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Thread: Germanic vs Latino - Economic strength?

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    Germanic vs Latino - Economic strength?



    What are people thoughts on the economic performance between germanic nations such as the Uk and Germany vs Latin countries like France and Italy?

    Also what would happen to the economy of Europe in general if a common language was introduced, or two common languages one based on germainc roots and one based on latin routes?

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    Germanic and Nordic countries are more orderly, stoic, organized, less emotional. It goes hand in hand with political and economic stability. Great to make money, but sucks living around stiff people.
    Romans countries, and basically farther south one goes, are more emotional, impulsive, less orderly, more laid back which effects politics and economy in negative way. People are lively, animated, you know if they like you or not, can give you energy and fun to be around.
    Language has nothing to do with politics or economy.
    Though is influenced by people speaking with their emotions. I would rather listen to Gabriela talking in French or Italian than listen to Helga from Sviden,...unless she speaks Italian.

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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    First of all, the UK is not Germanic, it is hybrid Latin/Germanic (linguistically, with regard to English) or Celtic/Germanic (ethnically).

    Latin-speaking countries have a predominantly Italo-Celtic ethnic heritage. Regions that can be considered hybrid Celto-Germanic because neither ethnicity is strongly dominant include: Britain, Belgium (+ French Flanders-Artois), southern Germany (+ Alsace-Lorraine), Switzerland and Austria.

    English language, though often classified as Germanic due to its basic vocabulary, owes 70% of its vocabulary to French, Latin and Greek. English syntax and basic grammar is also alike that of modern Romance languages (no rejection of the verb at the end, no declension). English otherwise lost most of its conjugation and word genders, unlike both Germanic and Romance languages.

    The grammatical gender is more important in Germanic languages because it is associated with the nature/essence of the word (hence the use of a neuter that doesn't exist in Romance tongues). Except for French, which pronunciation was Germanised, Romance masculine and feminine is purely phonetic. If a word ends in -a it is feminine; if it ends in -o it is masculine. The meaning doesn't matter. So the Romance gender is purely phonetic/aesthetic and English actually followed that path, but just happened to lose its gender-determining vowels (-a, -o) and so just dropped gender altogether. If it had followed the Germanic mindset words would have kept their gender whatever their spelling.

    However you look at it, English is predominantly a Romance language formed on a Germanic base.

    DNA-wise, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Cornwall are all predominantly Celtic. England is mixed, and only East England (roughly from Northumberland to East Anglia) has over 70% of Germanic DNA.

    This is why I prefer to refer to places like Britain or Belgium as Celto-Germanic or Latino-Germanic. I never understood why some languages lacked a word for the colour 'orange' or 'purple' and just called something orange 'yellow' or 'red' and something purple 'blue' or 'red'. I also never understood why many Westerners cannot distinguish turquoise from blue or green. In the same way I still cannot understand why the vast majority of people want to cleanly divide countries as either Latin/Celtic or Germanic when in some cases it is a mixture of both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edao View Post
    What are people thoughts on the economic performance between germanic nations such as the Uk and Germany vs Latin countries like France and Italy?

    Also what would happen to the economy of Europe in general if a common language was introduced, or two common languages one based on germainc roots and one based on latin routes?
    "Latino", written in your title, is a term used to describe Western Hemisphere Spanish speaking populations (does not include Portuguese speaking Brazil which is "Lusitanic"). Latin refers to Romance language European countries: Italy, Spain. Portugal, France and Romania. European Latin countries are hardly Latino.

  5. #5
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    Weird thread.

    Only a Latin American would dare to call France and Italy "latino".

    Not to mention that a scottish would hardly dare to call UK a "germanic nation".

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    This is a very strange thread. What has language anything to do with economics ?? What do you mean by "economic performance" ? GDP ? GDP per capita ??
    Also , Like Maciamo said, English has more latin root words than germanic. Also there are half germanic/half latin countries like Belgium, Switzerland, Luxembourg.
    Also for example Spain has a higher development index than Denmark or Germany.
    Also, are France, Italy, Romania, etc are considered latin countries ? I thought Latin was for people from Latin America
    Last edited by Wilhelm; 10-02-10 at 21:00.

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    Wilhelm, I'm glad Spain is developing and growing fast, I wish you the best. You still have somewhat to catch up to Germany and Denmark though.
    Roughly in US dollars the GDP per capita are:
    Spain - 35,000
    Germany - 45,000
    Denmark - 62,000

    I'm really amazed by countries like Sweden. Only 9 million people but they managed to produce one of biggest and well known companies in the world, Ericsson, Volvo, Ikea, just to name a few.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ^ lynx ^ View Post
    Weird thread.

    Only a Latin American would dare to call France and Italy "latino".

    Please don't try to divert the subject...

    I think that given the last events, at the moment the thread is very relevant, as the Euro stability is threatened by economical and financial missmanagement in Spain and Portugal...

    I already posted a thread about it, few days ago.

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...043#post355043

    ++++++++++++++

    I don't think there is nothing inherently wrong with Spaniards regarding those matters.

    I only believe the have to stop to think they could get for always a "free ride" on German taxpayers (Steuerzahler).

    Regards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Wilhelm, I'm glad Spain is developing and growing fast, I wish you the best. You still have somewhat to catch up to Germany and Denmark though.
    Roughly in US dollars the GDP per capita are:
    Spain - 35,000
    Germany - 45,000
    Denmark - 62,000

    I'm really amazed by countries like Sweden. Only 9 million people but they managed to produce one of biggest and well known companies in the world, Ericsson, Volvo, Ikea, just to name a few.
    You can't read obviously. I was talking about the Human Development Index (HDI), which Spain is above Germany, Denmark or Belgium.
    That's why I asked the opening poster what he meant with "economic performance", it can be GDP or GDP ppp , or something else

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius2b View Post
    Please don't try to divert the subject...
    Are you the creator of this thread ? I don't know..There are so many clones with only 1 message..suspicious

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    Apologies for my terminology here it was innaccurate and crude.

    Have a look at this link regarding the pay gap across Europe and have a look at where France, Italy, Spain and Portugal sit.

    finfacts.com

    /irelandbusinessnews/uploads/payeuropemarch272007.jpg

    I would like to make the point that I am not having a go at anyone so there is no need for anyone to take offense. I am mearly making a point that their appears to me to be a cultural gap in Europe, where there appears to be a two tier economic system.

    I don't think anyone would disagree that Italy, France, Spain and Portugal on a cultural level are much more closely related that in realtion to the English or Germans. I acknowledge that due to globalisation the differences in culture have contracted considerably in the last 50 years.

    For example Berlesconi's rise to power in Italy seems ridiculous to me that in a modern European country a man who is clearly unfit to be a leader of any kind can win elections on two seperate occasions. While people around the world may not be a big fan of British prime ministers a character like Berlesconi would be eaten alive in the British political system. There is clearly a huge flaw in the EU that such a disparity in nation electorial systems exist. I doubt very much that the Germans or Dutch would have tolerated the behaviour of Berlesconi had he been their premier (correct me if I'm wrong on this).

    What does language and economic performance have to do with each other? How about an extremely flexible labour market? The cultural exchange between the EU nations would be hugely beneficial. For example I would imagine European cinema would over take that of Hollywood. At the moment a German could not go to Spain and take a job next week cause he would have to learn Spanish and that would take years. This means the free movement of skills and knowledge around Europe is being constipated by the linguistic barriers.

    Another point I would make is the performance of former colonies based on the templates set out by the colonial powers.
    America, Australia and Canada all economically stable countries.
    Brasil, Argentina, and Mexico all comparitively have huge social and economic problems. Are these based on flawed cultral systems set out by their respective European powers?

  12. #12
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    Oh and Sirious is just back into the forum! For a thread certainly related with an article he posted just a couple days ago (and nobody replied to)! How convenient!

    En serio frijol, nadie en Europa se referiria como "latino" a paises de Europa. Y ningun britanico (menos escoces) se referiria al Reino Unido como "nacion germanica" (tienes idea de la rivalidad que hay entre estos dos paises desde la 2ª Guerra Mundial? O de que Escocia es una nacion que se identifica mucho mas como celta que su vecina Inglaterra, que si tienes mas lazos sajones?). Eres penoso troleando.

    Te queda mucho por aprender moctezuma. Te lo digo de buen rollito: Es mejor que no salgas de tu corral, menos para aparentar algo que no eres... porque la ignorancia y el desconocimiento se te pilla enseguida.

    Ya te deje en ridiculo con lo de la Sociedad Max Planck ¿te acuerdas?, retirate mientras te quede un poco de dignidad. Estas quedando otra vez con las bragas al aire.

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    I fail to see the purpose of this thread. Please, someone shed a bit of light here.

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    Me too, ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cambria Red View Post
    I fail to see the purpose of this thread. Please, someone shed a bit of light here.
    I thought the point of forum was to debate and exchange ideas? I have put an observation forward and no one seems willing or able to argue against or even discuss the subject.

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    Yo no tendria problemas en debatir contigo CIVILIZADAMENTE, como un par de adultos, como hacemos en Europa. Pero me siento ridiculo hablando en ingles con un panchi que se hace pasar por escoces, para poder trolear infantilmente contra gente de paises desarrollados, sin sufrir las evidentes represalias y burlas en contra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edao View Post
    Another point I would make is the performance of former colonies based on the templates set out by the colonial powers.
    America, Australia and Canada all economically stable countries.

    Brasil, Argentina, and Mexico all comparitively have huge social and economic problems. Are these based on flawed cultral systems set out by their respective European powers?
    USA, Australia and Canada share the same english colonial past as India and most of africans countries. However India and all those africans countries are among the most undeveloped countries in the world along with Latin American's countries.

    Argentina/Mexico's/etc. economic and social problems has to do more with their native population and their native cultural legacy. USA, Australia and Canada's population are mostly euro-descendants, while in Mexico, Argentina, India, Africa etc. most of the population have strong native/indigenous roots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edao View Post
    I thought the point of forum was to debate and exchange ideas? I have put an observation forward and no one seems willing or able to argue against or even discuss the subject.
    And you're absolutely right. I need to apologise for our Iberians here, they truly believe that the whole world is against them, and they are lately in a very defensive mod.

    Surely one language would help in the situation of unified european market. From your post though, I thought you were comparing economies of different and separate cultures.

    When you compare economies of former european colonies, there is a big difference in population structure. Countries like Canada, USA and Australia are populated mostly by Europeans. Rest of the former colonies are predominantly natives and Africans.
    You also have to keep in mind that recent and successful political, educational, and economic systems are products of hundreds of years of their evolution in Europe. They work well in Europe and they work well wherever Europeans are majority like in Canada, USA and Australia.
    For some reasons, the mentioned european systems, work well in Far East countries like Japan, Korea, Singapore,few others and now in China and India. The reason might be similar evolutionary developments last few thousands of years, like intensive agriculture, dense population with big cities and many of them. Somehow it does the trick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edao View Post
    .

    For example Berlesconi's rise to power in Italy seems ridiculous to me that in a modern European country a man who is clearly unfit to be a leader of any kind can win elections on two seperate occasions. While people around the world may not be a big fan of British prime ministers a character like Berlesconi would be eaten alive in the British political system. There is clearly a huge flaw in the EU that such a disparity in nation electorial systems exist. I doubt very much that the Germans or Dutch would have tolerated the behaviour of Berlesconi had he been their premier (correct me if I'm wrong on this).
    Short memory my friend? Jumping to conclusions too fast, aren't we? One man doesn't make the pattern. If you remember WW2 history and guy name Hitler, and from documentary movies how ridiculous and grotesque he was, and who elected him into the office...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by edao View Post
    I thought the point of forum was to debate and exchange ideas? I have put an observation forward and no one seems willing or able to argue against or even discuss the subject.
    Hello, Edao.

    You are new here, but you will see that this is Forum with a good level of debate. Unfortunatelly, as you has seen, some people of this forum want to divert attention to the topic at hand, when they believe it will not favor them.

    Wellcome.

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    While people around the world may not be a big fan of British prime ministers a character like Berlesconi would be eaten alive in the British political system. [...]
    I doubt very much that the Germans or Dutch would have tolerated the behaviour of Berlesconi had he been their premier (correct me if I'm wrong on this).
    You mean that Berlusconi would have been banned like the dutch MP Geert Wilders? Wilders was banned from entering UK last year you know.

    It's curious that though being a british () you didn't take that into account.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edao View Post
    What are people thoughts on the economic performance between germanic nations such as the Uk and Germany vs Latin countries like France and Italy?
    In the 20th century and the beginning of this one, we have seen an extraordinary development in Northern Europe in general. Countries like Sweden, Norway, the UK, Germany have been an example in economic terms.

    On the other hand, France (with romanic language) has been central in the European history for more than 4 centuries. Italy had also their moments, like the Roman Empire and the Renaissence. Even Spain was for a short time a "superpower" in the 16th century.

    Now, the idea that northern european / protestant values are inherently superior and explain current economic success, is not new.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pro..._of_Capitalism

    For my part, I see that the "Gap" between northern europe and the south, has been diminishing in the last decades.

    Also what would happen to the economy of Europe in general if a common language was introduced, or two common languages one based on germainc roots and one based on latin routes?
    I think that we already see the use of English as a "de facto" language for international communication, and not only in Europe.

    French was (and in my opinion it still has the potential) to be very important.

    German is the language of the most important economy currently in Europe, but even the Germans themselves have given up to have a leading role for their language (e.g. more than 70% of middle class Germans speak English, but less than 3% of "Amricans" do speak German).

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    I still fail to see the point of this thread. If we talk about GDP per capita, it's clear that Switzerland and Luxembourg are at the top in Europe. They are both Half Latin.
    Finland is neither latin or germanic. There is also Qatar and Kuwait, both are Arabic.
    ANd then you have one of the poorest countries in the world, where they speak English, Liberia. South Africa is also half germanic.
    Now, if we talk about growth rate ,in EUrope the slavic countries are at the top.
    IF we talk about GDP total, then France is 5th in the world, Italy 7th, Spain 9th,etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by edao View Post
    Apologies for my terminology here it was innaccurate and crude.

    Have a look at this link regarding the pay gap across Europe and have a look at where France, Italy, Spain and Portugal sit.

    finfacts.com

    /irelandbusinessnews/uploads/payeuropemarch272007.jpg

    I would like to make the point that I am not having a go at anyone so there is no need for anyone to take offense. I am mearly making a point that their appears to me to be a cultural gap in Europe, where there appears to be a two tier economic system.
    I agree that there is a "gap"... however, we have to see the evolution in time.

    My view is that this gap is diminishing since 30 or 40 years ago.


    For example Berlesconi's rise to power in Italy seems ridiculous to me that in a modern European country a man who is clearly unfit to be a leader of any kind can win elections on two seperate occasions. While people around the world may not be a big fan of British prime ministers a character like Berlesconi would be eaten alive in the British political system. There is clearly a huge flaw in the EU that such a disparity in nation electorial systems exist. I doubt very much that the Germans or Dutch would have tolerated the behaviour of Berlesconi had he been their premier (correct me if I'm wrong on this).
    I don't doubt about the goodness of the British electoral system, and I agree that Berlusconi is obnoxious (at least to me).

    When you say that British and Germans are culturally more close to each other, and that the romance countries (France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Romania) have less distance among themselves than to the other two countries, in principle I completely agree.

    Is it due to the fact that British and Germans are ethnically and linguistically more Germanic? Again, I do not disagree.

    Later you speak about that similarity as centered in language...

    Look however, that when you present a text written in German and one written in Italian to a British, it is more probable that he/she understand more of the text written in Italian than that of German. Even the split-predicate of German syntax, is completely alien to the modern English language.

    So, even if "formally" is English a "germanic language"... in practice History has made its work.

    In recent times, the sympaties of average British people, have gone more to those romance countries, than to Germany.

    http://www.rp-online.de/politik/Krau...id_270796.html
    Last edited by Sirius2b; 12-02-10 at 07:03.

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