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Thread: Fustanella

  1. #51
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    I know Greeks say it's Greek, and they can't stand that Ethnic Albanians liberated their country since they don't like them, and Greeks and Albanians were like brothers before the Ottoman War, especially the Orthodox community, but Fustanella is not Greek, it's Albanian. Greeks adopted it from the Arvanite (Albanians) that immigrated to Greece during Ottoman war. The Greeks made it their national costume in honor of Arvanite Markos Botsaris. who liberated Greece from Ottomans. Albanians were called Arvanite by Greeks in the middle ages. While Albanians called themselves Arbereshe. Today you can still find Albanian communities (Arbereshe) in Southern-Italy that escaped from the war Ottoman War, even Skanderbegs family. Fustan (fistan) means dress in Albanian.

    It's interesting because Celts lived next to Illyrians and Thracians and even intermarried them, traded culture etc. Allot of Celtic tribes were Illyrianized. and even allied with Illyrians in battles.

    Edwin E Jacques in his book, the Albanians: an ethnic history from prehistoric time to the present mentions the close connection between Albanians and Scots:

    ''The Arnaouts, or Albanese, struck me forcibly by their resemblance to the highlanders of Scotland, their very mountains, the kilt though white, the spare active form, their dialect Celtic in sound, and their hardy habits all carried me back...'' then Edwin Writes, ''So would their fierce interfamily blood feuds, and their goatskin or pigskin bagpipes softened with warm water and oil, whose gay, flutelike melody was accompanied by a low drone quite that of the Scottish highland bagpipe music''

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    Quote Originally Posted by iapodos View Post
    Albanians does not belong nor to dinaric race nor to dinaric haplotype. It is mostly very short people, totaly oposite of tall Montenegrins beside them. That difference is so obvious that every Yugoslav, only by physical appearance, could recognize Albanian. I lived among Albanians for a very long period, and I am telling what I saw.
    Also, as far I know there is no any kind of scientific proof that Albanians have anything in common with Illyrians, nor in language, nor in archeological findings.That Illyromania was part of Albanian national revival, the same way as it was used in Croatia with Illyrian movement.
    As far as I know, Albanian Gegs are genetically Europe's tallest people together with Montenigrins. I know you're gonna say Dutch and Norwegians are but Dutch and Norwegians have become tall through better nutrion. in the 19th century Dutch and Scandinavians were known to be very short but this changed through nutrion, which plays a major role. I am Geg and every male in my family is tall. my grandfather was like 7foot. And most of the short Albanians I know are the ones that started lifting weights at the age of 14.

    George Fred Williams writes in his book, the Albanians, that Montenigrins, Albanians and Bosnians are Europes tallest people.

    And funny, how you compare ancient civilization with modern ones.. which you really can't, because even the Norwegians, descendants of Vikings are today quite different looking than them, and Norwegians today are taller.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albanien View Post
    As far as I know, Albanian Gegs are genetically Europe's tallest people together with Montenigrins.
    As far I know, Albanians which live in Kosovo are predominantly Gegs and I haven't seen a lot of tall people there and I have lived in Kosovo for three years. Even the Montenegrins which lived around Skadar lake and close to Albanian border are much smaller than Montenegrins from Old Herzegovina.
    Howewer, South Slavs and Albanians(especially Gegs) are linguisticaly and geneticaly two totally different worlds. I was just saying that it is obvious from the first look...

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    As far I know, Albanians which live in Kosovo are predominantly Gegs and I haven't seen a lot of tall people there and I have lived in Kosovo for three years. Even the Montenegrins which lived around Skadar lake and close to Albanian border are much smaller than Montenegrins from Old Herzegovina.
    Being tall has allot to do with nutrition. Why else have the dutch gone from being the smallest to the tallest, according to some sources. Albanian Gegs are part of the Dinaric race, especially the Northern Albanians, Malesort, And most of western Kosovo. Albania has the highest Dinaric Alps, with Maja Jezerce reaching it's peak.
    ''Maja Jezercë (Albanian: Maja Jezercë, meaning 'lake ridge'; Serbian: Језерски врх, Jezerski vrh) is the highest point of the Prokletije and the entire Dinaric Alps, standing at 2,694 m (8,839 ft) AMSL.''
    And not every Bosnian or Serb looks like Dinars because not everyone is. I have seen many Albanians who look Dinaric. I know what Dinaric looks like, and many Bosnians and Serbs are not Dinaric. This is a real Dinaric

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    Howewer, South Slavs and Albanians(especially Gegs) are linguisticaly and geneticaly two totally different worlds. I was just saying that it is obvious from the first look...
    Again, wrong. Of all the languages in Europe Albanian is most related to Balto-Slavic and Germanic. And Both Serbs and Bosnians, speak Croatian, not Serbian. I call it Croatian. And I know many Bosnians who could pass as Albanians any day. Haplogroups do not define race either lol. Just because you're for example EV-13 does not mean you're Egyptian, Berber or Somalian/Ehtiopian. Coz, I know an Albanian girl she did genetic test and she was EV-13 but in appereance she looks Germanic. Haplogroups doesn't mean anything, only useful to find your ancestors. The way you look is the way you've adopted to the region you live in. therefor Northern-Albanians are Dinaric, and funny how you say (especially Gegs) coz of all the Albanians Gegs would be the ones closest to South Slavs since they live next to them. Tosks live next to Greeks. Greece is very high in J2 and EV-13, both high in Albanian population too. the rest of Greece is R1a (Slavic) which proves Farheimers theory ''there are two types of Greeks, Albanians and Slavs''
    The Arvanite settlements in Greece got many Greeks Albanized. and many Greeks are of Albanian descent.

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    Funny because not so long time ago I met a Polish friend and we found so many words in Polish that are the same in Albanian. for example Kurva, which means whore.

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    Balto Slavic speakers lived next to Thracians, Dacians and also Celts.

    There are many words in Albanian which are the same in Romanian, as Romanian is latinized Dacian.

    There are also many similarities between Albanian and Irish (Q-Celtic)

    And there are also many similarities between Albanian and Croatian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albanien View Post
    I know Greeks say it's Greek, and they can't stand that Ethnic Albanians liberated their country since they don't like them, and Greeks and Albanians were like brothers before the Ottoman War, especially the Orthodox community, but Fustanella is not Greek, it's Albanian. Greeks adopted it from the Arvanite (Albanians) that immigrated to Greece during Ottoman war. The Greeks made it their national costume in honor of Arvanite Markos Botsaris. who liberated Greece from Ottomans. Albanians were called Arvanite by Greeks in the middle ages. While Albanians called themselves Arbereshe. Today you can still find Albanian communities (Arbereshe) in Southern-Italy that escaped from the war Ottoman War, even Skanderbegs family. Fustan (fistan) means dress in Albanian.

    It's interesting because Celts lived next to Illyrians and Thracians and even intermarried them, traded culture etc. Allot of Celtic tribes were Illyrianized. and even allied with Illyrians in battles.

    Edwin E Jacques in his book, the Albanians: an ethnic history from prehistoric time to the present mentions the close connection between Albanians and Scots:

    ''The Arnaouts, or Albanese, struck me forcibly by their resemblance to the highlanders of Scotland, their very mountains, the kilt though white, the spare active form, their dialect Celtic in sound, and their hardy habits all carried me back...'' then Edwin Writes, ''So would their fierce interfamily blood feuds, and their goatskin or pigskin bagpipes softened with warm water and oil, whose gay, flutelike melody was accompanied by a low drone quite that of the Scottish highland bagpipe music''
    The dress was adopted by greeks as a sign of resistance to the ottoman authorities. Arvinites were very helpfull in establishing greece in the 1820's Today the decendants of arvanites identify themselfs as greeks and are sometimes offended when you call them albanian. It seems that greeks and albanians are geniticaly very similar, this would support the idea that albanians are decendend from illyrians, natives to the balkans, but that doesn't neccesarily mean that the language and culture are Illyrian. Language and culture can be surplanted on a native group of people by the outside ruling elite (see the turks as an example, mostly natives to anatolia but religion and language was brought from central asia). The distinctiveness of the albanian language tells me that it developed after the ottoman conquests, considering it has little influence from its traditional neighboors. Where it got its influences from I don't know and can only guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albanien View Post
    Greece is very high in J2 and EV-13, both high in Albanian population too. the rest of Greece is R1a (Slavic) which proves Farheimers theory ''there are two types of Greeks, Albanians and Slavs''
    The Arvanite settlements in Greece got many Greeks Albanized. and many Greeks are of Albanian descent.
    You can look at the genetic similarities of greeks and albanians in many ways. You can see it as;

    a. greeks and albanians are both native to the balkans and therefore have similar genetics, outside influences are very small.

    b. Greeks are really albanians

    c. Albanians are really greeks.

    And you could argue each point untill the sun explodes , and really for both b and c, it has to do with culture more than anything.

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    your approach is wrong

    1 fustanella comes from turkish Fistan
    or from ancient greek poys means feet

    2 illyria is a greek name
    as troy
    it was illyros who invade in illyria,
    and for greeks illyria is little north lissos lezh not dalmatia, simply the same between E and I2a2

    3 according thoukidides 1 Greek language was thyrrsenian also name as etrouscan also as troyan also as thracian,

    4 according herodotus thracians were the most numerical people,

    5 dardani were illyro thracians

    6 the 3 myceneans 1 myceane in greece 2 the mysian in troy 3 the , moesian in romania gives us a coonection of E,

    7 the j2 is the cycladetic the thessalian the minoan the Tosk albanian big ratio in albania,

    8 the megalithic structures in balkans probably were done by E-V13 carriers

    9 the possibility that illyros invade illyria before the change of language gives the explanation,
    cause when illyros went away kadmeia cadmeia then IE language enter europe,
    now the fact that E-V13 is continental and J2 in sea also is according with the approach that albanian language has the fewest words about sea (inland people)

    10 the dardani were classified in semi thracian semi illyrian
    although epirus and central south greece was greco-thrasian
    leads us to a conlusion that dardani E were cut from rest E of greeks for years
    and in peace era like romani and byzantine reunified in illyria,
    besides the fact that greeks of epidamnus fight with illyrians of scodret vs romans leads to connection for both, the albanization or greekolization of area until today is very strange,
    besides both part were the same until the betrayal of balaba pasa

    11 geg also gugu in moesia also gygy in lydia comes from achaic gag or aga

    hetitopersian
    achamenides

    greek
    agamenides
    but achaic nation

    acha aga achaic -> ai=e -> agek gek is the greek aproach and geg the albanian aproach the greeks is nation the was given IE by R same as latium that is why we have many common there,
    But latium is full of J2 meaning that E+J make greek E+J was illyria and only dardania as cutten from rest was full E and low J, probably j is naval people

    personaly i believe that E is a pre-Greek and proto-Greek as j2 and Dardania as cutten from south E via IE invasion and lingua change kept mostly E since away from sea

    RMEMBER GUGU LIVES IN KONKAIONION

    besides a lot of gegs non muslim survived in moecia dacia and in albania before
    the similarity of daco=moesian in language is very big
    the fact is that after 1912 king zuzu and later hotza organize a gothering of muslims gegs in kossyfopedio which gives the big E, not that dardania E is a sprink of genetigal but a gother from diaspora of gegs, also the same in greece, when greek gegs moved in greece

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias2 View Post
    The dress was adopted by greeks as a sign of resistance to the ottoman authorities. Arvinites were very helpfull in establishing greece in the 1820's Today the decendants of arvanites identify themselfs as greeks and are sometimes offended when you call them albanian. It seems that greeks and albanians are geniticaly very similar, this would support the idea that albanians are decendend from illyrians, natives to the balkans, but that doesn't neccesarily mean that the language and culture are Illyrian. Language and culture can be surplanted on a native group of people by the outside ruling elite (see the turks as an example, mostly natives to anatolia but religion and language was brought from central asia). The distinctiveness of the albanian language tells me that it developed after the ottoman conquests, considering it has little influence from its traditional neighboors. Where it got its influences from I don't know and can only guess.
    Greeks did not use the Fustanella until 19th century, Albanians are recorded using it since 14th century. Fustan/Fistan means dress in Albanian. In Turkish it also means the same but we are talking about Albanian dress here not Turkish. Arvanite is the greek word for Albanian/Arbereshe. Greeks refered to Albanians as Arvanite during middle ages. Therefor they are clearly Albanians. In 19th century Greek children were taught in school that Albanians are their brothers, maybe we are, but R1a is also very common in Greece. And I know many Arvanite, they are orthodox Christians and are proud of their Albanian origin, because Arvanite means Albanian, not Greek. Sorry. One I know works as a school teacher and studies Albanian history. Many tell me how they get mugged for saying they are Albanians in Greece. Anyway, the war that happened in 19th century between Souliote and Ottomans, was more of a war between Albanian Orthodox Christians and Albanian Ottoman leader Ali Pasha, who tried to make them surrender. the Albanian Christians refused to convert to Islam and fled to their greek Orthodox brothers to help them.

    As for Albanian language devoloping after Ottoman conquest? This is impossible. Albanians have written and spoken in Greek, Latin and even Croatian but we always speak Albanian when we communicate with other Albanians. Thus, we have used everyone elses language to write etc. because we have been under many others regime, Byzantine, Ottoman, Yugoslavia etc. but we always kept our language and culture even though we were influenced by others. Albanians are also recorded fighting alongside Greeks against Arabs in Sicilia. And Skanderbeg spoke to his people in Albanian, he wrote in Greek and Latin but never in Albanian, he only spoke to Albanians in Albanian. Because Albanians were under Byzantine rule and Greek and Latin were the main languages, Greek was like todays English, therefor Albanian became a minority language overshadowed by Greek and Latin, and was never really written down until later, but it never died out. You can read more from Albanian priest and historian Marlin Barleti's book about Skanderbeg which was written in latin, in the 15th century. Illyrians wrote in Greek to and were clearly influenced by Greeks, but they had their own language at the same time.

    But I see what you mean. Just like Bosnians and Serbs who are linguistically Slavs but not genetically. Just like I could say since you speak Greek doesn't mean you're ancient greek. Anyway, in my opinion everything points out albanians either Illyrian or ancient greeks (ancient-macedonians) Well as for language everywhere on the internet I search about Albanian language I get ''Most linguists agree that Albanian might have developed from either Illyrian or Thracian, or these two might have formed a sprachbund Thraco-Illyrian'' like the Dardanians, who were probably Thraco-Illyrians. as for Albanian culture, I don't know what Illyrian culture is like, but clearly Albanians share allot with ancient greek culture, and we still have ancient greek gods, Zevs (zot), afrodite (aferdite) etc.

    if I2a is Illyrian, Bosnians would be more genetically related to Greeks, because these clearly influenced each other, unless Illyrians were genetically different from region to region, like Dalmatia (I2a) and the South (EV-13)

    @iapetoc Looking at Bosnians, they are linguistically Slavs but not genetically. Same could be said about Albanians. Illyrians were sea people, ok, Albanian language is not sea and is not related to greek ok, still doesn't mean anything because if you look at Bosnians, they are linguistically and genetically different. Same could be said about Albanians, maybe they are Illyrianized Greeks? Or maybe Illyrians and Greeks were the same. Because everything I have found about Albanian language is that it's either Thracian or Illyrian.. if you can find something else, then please tell me. And genetically Albanians = related to Greeks.

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    Well we know there were dorian settlements along the albanian coast due to archeaological findings, there are also other non greek finding aswell. But the thing about illyria is that it extended from mid way in albania into now serbia, bosnia, croatia, so you would think that modern day yugoslavs would have kept some words, or maybe had similar archeaological findings, or just maybe the slav language just flat out dominated.

    The reason I think that the albanians language developed in the ottoman era was that the past three eras for the region of albania was dominated by latin and greek. It just seems odd that over the past the two thousand years when greek was spreading to be the lingua franca, then latin, then medival greek again, albania kept its language identity when all others didn't. Its a little too far fetched for a history student, considering albanian is a very different language then the rest of albanias direct neighbours, that they would have incorpotate more latin and greek words into their language over the hundreds of years. And the fact albanian didn't have a written language untill what, the modern albanian nation was formed, and even then they didn't know what alphabet to use, arabic, or latin, which they chose latin eventually.

    I think there is more to the history of albania during the Ottoman years then we know of. Genetically, albanians are closer to greeks than the traditional 'illyrian' peoples of croatia, bosnia, and serbia. We know of the dorians settlements, the greek arcehaological findings, this leads me to believe that albanians are, or used to be, greeks in some way but changed do to religious and cultural differences that developed over the years from outside influences. This isn't a bad hypothesis. Much like how modern day bosnians see themselves differently from croats and serbs when in reality, they are just islamized croats and serbs.

    anyways cheers

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    what dorian and bullshit propaganda

    arbanites were greeks
    fustanella is greek from πους =feet δενω->δεναλι = bound
    πουσδεναλι,
    besides the language you are given

    shqiptar = ish GYPTAR from egypt

    sghqiptars learn the language from arbanites of arber who welcome you
    and you genocide them
    Suliotes were greeks
    as Sulimiotes is peloponese
    what bullshit who are talking
    suliomiotes as suliotes were illyrogreeks NOT SHQIPTARS
    YOU EVEN MAKE KASTRIOTI AN EGYPTIAN ALTHOUGH HIS FAMILY COMES FROM GREEK MAKEDONIA
    PRINCIPI EMATHEIA ET CASTURIA
    shut with your bullshit propaganda

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    Who are you talking too iapetoc?

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    they know who

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    You are really brainwashed. Arbereshe or Arvanite was what Albanians (Shqiptars) called themselves before Skanderbeg died. When he died we changed to Shqiptar which means Shqiperia = Land of the eagles.

    Kastrioti was 100% Albanian, his mother Vojsava, Albanian princess from Western Macedonia, his father from Diber (Northern-Albania), border to Macedonia.

    Kastrioti allied only with Albanians and a Montenigrian family, never with Greeks. He was Catholic, like major North-Albanians. He founded the league of lezhe and gathered all Albanian princes from Kosovo, Macedonia, Albania and Montenegro. He allied with Leke DUkagjini, Albanian prince from Kosovo

    Lekë Dukagjini (1410–1481) was an Albanian prince who fought against the Ottoman Empire. A contemporary of Skanderbeg, Dukagjini is known for the Kanuni i Lekë Dukagjinit, a code of law instituted in northern Albania.
    (I can't post links yet)

    Leke Dukagjini was founder of the Albanian Kanun. Kastrioti also allied with Albanian preist and historian Marin Barleti

    Marin Barleti (Latin: Marinus Barletius, Italian: Marino Barlezio; c. 1450, Shkodër - c. 1520). Barleti was an Albanian historian and Catholic priest. He is considered as the first Albanian historian, especially because of his biography on Skanderbeg, translated in many languages in the 16th to the 18th centuries.
    The prologue establishes this sombre framework, but as soon as the author begins the description of his hero, the melancholy present pales into insignificance against the excitement of heroic valour and victorious exploits. But the point of departure is sad. Just imagine what would happen if Alexander the Great returned! Or Pyrrhus, who in his day fought so brilliantly against the Romans! They would hardly be able to recognize their country, but would leave again full of contempt, because it was no longer a home of freedom as in their day. The present squalor is so overwhelming that the author fears he will be unable to convince his readers that Albania was glorious not only in antiquity, but also during the immediately preceding period. Freedom reigned supreme, where now slavery has spread. In those times the whole world looked to Epirus in admiration, where now the only question is whether fortune will never weary of plaguing the country.
    -Mina Skafte Jensen: Barleti-Skanderbeg

    Barleti wrote a book about Skanderbeg and also wrote Albanians (Arbereshe) are EPIROTANS. mostly in his book he refers to Albanians as Epirotans, living in Kosovo, Macedonia and Albania. and that all these came from Epirus. Looking at Genetic studies and similarities between Albanians and Greeks, he was probably right. He also claimed Alexander the Great as Arbereshe hero, not Greek, and Skanderbeg used Alexanders helmet. If we are Greeks then we would call ourselves Greeks not Arbereshe or Albanian. and there is no such thing as Arbanitas, it's Arbereshe, greeks called us Arvanite. Skanderbeg nor any of these Albanians were never associated with Greeks, lol.. never does Barleti mention Greeks in his book, he only refers to Epirotans/Macedonians as Albanians.

    Congratulations iapetoc, you just let your insecurities out, and claimed all Albanians as Greeks, also claim Albanian history as Greek. And there is absolutely no historical evidence to what you just said. Arberia was middle age Albania, not Greece. Arberia was modern day Albania, Epirus and western Macedonia, Kosovo was also populated by Arbereshe of course but it was under Serbian/Montenigrian regime. Arberia, never Greece, if we are Greeks we would call ourselves Greeks, but you Greeks change sides when it suits you, now you are calling every Albanian for Greek. and Albanian language is not related to Greek.

    What this idiot, Iapetoc, is saying is that modern-Albanians are not the middle-age Arbereshe/Arvanite, but he says they are Greeks.

    During Ottoman time Albanians (Arbereshe) fled to Italy, also Kastrioti's family fled to Italy. Now let's see if these people are greeks or Albanians. (I can't post links)

    The Arbëreshë are a linguistic and ethnic Albanian minority community living in southern Italy, especially the regions of Apulia, Basilicata, Molise, Calabria and Sicily.[2] They settled in Southern Italy in the 15th to 18th century AD in several waves of migrations, following the death of the Albanian national hero Giorgio Kastriota Skanderbeg and the gradual conquest of Albania and throughout the Byzantine Empire by the Ottoman Turks. The Arbëreshë have their own distinct culture and have been able to preserve the original Albanian identity[3] over the centuries. Over the centuries the arbëreshë have managed to maintain and develop their identities greek-Albanian, thanks to their stubbornness and cultural value exercised mainly by the two religious communities of the Eastern Rite Byzantine Catholics, based in Calabria, the "Collegio Corsini" (1732) and then "Corsini-Sant'Adriano" in 1794 and Sicily in the "Seminario Greco-Albanese of Palermo" (1735) then transferred to Piana degli Albanesi in 1945. Today, most of the fifty arbëreshë communities still preserve the Byzantine Catholics belonging to the Italo-Albanian Catholic Church of Eastern Rite. They belong to two eparchies: to Lungro for Arbëreshë of southern Italy, and that of Piana degli Albanesi for Arbëreshë of Sicily.
    Prior to the Ottoman invasion of Albania, the native people in the area of Albania were all called Arbëreshë. After some were forced[citation needed] out of their homeland to Italy, these Italian-born Albanians continued to use the term Arbëresh whilst those in Albania called themselves Shqiptarë (compare the Albanian word Shqip, present in the local name for the country and the language).
    "Albanese" or "Albanesi" which occurs in several of the Italian names above is the Italian language word for "Albanian" or "Albanians", respectively. ("Albanese" is also a common surname among the Arbëresh and their overseas descendants.)
    Arbereshe and Arvanite (THE SAME THING)

    Only Greeks called Albanians Arvanite, Albanians called themselves Arbereshe, Italians called us Albanese.

    Arbereshe are Albanians that left Albania during Ottoman invasion, and are still Catholics, while We Albanians (Arbereshe) in Albania started calling ourselves Shqipetar in honor of Skanderbeg, so two different words, the same people. There are only 250,000 Arbereshe in Italy, and probably 100,000 thousand in Greece today.

    The word Shqiptár is also used in a few villages of Thrace, where Arvanites migrated from the mountains of Pindus during the 19th centur
    And I know many Arvanites that live in Greece, they are all Albanians, with Albanian names, only they are Orthodox Christians, I also know many Arbereshe in italy that are proud Albanians here is a list:

    * Giorgio Basta (1544–1607), aristocrat, general and military strategist in the Holy Roman Empire.
    * Lekë Matrënga (1560–1619), priest, one of the first writers in Albanian language.
    * Pope Clement XI (1649–1721), born Giovanni Francesco Albani, Pope from 1700 -1721.
    * Jeronim de Rada (1814–1903), poet, folklorist and Albanian nationalist.
    * Anton Santori (1819–1894), writer, playwright and poet of the Albanian National Awakening.
    * Francesco Crispi (1819–1901), 19th century Italian politician, Prime Minister between 1887–1891 and again between 1893-1896.
    * Zef Serembe (1844–1901), lyric poet.
    * Zef Skiroi (1865–1925), poet, linguist, publicist and folklorist.
    * Antonio Gramsci (1891–1937), Italian philosopher, writer, politician and political theorist.
    * Costantino Mortati (1891–1985), statesman and contributor to the Italian Constitution.
    * Giuseppe T. Gangale (1898–1978), Italian philosopher, philologist and poet.
    * Enrico Cuccia (1907–2000), banker, founder of Mediobanca and important figure in Italian post-war industrial reconstruction.
    * Stefano Rodotà (1933), politician.
    * Joseph J. DioGuardi (b. 1940), American politician.
    * Kara DioGuardi (b. 1970), singer, songwriter and American Idol judge.
    * Claudia Conserva (b. 1974), Chilean TV hostess and actress.
    * Amalia Granata (b. 1981), Argentine model.
    * Ernesto Sábato (b. 1911), Argentine writer.
    * Regis Philbin (b. 1931), American media personality and occasional actor and singer.
    * John Cena (b. 1977), American Professional wrestler

  16. #66
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    @Elias2, I agree with you.

    Cheers!

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    Well, when it comes to religion Albanian Catholics are more like Latins. I mean if you look at their names you could think they are Italians, while Muslims are more Turkish surnames because Ottomans formed clans and changed them in to Turkish surnames. so all Christians that were converted were changed their surname into Turkish.

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    That is why Pasha, an Albanian nationalist said, ''Albanians wake up, you are Latins, Greeks and Turks by religion, wake up, the religion of Albanians is Albanianism''

    This was way before Enver Hoxha, Albanian national awakening started even during Ottoman war.

    Jeronim de Rada
    [1] (in Italian: Girolamo de Rada 1814 - 1903) is a writer of Italo-Albanian literature,[2] who was the foremost figure of the Albanian nationalist movement in nineteenth-century Italy.
    Albanian nationalist (Arbereshe from Italy). see the Arbereshe in Italy are still proud Albanians, and there are many nationalists among them like Jeronim de Rada, I also know many Arvanite from Greece who are nationalists. So who are you to call these people Greeks or Italians? Let them decide what they wannabe called, and clearly they are Albanians, as for fustanella, it's Albanian kilt adopted by Greeks from Markos Bocari, no doubt.

    Here is a youtube video of Arbereshe in Italy

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE5C6yvDCBk

    I can't see any Greeks, only Albanians.

    Most Arbereshe are still proud Albanians, while the Arvanite, it is said that they have been assimilated in to Greek population, this is not quite true, the Albanians in Greece have been mugged and beaten up for saying they are Albanians, that's why many are scared to say they are Albanians. Because I personally know some Albanians in Greece. Also the Chams were murdered by Greeks. How can we be brothers with such people?

    The Ottoman and Slavic invasion should of never happened!

    But I have to say Byzantine Empire also ruined Albanians, because from the North (Catholics) we spoke and wrote in Latin, and we had Latin names, if you looked at our names you could think we were Italians, while from the South we spoke and wrote Greek and were Orthodox Christians.

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    -Forum Error

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    There is something wrong, I meant to only post once*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albanien View Post
    That is why Pasha, an Albanian nationalist said, ''Albanians wake up, you are Latins, Greeks and Turks by religion, wake up, the religion of Albanians is Albanianism''

    This was way before Enver Hoxha, Albanian national awakening started even during Ottoman war.

    Jeronim de RadaAlbanian nationalist (Arbereshe from Italy). see the Arbereshe in Italy are still proud Albanians, and there are many nationalists among them like Jeronim de Rada, I also know many Arvanite from Greece who are nationalists. So who are you to call these people Greeks or Italians? Let them decide what they wannabe called, and clearly they are Albanians, as for fustanella, it's Albanian kilt adopted by Greeks from Markos Bocari, no doubt.

    Here is a youtube video of Arbereshe in Italy

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE5C6yvDCBk

    I can't see any Greeks, only Albanians.

    Most Arbereshe are still proud Albanians, while the Arvanite, it is said that they have been assimilated in to Greek population, this is not quite true, the Albanians in Greece have been mugged and beaten up for saying they are Albanians, that's why many are scared to say they are Albanians. Because I personally know some Albanians in Greece. Also the Chams were murdered by Greeks. How can we be brothers with such people?

    The Ottoman and Slavic invasion should of never happened!

    But I have to say Byzantine Empire also ruined Albanians, because from the North (Catholics) we spoke and wrote in Latin, and we had Latin names, if you looked at our names you could think we were Italians, while from the South we spoke and wrote Greek and were Orthodox Christians.
    This is a very albanian centric point of view, there are alot of different peoples who wished things turned out differently, but they didn't. I think the question now is how we can move foward, and I don't think ultra-nationalism is the answer. If I were an albanian living in albania... or kosovo I guess, I would be worried about reforming said countries to get aligned with EU standards, because right now there is alot of corruption in both countries. This will not only improve the lives of albanians but for the region to do business as well.

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    Amen, brother Elias

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    the albanian canun is also a Greek kanon κανων and means law we can find also in minor asia in Kulla and even to pontic greeks,
    is the ancient law of families,
    besides that law is also in crete but it is named as Vendeta (revenge)

    there is another thred also about albania,

    what do you believe, the albanians came from greece to dardania or fron sicily?

    the arvanitet knew that they were greeks, and return back to avoid the changes in albania,
    most arvanitet are tosk, and some gegs, and were at Kastrioti army,
    but the betrayal of baraba pasha, and the religion change and the hunt of albanians push them south,
    besides all arvanitet were with ali pasa but the genocide of suliotet, prove them that the same happened to kastrioti is going to happened to them,
    so they abandoned ali pasa,
    besides arvanitet stay in the old,
    it is the albanians that change, first with serbs, then with normands, and last with turks,

    besides Ducagkini are also 2 families living in greece, and were at kastrioti army

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    The custom of wearing fustanella (kilt) can be explained as the kilt worn in Egypt thousands of years BC.

    www.kingtutshop.com/freeinfo/Ancient-Egyptian-Clothes.htm

    “The ancient Egyptians made their own clothes from what their environment and nature gave them. Egypt has mostly a hot climate thus the use of clothes reflect material that is lightweight to suit this type of climate. The ancient Egyptians thus used clothes made of linen. The ancient Egyptians both men and women wore linen clothes all throughout the hot weather. The men wore short skirts around their waists called kilts, while the women wore straight fitting dresses with straps on their shoulders. The wealthy men wore pleated kilts, and the older men wore a longer kilt. When doing hard work, men wore a loin cloth, and women wore a short skirt. Children usually ran around nude during the summer months. Linen is a fabric made from plant fibers. The plant fiber comes from flax plants that grow abundantly along the banks of the Nile. “


    Kilts were of various sizes and shapes depending on the position in society, era, etc.





    Part of the Balkan population (carriers of haplogroup E) is from Egypt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iapetoc View Post
    the albanian canun is also a Greek kanon κανων and means law we can find also in minor asia in Kulla and even to pontic greeks,
    is the ancient law of families,
    besides that law is also in crete but it is named as Vendeta (revenge)

    there is another thred also about albania,

    what do you believe, the albanians came from greece to dardania or fron sicily?

    the arvanitet knew that they were greeks, and return back to avoid the changes in albania,
    most arvanitet are tosk, and some gegs, and were at Kastrioti army,
    but the betrayal of baraba pasha, and the religion change and the hunt of albanians push them south,
    besides all arvanitet were with ali pasa but the genocide of suliotet, prove them that the same happened to kastrioti is going to happened to them,
    so they abandoned ali pasa,
    besides arvanitet stay in the old,
    it is the albanians that change, first with serbs, then with normands, and last with turks,

    besides Ducagkini are also 2 families living in greece, and were at kastrioti army
    Arvanite is the Greek medieval word for ''ALBANIAN'' or simply ''Arbereshe''
    This name changed to Shqiptar after Skanderbegs death. It has something to do with the eagle. Turks called Albanians Arnaut. And don't give me bullshit about Arnaut means the ones who never returned lol. Arnaut, Arvanite, Arbereshe.. same meaning.

    Arvanite are normal South Albanians, Tosks, of Orthodox Religion.

    Kastrioti and Dukagjini were not Tosks, they were Gegs. So was Marin Barleti. They were Catholics.

    Leke Dukagjini was Albanian from Kosovo, not Greece or Albania. Kastrioti gathered all Albanians from Macedon, Epirus, Kosovo and Montenegro to fight Turks. Dukagjini was his successor and the founder of the Albanian Kanun. Barleti in his book called Albanians for Epirotans, and Kastrioti as Prince of Epirus (Prince of Albania)

    The Kanun was founded by Albanians, in 15th century, and it's still used in Catholic countries. I never heard it was used in Greece, because the Kanun is not used in South Albania, it's only used among Albanians in Montenegro, Kosovo and North Albania, because the Kanun has a northern origin.

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