African mtDNA and Y-DNA in Iberia

It's an average of several studies. Adams found nearly 17% of E1b1b in Galicia (9% is only for E-M81). Flores found a stunning 31.6%, including 10% of E-M81 and 10% of E-M123.

The Adams paper has been heavily criticized and there are credibility issues surrounding it. I have no idea how Flores, et al. came up with such high figures. Perhaps someone here can provide perspective.
 
Galicia has only 1.49% of E1b1b according to this :
http://iberianroots.com/statistics/iberian_peninsula.html

You obviously cannot read. The total for E1b1b subclades in Galicia is 1.49% + 5.22% + 0.75% + 7.46% = 14.92%.

I am getting fed up of Iberians trying to deny the remotest connection with anything that sounds African (even if it isn't), be it haplogroup E, trying to prove that they are pure Celts, etc. I am not sure if you realise, but you look pathetic and childish (and complexed, I should add) for people from other countries.

Haplogroup E1b1b is present in all Europeans. We would look very different without it. Based on mtDNA, it seems that the Italo-Celts intermarried heavily with Near-Eastern farmers (whose paternal lineages were mostly E1b1b) when they penetrated into the Danube valley and settled in central Europe. In fact, Indo-European R1b looked a bit Mongoloid, so modern Europeans probably own their facial traits and head shape more to their Neolithic maternal ancestors than to Indo-Europeans. We got other things from Indo-Europeans, like red hair or lactose tolerance, though.

Celtic language was Indo-European, but borrowed heavily from Afro-Asiatic languages spoken in central Europe during the Neolithic. Latin itself borrowed even more words and grammar from Near-Eastern languages through Etruscan. The languages that remained "purest" or closest to the Proto-Indo-European are Balto-Slavic languages, especially Polish and Russian.

It's ironic that the original Indo-European homeland (roughly from Moldova to Georgia/Chechenya), which would give Europe bronze working, horse riding, chariots, swords, wool clothes, apples, plums, lactose tolerance, etc. is now the poorest, and in many ways most backwards, part of Europe.
 
Flores found a stunning 31.6%, including 10% of E-M81 and 10% of E-M123.

Pretty weird that study, they found 0% of haplogroups J and E in Catalonia??? :disappointed:

Besides the sample sizes are kinda lame (except for Seville and North Portugal).

Greetings.
 
You obviously cannot read. The total for E1b1b subclades in Galicia is 1.49% + 5.22% + 0.75% + 7.46% = 14.92%.
I am getting fed up of Iberians trying to deny the remotest connection with anything that sounds African (even if it isn't), be it haplogroup E, trying to prove that they are pure Celts, etc. I am not sure if you realise, but you look pathetic and childish (and complexed, I should add) for people from other countries.

Maciamo, I think some of us have gone over this with you. There are tremendous racial lies and exaggerations floating around about Iberians. I'm sure you can agree with that. And, who is trying to prove Iberians are "pure Celts"? I don't even believe there are definitive Celtic DNA markers, only people from Celtic cultures who may be somewhat related genetically. Moreover, I can't recall anyone claiming that Iberia is ALL Celtic or "pure" Celtic. I'm certainly not guilty of making such statements.

There are seriously pathological people in this world who seem to get great satisfaction by racially slandering certain ethnicities, and some are not just deranged racists. There is much correction to be done, I'm afraid...
 
Pretty weird that study, they found 0% of haplogroups J and E in Catalonia??? :disappointed:

Besides the sample sizes are kinda lame (except for Seville and North Portugal).

Greetings.

I am not sure it is so weird. The Basque country also lacks E and J. Catalonia only had a minor Greek influence, no Phoenician, no Near-Eastern farmers from the Balkans or Andalusia... I am sure there is some E and J in Catalonia, but it must be among the lowest in Iberia.
 
Catalonia had important settlement of sephardic communities, especially in Girona.

450px-Carrer_de_la_For%C3%A7a_Girona.jpg

Carrer de la For?a, Girona, Catalonia.

Some well-known catalonian surnames have sephardic roots. For example: Ferrer.

And the results in the Basque Country are irrelevant for this matter IMO.
 
No, the Jews had always been a minority, not just in Catalonia, but all Iberia. The peak popoulation was about 3% , in the muslim era. Most of the J found in Iberia is of roman, phoenician or greek origin.
The west coast of Iberia also received greeks who brought original greek E, see my post #16
 
They were a minority, but nobody can assume for sure how many they were.

Still 0% of J in Catalonia is laughable.
 
You obviously cannot read. The total for E1b1b subclades in Galicia is 1.49% + 5.22% + 0.75% + 7.46% = 14.92%.

I am getting fed up of Iberians trying to deny the remotest connection with anything that sounds African (even if it isn't), be it haplogroup E, trying to prove that they are pure Celts, etc. I am not sure if you realise, but you look pathetic and childish (and complexed, I should add) for people from other countries.

Haplogroup E1b1b is present in all Europeans. We would look very different without it. Based on mtDNA, it seems that the Italo-Celts intermarried heavily with Near-Eastern farmers (whose paternal lineages were mostly E1b1b) when they penetrated into the Danube valley and settled in central Europe. In fact, Indo-European R1b looked a bit Mongoloid, so modern Europeans probably own their facial traits and head shape more to their Neolithic maternal ancestors than to Indo-Europeans. We got other things from Indo-Europeans, like red hair or lactose tolerance, though.

Celtic language was Indo-European, but borrowed heavily from Afro-Asiatic languages spoken in central Europe during the Neolithic. Latin itself borrowed even more words and grammar from Near-Eastern languages through Etruscan. The languages that remained "purest" or closest to the Proto-Indo-European are Balto-Slavic languages, especially Polish and Russian.

It's ironic that the original Indo-European homeland (roughly from Moldova to Georgia/Chechenya), which would give Europe bronze working, horse riding, chariots, swords, wool clothes, apples, plums, lactose tolerance, etc. is now the poorest, and in many ways most backwards, part of Europe.

No one here has said that Iberians are pure Celt. No one.. We perfectly know we are Celtiberians, with heavy Iberian component, not just Celt.
Plus, anybody here denies the african haplogroups in Europe, there are other european countries with much more E than Spain, for example Austria or Serbia which has heavy amounts of E, so I don't understand why do you create an exlcusively thread of the AFRICAN admixture of Iberia, as If Spain was the only country with it, and not admixture of all Europe..
 
Plus, anyone here denies the E haplogroups, there are other european countries with much more E than Spain, for example Serbia has heavy amounts of E, so I don't understand why do you create an exlcusively thread of the AFRICAN admixture of Spain, as If Spain was the only country with E., and not admixture of all Europe

Actually, I created this thread because there was so much interest/discussion about Iberia on the forum lately. It's also because Iberia has very diverse types of E1b1b, unlike most other European countries which have mostly E-V13 and E-M78 from the Balkans.

I was also wondering why a place like Galicia, with no recorded settlement from the Near East or North Africa, should have so much E1b1b. We could imagine a Paleolithic migration for E-M81, but how about the E-M123 from the Middle East ? Unknown Phoenician settlement ? I still do not have the answer.
 
You perfectly know Maciamo that we have to be very wary with this Iberian E studies. Because somes studies like this*, which attributes exclusively all the E to the North Africans of the Muslim era, and all the J to the Sephardic Jews. Ridiculous. And now, most people believe in that study. In Spain, in the TV news talked about this study, in the papers, the radio, go search in the internet in forums people around the world talk about this study, all mainstream people believes now that Spain is 20% Sephardic Jew or 10% Moor. This is the purpose, this is the agenda of some of this so-called scientists. There are probably political reasons behind this. Making people believe something they are not. Confuse them about their true ethnicity.

*http://download.cell.com/AJHG/pdf/PIIS0002929708005922.pdf
 
You perfectly know Maciamo that we have to be very wary with this Iberian E studies. Because somes studies like this*, which attributes exclusively all the E to the North Africans of the Muslim era, and all the J to the Sephardic Jews. Ridiculous. And now, most people believe in that study. In Spain, in the TV news talked about this study, in the papers, the radio, go search in the internet in forums people around the world talk about this study, all mainstream people believes now that Spain is 20% Sephardic Jew or 10% Moor. This is the purpose, this is the agenda of some of this so-called scientists. There are probably political reasons behind this. Making people believe something they are not. Confuse them about their true ethnicity.

*http://download.cell.com/AJHG/pdf/PIIS0002929708005922.pdf

This type of garbage research needs to be be aggressively challenged and debunked, once and for all. Why aren't Spanish government agencies combating this?
 
What I also find strange about that study is how the hell did they manage to create this 19.8% of sephardic, when their same study for haplogroup J is about 9% for al Spain !! And all the EXACT 10.3% of E, ALL attributed to the north african rule. I don't know what the hell is crossing their minds...

How is that posible that Southern Iberia has only 2.5% of North African contribution*, when we know the South was the most populated (thoug minoritary) area by moors of all Iberia ?
* http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/21/7/1361/T03
 
Many thanks for those interesting messages. But I do not understand:
"R 1b looks a little mongoloid. ". I do not think that northwest Europeans
who has a lot of haplogroup R1b , have some mongoloid dna. Whole
West-Europa is lacking mongoloid ancestors.

Erik
 
They were a minority, but nobody can assume for sure how many they were.

Still 0% of J in Catalonia is laughable.
According to this :

"El judío Hasdai Ibn Shaprut (915-970), llegó a ser uno de los hombres de confianza del califa Abderraman III. En cuanto a su número, se calcula que a finales del siglo XV había unos 50.000 judíos en Granada y unos 100.000 en toda la Iberia islámica.[16] " Wasserstein, 1995, p. 101.
In the XV century , Iberian population was about 6.000.000, so that makes them about 1.7% of the total population of Iberia
 
Thanks for the info Wilhelm.

This type of garbage research needs to be be aggressively challenged and debunked, once and for all. Why aren't Spanish government agencies combating this?

:LOL::LOL:

lol, I know that all this latin american anti-iberian trollism from panchos with no self-esteem like Sirious2b can be really irritating sometimes, and that there are a lot of ridiculous "projects" going around like DNA tribes. But I find a little bit exaggerated to make a criminal prosecution of it. :LOL:
 
What I also find strange about that study is how the hell did they manage to create this 19.8% of sephardic, when their same study for haplogroup J is about 9% for al Spain !! And all the EXACT 10.3% of E, ALL attributed to the north african rule. I don't know what the hell is crossing their minds...

How is that posible that Southern Iberia has only 2.5% of North African contribution*, when we know the South was the most populated (thoug minoritary) area by moors of all Iberia ?
* http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/21/7/1361/T03

The earlier referenced study has been debunked by any number of population geneticists. It's flawed beyond belief.
 
Last edited:
I am getting fed up of Iberians trying to deny the remotest connection with anything that sounds African (even if it isn't), be it haplogroup E, trying to prove that they are pure Celts, etc. I am not sure if you realise, but you look pathetic and childish (and complexed, I should add) for people from other countries.

As a citizen of other country I couldn't agree more with this statement.
Iberian guys, it's surely fine to believe what you believe, I understand your desire to like all research that supports your believes, and not agree with ones that don't. Human thing, I do that too.
The thing that bothers me is your total disrespect to anyone of different views. One thing is not to agree with point of view, other to bunch together, bully and throw epithets against an unfortunate sole that happens to express his/her opinion on Iberian forums. You basically prosecute people of different views, it's like Spanish Inquisition all over again.
Did someone give you the licence for the Truth?
Are you the chosen ones?
Genetics in archaeological and cultural context is quite new. For years it will be corrected, checked and corrected again. We are here to learn, discover, socialise and make friends. Let's talk about this, argue about this, have fun about this,...but with respect gentlemen, please, with respect.

PS. And no, I'm not Mexican.
 
This type of garbage research needs to be be aggressively challenged and debunked, once and for all. Why aren't Spanish government agencies combating this?

I advise you to call 1-800-INQUISITOR












PS. Sorry, I know it was too easy, but I couldn't help myself. :LOL:
 

This thread has been viewed 114843 times.

Back
Top