Fustanella

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Neander said:
I don't think so. Actually "Dudy" must be of celtic origin, because there is e big similarity with scotish bagpipes, but albanian bagpipes together with greek and yougoslavic are very diferent from scotish ones. .
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Actually the Albanian name gajde, points into it's Celtic or roman origin, gaita. Could be vice verse but quite unlikely.

Name Dudy is purely Slavic. It means to blow air. Also means load sound but that could originate from the instrument name.
English name bagpipe is quite recent and might mean luck of long or continuous traditions with this instrument.
 
^ lynx ^ said:
As far as I know, only Northern Portugal use the bagpipe. And they've adopted the galician one recently because its own was almost dissapeared, only the zone of Tras os Montes had conserved their own bagpipe (gaita de fole) which is also typical of Zamora (Castille):

http://www.farodevigo.es/secciones/...e-Portugal-recupera-gaita-metodo-gallego-Foxo

Greetings.
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Gaitas are also played in the Beiras and the Serra da Estrela regions, but you find many more organized pipe bands in Minho, Douro and Tras-os-Montes.
 
^ lynx ^ said:
As far as I know, only Northern Portugal use the bagpipe. And they've adopted the galician one recently because its own was almost dissapeared, only the zone of Tras os Montes had conserved their own bagpipe (gaita de fole) which is also typical of Zamora (Castille):
http://www.farodevigo.es/secciones/...e-Portugal-recupera-gaita-metodo-gallego-Foxo
Greetings.
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Damn, maybe they are related lol. Polish highlander from Galicia.
Only pants are different, but that's a recent invention.
http://zdjecia.polska.pl/katalog/galeria,Gorale,gid,259867,cid,9,view,short.htm?sh=10
 

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Actually the Albanian name gajde, points into it's Celtic or roman origin, gaita. Could be vice verse but quite unlikely.
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The origin of the name is not as the origin of one thing. F.ex. one nation can borrow any invention and creating his own word for that, and another nation can create invetion and borrow the word.

In albanian and yugoslavic languages is not any word for "linen", it is borrowed from turkish, but does that mean that all Balkan lacked linen before coming of turks who were probably more primitive then natives??
 
LeBrok said:
Damn, maybe they are related lol. Polish highlander from Galicia.
Only pants are different, but that's a recent invention.
http://zdjecia.polska.pl/katalog/galeria,Gorale,gid,259867,cid,9,view,short.htm?sh=10
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Gorales must be, of partly illyrian origin, since albanian words like "vatra" (fire) and, "magura" (stone place) are found in their language, and they are dinarics like other inhabitants of Carpathians and dinaric alps.

But now what we can say, is the Goraly gajde borrowed from celtic or it is native illyrian gajde?
 
I have another idea:

1. celtics had tartan but they lacked fustanella.
2. Balkans had fustanella but they lacked tartan.
3. Scotish have both fustanella and tartan, and thier fustanellas are made of tartan.

I think celtic culture mixed with balkanic and created proto=scotish culture.
 
Neander said:
I have another idea:

1. celtics had tartan but they lacked fustanella.
2. Balkans had fustanella but they lacked tartan.
3. Scotish have both fustanella and tartan, and thier fustanellas are made of tartan.

I think celtic culture mixed with balkanic and created proto=scotish culture.
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Read J. Koch's book, Tartessian: Celtic from the South-west. The theory that is quickly growing in acceptance is that Celticity originated in Southern Portugal and Southwest Spain and then spread North and East trough trade and migration. Later there was Celtic circulation back to Iberia and north.

The Scottish do have pleated kilts, but they are a different style than what is found in the Balkans.
 
Neander said:
Gorales must be, of partly illyrian origin, since albanian words like "vatra" (fire) and, "magura" (stone place) are found in their language, and they are dinarics like other inhabitants of Carpathians and dinaric alps.

But now what we can say, is the Goraly gajde borrowed from celtic or it is native illyrian gajde?
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I think they invented dudy. If you already have a flute, how difficult is to attached leather suck to it?
The oldest record of bagpipe is from middle east, then Greece and Rome. Do you think it came to Illyria from these countries or Albanians invented it? If the later, do you have a proof or just guessing?

What is the oldest record, artifact of gajde in Illyria? Pre Celtic?

magura, gura, gora is in all Slavic languages. What does that mean? Pre Illyrian?
 
LeBrok said:
I think they invented dudy. If you already have a flute, how difficult is to attached leather suck to it?
The oldest record of bagpipe is from middle east, then Greece and Rome. Do you think it came to Illyria from these countries or Albanians invented it? If the later, do you have a proof or just guessing?

What is the oldest record, artifact of gajde in Illyria? Pre Celtic?

magura, gura, gora is in all Slavic languages. What does that mean? Pre Illyrian?
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Weel you have the right to think that they invented dudy.

But in the ancient times "they" were not "they". They became slavic after slavic invasion, just like south slavic people.

Here you can see "goraly trousers" which are mostly similar to albanian trousers:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...defuhrwerke_^_Kutschen_^_sonstige_Kutsche.jpg

And here albanian trousers:

http://dedgjoluli.org/attachments/Image/Ded_Gjo_Luli_me_Kolen_Deden.jpg

It has been proposed that some Goral words such as magura ("mountain/hill") and vatra ("fireplace") may have an Illyrian or Dacian origin, however, little is known about these now-extinct languages. Mazurzenie may occur.
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Substratum words of Vlach origin suggest that Gorals have been in contact with Balkan peoples, through trade or cultural interactions. Some Vlachs may even have settled in this area of the Carpathian Mountains between the 14th to 17th centuries, and then merged with the Goral population.
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Add here the dinaric race,and you know what they were in ancient times.

And I don't care if "Gaide" or "Dudy", was invented in Albania, Romania, Dalmacia, or Goraly place, since while they were one race it is not important.

However, Gaide or Dudy is not any advanced technologial tool, therefore it must have been invented since the time when people have in disposition the leather and wood, also a good knife to produce that.
 
Here is the definiton of VATËR (VATRA) in albanian vocabulary:

VATËR f. sh.
1. Vendi rrëzë oxhakut, pak si i thelluar, i shtruar
me rrasa guri, me pllaka etj., ku ndizet zjarri. Vatra
e zjarrit. Rri pranë vatrës. Mblidhemi rreth vatrës.
U ul në krye të vatrës.
2. Pjesa e poshtme e furrës, e farkës; e sobës etj.,
ku ndizen e digjen drutë, qymyri etj. Vatra e furrës
(e farkës).
3. Hapësirë fare e vogël, vend i ngushtë sa për të
ndezur zjarr; lehe, vulla. Një vatër vend. Kishte
mbjellë një vatër qepë.
4. fig. Shtëpia ku kemi lindur e jemi rritur, ku banon
familja a ku kanë jetuar të parët tanë brez pas
brezi; familja; kryes. sh. vendi ku kemi lindur e
jetojmë, vendlindja. Vatër e dashur (e shtrenjtë).
Vatra atërore (prindërore). Vatra e të parëve ( e
stërgjyshërve).Vëllezër të një vatre vëllezër që
kanë lindur e janë rritur në një shtëpi. Mik vatre
mik i afërt, mik i shtëpisë. Në çdo vatër. Mbeti pa
vatër. Njeri pa strehë e pa vatër. Më merr malli
për vatrën time. I ra fatkeqësia në vatër. Mbrojmë
vatrat tona. Lënë vatrat e tyre. Armiku na shkeli
(na shkatërroi) vatrat tona.
5. fig. Vendi ku lind e zhvillohet diçka, vendi prej
nga vjen a përhapet diçka, burimi i diçkaje; vendi a
pika që tërheq vëmendjen më të madhe; qendra e
një veprimtarie a e diçkaje tjetër; çerdhe; djep.
Vatër revolucionare (patriotike). Vatër e
rëndësishme e luftës çlirimtare. Vatër shkencore
(kulturore). Vatër kulture (përparimi). Vatër e
edukimit revolucionar. Vatër e lëvizjes popullore.
Vatra e kryengritjes (e qëndresës). Vatër
agresioni (konflikti, lufte). Vatra e tërmetit (e
vullkanit). Vatër epidemie (infektimi).
6. fiziol. Qendra e një veprimtarie nervore. Vatra e
nxitjes (e frenimit). Vatrat e sistemit nervor.
7. mjek. Vendi në trupin e një njeriu ose të një
kafshe të sëmurë, që është qendra e qelbëzimit, e
mahisjes ose e një sëmundjeje tjetër. Vatër
tuberkulozi. Vatër qelbi. Zbuloi (zhduku) vatrën e
sëmundjes.
8. fiz., opt. Pika ku kryqëzohen a priten rrezet e një
tufe drite, pasi kjo të ketë përshkuar një thjerrzë
ose të jetë kthyer nga një pasqyrë e përkulur.
Vatër shembëllimi. Vatra e pasqyrës (e thjerrzës).
Vatra e xhamit zmadhues.
9. gjeom. Pikë e diametrit kryesor të elipsës etj., që
ka veti të veçanta kundrejt pikave të lakores.
Vatrat e elipsës. Largësia midis vatrave.
10. përd. ndajf. (në bashkëvajtje me një). Shumë,
tufë. Ka një vatër fëmijë. Është me një vatër
kalamaj. Erdhën një vatër mysafirë (miq).
* Në krye (në qoshe) të vatrës në vendin më të
nderuar, në krye të vendit. I thau vatrën shih te
THAJ. Është bërë gjysh në vatër shih te GJYSH,~I.
I daltë hithra në vatër! mallk. shih te
HIDH/ËR,~RA. Ishte me dy krënde në vatër shih
te KRËND,~I. Jam një zjarr e një vatër me dikë
shih te ZJARR,~I 2. Nxjerr ujë në vatër dikush
a) s'lë gjë pa trazuar e pa prishur, s'lë dy gurë
bashkë, është shumë i prapë (thuhet sidomos për
fëmijët);
b) është shumë i zoti. Lopa në mal, përsheshi në
vatër (në xham) fj.u. shih te LOP/Ë,~A. Vatër
kulture institucion që merret me organizimin e
drejtimin e veprimtarisë kulturore e artistike në një
fshat të vogël.
 
What's your point posting the whole definition now in Albanian?

Do you have haplotypes of Gorales to link them to Illyrians? Or only sort of similar pants and one word Vatra? Any other cultural similarities, music, customs, art?
 
Do you have haplotypes of Gorales to link them to Illyrians?
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Haplotyp is not ethnicity. Ethnicity is not haplotype. But they have the same dinaric race.
Or only sort of similar pants and one word Vatra?
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What do they inherited from ancient non-slavic culture, except of ""similar pants and one word Vatra""????
 
LeBrok said:
Trousers as we know them gained popularity only in last few centuries. Before that pants were only used as undergarment and for horse riding. Other than that all peoples in Europe wore some sort of skirts, men and women.
QUOTE]
I have to correct myself. I was reading recently some material about Scythians, and these guys are definitely showed with pants on from at least first millennium BC. And we are talking about real pants, even thick quilted, heavy duty. I guess it makes sense to invent them in cold winters, continental steppe climate. Probably it is wise to conclude that as long as people lived far north they had pants, though we can't confirm it with a written records.
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Neander said:
Haplotyp is not ethnicity. Ethnicity is not haplotype. But they have the same dinaric race.
What do they inherited from ancient non-slavic culture, except of ""similar pants and one word Vatra""????
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Dinaric is not a race, it's a phenotype.
 
The name "Fustanella" is an Albanian name itself which can only be translated by the Albanian language.

Fustan = Dress (ella = Albanian suffix)


That type of dress originated in the balkans, and was adopted by the Celts (Who were actually neighbours of Illyrian-Albanians because they lived right above them) which is why you see Scotland having that same thing today.
 
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