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Thread: ABO blood group and disease resistance

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    Post ABO blood group and disease resistance



    Blood types do not exist just to create conversation between people ("What's your blood type ? Really ? Me too !") or for the Japanese to try to predict your personality. They actually have a vital immunological function. They help us fight diseases.

    Their distribution can tell us what major disease epidemics a given population suffered in its recent history (e.g. in the last thousand years). For example, most native Americans belong to group O. It is believed that this is due to a syphilis epidemics and that the O type were better are fighting off the disease.

    There is no ideal blood type though. Each type has its pros and cons.

    Group A and B make people more resistant to cholera, while AB confers the most resistance. O offers virtually no immunity against cholera.

    B confers weaker protection against plague. This is probably why B is more common in North-East Europe, which was virtually unaffected by the Black Death during the Middle Ages.

    A-type carriers are the most likely to survive plague, but suffer from a higher rate of heart disease, because their blood is more likely to clot. They are also at increased risk of contracting smallpox and developing cancer of the esophagus, pancreas, and stomach.

    Type O, contrarily to A, is slightly protective against cardiovascular problems. It also boosts resistance against tuberculosis (TB), but increases the risk of venous thromboembolism and developing duodenal and peptic ulcers. It also attracts more mosquitoes (through which malaria is transmitted).

    A recent study revealed that people with type O blood are less likely to get pancreatic cancer, but also stomach, breast, ovarian and cervical cancer.

    Humans are not the only ones to have an ABO system. Apes have the same antigens on their red blood cells. Gorillas are almost always B, exceptionally O, but never A or AB. Chimpanzees most usually belong to A, occasionally to O, but never to B or AB. Orang-utans seem to lack the O type altogether.

    Other antigen systems

    The ABO blood group system isn't the only antigen system found in humans. There are about 30 human blood type systems: Rhesus, Kell, Diego, Duffy, Kidd, and so on. Each have a role in immunity. Some are found only in some specific populations and completely absent elsewhere. This is the case of Diego antigens, found only (at low frequency) among Mongolic people and Amerindians.

    Having a lot of antigens isn't always better for your health. Just as A antigens can make your blood clot, being positive for Lewis antigens makes people at extremely high risk for stomach ulcers.

    Likewise, the absence of Duffy antigen is protective against malaria. Once again, humans have been shown to be close to other primates, as baboons have evolved the same Duffy antigen immunity as the one found in humans.
    Last edited by Maciamo; 08-08-09 at 12:16.
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    Thank you very much for such usefull information

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    Thanks again for the great information!

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    Thank you very much for such usefull information. I´m AB+

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    According to a new study, blood type O are twice as likely as type A or AB women to have a reduced egg count. Blood group O may therefore have a negative incidence on female fertility.

    Most of the women in my family are A, while most of the men are O. I wonder if Nature (i.e. genetics) makes it more likely for women to inherit from a blood type increasing female fertility. It would make sense from an evolutionary point of view. Men would benefit more from being O, as it reduces the risk of cardio-vascular problems, more common in males than females. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find blood type statistics by gender to confirm whether there was a difference incidence of each group between men and women.
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    Negative is fine, positive can cause issues with a second child.

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    La Brok,
    help me understand what you mean by "positive can cause issues with a second child".

    thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Negative is fine, positive can cause issues with a second child.
    I think you meant the opposite. Most people are Rh+, but if either the mother or baby happen to be Rh- there is a risk of alloimmune reaction from the mother's body, which can cause hemolytic disease of the newborn.
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    Lol, I should avoid short thoughts without context. I'm not sure what I meant by myself after few days. :) Possibly I meant a child.

    Baby Rh+, Mother Rh+, = no problem
    Baby Rh-, Mother Rh- = no problem
    Baby Rh-, Mother Rh+ = no problem
    Baby Rh+, Mother Rh- = problem

    If Baby is Rh+ it means that baby is producing Rh protein, and it flows in the blood. If Mother is Rh- it means she doesn't have Rh protein in her blood. In this case, after a while (by a second child) mother starts producing antibodies to fight kid's Rh protein. Mother immunological system considers Rh protein as a foreign body and destroys them. When this happens the child can dye.

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    All sources say that the risk for Rh incompatibility between Rh- mom and Rh+ fetus occurs in second pregnancies. The sources indicate that the mother builds up the antibodies after delivery of the first incompatible child and generally only affects subsequent pregnancies. I just have to wonder though: why is that and could there be more subtle effects for the first child? Could a hostile womb environment be affecting gene expression for the first fetus?

    My husband and I are both Rh+, but both of our mom's are Rh-. Neither of us have any brother's or sisters (I guess a testament why Rh- is only 15% where it's common!). Our son is autistic and ASD/ADHD/mood disorders do run in our families. Recent studies are indicating that epigenetic changes which affect gene expression via methylation may play a significant role in neuropsychiatric disorders. Does anyone think that Rh incompatibility could be playing a role in methylation, even for the first child? Also, could the apparent rise in some neuropsychiatric disorders be partly caused by medical interventions that increase survivability, and fertility, for Rh incompatible birth outcomes? In a sense, creating more Rh- carriers?


    Thanks.

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    These are big dilemmas Nasturtium. I don't thing anyone can give you a definitive answers to your questions. You need a serious scientific research with statistics to prove or disprove the mentioned correlations.
    Good luck in your quest.

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    Thanks for sharing.

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    Thanks for the post that brought me here. :)
    In addition we have completed last year a study indicating high incidence of health differences between rh negative homozygotes, rh positive heterozygotes and rh positive homozygotes.
    I cannot link here yet, but it's on Plos titled "Worse Health Status and Higher Incidence of Health Disorders in Rhesus Negative Subjects".

    There are also studies indicating strong differences in frequencies when it comes to mental health issues and behaviour.
    A people are more likely to commit suicide, develop OCD and high stress levels often worsen their overall health.

    O and B are more likely to commit murder for example.

    There is definitely a connection between physical and mental health. And with mental health come personality traits.

    There are plenty of more studies regarding schizophrenia, manic depression and so on.
    It's true that there is no ideal blood type to deal best with today's world. But it is important IMO to be aware of our blood type, what comes with it and how it can help us avoid suffering any type of illnesses we are most prone to.

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    My blood type is A+ (like that of my father, I guess). The blood type of my mother is O-. Her first born son (would be my older brother) was born death. I'm her second child and I was born premature and I was also a very sick baby (it is a miracle that I'm now 100% healthy).

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    There are also non ABO blood groups.

    According to 23andme I'm:


    Di(a-b+)

    " Immune responses to blood mismatched for the Diego blood group can cause moderate to severe transfusion reactions and mild to severe hemolytic disease of the newborn.

    The Diego blood group is interesting to anthropologists because the distribution of the various blood types is different in diverse populations from around the world. The Di(a) version of this blood group is mainly found in populations of Mongolian descent. It is found in 36% of South American Indians, 12% of Japanese, and 12% of Chinese, but is rare in Caucasians and Blacks (0.01%). Interestingly, the Di(a) antigen is less rare in the Polish population (0.47%) compared to most Caucasian populations (0.01%). This may reflect the invasion of Poland by Tatars (who have Mongolian heritage) many centuries ago. The Di(b) blood group antigen is found in almost every population.


    Frequencies of the Diego blood types:
    Di(a-b+) is found in more than 99.9% of Europeans and Africans and >90% of Asians.
    Di(a+b+) found in less than 0.1% of Europeans and Africans and in 10% of Asians.
    Di(a+b-) found in less than 0.01% of Europeans, Africans, and Asians.
    "


    K-k+
    Kp(a-b+)


    " Immune responses to blood mismatched for the Kell blood group can cause severe transfusion reactions and severe hemolytic disease of the newborn (reactions against K are stronger than against k, Kpa, or Kpb). In the case of hemolytic disease of the newborn, the mother's antibodies prevent red blood cells from being made in the fetus.

    The k version of this blood group antigen is much more common than the K version in most populations. The K-k+ blood type is found in 98% of Africans and 91% of people of European ancestry. Twenty-five percent of people with Arabic ancestry have the K version on their red blood cells. The Kp(a-b+) blood type is found in 97.7% of Europeans and 100% of Africans. "


    Jk(a+b+)

    " Immune responses to mismatched blood for the Kidd blood group can cause moderate transfusion reactions and mild hemolytic disease of the newborn. In fact, the reactions are so mild that antibodies against Kidd blood group antigens can be difficult to detect when a doctor does a cross-matching test, so transfusion reactions due to Kidd group mismatches end up happening more often than with other blood groups.

    It's possible not to have Kidd blood group antigens on your red blood cells due to a genetic change for which 23andMe does not report data. This genetic change is very rare and occurs only in people with Polynesian and Finnish ancestry.

    Frequencies of Kidd blood types:
    Jk(a+b+): 50% Europeans, 41% Africans, 49% Asians
    Jk(a+b-): 26% Europeans, 51% Africans, 23% Asians
    Jk(a-b+): 23% Europeans, 8% Africans, 27% Asians
    "

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    Any other reason than 'Mongoloid' ancestry in Poland why they have more 'Mongoloid Di(a) antigen (due to Tatar invasions) than most 'Caucasoid' populations??

    Di.jpg



    23andme.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    These are big dilemmas Nasturtium. I don't thing anyone can give you a definitive answers to your questions. You need a serious scientific research with statistics to prove or disprove the mentioned correlations.
    Good luck in your quest.
    I have spent the past 7 years researching this. In part it was digging up research that already existed, but was hard to find. Unfortunately 9 out of 10 Google results about the rh negative blood factor are from sites claiming that rh negative blood comes from aliens and reptilians and I blame for the most part the idiotic public for reacting so favorably towards nonsense overlooking simple scientific facts I am about to lay out. You will also when researching realize that there is financial interest not to educated people properly as policies in place actually not only ensure a generation of sick children of rh negative mothers, but also that the autism epidemy likely stems from those policies. Remember: The anti D shot for rh negative mothers became available in 1968. When exactly did the autism epidemy begin? ...

    And where has it hit? Do you think it is coincidence that this epidemy happened in the countries where policy dictates to give the anti D shot DURING the pregnancy rather than before or after?

    The damages done within the fetus happen twofold:
    1) Before the anti D shot, a fetus would just die being destroyed by the antibodies with no chance of survival. Now when the mom has antibodies, the fetus is unprotected allowing the anitbodies to eat up its brain cells which literally happens. Then rather than letting nature have its way, the saving shot keeps the damaged fetus alive.
    2) Aluminum and mercury interchangably had been ingredients in the shot which are bad enough for a mother but imagine those particles entering a tiny fetus ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasturtium View Post
    All sources say that the risk for Rh incompatibility between Rh- mom and Rh+ fetus occurs in second pregnancies. The sources indicate that the mother builds up the antibodies after delivery of the first incompatible child and generally only affects subsequent pregnancies. I just have to wonder though: why is that and could there be more subtle effects for the first child? Could a hostile womb environment be affecting gene expression for the first fetus?

    My husband and I are both Rh+, but both of our mom's are Rh-. Neither of us have any brother's or sisters (I guess a testament why Rh- is only 15% where it's common!). Our son is autistic and ASD/ADHD/mood disorders do run in our families. Recent studies are indicating that epigenetic changes which affect gene expression via methylation may play a significant role in neuropsychiatric disorders. Does anyone think that Rh incompatibility could be playing a role in methylation, even for the first child? Also, could the apparent rise in some neuropsychiatric disorders be partly caused by medical interventions that increase survivability, and fertility, for Rh incompatible birth outcomes? In a sense, creating more Rh- carriers?


    Thanks.
    I will go one by one on those and in the end link to my site where all of it is referenced in various places depending on the many subjects you are addressing.


    All sources say that the risk for Rh incompatibility between Rh- mom and Rh+ fetus occurs in second pregnancies. The sources indicate that the mother builds up the antibodies after delivery of the first incompatible child and generally only affects subsequent pregnancies. I just have to wonder though: why is that and could there be more subtle effects for the first child? Could a hostile womb environment be affecting gene expression for the first fetus?
    Chemical pregnancies are a phenomenon I have only seen in rh negative women. Then the amount of miscarriages before a first pregnancy being sky high in rh negative women .... all of those are indicators, very strong ones, that you suspicion is 100 percent correct and again dictates that all rh negative women need to have the shot BEFORE the first pregnancy, IF and ONLY IF their partners are rh positive. Of course, hospital lawyers will advise that having rh negative partners does not keep a woman from cheating, but the if and only if rule is the only feasible protecting you and your offspring from unnecessary injections and ensuring you get the injection if and WHEN you need it.


    My husband and I are both Rh+, but both of our mom's are Rh-.
    If your rh negative mothers have mothers who are rh positive, then likely they are born with the antibodies. just like the rh negative mom and the rh positive fetus connect via placenta interchanging blood, so do rh positive moms with the rh negative fetus ensuring that the rh negative baby is born with already developing antibodies, so a first pregnany with an rh positive baby will already affect the fetus.

    Neither of us have any brother's or sisters (I guess a testament why Rh- is only 15% where it's common!). Our son is autistic and ASD/ADHD/mood disorders do run in our families. Recent studies are indicating that epigenetic changes which affect gene expression via methylation may play a significant role in neuropsychiatric disorders. Does anyone think that Rh incompatibility could be playing a role in methylation, even for the first child?
    Yes, as stated above and also a lot more information I have written partially about, but will have to get back at a later time as it is incomplete and not yet ready to publish. SOrry about it, but I need to ensure every piece is backed by actual data to ensure it sticks.

    Also, could the apparent rise in some neuropsychiatric disorders be partly caused by medical interventions that increase survivability, and fertility, for Rh incompatible birth outcomes? In a sense, creating more Rh- carriers?
    Nature has its way of protecting "its own" and one thing to mention is a higher sex drive amongst rh negative women being proven, alongside the heterozygotes doing better than rh negatives and also rh positive homozygotes.

    Your question is the best I have ever seen at any forum, including my own except one from a lady that has caused me to start this research many years ago.

    For anyone critical of my post and rather listening to their doctor, I will link to a post of mine showing how wrong doctors can be and even brag online about knowledge which is wrong. Sadly, the policies in place are against rh negative mothers and doctors in general miseducated and unless they have a special interest in either the subject matter or your well being, their actions are quite likely harmful ( see: can you trust your doctor's judgement?)

    I see this post of yours is 4 years old, so I am not sure if you are still around. But if you have any follow up questions, please bring them as I would love to use this particular thread to gain additional visibility for issues that should be addressed a lot more and need to be brought to the attention of every single rh negative woman out there planning to ever have children.

    ~ Mike Dammann
    I am interested in genetic research in relations to the rh negative blood factor worldwide.

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