another question altogether. I believe that suffering and disaster is part of nature's process. To lose faith in God because of the disaster and suffering in the world is blaming the creator for our irresponsible actions and the consequences of our past actions on the planet. If intelligence and assuming responsibility for one's own actions were commensurate then I would have said that you have a point however it is my personal experience that levels of narcissism increase in more intelligent individuals as they work much harder to achieve positive regard from others, seeking recognition and affirmation by their peers. In essence, a high IQ suggests that an individual spends the requisite amount of time studying and developing themselves in the belief that they would be able to make a difference in the world, hopefully a difference for the better.

What you are saying is that less intelligent persons need to believe in a creator whereas I am saying that more intelligent persons need the existence of a creator to avoid personal responsibility for the suffering they have caused. This however becomes too 'painful' for some individuals to bare, the elite or exceptional among us have come to the realization that belief in a creator does not negate their responsibility and in an effort to free themselves from the burden they rely on themselves for 'salvation' ... the theme here is CONTROL.

Intelligence is correlated strongly with a belief in an individual's ability to exercise control. This in turn correlates with self-aggrandizement or narcissism. The belief that there can be no creator is found among the most narcissistic individuals, those of us who refuse responsibility and rationalize that the proverbial creator would never allow the holocaust to happen and yet they believe that man would somehow stop the suffering he has imposed on his fellow man. This circular reasoning ends at the feet of the individual narcissist ... for lacking the necessary empathy and insight to perceive their own inability to comprehend that it is man's own responsibility to behave in a manner that is in alignment with their own 'ideas' befitting the existence of a creator.

If we as man behave poorly and expect somebody other than ourselves to clean up our mess, does that not say more about our lack of morality and misguided self-importance than the existence or non-existence of a creator???

What if a creator had no reason to save such a man as ourselves, does that mean the creator does not exist, or that man is riddled with vice and self-love?
 

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