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Thread: R-L21* in Germany Thus Far

  1. #1
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Thumbs up R-L21* in Germany Thus Far



    Here is a list of surnames and places of ancestral origin of the German and German-Swiss men I know about who are R-L21*. Once again, keep in mind that L21 is an SNP that was just discovered last October and that was not included in Family Tree DNA's Deep Clade-R test until late January of 2009.

    1. Lurz - Draas, Romania (ethnic German minority)
    2. Marth - Baden-Württemberg
    3. Kepler - Baden-Württemberg
    4. Hammann - Rheinland-Pfalz
    5. Wigand - Bayern (Bavaria)
    6. Fix - Rheinland-Pfalz
    7. Schneider - Rheinland-Pfalz
    8. Bronk - Rheinland-Pfalz
    9. Krüger - Posen (modern Poznan, Poland)
    10. Wolken - Ostfriesland
    11. Meili - Zürich, Switzerland
    12. Hannold - Germany (exact location unknown, but the surname is common in Baden-Württemberg)
    13. Puderbach - Rheinland-Pfalz
    14. Müller - Bayern
    15. Roland - Baden-Württemberg
    16. Fankhauser - Trub, Switzerland
    17. Weidner - Germany (exact location unknown, but the surname is most common in Thüringen and Bayern)
    18. Tiedemann - Niedersachsen
    19. Kastler - Wahlern, Switzerland
    20. Heil - Hessen
    21. Reininger - Baden-Württemberg
    22. Becker - Rheinland-Pfalz

  2. #2
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L21 (S145, M529)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a2

    Ethnic group
    British/Irish
    Country: United States



    Cool

    Updating the list to add a new one.

    1. Lurz - Draas, Romania (ethnic German minority)
    2. Marth - Baden-Württemberg
    3. Kepler - Baden-Württemberg
    4. Hammann - Rheinland-Pfalz
    5. Wigand - Bayern (Bavaria)
    6. Fix - Rheinland-Pfalz
    7. Schneider - Rheinland-Pfalz
    8. Bronk - Rheinland-Pfalz
    9. Krüger - Posen (modern Poznan, Poland)
    10. Wolken - Ostfriesland
    11. Meili - Zürich, Switzerland
    12. Hannold - Germany (exact location unknown, but the surname is common in Baden-Württemberg)
    13. Puderbach - Rheinland-Pfalz
    14. Müller - Bayern
    15. Roland - Baden-Württemberg
    16. Fankhauser - Trub, Switzerland
    17. Weidner - Germany (exact location unknown, but the surname is most common in Thüringen and Bayern)
    18. Tiedemann - Niedersachsen
    19. Kastler - Wahlern, Switzerland
    20. Heil - Hessen
    21. Reininger - Baden-Württemberg
    22. Becker - Rheinland-Pfalz
    23. Immler - Bayern

  3. #3
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    You can just click on "Edit post" if you are just adding one line.

  4. #4
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    You can just click on "Edit post" if you are just adding one line.
    But would anyone see the post or notice the addition?

    Wouldn't the thread just drift fruther down the list and eventually onto page two?

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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    I always edit posts when I only make a minor modification, even months later. If there is enough new content then I create a new post.

  6. #6
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
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    Cool

    Since I have a couple more entries to add, I suppose it won't hurt to update the list and thereby bump this thread up.

    1. Lurz - Draas, Romania (ethnic German minority)
    2. Marth - Baden-Württemberg
    3. Kepler - Baden-Württemberg
    4. Hammann - Rheinland-Pfalz
    5. Wigand - Bayern (Bavaria)
    6. Fix - Rheinland-Pfalz
    7. Schneider - Rheinland-Pfalz
    8. Bronk - Rheinland-Pfalz
    9. Krüger - Posen (modern Poznan, Poland)
    10. Wolken - Ostfriesland
    11. Meili - Zürich, Switzerland
    12. Hannold - Germany (exact location unknown, but the surname is common in Baden-Württemberg)
    13. Puderbach - Rheinland-Pfalz
    14. Müller - Bayern
    15. Roland - Baden-Württemberg
    16. Fankhauser - Trub, Switzerland
    17. Weidner - Germany (exact location unknown, but the surname is most common in Thüringen and Bayern)
    18. Tiedemann - Niedersachsen
    19. Kastler - Wahlern, Switzerland
    20. Heil - Hessen
    21. Reininger - Baden-Württemberg
    22. Becker - Rheinland-Pfalz
    23. Immler - Bayern
    24. Haupt - Bayern
    25. Althoff - Nordrhein-Westfalen

  7. #7
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L21 (S145, M529)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a2

    Ethnic group
    British/Irish
    Country: United States



    Cool

    We have a new German R-L21* today: Waibel, whose ancestor came from Bad Hindelang in southern Bavaria, down near the Austrian border.

  8. #8
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: United States



    Smile

    By the way, that makes five Bavarians thus far; six, if one counts Goblirsch (a Bavarian surname) over in Bohemia in the Czech Republic.

  9. #9
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: United States



    Thumbs up

    There is a new German R-L21 as of this morning: Feldman (Feltmann), Ysearch 674QH. His ancestor was born in Westerkappeln in Nordrhein-Westfalen, just northwest of Osnabrück.

    (Just as an aside, recall that Hubert said the Goidels probably came from the area of Nordrhein-Westfalen.)

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    I have a question (sorry that I ask, first post here): what is the origin of L21, or can it be associated with any ancient cultures/peoples?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    I have a question (sorry that I ask, first post here): what is the origin of L21, or can it be associated with any ancient cultures/peoples?
    Thus far, it appears to have a connection to the ancient Celts, but it may go back to the Beaker Folk of the Bronze Age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Thus far, it appears to have a connection to the ancient Celts, but it may go back to the Beaker Folk of the Bronze Age.
    Oh yes, I see your point!

    Hmm... if you compare the distribution of L21 (well, I'm not up to date, I don't know how accurate my... well... actually mental map is ) with the spread of the Celts and the Beakers, there is a fairly good correlation with both (even though I wonder why L21 seems to be so rare in Iberia).

    However, as I ponder on that now, there is something that makes me think perhaps there is a closer correlation with the Beaker culture, namely that L21 is rather common in Scandinavia as well, wheras the Celts obviously never were in Scandinavia. Now, as far as I know, Beaker material has been found in Jutland. Since this was long before the Germanic ethnogenesis, it would be conceivable how the Germanic peoples inherited their share of L21.

    Oh, yes and I could imagine that L21 creates a "false signal" in Britain in regard for that old "acculturalization vs. immigration" dispute, because both the Britons and the Anglo-Saxons had their shares of L21 (assuming the Beaker hypothesis is correct).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    Oh yes, I see your point!

    Hmm... if you compare the distribution of L21 (well, I'm not up to date, I don't know how accurate my... well... actually mental map is ) with the spread of the Celts and the Beakers, there is a fairly good correlation with both (even though I wonder why L21 seems to be so rare in Iberia).

    However, as I ponder on that now, there is something that makes me think perhaps there is a closer correlation with the Beaker culture, namely that L21 is rather common in Scandinavia as well, wheras the Celts obviously never were in Scandinavia. Now, as far as I know, Beaker material has been found in Jutland. Since this was long before the Germanic ethnogenesis, it would be conceivable how the Germanic peoples inherited their share of L21.

    Oh, yes and I could imagine that L21 creates a "false signal" in Britain in regard for that old "acculturalization vs. immigration" dispute, because both the Britons and the Anglo-Saxons had their shares of L21 (assuming the Beaker hypothesis is correct).
    Right, except that things have changed lately regarding L21 in Iberia. L21 is not rare there, as one can see from a quick glance at the Y-DNA Results page of the Iberian Peninsula DNA Project ("R1b1b2a1b5" is FTDNA's designation for R-L21):

    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults

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    This thread might be a little old, but I am L-21 and my oldest paternal ancestor that I can find was Frederick Reith of Hannover, Lower Saxony Germany. He was born in 1836 and immigrated to the USA.

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