J1 and J2

[Templar]

Full image:http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3531/46003233.png

The European populations are over-lapping too much. I can't discern which name is which. Do you have one that zooms in on only Europe?

[Knovas]

The Baltic countries are candidates according to the Eurogenes Project to have retained the most Paleolithic element, and it's probably partly right despite of their language, but there's also some East Eurasian element among them. Overall they are surely very close, however, Basques could also be even having less Atlantic-Baltic influence, since they don't show any significant West Asian, African or East Eurasian. It's not easy to define as I said in other posts, we need well sampled Hunter Gatherers to run PCA with them and see who is the closest one.

I think it's possible to obtain an experiment like this with a better zoom, I hope both Eurogenes and Dienekes' will do so. The one I showed maskes some populations who overlap, it's true, but it's pretty clear that at the top we find French_Basques and Sardinians. Orcadians are also close to the top comming from the right corner, and they curiously use to show substantial Med/South Euro scores, linked with the Neolithic Farmers. So, as I said, what these global experiments reflect, must be taken seriously, since it cannot be casual when lots of samples from distant ethnic groups are included. It shows IMO what populations truly are in comparison with others, although no admixture percents appear.

[Templar]

The Baltic countries are candidates according to the Eurogenes Project to have retained the most Paleolithic element

Maybe there were different groups of Paleolithic hunter-gatherers. In the North-East they may have carried y-haplogroup N, while everywhere else it was I. That would explain why they retained alot of the Paleolithic element, despite speaking their language and having the physical appearance that they have.

[MOESAN]

Maybe there were different groups of Paleolithic hunter-gatherers. In the North-East they may have carried y-haplogroup N, while everywhere else it was I. That would explain why they retained alot of the Paleolithic element, despite speaking their language and having the physical appearance that they have.

I don't disagree as a whole but, - what have physical appearance and language that can contredict a Paleolithic hunter-gatherers origin? we should need surveys about the physical appearance of ALL Palélolithic men and the possible physical evolution that men can undergone under time, crossings and diet changes (even if I believe diet and way of life changes very little in this appearance) - and even if it is not so easy, a population can changes language, so the language as a criteria?... - - I 'm sure we forget that the last hunter-gatherers was MESOLITHIC PEOPLE and that movements of NEW people occurred after the L.G.M. some phenotypes appeared after 9000BC in Western Europe and surely they like others beared some Y-HGs and autosomals, did they not?

[sparkey]

Maybe there were different groups of Paleolithic hunter-gatherers. In the North-East they may have carried y-haplogroup N, while everywhere else it was I. That would explain why they retained alot of the Paleolithic element, despite speaking their language and having the physical appearance that they have.

I tend to agree with this, although I've struggled to find evidence for Haplogroup I having a Paleolithic presence in the Balkans, while I've found an abundance of evidence of Paleolithic I in Western and Central Europe. I can't say I have any good candidates for surviving haplogroups that would have been in the Balkans during the Paleolithic period. But, at least, we can say that Haplogroup I, which is more common nowadays in the Balkans than practically anywhere, is Paleolithic to Europe as a whole.

[Templar]

I tend to agree with this, although I've struggled to find evidence for Haplogroup I having a Paleolithic presence in the Balkans

I am starting to agree with the theory that haplogroup I's present distribution in the Balkans is the result of relatively recent migrations. Though this by itself doesn't reduce the strong likely-hood that the people themselves are largely descendants of Cro-Magnons.

[suzan]

New to the site.

I am J13c3 and after reading these comments on the thread, I am more confused that ever.

On 23andme, my results (ancestry painting) is 100% European. I am as fair haired with light blue eyes as you can be. So don’t understand the middle eastern connections, etc. I was adopted so but know my biological mother was as fair as me.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[Knovas]

I revised your profile suzan and, as expected, you're female xD

That means your Y-DNA cannot be traced without sampling a brother or your father. J1c3c corresponds to your Mt-DNA, and as far as I know, maternal lines in Europe tend to be much older than paternal ones. According to my knowledge concerning your subclade, it's typically Western European even considering that maternal J as group originated in the middle east. All Europeans nowadays have connections with the middle east, despite the fact are quite distant.

[jjmuneer123]

My paternal haplogroup is J1*, non-semitic. My maternal haplogroup is T1. Meant to of been a high maternal haplogroup in andronovo.