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Thread: National identity in european ex-colonies.

  1. #1
    ^ lynx ^
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    National identity in european ex-colonies.



    I've just found out that everywhere I go on the internet (even this asian forum about Philipines) i always find a little bit of animosity towards Spain or any other former countries of the ancient Spanish Empire, even 200 years after it's destruction.


    I can't believe we're still suffering from this.

    Yeah, yeah, dont give me this b_ll crap that we are just proud of our hispanic, american or western heritage or influence or that we are just trying to nurture or preserve or embrace our so called western heritage or that we are just trying to realise the 'ang hindi lumingon sa pinanggalingan di makararating sa paroroonan'- i really don't know what 'pinanggalingan' pertains to - Malay or Spanish, but the truth is filipinos just can't get enough of this.

    I will be very frank, this is the very wrong kind of mentality and identity we are trying to build for ourselves.

    Other countries or races see us as nothing but a cheap, sellout race. Try to go to ther countries or much easier just visit sites like stormfront, vnn, etc and see how they view Filipinos. You Filipinos try to hispanicize yourselves so badly that it actually start to look very funny. Ask a Mexican or other South American if they consider us one of them. No, they think we a 'chineses', and that we have fake surnames, and that we never have a drop of European blood in us even if some have. Our culture is viewed as nothing but a watered down version of Mexican culture. Likewise, Mexicans try so hard to be like Spaniards, the Spaniards laugh at them.

    You see no matter how hard you try, the Spanish world will never consider you equal to them. or no matter how we try to imitate western culture or traditions or celebrations, itll always be seen as a try hard attempt by the Europeans or Americans, or no matter how hard some Filipino boys try to be ghetto, theyll never be 'sleek'.

    You know what my solution is, just give them the middle finger, and the f word and tell them they can shove their culture and tradition in their ...

    I think its time we start to become ethnocentric like korea or japan, it actually did them some good. only when Filipinos start to see their 'genetic composition' just as good or even superior to others the Philippines will begin prosper.

    You also need to reengineer your economy.

    You see, the Japanese tried to redesign their economy and technology and clean their streets just so they would be considered equals to the white men. but no it didnt happen. The Japanese, no matter how hard they try, will never be equal to white men. but the Japanese just said forget about it, we will instead try to surpass the white men. and they did, IQ wise, or so called Iq and tech wise.

    Its time to do the same.

    can someone tell me the skull capacity of Malays.
    http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/inde...owtopic=211528


    So I'm just wondering: How these countries (Mexico, Philipines, etc.) managed to create a national identity? What can be done to erase any sing of historic resentment left? I know the same happens in certains countries of Africa towards France or Portugal, for example.

    Greetings.

  2. #2
    ^ lynx ^
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    Some are even tying to built their own nation into one that already exists: http://www.mexica-movement.org/

  3. #3
    ^ lynx ^
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    repost. Sorry.
    Last edited by ^ lynx ^; 08-01-10 at 21:05. Reason: repost

  4. #4
    ^ lynx ^
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    From USA's point of view:

    Spain and Latin America

    One of Spain's major foreign policy objectives since the advent of democracy has been to increase its influence in Latin America. Spain has a special interest in this area because of historical ties and a common linguistic, cultural, and religious heritage. In the post-Franco years, economic investments and diplomatic initiatives were added to the more nostalgic links between Spain and its former colonies.

    Relations between Spain and Latin America have undergone profound transformation since Spain's imperial days. Resentment of Spain as the imperial power continued long after the colonial period, because many Latin Americans blamed Spain for their lack of progress and for their problems with democratization. In the early years of independence, the attitude of most Latin Americans was one of disdain for Spain. This changed, following the Spanish-American War in 1898. The devastating defeat inflicted upon Spain by the United States combined with increased United States interference in Latin America led the two Hispanic areas to draw closer together in the face of a common enemy. Both Spain and Latin America began to re-emphasize their common ties of culture, language, and religion, although trade, diplomatic, and political relations between the two areas remained minimal.

    During the 1950s, modernized methods of communications and transportation facilitated closer contacts between Spain and Latin America. Trade increased, and Spain's rapid economic growth in the 1960s and the 1970s enabled the country to approach its relations with Latin America from a position of greater economic strength. A paradoxical foreign policy phenomenon during this period was the refusal of the fiercely anticommunist Franco to break off relations with Fidel Castro Ruz's Marxist Cuba. In this instance, historical ties appeared to take precedence over ideology.

    After Franco's death, Spain's transition to a democratic form of government was paralleled by the establishment of various forms of democratic rule in some Latin American countries. The timing of these governmental changes was largely coincidental, although Spain offered its transition process as an example for Latin America to follow.

    The democratization process in Spain caused a reorientation of Spanish foreign policy. Under Suarez, Spain pursued a more aggressive foreign policy, which included giving increased attention to Latin America. Both Suarez and King Juan Carlos made official visits to most of the Latin American countries, and Spanish investment in the area increased markedly. When war broke out between Britain and Argentina over the Falkland Islands (Malvinas) in the spring of 1982, Spain supported Argentina's claim to the islands, even though the Spanish government opposed the military junta that ruled Argentina at the time.

    When the Socialists came to power in 1982, Foreign Minister Fernando Moran asserted that the amount of influence Spain could exert in Europe and on the United States would depend on Spain's maintaining special relationships outside these areas, particularly with Latin America. In keeping with this policy, the Socialist government created a special assistance program for Latin America that had a budget of tens of millions of dollars in 1985.

    A particular area of concern for Gonzalez was the intensifying conflict in Central America. Under his leadership, Spain took an active part in the Contadora Group, an association of Latin American republics seeking peaceful solutions to the bloody struggles in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Nicaragua.

    Before becoming prime minister, Gonzalez had been involved in the articulation of the Socialist International's policies toward Latin America and had served as the president of that organization's committee for the support of the Nicaraguan Revolution, which was formed in 1980. Although Gonzalez was sympathetic to the early goals of the Sandinistas, who had seized power in 1979, he later became highly critical of their radical Marxist policies. He favored the more pragmatic approach of Latin America's social democrats.

    It became increasingly apparent that the prime minister's moderate views were in marked contrast to the Marxist orientation of his foreign minister. Gonzalez was also less stridently antiAmerican than Moran. Although critical of United States actions in both Nicaragua and El Salvador, the prime minister recognized that the United States had legitimate interests in the area and that it could not be excluded from the negotiating process. These increasingly divergent views between Gonzalez and his foreign minister led to the latter's removal in the summer of 1985.

    Moran's successor, Francisco Fernandez Ordonez, followed a more restrained approach--calling for Spain to be the IberianAmerican conscience of Europe--in furthering Spain's active role in Latin America. Spain continued to support efforts for a peaceful resolution to the strife in Central America. In January 1988, Nicaraguan president Daniel Ortega requested that Spain take part in the verification of the peace process in Central America. Gonzalez accepted the proposal, provided that the other Central American governments were in agreement and that a ceasefire were in effect. The prime minister reiterated his support of the Contadora Group and emphasized that the countries involved had the ultimate responsibility for finding a solution to the conflict. He also called for an end to United States aid for the armed forces fighting against the Sandinista government (Contras) so that the peace plan could be implemented.

    Although Spain had again become a significant presence in Latin America in the 1980s, there was no indication that it was on the way to supplanting the United States in the region, or, indeed, that it wanted to assume that role. At the same time, a vital sense of Hispanic commonality between Spain and Latin America appeared likely to continue.
    http://countrystudies.us/spain/90.htm

  5. #5
    ^ lynx ^
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    We already got good examples of anti-spanish animosity in this forum... just like Sirious2b, and his multiple clones:

    Trollhattan: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/member.php?u=28019
    maltesekid: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/member.php?u=28038
    Sirious itself: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/member.php?u=28000

  6. #6
    ^ lynx ^
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    You Filipinos try to hispanicize yourselves so badly that it actually start to look very funny. Ask a Mexican or other South American if they consider us one of them. No, they think we a 'chineses', and that we have fake surnames, and that we never have a drop of European blood in us even if some have. Our culture is viewed as nothing but a watered down version of Mexican culture. Likewise, Mexicans try so hard to be like Spaniards, the Spaniards laugh at them.
    http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/inde...owtopic=211528


    This paragraph and Sirious' behaviour also make me wonder: Do some latin americans feel frustrated by their native roots?






    Is their obsessive animosity towards Iberia a way to spread out that frustration?

    Greetings.

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    Cultural Cringe :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_cringe

    Mexico

    Mexico has experienced sustained cultural cringe dating back to the colonial period where European born people called Peninsulares or Gachupines, were privileged with access the best positions of authority and commerce while Mexican born Spaniards, even if they were 100% European with no indigenous admixture, were barred from such privileges. This lead to the suppression of Mexican developments in favor of importing everything from Europe such as: Machinery, Lawyers, governors, culture, art, science and the common world view among the colonists which was a facsimile of that of Europe.

    Today the cultural cringe is still prevalent throughout Mexico where foreign cultures, attitudes, technologies, arts, and academics are seen much more favorably than Mexico's own indigenous scholars, technologies and artists. The result of this has been Brain drain as competent and talented Mexicans choose to move abroad, mostly to the U.S., where they can develop their skills and practice their talents. In the Mexican popular media, news anchors and variety show hosts, Telenovela actors and actresses are distinctly white despite the fact that most of the Mexican population is Mestizo or Indian. [27] This phenomenon still resonates the old colonial attitude of the Caste system which favored the European image, culture and aesthetics over Mexican development which it perceives as inferior or substandard.

  8. #8
    ^ lynx ^
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    Racism and endophobia in mexican media and its impact on mexican population have already been discussed. I think this problem make some of them even more frustrated and full of rage.

    http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives...co_slow_to.php

    Mexico Slow to Confront Racial Issues, Experts Say

    Lennox Samuels, Dallas Morning News

    MEXICO CITY—The man visiting from the south of Spain was having a revelation as he walked along Michoacan Street in the city’s fashionable Condesa section.

    “There are an awful lot of brown people on the street,” he exclaimed. “You don’t get that at all from the mexican TV and advertising.”

    Foreigners in Mexico City who look at Mexican television—or movies or magazines or anything with human faces on it—could be excused for thinking they had landed in a European city.

    Officially, Mexico’s population is mestizaje—a mixture of White and Indian, or mestizos. But the country’s political, business, social and cultural elite is dominated by White descendants of Spanish conquistadors, while mixed-race, indigenous and Black people generally are relegated to supporting roles in society.

    Mexico has taken major steps toward democracy but lags significantly on civil rights, analysts say. The nation, they say, harbors racism and is years away from addressing it because few in positions of power understand or even acknowledge the situation, and many of those affected by it have long accepted the status quo.

    But Indian activist Abel Barrera said indigenous people have long been at the bottom of society.

    “They are considered second-class persons,” said Barrera, director of the Human Rights Center in Tlapa, Guerrero. “Throughout history, they have been stigmatized for their languages, religious expressions and culture.”

    In a speech recently, Fox sought to embrace the Indians.

    “Cultural diversity of the indigenous people is an essential part of our national being and enriches us as a nation,” he said. “The indigenous people in Mexico are not part of the past; they belong in the present, and together we are building the future.”

    Neither he nor any other top official has made such a statement about Black people. No one even has a firm idea how many Blacks there are in the country, although the government estimates 500,000 Afro-Mexicans live along the Costa Chica, which covers the states of Guerrero and Oaxaca.

    Most history textbooks have little if any reference to Mexican Blacks, who were brought into the country by the Spanish. Sintesis de la Historia de Mexico (Synthesis of Mexico’s History), a textbook used in junior high school, devotes less than one of its 405 pages to Black Mexicans.

  9. #9
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    On youtube it's very easy to find latin americans ****** like these:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/SpaniardsAreGypsy
    http://www.youtube.com/user/MoorishPrideMouro

    Notice the racist and homophobic remarks.

    Which kind of sick person can expend hours and hours of his life in such cr*p???

    You'll never find such animosity from spaniards towards latin americans... nowhere.

  10. #10
    ^ lynx ^
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    Para nosotros en latinoamérica (Así, latinoamérica, no íbero ni hispanoamèrica) el odio hacia España es el sentimiento màs habitual y justo. No podemos olvidar que el hombre que violò a nuestra abuela india fue un gallego abusòn y de poca inteligencia. Para nosotros si a España le va mal, mucho mejor.
    ^ A description of archetypical latin american from a latin american citizen.

    http://www.guillermourbizu.com/2008/...e-siempre.html

  11. #11
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    A very interesting report from PBS: Chile: The New Nazis. Definetly a must see.

    Some screencaps:












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    Quote Originally Posted by ^ lynx ^ View Post
    A very interesting report from PBS: Chile: The New Nazis. Definetly a must see.

    Some screencaps:











    What is the true percentage of whites in Chile? I've been to Chile twice and the majority of people I encountered were indigenous or mestizo. Whites, in percentage terms, are less in Chile compared to neighboring Argentina.

    The figure given for "whites" in Chile is 52% of the population.

  13. #13
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    Chile is somehow like Mexico. Its population is mostly and strongly mestizo, then they have some indigenous ethnic minorities who remain with their pre-colombian style-of-life such as mapuches or aymaras:



    The percentage of white population in Chile is estimated in 10 or 15%.

    And like Mexico, these percentages are not reflected in chilean media. When you look at their television, magazines or advertising you only get to see europeans-look-a-like. So it's not a surprise that some of these countries suffer from identity crisis.

    Greetings.

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    Light mestizoes, Jews, Arabs, middle-easterns, are also considered Whites in their census,, so, if we talk about whole European descend (aka White) , it would be around 15% or maybe less

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cambria Red View Post
    The figure given for "whites" in Chile is 52% of the population.
    That's what the wikipedia says but it's highly unlikely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ^ lynx ^ View Post
    That's what the wikipedia says but it's highly unlikely.
    Yeah, no kidding... Lately, WIKI has turned into a warehouse of erroneous information. What's going on with management over there?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cambria Red View Post
    What's going on with management over there?
    I guess they are feed up with biased-trollism. I don't blame them I can feel their pain actually.

  18. #18
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    Interesting article about Filipinas.

    Our Philippine identity

    ROSES & THORNS By Alejandro R. Roces (The Philippine Star) Updated December 22, 2009 12:00 AM

    “The past is the present, isn’t it? It’s the future, too. We all tried to lie out of that but life won’t let us.” — Eugene O’Neill

    Filipinos are undergoing an identity crisis. Every cultural trait is being subjected to the question: “Is it Filipino?” We are still looking for an answer. The answer to “What is Filipino?” lies in the prejudicial question, “What is culture?” It is culture that makes a Filipino a Filipino and not a Malaysian or Indonesian.

    Culture has been defined as “that complex whole which includes knowledge, belief, art, morals, custom and any other capabilities and habits acquired by man as a member of society.” To be human is to belong to a culture. Four elements present in all cultures are: technology, institutions, language and arts. These can change in only two ways: by invention or by borrowing. Things invented are part of the indigenous culture of the society which brought them forth; things adopted, or adapted, became part of our indigenous cultures; Spanish and English, part of our national culture.
    The “real Filipino” had been defined as a “decolonized Filipino.” We take exception to this on two grounds. First, it totally disregards the positive aspects of colonialism. It is true that the Spaniards failed to integrate themselves with the natives. As a matter of fact, they couldn’t even identify with the Philippine-born Spaniards or with the Spanish mestizos. But Spain had more advanced techniques and a much higher degree of civilization than this archipelago. In the process of colonization, they did diffuse their culture and created a new synthesis and a new unity that was richer and more varied than what existed in the islands before.

    Second, to decolonize means to bring to a pre-colonial status. To reduce nationalism to colonialism spelled backwards is to emulate the Mediterranean sailors who guarded themselves against the fatal sirenical songs by singing them in reverse. To decolonize the national language would mean the purging of thousands of Spanish words that have been assimilated into Filipino and the abandonment of the Roman alphabet for the syllabic script. If there is anything more reactionary than going back to colonialism, it is going back to pre-colonialism. Prehistoric Philippines was not a Garden of Eden from which our forefathers were expelled because they ate of the tree of colonialism. In every stage of his formation, the Filipino was himself plus his circumstances. He lives in his culture as his culture lived in him. What is needed is redirection. The future is alterable, the past is not. The objective should not be a decolonized Filipino, but a supra-colonial Filipino.

    Progress is not a natural law. The wheel was 46 centuries old when Spain introduced it in the Philippines. What one generation gains may be lost by the succeeding ones. Aside from the fact that culture is acquired, shared, transmitted and gratifying to human needs, culture gravitates towards integration. It was Spanish acculturation that homogenized Philippine society. After the initial resistance to Spanish conquest (the Spanish Army in 1590 was composed of 400 men) and the inertia that blocked urbanization had been overcome, the Filipinos were very receptive to Christian acculturation. Some people ridicule the mass baptisms during the initial period of Christianization, but France, England and other major Christian nations were converted in much the same way. There were uprisings against forced labor, feudalistic monopoly, friar abuses, but not against the technological, institutional, linguistic and artistic benefits of Christian civilization.

    By the last decade of the 19th century, the descendants of the diverse barangays could already think of themselves as one people with a growing sense of unity and nationhood. They became the first Asians to declare their independence from colonial rule. The Revolution, indeed, signaled the birth of a nation. The placenta was Spain’s. With the American occupation, the mother got buried along with the afterbirth. The Tagalogs have a saying: “Ang hindi marunong lumingon sa pinanggalingan, ay hindi makararating sa paroroonan.” It is their folk way of saying that nations without a past have no future.

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    @Maciamo asked you specifically not to open a thread like this one anymore.



    When he reads this, he will know that you directly are violating his directives.

    Just a comment: I know why you open this thred.

    You think that I created some clones named @Maltesekid and @Trollthan in the new thread about Iberians.

    Wrong, wrong, wrong...

    I KNOW that other WN (don't ask ) simply do not want you in the club.

    (But I will not elaborate: That's your problem and your fkng KARMA.)

    I will report this thread.

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    I am closing this thread as it is not about Europe. I have closed other similar threads before and asked not open similar ones about Latin American colonies. Repeat offenders might get banned. You have been warned.

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