Fustanella

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Haplotyp is not ethnicity. Ethnicity is not haplotype. But they have the same dinaric race.
What do they inherited from ancient non-slavic culture, except of ""similar pants and one word Vatra""????

Albanians does not belong nor to dinaric race nor to dinaric haplotype. It is mostly very short people, totaly oposite of tall Montenegrins beside them. That difference is so obvious that every Yugoslav, only by physical appearance, could recognize Albanian. I lived among Albanians for a very long period, and I am telling what I saw.
Also, as far I know there is no any kind of scientific proof that Albanians have anything in common with Illyrians, nor in language, nor in archeological findings.That Illyromania was part of Albanian national revival, the same way as it was used in Croatia with Illyrian movement.
 
Albanians does not belong nor to dinaric race nor to dinaric haplotype. It is mostly very short people, totaly oposite of tall Montenegrins beside them. That difference is so obvious that every Yugoslav, only by physical appearance, could recognize Albanian. I lived among Albanians for a very long period, and I am telling what I saw.
Also, as far I know there is no any kind of scientific proof that Albanians have anything in common with Illyrians, nor in language, nor in archeological findings.That Illyromania was part of Albanian national revival, the same way as it was used in Croatia with Illyrian movement.


Nice Serbian propaganda you have there, why dont you take that to StormFront :LOL:


The word "Illyria" is an Albanian word.

Iliria in Albanian meand "The Free One"

And spare me the bull about Albanian genetics. It's been proven that most Albanians belong to the Haplogroups I and R1b, with R1a and E in the smaller side.


Kosovars Albanians are also some of the tallest Europeans in general, averaging 182 cm in height.


Take your BS somewhere else ignorant Serb.

(y)
 
Illyrians, Celts and Gales - Similarities

As we know from mythology Illyrians, Celts and Gales, are brother whith the same parents. Today, scientifically DNA tells us the same thing, that these people have some of the same haplogroups(like "R", "I"...) and came from the same tree, the same antique culture.
 
Nice Serbian propaganda you have there, why dont you take that to StormFront :LOL:


The word "Illyria" is an Albanian word.

Iliria in Albanian meand "The Free One"

And spare me the bull about Albanian genetics. It's been proven that most Albanians belong to the Haplogroups I and R1b, with R1a and E in the smaller side.


Kosovars Albanians are also some of the tallest Europeans in general, averaging 182 cm in height.


Take your BS somewhere else ignorant Serb.

(y)


There was no attention of me to offend megalomanic Albanian. I would post few statements from wikipedia:

Arguments against Illyrian origin

The theory of an Illyrian origin of the Albanians is challenged on linguistic grounds.[4]
According to linguist V. Georgiev, the theory of an Illyrian origin for the Albanians is weakened by a lack of any Albanian names before the 12th century and the relative absence of Greek influence that would surely be present if the Albanians inhabited their homeland continuously since ancient times.[58] The number of Greek words borrowed in Albania is small; if the Albanians originated near modern-day Albania, there should be more.[59]
According to Georgiev, although some Albanian toponyms descend from Illyrian, Illyrian toponyms from antiquity have not changed according to the usual phonetic laws applying to the evolution of Albanian. Furthermore, placenames can be a special case and the Albanian language more generally has not been proven to be of Illyrian stock.[42]
Many linguists have tried to link Albanian with Illyrian, but without clear results.[42][60] Albanian belongs to the satem group within Indo-European language tree, while there is a debate weather Illyrian was centum or satem. On the other hand, Dacian[60] and Thracian[61] seem to belong to satem.
There is a lack of clear archaeological evidence for a continuous settlement of an Albanian-speaking population since Illyrian times. For example, while Albanians scholars maintain that the Komani-Kruja burial sites support the Illyrian-Albanian continuity theory, most scholars reject this and consider that the remains indicate a population of Romanized Illyrians who spoke a Romance language.[62][63][64] Recently, some Albanian archeologists have also been moving away from describing the Komani-Kruja culture as a proto-Albanian culture.[65]
The Illyrians as a people went extinct, so did their languages by the 6th century.[66] Today, almost nothing of it survives except for names.[67] Ancient Illyrians were subject to varying degrees of Celticization,[68][69] Hellenization,[70] Romanization[71][72] and later Slavicisation.

And it is simply not true that Albanians have high frequency of I2a2. As a member of I2a2 haplogroup I have seen hundreds of haplotypes of I2a and as much I remember there was only one Albanian represantative.

It is enough just to see following tables and maps and who wants to see the truth everything will be clear to him.

Pay attention on Albania facts on the chart:
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/HgE1b1b1a2.png

And honestly I don't see why are you so embarrassed by the fact of carrying highest percent of E1b1b1 haplogroup in Europe. Or you simply think that some haplogroup is less worth than other.
 
Info about "Iapdos"

"Iapdos"
Do not ruin the continuity of theme with your personal complexes about origin of the Albanians and the autochtony of south Slavs (as you are) in the Balkans, we are discussing this topic about something more concrete.
About every theory, you can find support ! - Also I can tell you thousands scientist linguist, anthropologist, historian, artist ... who talk about language, origin, culture... of albanians, so diametrically against your way of thinking, but that doesn't make a difference about you. You can find a compromise: leave that to the science. Anyway, the scientific precision would be to pedestal, just in a time of positive globalization and when nationalism would disappear in it, than you and I will talk in different way.

Illyrians, Greeks, Macedonians, Thracs... were a culture, not a race, not a nations... and we albanians are a synthesis of these ancient cultures:
Video in YouTube:
Albanian Dna
Albanian Dna 2
Albanian DNA and language
...
Here some books against your way of thinking:
Before XVIII century
1509 Eneo Silvio Piccolomini - 'Cosmograhia Pii Papae in Asiase & Europe [...]'
1555 Konrad Gesner Schweizer - “Mithridas sive de differentiis linguarum”
1587 Andrea de Poza Spanierin - “Albaner nannte man früher Epiroten”
1599 G. Skaliger Franzose - 'Langues europeennes, “die epirotische Sprache von früher ist die albanische Sprache von heute'
1695 Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz - 'Correspondence on the Albanian Language';
1646-1716 Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz - “Albanische Sprache ist die alte illyrische
1769 Johan Ihre - 'Glossarium Suiogothicum'
1774 Johann Thunman - 'Untersuchungen über die Geschichte der östlichen europaeischen Völker'
1777 Niccolò Chetta - 'Tesoro di notizie su de’ Macedoni'
1746 - 1770 Hans Tunman - 'Untersuchungen über die Geschichte der östlichen europäischen Völker “Albaner sind die direkten Nachfolger der Illyrer und wurden nicht romanisiert ”
1744 - 1803 Johann G.Herde Deutscher - 'Ideen zur Philosophie der Geschichte der Menschheit'
1784 Johann G.Herde Deutsche - “Albaner Nachfolger der Illyrer”
1751-1819 Daniel Farlati dhe Jakob Koleti - Enciklopedia "Illyricum Sacrum";
1755-1826 Conrad Malte-Bruun Däne - ' Annales des Voyages de la Geographie et de l`Historie' / Paris 1809 - “Albaner Nachfolger der Illyrer”
1790-1866 Jakob Falmerajer - “Das albanische Element in Griechenland”; “Besteht eine Verbindung der Albaner und Illyrern"
1794-1881 Ami Bue - “Verbindung der Illyrer mit Albanern”


Cent. XIX
1806 Johann Christoph Adelung - 'Mithridates oder allgemeine Sprachenkunde [...]'
1807 Angelo Masci - 'Discorso sull’ origine, costume e stato attuale della nazione Albanese'
1811-1869 Johann Georg von Hahn - “Die vorfahren der Albaner sind eindeutig die Illyrer”
1812 Conrad Malte-Brun - 'Precis de la geographie universelle, [...]'
1814-1866 H.Hekard - 'Historia et Description de la Haute' - Albanie ou Guegarie “Illyrer Vorfahren der heutigen Albaner”
1816 Franz Bopp - 'Über das Conjugationsystem der Sanskritsprache [...]'
{1854 Franz Bopp - 'Ueber das Albanesische [...]'}
1817-1903 Teodor Mommsen - “Römische Geschichte”; “Die überlebenden der Illyrer sind die Albaner”
1820 François Pouquevile - 'Voyage dans le Grece'
1821-1882 D. Camarda - “Albanisch die älteste Sprache der welt”
1826 Christian Gottlob Gisner - Die alten Pelasger
1831 Giuseppe Crispi – 'Memoria sulla lingua albanese'
1835 Josef Xylander - 'Die Sprache der Albenesen oder Skipetaren'
1835 Ph. Fallmerayer - 'Welchen Einfluß hatte die Besetzung Griechenlands durch die Slawen auf das Schicksal der Stadt Athen und der Landschaft Attika? '
1847 Vincenzo Dorsa - 'Sugli albanesi, Ricerche e pensieri'
{1862 Vincenzo Dorsa - Studi etimologici della lingua albanese}
1854 Johann Georg von Hahn - 'Albanesiche Studien'
1855 Karl Reinhold - 'Noctes Pelasgicae vel symbolae ad cognoscendas dialectos Graeciae Pelasgicas'
1855 Nikolaos Nikokles - 'De albnensium sive Shkiptar origine et prosapia'
1860 Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer - 'Das albanesische Element in Griechenland'
1864 Demetrio Camarda - 'Saggio di grammatologia comparata sulla lingua albanese'
1860 Frank Miklosici - “Albanische Forschung”
1866 L.Iasmouche - 'La Peninsule Balkanique”; “Die Albaner sind die einzigen repräsentierte Nation die von den Illyrern überlebt hat”
1877 Louis Benloew- 'Grèce avant les grecs: étude linguistique e ethnographique : pélasges, léléges, sémites e ioniens'
1878 Panajoti Kupitori - 'Studime shqiptare'
1879 Pashko Vasa - 'The Truth on Albania and the Albanians, Historical and Critical Issues'
1881 Arbereshi de Martino - 'L'arpa d'un Italo-Albanese: poesie varie
1886 Francesco Tajani - 'Le istorie albenesi'
1888 Marchiano Stanislao - 'I Pelasgi e la loro lingua'
1890 Ellis Hesselmeyer - 'Die Pelasgerfrage und Ihre Losbarkeit'
1850-1900 Gustav Meyer - “Albanische Studien”
1891 Gustav Meyer - 'Etymologisches Wörterbuch der Albanesischen Sprache'
1894 Girolamo de Rada - 'Appendice alla grammatica: Antologia albanese'
1894 Eduard Schneider - 'Une race oublièe, Les Pelasges et leurs descendantes'
1896 Eduard Schneider “Albanisch ist der reinste Beweis das sie die nachkommen der Illyrer Pelasger sind”
1896 Kretchmer Paul - 'Hyrje në historinë e gjuhës Greke'
1896 Spiro Lambro - 'Emërtimet e Atikës ( athinës) dhe vënd vendosjet e Shqiptarëve'
1899 Sami Frasheri - 'Shqipëria ç'ka qënë, ç'është e ç'do të bëhet'


Cent. XX
1901 Arturo Galanti - 'L'Albania'
1904 – 1906 Peck Vilmos – 'Okori Lexicon'
Gregorovius Ferdinand; 'Historia e qyteteve të Athinës në mesjetë'
1906 G. Hertzberg - 'Historia e greqisë nga mbarimi lashtësisë deri në ditët e sotme'
1907 John Linton Myres - 'A History of the Pelasgian Theory'
1907 Mihal Lambrinidhu - 'Shqiptarët në greqi dhe në poloponez'
1912 Iakovo Thomopulo – 'Pellazgji'
1913 Nicolae Densusianu - 'Dacia Preistorica'
1917 Donald MacKenzie - 'Myths of Crete and Pre-Hellenic Europe'
1922 Agostino Ribecco - 'Vetustà della lingua albanese e sua importanza nella spiegazione del mondo antico'
1924 Jokel Norbert - 'Ilirët, shqiptarët, frigiatët dhe Trakët dhe Shqiptarët'
1924 Luigi Ugolini - 'L’antica Albania nelle ricerche archeologiche'
1934 John Arthur Munro - 'Pelasgians and Ionians'
1936 Leonid Ndrenika - 'Pelasgi e la loro lingua: cenni storici e filologici'
1937 George Fred Williams - 'Shqiptaret'
1940 Michele Gervasio - 'Albania Antica'
1944 Jakov Milaj - 'Raca Shqiptare'
1947 Valentin Ditjakin - 'Soviet science of the origin of the Slavs'
1950 Milan Budimir - 'The Greeks and Pelasti';
{1956 Milan Budimir - 'Pelasto – Slavica'}
1952 Albert van Windekens - 'Le Pelasgique Essaisur une langue indo-europenne prehellenique'
{1960 Albert van Windekens - 'Etudes Pelasgiques'}
1959 Julius Pokorny - 'Indogermanisches Etimologisches Worterbuch'
1960 Fritz Lochner-Hüttenbach - 'Die Pelasger'
1961 Zacharie Mayani - 'The Etruscans Begin to Speak'
{1973 Zacharie Mayani - 'Fundi i misterit Etrusk'}
1964 Konda Spiro - 'Shqiptarët dhe problemi Pellazgjik'
1965 D.A.Hester - 'Pelasgian a new Indo-European language?'
1966 Tajar Zavalani - 'Histori e Shqipnis'
1982 Giuseppe Catapano - Elena (Gesù; Menelao Abbandonato, Etj.)
{1983 Giuseppe Catapano - 'Thot Parlava Albanese'}
{1984 Giuseppe Catapano - 'Faraon, la nostra stirpe' (Antichità della lingua albanese; etj.)}
{1995 Giuseppe Catapano - 'Ramseti i madh ishte i gjakut tonë' (Art.)}
{1996 Giuseppe Catapano - 'Shqiptarët, Popull i ndarë'}
1966 L.S.Abel - 'Fifth Century B.C., Concepts of the Pelasgians'
1965 S.Anamali, F.Prendi, S.Islami, H.Ceka – 'Iliria te autorët antikë'
1971 Skender Anamali - 'Përmbledhje artikujsh arkeologjike për historinë e lashtë të Shqipërisë'
{2009 Skender Anamali - 'Amantia, qytet i Ilirisë Jugore'}
1975 James Mellaart - 'The Neolithic of the Near East'
1977 Vladimir Ivanov Georgiev - 'Trakite i tehnijat ezik'
1977 Michael Sakellariou - 'Peuple préhelléniques d'origine indo-européennee'
1979 Fritz Schachermeyr - 'Die Ägäische Frühzeit [...]'
1979 Robert Buck - 'A History of Boeotia'
1979 Edgar Furnee - 'Study to the East Mediterranean Subtrat in Addition to an Attempt to a New Pelasgian Theory'
1980 James Pandeli - 'Oh Albania, My Poor Albania'
{2003.James Pandeli - 'The Language Of God'}
1981 Irnerio Gnudi - 'Pelasgi, Fenici, Etruschi, [...]'
1983 Aleksandr Iosifovič Nemirovskij - 'Etruski: ot mira k istorii'
1984 Akaki Urushadze - 'The Country of the Enchantress Media'
1984 Nermin Vlora Falaschi - 'Pelasgi, iliri, etruschi, albanesi'
{1989 Nermin Vlora Falaschi - Etrusco lingua viva}
{1997 Nemrin Vlora Falaschi - 'Prona gjuhësore dhe gjentike: Probabilitet e monogjenezës embrionale të fjalëve'}
{1998 Nermin Vlora Falaschi - 'Pellazget-iliret-etrusket-shqiptaret: Qyteterime me te lashta mesdhetare'}
1985 Rismag Gordeziani - 'Pre-Grecian and Georgian'
1986 Alexander Fol - 'Trakijskijat orfizam'
2008 Hansjörg Frommer - "Die Illyrer 4000 Jahre europäische Geschichte"
1988 Pierre Cabanes - “Les Illyriens de Bardylis a Genthios”
1989 E. B. French. - 'Archaeology in Greece (Archaeological Reports, No. 36.)'
1990 Dhimiter Pilika - 'Pellazgët, origjina jonë e mohuar'
1990 Robert D'Angely - 'Enigma'
{1990 Robert D'Angely - 'The Illyrians Thracians & Homer'}
{1998 Robert D'Angely - 'Comparative Albanian Grammar'}
1990 Ludwig Klages - 'I Pelasgi'
1994 Eqrem Çabej - Shqiptaret midis Perendmit dhe Lindjes
1995 Edwin Jacques - Shqiptaret
1996 Vladimir Xhelaj - Zgjidhja e enigmës së misterit etrusk
{2009 Vladimir Xhelaj - 'Në origjinë të kombit shqiptar dhe të gjuhës së tij: Arbëria dhe arbërit; ilirët dhe gjuha e tyre; etj.'}
1997 Nezir Myrta - 'Iliristika'
1998 John Wilkes - 'Iliret'
1999 Shaban Demiraj - 'Prejardhja e shqiptarëve në dritën e dëshmive të gjuhës shqipe'
1983 Aristidh Kola – 'Arvanitasit dhe prejardhja e grekeve'
{1989 Aristidh Kola - 'Gjuha e Perendive'}
{2000 Aristidh Kola - 'Zeusi pellazgjik dhe mashtrimi indoeuropian'}

Cent. XXI
2000 Preloc Margilaj - 'Ilirët flasin shqip, Shqiptarët flasin ilirisht'
2000 Mexhit Kokalari - 'Bijtë e shpatës shqiptare'
{2001 Mexhit Kokalari - 'Epiri, kryeqëndra e qytetërimit antik në Evropë'}
{2001 Mexhit Kokalari - 'Gjëmon historia e shqiptarëve'}
{2005 Mexhit Kokalari - 'Teuta, Mbretëresha e Ilirisë'}
{2005 Mexhit Kokalari - 'Aleksandri i Madh'}
2001 Georges Castellan - 'Histoire de l'Albanie et des Albanais'
2001 Jean Faucounau - 'The Proto-Ionians: Story of a Forgotten People'
{2002 Shaban Demiraj - 'Gramatikë historike e gjuhës shqipe'}
{2004 Shaban Demiraj - 'Gjuhësi ballkanike'}
{2006 Shaban Demiraj - 'Origin of the Albanians: linguistically investigated'}
{2008 Shaban Demiraj - 'Epiri, pellazgët, etruskët dhe shqiptarët'}
2004 Andreas Lippert -" Die Illyrer. Katalog zu einer Ausstellung von archäologischen Funden der albanischen Eisenzeit (12. - 4. Jh. v. Chr.)"
2005 Jean Faucounau - 'The Greek origins to the Bronze Age'}
2002 Stephanie Schwandner-Sievers & Bernd J. Fischer, Eds. - 'Albanian Identities, Myth and History'
2002 Aleksander Stipçeviq - 'Iliret'
2002 Jaho Brahaj - 'Flamuri i kombit Shqiptar'
2003 Muzafer Korkuti - 'Parailiret, Iliret, Arberit'
2003 Mathieu Aref - 'Albania or the incredible odyssey of preHellenic people'
{2004 Mathieu Aref - 'Greece: (Mycéniens = Pélasges) or the solution of an enigma'}
2004 Edward Bulwer Lytton – 'Athens, Its Rise and Fall, [...]'
2004 Niko Stylos - "Historia e shenjtë e Arvanitëve";
2004 Niko Stylos - "MARKO BOÇARI"
2005 Petro Zheji - 'Shqipja dhe Sankritishtja'
2005 Enzo Gatti – Iliret
2006 Elena Kocaqi – 'Albanet me fame mijevjeçare'
{2007 Elena Kocaqi - 'Roli pellazgo-ilir në krijimin e kombeve dhe gjuhëve evropiane'}
{2008 Elena Kocaqi - 'Shqipja çelësi i gjuhëve indoevropiane'}
{2009 Elena Kocaqi - 'Planet për zhdukjen e shqiptarëve: si u krijua Greqia dhe Serbia në trojet shqiptare'}
2006 Arsim Spahiu - 'Pellazgët dhe ilirët në Greqinë e vjetër'
2006 Arthur Evans - 'Ancient Illyria: An Archaeological Exploration'
2007 Ignacy Ryszard Danka - 'Pelazgowie, autochtoni Hellady, [...]'
2007 Fiqiret Barbullushi - 'Akili, Odiseja... nuk ishin helenë [...]'
{2009 Fiqiret Barbullushi - 'Akili dhe Agamemnoni'}
2007 Alberto Areddu – 'Le origini albanesi della civiltà in Sardegna'
2008 Ali Eltari - 'Pellazgët, krijuesit e qytetërimit botëror'
2008 Pjeter Nikolla - 'E vërteta e mitologjisë iliro-pellazge'
2008 Ibrahim Kelmendi - 'Ilirët në protohistori : origjina, kultura dhe përhapja e tyre'
2008 Selim Islami - 'Historia e ilirëve: përmbledhje punimesh'
2008 Shpresa Omer - 'Në gjurmët e pellazgjishtes: një krahasim etimologjik i fjalëve të gjermanishtes me ato të shqipes'
2008 Artan Haxhi - 'Etnogjeneza e gjuhës shqipe: përsiatje'
2008 Kapllan Burovic - 'Who are Albanians?: studies into the origin of Albanians'
2009 Luftulla & Liliana Peza - 'Dritë e re mbi pellazgët dhe gjuhën e tyre'
...
The arguments for the Illyrian-Albanian connection have been as follows:[36][37]
* The national name Albania is derived from Albanoi,[38][39][40] an Illyrian tribe mentioned by Ptolemy about 150 A.D.
* From what we know from the old Balkan populations territories (Greeks, Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians), Albanian language is spoken in the same region where Illyrian was spoken in ancient times.[41]
* There is no evidence of any major migration into Albanian territory since the records of Illyrian occupation.[42]
* Many of what remain as attested words to Illyrian have an Albanian explanation and also a number of Illyrian lexical items (toponyms, hydronyms, oronyms, anthroponyms, etc.) have been linked to Albanian.[43]
* Borrowed words (eg Gk (NW) "device, instrument" mākhaná > *mokër "millstone" Gk (NW) drápanon > *drapër "sickle" etc) from Greek language date back before the Christian era[44] and are mostly of Doric dialect of Greek language,[45] which means that the ancestors of the Albanians were in Northwestern part of Ancient Greek civilization and probably borrowed them from Greek cities (Dyrrachium, Apollonia, etc) in the Illyrian territory, colonies whic belonged to the Doric division of Greek, or from the contacts in Epirus area.
* Borrowed words from Latin (eg Latin aurum > ar "gold", gaudium > gaz "gas" etc[46]) date back before the Christian era,[47][48] while Illyrians in the todays Albanian territory were the first from the old Balkan populations to be conquered by Romans in 229 - 167 B.C., Thracians were conquered in 45 A.D. and Dacians in 106 A.D.
* The ancient Illyrian place-names of the region have achieved their current form following Albanian phonetic rules e.g. Durrachion > Durrës (with the Albanian initial accent) Aulona > Vlonë~Vlorë (with rhotacism) Scodra > Shkodra etc.[49][50][51][52]
* The characteristics of the Albanian dialects Tosk and Geg[53] in the treatment of the native and loanwords from other languages, have lead to the conclusion that the dialectal split preceded the Slavic migration to the Balkans[54][55] which means that in that period (5th to 6th century AD) Albanians were occupying pretty much the same area around Shkumbin river[56] which straddled the Jirecek line.[57][58]

1. ^ a b c Gheg 2,779,246 + Tosk 2,980,000 + Arbereshe 80,000 + Arvanitika 150,000 = 5,989,246. (Ethnologue, 2005)
Gordon, Raymond G., Jr. (ed.), 2005. Ethnologue: Languages of the World, Fifteenth edition. Dallas, Tex.: SIL International. Online version: ethnologue.com.
2. ^ in Notes et éxtraits pour servir à l'histoire des croisades au XV-ème siècle (4-ème sèrie, 1453-1576, Bucharest, 1915, p. 194-198).
3. ^ Dumitru Todericiu, An Albanian text older than the "Christening Formula" of 1462, in "Magazin Istoric", nr. 8, Bucharest, November 1967.
4. ^ Dr. Robert Elsie, The Bellifortis text and early Albanian in "Zeitschrift für Balkanologie", Berlin, 22 February 1986, p. 158-162..
5. ^ Byzantine and Modern Greek Studies, Birmingham, 15 (1991), p. 20-34.
6. ^ [1] Mallory, J. P. and Adams, D. Q.: The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo-European World
7. ^ [2] Holm, Hans J.: The Distribution of Data in Word Lists and its Impact on the Subgrouping of Languages. In: Christine Preisach, Hans Burkhardt, Lars Schmidt-Thieme, Reinhold Decker (eds.): Data Analysis, Machine Learning, and Applications. Proc. of the 31st Annual Conference of the German Classification Society (GfKl), University of Freiburg, March 7-9, 2007. Springer-Verlag, Heidelberg-Berlin
8. ^ [3] A possible Homeland of the Indo-European Languages And their Migrations in the Light of the Separation Level Recovery (SLRD) Method - Hans J. Holm
9. ^ Perfect Phylogenetic Networks: A New Methodology for Reconstructing the Evolutionary History of Natural Languages, pg. 396
10. ^ Leibniz, Gottfried Wilhelm. Albaner - Brife, Hanover, 1705 (E.P.Hamp, On Leibniz's Third Albanian Letter - Zeitschrift fur Balkanologie, Je XVI/1, 1981, M.Reiter, Leibnizen's Albanel - Briefe - Zeitschrift fur Balkanologie Jg. XVI, 1980,)Thunmann, Johann. Untersuchungen über die Geschichte der östlichen europäischen Völker. Laipzig (1774). Kopitar, B.J. Albanische, walachische und bulgarische Sprache. Wien (1829) Hahn, Georg von. Albanesische Studien. Wien (1853). Bopp, Franz. Über das Albanesische in seinen verwandtschaftlichen Beziehungen. Berlin (1855). Camarda, Demetrio. Saggio di grammatologia comparata sulla lingua albanese. Livorno (1864. Camarda, Demetrio. Appendice al Saggio di grammatologia sulla lingua albanese. Prato (1866). Miklosich, Franz: Albanische Forschungen. I: Die slavischen Elemente im Albanischen. Wien (1870). Miklosich, Franz. Albanische Forschugen, II: Die romanischen Elemente im Albanischen. Wien (1870). Meyer, Gustav. Albanesische Studien. I - Wien 1882; III - 1892; V - 1896. Pedersen, Holger. Bidrag til den albanesiske sproghistorie. (Festskrift til Vilhelm Thomsen). Kobenhavn (1894). Pedersen, Holger. Albanesisch 1905. Rom. Jb. IX (1905). Erlangen (1909). Kretschmer, Paul. Einleitung in die Geschichte der griechischen Sprache, (Hyrje në historinë e gjuhës greke), Göttingen, (1896) Kretschmer, Paul. Sprachliche Vorgeschichte des Balkans, (Parahistoria gjuhësore e Ballkanit), Revue Internationale des e'tudes balkaniquee, vol. II (1935) Thumb, A. Altgriechische Elemente des Albanesischen. IF 26 (1926). Sandfeld, Kristian. Linguistique balkanique, problemes et resultats. Paris 1930. Cimochowski, Waclaw. Recherches sur l'histoire du sandhi dans la langue albanaise. LP II, 1950. Cimochowski, Waclaw. Des recherches sur la toponomastique de l'Albanie. LP VIII, 1960. Cimochowski, Waclaw. Pozicioni gjuhësor i ilirishtes ballkanike në rrethin e gjuhëve indoevropiane. SF 1973/2. Lambertz, Maximilian. Lehrgang des Albanischen. Teil I: Albanisch-Deutsches Wörterbuch. Teil II: Albanische Chrestomathie. Teil III: Grammatik der albanischen Sprache (Berlin: Deutscher Verlag der Wissenschaften 1954, Berlin 1955, Halle/Saale 1959). Gjinari, Jorgji. Për historinë e dialekteve të gjuhës shqipe. SF 1968/4. Gjinari, Jorgji. Mbi vazhdimësinë e ilirishtes në gjuhën shqipe. SF 1969/3. Gjinari, Jorgji. Struktura dialektore e shqipes e parë në lidhje me historinë e popullit. SF 1976/3. Gjinari, Jorgji. Dëshmi të historisë së gjuhës shqipe për kohën dhe vendin e formimit të popullit shqiptar. SF 1982/3. Mayer, Antun. Die Sprache der alten Illyrier. B. II. Wien 1959. Tagliavini, Carlo. La stratificazione del lessico albanese. Elementi indoeuropei. Bologna 1965. Mihaescu, Haralambie. Les elements latins de la langue albanaise. RESEE 1966/1-2. Mihaescu, Haralambie La langue latine dans le sud-est de l’Europe. Bucuresti-Paris: Editura Academiei-Les Belles Lettres (1978). Mann, Stuart E.: An Albanian Historical Grammar ; Hamburg : Helmut Buske Verlag, 1977 Çabej, Eqrem. Disa probleme themelore të historisë së vjetër të gjuhës shqipe. BUSHT,SSHSH 1962/4 (In German SA 1964/1). Çabej, Eqrem. Rreth disa Çështjeve të historisë së gjuhës shqipe. BUSHT,SSHSH1963/3 (In Romanian SCL 1954/4). Çabej, Eqrem. Mbi disa rregulla të fonetikës historike të shqipes. SF 1970/2 (In German “Die Sprache”, Wien 1972). Çabej, Eqrem. L'ancien nom national des albanais. SA 1972/1. Çabej, Eqrem. Problemi i vendit të formimit të gjuhës shqipe. SF 1972/4. Çabej, Eqrem. Karakteristikat e huazimeve latine të gjuhës shqipe. SF 1974/2 (In German RL 1962/1). Çabej, Eqrem. Studime etimologjike në fushë të shqipes.; vëll. II, Tiranë 1976. Çabej, Eqrem. Studime etimologjike në fushë të shqipes; vëll. I. Tiranë 1982. Desnickaja, A.V. Albanskij jazyk i ego dialekty. Leningrad 1968. Desnickaja, A.V. Language Interferences and Historical Dialectology Linguistics, EJ088069 (1973) Desnickaja, A.V. Osnovy balkanskogo jazykoznanija, Cast 1. Leningrad: Nauka Press. 1990. Pisani, Vittore L'albanais et les autres langues indoeuropéennes, "Annuaire de l'Institut de philologie et d'histoire orientales etslaves", t. X, Bruxelles, 1950 Pisani, Vittore. Les origines de la langue albanaise. SA 1964/1. Pisani, Vittore. Sulla genesi dell'albanese. Akten Innsbruck (1972). Ajeti, Idriz. La presence de l'albanais dans les parlers des populations slaves de la Peninsule Balkanique а la lumiere de la langue et de la toponymie. SA 1968/2. Ajeti, Idriz. Për historinë e marrëdhënieve të hershme gjuhësore shqiptare-sllave. SF 1972/4. Ölberg, Hermann. Einige Uberlegungen zur Autochtonie der Albaner auf der Balkanhalbinsel. Akten Innsbruck (1972). Ölberg, Hermann. Kontributi i gjuhësisë për çështjen e atdheut ballkanik të shqiptarëve. SF 1982/3. Domi, Mahir. Prapashtesa ilire dhe shqipe, përkime dhe paralelizma. SF 1974/4. Domi, Mahir. Considerations sur les traits communs ou paralleles de l'albanais avec les autres langues balkaniques et sur leur etude. SA 1975/1. Katicic, Radoslav. Ancient languages of the Balkans (Trends in linguistics). The Hague and Paris: Mouton. (1976). Riza, Selman. Studime albanistike. Pristina 1979. De Simone, Carlo. Gli illiri del Sud. Tentativo di una definizione. “Iliria” (Tiranë) 1986/1. Banfi, Emanuele. Linguistica balcanica. Bologna 1985. Banfi, Emanuele. Storia linguistica del sud-est europeo. Milano 1991. Huld, Martin E. Basic Albanian etymologies. Columbus, OH: Slavica Publishers. (1984). Buchholz, Oda / Fiedler, Wilfried: Albanische Grammatik ; Leipzig : VEB Verlag Enzyklopädie, (1987) Pellegrini, Giovan Battista : I rapporti linguistici interadriatici e l’elemento latino dell’albanese në: Abruzzo. Rivista dell'Istituto di Studi Abruzzesi XIX, 1980 Pellegrini, Giovan Battista : Disa vëzhgime mbi elementin latin të shqipes (Some observations over the latin element of the Albanian language), in: SF 1982/3 Pellegrini, Giovan Battista : Avviamento alla linguistica albanese (Edizione rinnovata) (1997) Demiraj, Shaban. Gjuha shqipe dhe historia e saj. Shtëpia botuese e librit universitar (Tirane) 1988. Demiraj, Shaban. Fonologjia historike e gjuhës shqipe. (Akademia e Shkencave e Shqiperise. Instituti i Gjuhesise dhe i Letersise) TOENA (Tirane), 1996 Demiraj, Shaban. Prejardhja e shqiptarëve në dritën e dëshmive të gjuhës shqipe. Shkenca (Tirane) 1999 Demiraj, Shaban. Gramatikë historike e gjuhës shqipe. (Akademia e Shkencave e Shqiperise. Instituti i Gjuhesise dhe i Letersise) 2002 Demiraj, Shaban. Gjuhësi Ballkanike. (Akademia e Shkencave e Shqiperise. Instituti i Gjuhesise dhe i Letersise) 2004
11. ^ Weigand, Gustav. Sind die Albaner die Nachkommen der Illyrier oder der Thraker? BA III. (1927). derives it from Thracian, Georgiev, Vladimir. Albanisch, Dakisch - Mysisch und Rumanisch. BE 1960/2 derives it from Dacian
12. ^ Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985
13. ^ Vladimir Orel (2000) links the word to an unattested Vulgar Latin *melettum, which must be a borrowing from NW Greek mélitta. There is no real reason to posit Vulgar Latin mediation. J.P. Mallory and D.Q. Adams (1997) have the word as a native development, from *melítiā, a form also considered to underly Greek mélissa; however, this form gave Albanian mjalcë "bee", which is a native word and derivative of mjaltë "honey" (< Proto-Albanian *melita). In any case, the word does not appear to be native to Albanian.
14. ^ The word fat has both the meaning of "fate, luck" and "groom, husband". This may indicate two separate words that are homophones, one derived from Gothic and the other from Latin fātum; although, Orel (2000) sees them as the same word. Similarly, compare Albanian shortë "fate; spouse, wife" which mirrors the dichotomy in meaning of fat but is considered to stem from one single source - Latin sortem "fate".
15. ^ Calvert Watkins, "The Indo-European Linguistic Family: Genetic and Typological Perspectives", in Anna Giacalone Ramat and Paolo Ramat, eds., The Indo-European Languages (London: Routledge, 1998) 38.
16. ^ William Labov, Principles of Linguistic Change, vol. 1: Internal Factors (Oxford, UK: Blackwell, 1994) 42.
17. ^ E.P. Hamp, "Albanian", in Encyclopedia of Language and Linguistics (Oxford, UK: Persamon Press, 1994) 66-7.
18. ^ J.P. Mallory and D.Q. Adams, "Albanian", in Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture (London: Fitzroy Dearborn, 1997) 9.
19. ^ [4] Mallory, J. P. and Adams, D. Q.: The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo-European World
20. ^ Kopitar, B.J. Albanische, walachische und bulgarische Sprache. Wien 1829, (254)
21. ^ Meyer, Gustav. Die lateinischen Elemente im Albanesischen. (In: Grцbers Grundriss, I; I.Auflage) (1888), (805)
22. ^ Meyer-Lübke, Wilhelm. Rumanisch, romanisch, albanesisch. (Mitteilungen des Romanischen Instituts an der Universitet Wien. I. Heilderberg 1914), (32)
23. ^ Çabej, Eqrem. Karakteristikat e huazimeve latine të gjuhës shqipe. SF 1974/2 (In German RL 1962/1) (13-51)
24. ^ Mihaescu, Haralambie. Les elements latins de la langue albanaise. RESEE 1966/1, 30
25. ^ Mihaescu, Haralambie. Les elements latins de la langue albanaise. RESEE 1966/1, 21
26. ^ Mihaescu, Haralambie. Les elements latins de la langue albanaise. RESEE 1966/1-2
27. ^ A. Rosetti, Istoria limbii române, 1986, pp. 195-197
28. ^ The Early Medieval Balkans: A Critical Survey from the Sixth to the Late Twelfth Century By John Van Antwerp Fine Edition: reissue, illustrated Published by University of Michigan Press, 1991 ISBN 0472081497, 9780472081493 (page 10)
29. ^ Thunmann, Johannes E. "Untersuchungen uber die Geschichte der Oslichen Europaischen Volger". Teil, Leipzig, 1774.
30. ^ Indo-European language and culture: an introduction By Benjamin W. Fortson Edition: 5, illustrated Published by Wiley-Blackwell, 2004 ISBN 1405103167, 9781405103169
31. ^ Stipčević, Alexander. Iliri (2nd edition). Zagreb, 1989 (also published in Italian as "Gli Illiri")
32. ^ NGL Hammond The Relations of Illyrian Albania with the Greeks and the Romans. In Perspectives on Albania, edited by Tom Winnifrith, St. Martin’s Press, New York 1992
33. ^ Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985
34. ^ Thunman, Hahn, Kretschmer, Ribezzo, La Piana, Sufflay, Erdeljanovic and Stadtmuller referenced at Hamp see (The position of Albanian, E. Hamp 1963)
35. ^ Jireček as referenced at Hamp see (The position of Albanian, E. Hamp 1963)
36. ^ Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985
37. ^ Demiraj, Shaban. Prejardhja e shqiptarëve në dritën e dëshmive të gjuhës shqipe.(Origin of Albanians through the testimonies of the Albanian language) Shkenca (Tirane) 1999
38. ^ History of the Byzantine Empire, 324-1453 By Alexander A. Vasiliev Edition: 2, illustrated Published by Univ of Wisconsin Press, 1958 ISBN 0299809269, 9780299809263 (page 613)
39. ^ History of the Balkans: Eighteenth and nineteenth centuries By Barbara Jelavich Edition: reprint, illustrated Published by Cambridge University Press, 1983 ISBN 0521274583, 9780521274586 (page 25)
40. ^ The Indo-European languages By Anna Giacalone Ramat, Paolo Ramat Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1998 ISBN 041506449X, 9780415064491 (page 481)
41. ^ Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985 page 11
42. ^ Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985 page 11 link [5]
43. ^ Çabej, E. "Die alteren Wohnsitze der Albaner auf der Balkanhalbinsel im Lichte der Sprache und der Ortsnamen," VII Congresso internaz. di sciense onomastiche, 1961 241-251; Albanian version BUShT 1962:1.219-227. "Problemi i autoktonisë së shqiptarëvet në dritën e emravet të vendeve," BUShT 1958:2.54-66. Also summarized in Bibliotheca Classica Orientalis (1960):5.20. See their summary at Hamp "Position of Albanian"
44. ^ Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985 page 11 link [6]
45. ^ Çabej, E. "Die alteren Wohnsitze der Albaner auf der Balkanhalbinsel im Lichte der Sprache und der Ortsnamen," VII Congresso internaz. di sciense onomastiche, 1961 241-251; Albanian version BUShT 1962:1.219-227
46. ^ Çabej, Eqrem. Karakteristikat e huazimeve latine të gjuhës shqipe.(The characteristics of Latin Loans in Albanian language) SF 1974/2 (In German RL 1962/1) (13-51)
47. ^ Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985 (page 11) borrowed words from Greek and Latin date back to before Christian era see also (page 9) Even very common words such as mik"friend"(<Lat. amicus) or këndoj"sing (<Lat. cantare) come from Latin and attest to a widespread intermingling of pre-Albanian and Balkan Latin speakers during the Roman period, roughfly from the second century BC to the fifth century AD.
48. ^ Demiraj, Shaban. Prejardhja e shqiptarëve në dritën e dëshmive të gjuhës shqipe.(Origin of Albanians through the testimonies of the Albanian language) Shkenca (Tirane) 1999
49. ^ Çabej, E. "Die alteren Wohnsitze der Albaner auf der Balkanhalbinsel im Lichte der Sprache und der Ortsnamen," VII Congresso internaz. di sciense onomastiche, 1961 241-251; Albanian version BUShT 1962:1.219-227
50. ^ Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985 page 11 link [7]
51. ^ Demiraj, Shaban. Prejardhja e shqiptarëve në dritën e dëshmive të gjuhës shqipe.(Origin of Albanians through the testimonies of the Albanian language) Shkenca (Tirane) 1999
52. ^ Cimochowski, W. "Des recherches sur la toponomastique de l’Albanie," Ling. Posn. 8.133-45 (1960). On Durrës
53. ^ In Tosk /a/ before a nasal has become a central vowel (shwa), and intervocalic /n/ has become /r/. These two sound changes have affected only the pre-Slav stratum of the Albanian lexicon, that is the native words and loanwords from Greek and Latin (page 23) Concise Encyclopedia of Languages of the World By Keith Brown, Sarah Ogilvie Contributor Keith Brown, Sarah Ogilvie Edition: illustrated Published by Elsevier, 2008 ISBN 0080877745, 9780080877747
54. ^ The dialectal split into Geg and Tosk happened sometime after the region become Christianized in the fourth century AD; Christian Latin loanwords show Tosk rhotacism, such as Tosk murgu"monk" (Geg mungu) from Lat. monachus. (page 392) Indo-European language and culture: an introduction By Benjamin W. Fortson Edition: 5, illustrated Published by Wiley-Blackwell, 2004 ISBN 1405103167, 9781405103169
55. ^ The Greek and Latin loans have undergone most of the far-reaching phonological changes which have so altered the shape of inherited words while Slavic and Turkish words do not show those changes. Thus Albanian must have acquired much of its present form by the time Slavs entered into Balkans in the fifth and sixth centuries AD (page 9)Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985
56. ^ The river Shkumbin in central Albania historically forms the boundary between those two dialects, with the population on the north speaking varieties of Geg and the population on the south varieties of Tosk. (page 23) Concise Encyclopedia of Languages of the World By Keith Brown, Sarah Ogilvie Contributor Keith Brown, Sarah Ogilvie Edition: illustrated Published by Elsevier,2008 ISBN 0080877745, 9780080877747
57. ^ Demiraj, Shaban. Prejardhja e shqiptarëve në dritën e dëshmive të gjuhës shqipe.(Origin of Albanians through the testimonies of the Albanian language) Shkenca (Tirane) 1999
58. ^ See also Hamp 1963 The isogloss is clear in all dialects I have studied, which embrace nearly all types possible. It must be relatively old, that is, dating back into the post-Roman first millennium. As a guess, it seems possible that this isogloss reflects a spread of the speech area, after the settlement of the Albanians in roughly their present location, so that the speech area straddled the Jireček Line.
59. ^ Kazhdan, Alexander (Ed.) (1991). Oxford Dictionary of Byzantium. Oxford University Press. pp. 52–53. ISBN 978-0-19-504652-6.

* General Surveys
o "Albanian language", in Encyclopædia Britannica, 15th edn. (1985).
o Campbell, George L., ed. Compendium of the World’s Languages, 2nd edn., vol. 1: Abaza to Kurdish, s.v. “Albanian”. London and New York: Routledge, 2000, pp. 50–7.
o Hamp, E. P. “Albanian”, in Encyclopedia of Language and Linguistics, edited by R. E. Asher, vol. 1. Oxford: Pergamon, 1994, pp. 65–7.
o Price, Glanville, ed. Encyclopedia of the Languages of Europe, s.v. “Albanian”. Oxford: Blackwell, 1998, pp. 4–8.

* Historical
o Demiraj, Shaban. "Albanian", in The Indo-European Languages, Anna Giacalone Ramat and Paolo Ramat, eds. London: Routledge, 1998.
o Fortson IV, Benjamin W. "Albanian", in Indo-European Language and Culture: An Introduction. London: Blackwell, 2004.
o Huld, Martin E. Basic Albanian Etymologies. Columbus, OH: Slavica Publishers, 1984.
o Mallory, J.P. and D.Q. Adams. "Albanian", in Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture. London: Fitzroy Dearborn, 1997.
o Orel, Vladimir. A Concise Historical Grammar of the Albanian Language: Reconstruction of Proto-Albanian. Leiden: Brill, 2000.

* Grammar
o Camaj, Martin. Albanian Grammar. Wiesbaden, Germany: Otto Harrassowitz.
o Newmark, Leonard et al. Standard Albanian: A Reference Grammar for Students. Standford: Stanford University Press, 1982.

* Other
o Gjinari, Jorgji. Dialektologjia shqiptare. Prishtinë: Universiteti, 1970.
o Xhelal Ylli, Andrej N. Sobolev, Albanskii toskskii govor sela Leshnja. Muenchen: Biblion Verlag, 2002. ISBN 3-932331-29-X
o Xhelal Ylli, Andrej N. Sobolev, Albanskii gegskii govor sela Muhurr. Muenchen: Biblion Verlag, 2003. ISBN 3-932331-36-2
...

Do you want more... ?!
Now leave the theme to continue about this conrete(cultural) "thing", what is being discussed...
 
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Nice work. But there is one problem. Ninety percent of these authors are Albanians. Mytomania was one of major discipline among scientists and historians of various nationalities on Balkan. I could post you hundreds of editions of serbian scientists who claim that Serbs are heavenly chosen people, the oldest nation on the planet earth. Of course, I had to be an idiot to believe in such things.
I personally have nothing against the fact that Albanians feels themselves descendants of anciant Illyrians, but I have a problem when they use that story to claim that they are only people that deserve to live on Balkan. All others are intruders and newcomers. And I am guessing what would be with Albanian historiography if it appears that Illyrians are not oldest people on Balkan. Then they will probably start to claim that they are actually Greeks, and that real Greeks are some wild tribe which came to stole land of "ancient Albanians", which by the way are first time mention as a nation in 11th century ( and that is not for sure).
I asked myself why is haplogroup I2a so popular among nationalists of many Balkan states and I believe that is because of very wide accepted claim that it is the oldest haplogroup on Balkan. Their logic is: If we belong to haplogroup I2a then we must be the oldest nation on Balkan, and considering that we have more rights on that region than others.
So genetics, history especially, is specifically used in pure political sense.
The Albanian mytomania about Illyria should be observed in that way too.
 
90% of these materials were from others (non albanian) authors, don't you see that ?! - I asked you: "Do you want more... ?!" - But after you read something, not just to reply because you have to - You didn't give up whith your serbian propaganda, doesn't you ?! - Stop believing your lies, or your father lies ! - Mythmania is (what came from one battle whith ottomans, after you came here, by the way there were fighting and albanians too) is to say that Kosovo is Serbian land ! - I have thousands of evidence to argue for the occupation, genocide, ethnic cleansing, massacres (only on civils), murders of babies... what you Serbs have developed continuously since the VI century onwards, on the Albanian population, if you want I'll send you, but not in this topic.
- And what do you want to say whith these genetics what you mention always ?!
Here the official results of Albanian DNA and Serbian:
Albanian:
Y-chromosome (Y-DNA)
E1b1b1a; E1b1b1a2; E3b; E3b1a (E-M78); E-V13; I; I1; I1b2 (M-26); I2; I2a; I2a1; I2b; J2; J2a; J2b (J-M12); J2e (M-102); J1; R1a; R1b; G; G2a...

Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA):
H; (H1+H3); V; J; T; U; (U4); (U5); K; I; W ...

Serbian: See the Y-DNA by country in this forum

So, the difference is that you have less the R1b; J2... and more the T(+L)
The others are + - the same whith albanians. Remember, here we came to the terms: Occupation; Assimilation... to understand why we have some common haplogroups.

"E" is known +54.000 - 78.000 years old, than "I", "J" + 45.000 years "G" + 31.000, "R" + 29.000
Attention: All haplogropus in pre-historic time, came from Africa(some earlier, some later). Now were is your problem ?!
- The haplogruop isn't a nation. So, our "race" is extract of cultures and languages of all Mediterranean. You have evidence from our language in the establishment of cultures in Egypt, Middle east, Caucasus, Greece, Italy...

And "E" is from Egypt, "J1" is from Semitic, "J2" is something else, "G" is from Caucasus; "R" is from pre-Indo-Europeans, who migrated in central Europe and together whith "I" created a part of Illyrians, Celts, Gals...
So we were the first who inhabits Balkans and Europe after Ice Age, so that makes us autochthon here, like a european race too, not only arfrican, arabian, middle eastern, or mediterrean.
Pay attention to ancient writters or Brittanica when they say: "Albanians(sons of the eagle) whith pre-helenic history" but I'm sure that doesn't means something to you, because you are captured from your pseudo-nationalism, mythomania, hate, propaganda...
But now leave the topic to continue and work whith yourself !
Keep it real - Peace !
 
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- And what do you want to say whith these genetics what you mention always ?!


- The haplogruop isn't a nation. So, our race is extract of cultures and languages of all Mediterranean. You have evidence from our language in the establishment of cultures in Egypt, Middle east, Caucasus, Greece, Italy...


So we were the first who inhabits Balkans and Europe after Ice Age, so that makes us autochthon here, like a european race too, not only arfrican, arabian, middle eastern, or mediterrean.
Pay attention to ancient writters or Brittanica when they say: "Albanians(sons of the eagle) whith pre-helenic history" but I'm sure that doesn't means something to you, because you are captured from your pseudo-nationalism, mythomania, hate, propaganda...

So as I understand you are the "race" which first came to Balkan. Was it before amoebs appeared in Universe or later?

I am not sure that people on this forum are so enthusiastic to read all this nationalistic crap.
 
So as I understand you are the "race" which first came to Balkan. Was it before amoebs appeared in Universe or later?

Hahaha... :LOL:
No, that's was only before south slavs and you dont have to be offendet about this.
Otherwice and you (south slavs) are autochthon in some way in Illyrian (Balkan) peninsula (after the expulsion of a part of the Illyrians in the south), but only after the VI century ;)

Keep it real - Peace !
 
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I know Greeks say it's Greek, and they can't stand that Ethnic Albanians liberated their country since they don't like them, and Greeks and Albanians were like brothers before the Ottoman War, especially the Orthodox community, but Fustanella is not Greek, it's Albanian. Greeks adopted it from the Arvanite (Albanians) that immigrated to Greece during Ottoman war. The Greeks made it their national costume in honor of Arvanite Markos Botsaris. who liberated Greece from Ottomans. Albanians were called Arvanite by Greeks in the middle ages. While Albanians called themselves Arbereshe. Today you can still find Albanian communities (Arbereshe) in Southern-Italy that escaped from the war Ottoman War, even Skanderbegs family. Fustan (fistan) means dress in Albanian.

It's interesting because Celts lived next to Illyrians and Thracians and even intermarried them, traded culture etc. Allot of Celtic tribes were Illyrianized. and even allied with Illyrians in battles.

Edwin E Jacques in his book, the Albanians: an ethnic history from prehistoric time to the present mentions the close connection between Albanians and Scots:

''The Arnaouts, or Albanese, struck me forcibly by their resemblance to the highlanders of Scotland, their very mountains, the kilt though white, the spare active form, their dialect Celtic in sound, and their hardy habits all carried me back...'' then Edwin Writes, ''So would their fierce interfamily blood feuds, and their goatskin or pigskin bagpipes softened with warm water and oil, whose gay, flutelike melody was accompanied by a low drone quite that of the Scottish highland bagpipe music''
 
Albanians does not belong nor to dinaric race nor to dinaric haplotype. It is mostly very short people, totaly oposite of tall Montenegrins beside them. That difference is so obvious that every Yugoslav, only by physical appearance, could recognize Albanian. I lived among Albanians for a very long period, and I am telling what I saw.
Also, as far I know there is no any kind of scientific proof that Albanians have anything in common with Illyrians, nor in language, nor in archeological findings.That Illyromania was part of Albanian national revival, the same way as it was used in Croatia with Illyrian movement.

As far as I know, Albanian Gegs are genetically Europe's tallest people together with Montenigrins. I know you're gonna say Dutch and Norwegians are but Dutch and Norwegians have become tall through better nutrion. in the 19th century Dutch and Scandinavians were known to be very short but this changed through nutrion, which plays a major role. I am Geg and every male in my family is tall. my grandfather was like 7foot. And most of the short Albanians I know are the ones that started lifting weights at the age of 14.

George Fred Williams writes in his book, the Albanians, that Montenigrins, Albanians and Bosnians are Europes tallest people.

And funny, how you compare ancient civilization with modern ones.. which you really can't, because even the Norwegians, descendants of Vikings are today quite different looking than them, and Norwegians today are taller.
 
As far as I know, Albanian Gegs are genetically Europe's tallest people together with Montenigrins.
As far I know, Albanians which live in Kosovo are predominantly Gegs and I haven't seen a lot of tall people there and I have lived in Kosovo for three years. Even the Montenegrins which lived around Skadar lake and close to Albanian border are much smaller than Montenegrins from Old Herzegovina.
Howewer, South Slavs and Albanians(especially Gegs) are linguisticaly and geneticaly two totally different worlds. I was just saying that it is obvious from the first look...
 
As far I know, Albanians which live in Kosovo are predominantly Gegs and I haven't seen a lot of tall people there and I have lived in Kosovo for three years. Even the Montenegrins which lived around Skadar lake and close to Albanian border are much smaller than Montenegrins from Old Herzegovina.
Being tall has allot to do with nutrition. Why else have the dutch gone from being the smallest to the tallest, according to some sources. Albanian Gegs are part of the Dinaric race, especially the Northern Albanians, Malesort, And most of western Kosovo. Albania has the highest Dinaric Alps, with Maja Jezerce reaching it's peak.
''Maja Jezercë (Albanian: Maja Jezercë, meaning 'lake ridge'; Serbian: Језерски врх, Jezerski vrh) is the highest point of the Prokletije and the entire Dinaric Alps, standing at 2,694 m (8,839 ft) AMSL.''
And not every Bosnian or Serb looks like Dinars because not everyone is. I have seen many Albanians who look Dinaric. I know what Dinaric looks like, and many Bosnians and Serbs are not Dinaric. This is a real Dinaric

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Howewer, South Slavs and Albanians(especially Gegs) are linguisticaly and geneticaly two totally different worlds. I was just saying that it is obvious from the first look...
Again, wrong. Of all the languages in Europe Albanian is most related to Balto-Slavic and Germanic. And Both Serbs and Bosnians, speak Croatian, not Serbian. I call it Croatian. And I know many Bosnians who could pass as Albanians any day. Haplogroups do not define race either lol. Just because you're for example EV-13 does not mean you're Egyptian, Berber or Somalian/Ehtiopian. Coz, I know an Albanian girl she did genetic test and she was EV-13 but in appereance she looks Germanic. Haplogroups doesn't mean anything, only useful to find your ancestors. The way you look is the way you've adopted to the region you live in. therefor Northern-Albanians are Dinaric, and funny how you say (especially Gegs) coz of all the Albanians Gegs would be the ones closest to South Slavs since they live next to them. Tosks live next to Greeks. Greece is very high in J2 and EV-13, both high in Albanian population too. the rest of Greece is R1a (Slavic) which proves Farheimers theory ''there are two types of Greeks, Albanians and Slavs''
The Arvanite settlements in Greece got many Greeks Albanized. and many Greeks are of Albanian descent.
 
Funny because not so long time ago I met a Polish friend and we found so many words in Polish that are the same in Albanian. for example Kurva, which means whore.
 
Balto Slavic speakers lived next to Thracians, Dacians and also Celts.

There are many words in Albanian which are the same in Romanian, as Romanian is latinized Dacian.

There are also many similarities between Albanian and Irish (Q-Celtic)

And there are also many similarities between Albanian and Croatian.
 
I know Greeks say it's Greek, and they can't stand that Ethnic Albanians liberated their country since they don't like them, and Greeks and Albanians were like brothers before the Ottoman War, especially the Orthodox community, but Fustanella is not Greek, it's Albanian. Greeks adopted it from the Arvanite (Albanians) that immigrated to Greece during Ottoman war. The Greeks made it their national costume in honor of Arvanite Markos Botsaris. who liberated Greece from Ottomans. Albanians were called Arvanite by Greeks in the middle ages. While Albanians called themselves Arbereshe. Today you can still find Albanian communities (Arbereshe) in Southern-Italy that escaped from the war Ottoman War, even Skanderbegs family. Fustan (fistan) means dress in Albanian.

It's interesting because Celts lived next to Illyrians and Thracians and even intermarried them, traded culture etc. Allot of Celtic tribes were Illyrianized. and even allied with Illyrians in battles.

Edwin E Jacques in his book, the Albanians: an ethnic history from prehistoric time to the present mentions the close connection between Albanians and Scots:

''The Arnaouts, or Albanese, struck me forcibly by their resemblance to the highlanders of Scotland, their very mountains, the kilt though white, the spare active form, their dialect Celtic in sound, and their hardy habits all carried me back...'' then Edwin Writes, ''So would their fierce interfamily blood feuds, and their goatskin or pigskin bagpipes softened with warm water and oil, whose gay, flutelike melody was accompanied by a low drone quite that of the Scottish highland bagpipe music''

The dress was adopted by greeks as a sign of resistance to the ottoman authorities. Arvinites were very helpfull in establishing greece in the 1820's (y) Today the decendants of arvanites identify themselfs as greeks and are sometimes offended when you call them albanian. It seems that greeks and albanians are geniticaly very similar, this would support the idea that albanians are decendend from illyrians, natives to the balkans, but that doesn't neccesarily mean that the language and culture are Illyrian. Language and culture can be surplanted on a native group of people by the outside ruling elite (see the turks as an example, mostly natives to anatolia but religion and language was brought from central asia). The distinctiveness of the albanian language tells me that it developed after the ottoman conquests, considering it has little influence from its traditional neighboors. Where it got its influences from I don't know and can only guess.
 
Greece is very high in J2 and EV-13, both high in Albanian population too. the rest of Greece is R1a (Slavic) which proves Farheimers theory ''there are two types of Greeks, Albanians and Slavs''
The Arvanite settlements in Greece got many Greeks Albanized. and many Greeks are of Albanian descent.

You can look at the genetic similarities of greeks and albanians in many ways. You can see it as;

a. greeks and albanians are both native to the balkans and therefore have similar genetics, outside influences are very small.

b. Greeks are really albanians

c. Albanians are really greeks.

And you could argue each point untill the sun explodes :confused:, and really for both b and c, it has to do with culture more than anything.
 
your approach is wrong

1 fustanella comes from turkish Fistan
or from ancient greek poys means feet

2 illyria is a greek name
as troy
it was illyros who invade in illyria,
and for greeks illyria is little north lissos lezh not dalmatia, simply the same between E and I2a2

3 according thoukidides 1 Greek language was thyrrsenian also name as etrouscan also as troyan also as thracian,

4 according herodotus thracians were the most numerical people,

5 dardani were illyro thracians

6 the 3 myceneans 1 myceane in greece 2 the mysian in troy 3 the , moesian in romania gives us a coonection of E,

7 the j2 is the cycladetic the thessalian the minoan the Tosk albanian big ratio in albania,

8 the megalithic structures in balkans probably were done by E-V13 carriers

9 the possibility that illyros invade illyria before the change of language gives the explanation,
cause when illyros went away kadmeia cadmeia then IE language enter europe,
now the fact that E-V13 is continental and J2 in sea also is according with the approach that albanian language has the fewest words about sea (inland people)

10 the dardani were classified in semi thracian semi illyrian
although epirus and central south greece was greco-thrasian
leads us to a conlusion that dardani E were cut from rest E of greeks for years
and in peace era like romani and byzantine reunified in illyria,
besides the fact that greeks of epidamnus fight with illyrians of scodret vs romans leads to connection for both, the albanization or greekolization of area until today is very strange,
besides both part were the same until the betrayal of balaba pasa

11 geg also gugu in moesia also gygy in lydia comes from achaic gag or aga

hetitopersian
achamenides

greek
agamenides
but achaic nation

acha aga achaic -> ai=e -> agek gek is the greek aproach and geg the albanian aproach the greeks is nation the was given IE by R same as latium that is why we have many common there,
But latium is full of J2 meaning that E+J make greek E+J was illyria and only dardania as cutten from rest was full E and low J, probably j is naval people

personaly i believe that E is a pre-Greek and proto-Greek as j2 and Dardania as cutten from south E via IE invasion and lingua change kept mostly E since away from sea

RMEMBER GUGU LIVES IN KONKAIONION

besides a lot of gegs non muslim survived in moecia dacia and in albania before
the similarity of daco=moesian in language is very big
the fact is that after 1912 king zuzu and later hotza organize a gothering of muslims gegs in kossyfopedio which gives the big E, not that dardania E is a sprink of genetigal but a gother from diaspora of gegs, also the same in greece, when greek gegs moved in greece
 
The dress was adopted by greeks as a sign of resistance to the ottoman authorities. Arvinites were very helpfull in establishing greece in the 1820's Today the decendants of arvanites identify themselfs as greeks and are sometimes offended when you call them albanian. It seems that greeks and albanians are geniticaly very similar, this would support the idea that albanians are decendend from illyrians, natives to the balkans, but that doesn't neccesarily mean that the language and culture are Illyrian. Language and culture can be surplanted on a native group of people by the outside ruling elite (see the turks as an example, mostly natives to anatolia but religion and language was brought from central asia). The distinctiveness of the albanian language tells me that it developed after the ottoman conquests, considering it has little influence from its traditional neighboors. Where it got its influences from I don't know and can only guess.

Greeks did not use the Fustanella until 19th century, Albanians are recorded using it since 14th century. Fustan/Fistan means dress in Albanian. In Turkish it also means the same but we are talking about Albanian dress here not Turkish. Arvanite is the greek word for Albanian/Arbereshe. Greeks refered to Albanians as Arvanite during middle ages. Therefor they are clearly Albanians. In 19th century Greek children were taught in school that Albanians are their brothers, maybe we are, but R1a is also very common in Greece. And I know many Arvanite, they are orthodox Christians and are proud of their Albanian origin, because Arvanite means Albanian, not Greek. Sorry. One I know works as a school teacher and studies Albanian history. Many tell me how they get mugged for saying they are Albanians in Greece. Anyway, the war that happened in 19th century between Souliote and Ottomans, was more of a war between Albanian Orthodox Christians and Albanian Ottoman leader Ali Pasha, who tried to make them surrender. the Albanian Christians refused to convert to Islam and fled to their greek Orthodox brothers to help them.

As for Albanian language devoloping after Ottoman conquest? This is impossible. Albanians have written and spoken in Greek, Latin and even Croatian but we always speak Albanian when we communicate with other Albanians. Thus, we have used everyone elses language to write etc. because we have been under many others regime, Byzantine, Ottoman, Yugoslavia etc. but we always kept our language and culture even though we were influenced by others. Albanians are also recorded fighting alongside Greeks against Arabs in Sicilia. And Skanderbeg spoke to his people in Albanian, he wrote in Greek and Latin but never in Albanian, he only spoke to Albanians in Albanian. Because Albanians were under Byzantine rule and Greek and Latin were the main languages, Greek was like todays English, therefor Albanian became a minority language overshadowed by Greek and Latin, and was never really written down until later, but it never died out. You can read more from Albanian priest and historian Marlin Barleti's book about Skanderbeg which was written in latin, in the 15th century. Illyrians wrote in Greek to and were clearly influenced by Greeks, but they had their own language at the same time.

But I see what you mean. Just like Bosnians and Serbs who are linguistically Slavs but not genetically. Just like I could say since you speak Greek doesn't mean you're ancient greek. Anyway, in my opinion everything points out albanians either Illyrian or ancient greeks (ancient-macedonians) Well as for language everywhere on the internet I search about Albanian language I get ''Most linguists agree that Albanian might have developed from either Illyrian or Thracian, or these two might have formed a sprachbund Thraco-Illyrian'' like the Dardanians, who were probably Thraco-Illyrians. as for Albanian culture, I don't know what Illyrian culture is like, but clearly Albanians share allot with ancient greek culture, and we still have ancient greek gods, Zevs (zot), afrodite (aferdite) etc.

if I2a is Illyrian, Bosnians would be more genetically related to Greeks, because these clearly influenced each other, unless Illyrians were genetically different from region to region, like Dalmatia (I2a) and the South (EV-13)

@iapetoc Looking at Bosnians, they are linguistically Slavs but not genetically. Same could be said about Albanians. Illyrians were sea people, ok, Albanian language is not sea and is not related to greek ok, still doesn't mean anything because if you look at Bosnians, they are linguistically and genetically different. Same could be said about Albanians, maybe they are Illyrianized Greeks? Or maybe Illyrians and Greeks were the same. Because everything I have found about Albanian language is that it's either Thracian or Illyrian.. if you can find something else, then please tell me. And genetically Albanians = related to Greeks.
 
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