Germanic vs Latino - Economic strength?

While people around the world may not be a big fan of British prime ministers a character like Berlesconi would be eaten alive in the British political system. [...]
I doubt very much that the Germans or Dutch would have tolerated the behaviour of Berlesconi had he been their premier (correct me if I'm wrong on this).

You mean that Berlusconi would have been banned like the dutch MP Geert Wilders? :innocent: Wilders was banned from entering UK last year you know. :innocent: :LOL:

It's curious that though being a british :)rolleyes2:) you didn't take that into account. :unsure: :grin:
 
What are people thoughts on the economic performance between germanic nations such as the Uk and Germany vs Latin countries like France and Italy?

In the 20th century and the beginning of this one, we have seen an extraordinary development in Northern Europe in general. Countries like Sweden, Norway, the UK, Germany have been an example in economic terms.

On the other hand, France (with romanic language) has been central in the European history for more than 4 centuries. Italy had also their moments, like the Roman Empire and the Renaissence. Even Spain was for a short time a "superpower" in the 16th century.

Now, the idea that northern european / protestant values are inherently superior and explain current economic success, is not new.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_Spirit_of_Capitalism

For my part, I see that the "Gap" between northern europe and the south, has been diminishing in the last decades.

Also what would happen to the economy of Europe in general if a common language was introduced, or two common languages one based on germainc roots and one based on latin routes?

I think that we already see the use of English as a "de facto" language for international communication, and not only in Europe.

French was (and in my opinion it still has the potential) to be very important.

German is the language of the most important economy currently in Europe, but even the Germans themselves have given up to have a leading role for their language (e.g. more than 70% of middle class Germans speak English, but less than 3% of "Amricans" do speak German).
 
I still fail to see the point of this thread. If we talk about GDP per capita, it's clear that Switzerland and Luxembourg are at the top in Europe. They are both Half Latin.
Finland is neither latin or germanic. There is also Qatar and Kuwait, both are Arabic.
ANd then you have one of the poorest countries in the world, where they speak English, Liberia. South Africa is also half germanic.
Now, if we talk about growth rate ,in EUrope the slavic countries are at the top.
IF we talk about GDP total, then France is 5th in the world, Italy 7th, Spain 9th,etc
 
Apologies for my terminology here it was innaccurate and crude.

Have a look at this link regarding the pay gap across Europe and have a look at where France, Italy, Spain and Portugal sit.

finfacts.com

/irelandbusinessnews/uploads/payeuropemarch272007.jpg

I would like to make the point that I am not having a go at anyone so there is no need for anyone to take offense. I am mearly making a point that their appears to me to be a cultural gap in Europe, where there appears to be a two tier economic system.

I agree that there is a "gap"... however, we have to see the evolution in time.

My view is that this gap is diminishing since 30 or 40 years ago.


For example Berlesconi's rise to power in Italy seems ridiculous to me that in a modern European country a man who is clearly unfit to be a leader of any kind can win elections on two seperate occasions. While people around the world may not be a big fan of British prime ministers a character like Berlesconi would be eaten alive in the British political system. There is clearly a huge flaw in the EU that such a disparity in nation electorial systems exist. I doubt very much that the Germans or Dutch would have tolerated the behaviour of Berlesconi had he been their premier (correct me if I'm wrong on this).

I don't doubt about the goodness of the British electoral system, and I agree that Berlusconi is obnoxious (at least to me).

When you say that British and Germans are culturally more close to each other, and that the romance countries (France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Romania) have less distance among themselves than to the other two countries, in principle I completely agree.

Is it due to the fact that British and Germans are ethnically and linguistically more Germanic? Again, I do not disagree.

Later you speak about that similarity as centered in language...

Look however, that when you present a text written in German and one written in Italian to a British, it is more probable that he/she understand more of the text written in Italian than that of German. Even the split-predicate of German syntax, is completely alien to the modern English language.

So, even if "formally" is English a "germanic language"... in practice History has made its work.

In recent times, the sympaties of average British people, have gone more to those romance countries, than to Germany.

http://www.rp-online.de/politik/Kra...auf-die-Deutschen-eindreschen_aid_270796.html
 
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Sirious2b stop talking with yourself :grin:
 
What does language and economic performance have to do with each other?

In inherent terms, none.

Maciamo (the Admin of this forum) is fluent in Japanese, and he could tell you what is like a non-indoerupean language... something completely alien in structure to almost all languages in Europe... and however nobody says that Japanese are underdeveloped.

How about an extremely flexible labour market? The cultural exchange between the EU nations would be hugely beneficial. For example I would imagine European cinema would over take that of Hollywood. At the moment a German could not go to Spain and take a job next week cause he would have to learn Spanish and that would take years. This means the free movement of skills and knowledge around Europe is being constipated by the linguistic barriers.

The only language that currently could realistically be a "lingua franca" in Europe nowadays is English.

Solution: Promotion of English in each country, for that very role.

However, there has to be also a protection of the cultural linguistic heritage of European countries, others than the UK.
 
Sirious2b stop talking with yourself :grin:

Leave me alone, kid.

Adults talking here.

(Go to play with your color charts that place the origins of Celts in Madrid).

:LOL:
 
Wilhelm, you and me know exactly where these people are coming from. Some Eupedia content has been widely posted in some well-known spanish-speaking forums full of latin american trolls.

It's funny to see how the same issues usually discussed by these trolls in those spanish-speaking forums (iberian genetic composition or cultural gaps between our countries and North European countries) are being suddenly brought into Eupedia by the same suspicious people since I registered into Eupedia. I'm starting to feel like a teenage girl in Ciudad Juarez being followed and harassed by zetas every where I go.

These people is starting to scare me and I am serious. Their obsession towards iberian people should be threatened by the WHO (World Health Organization). :useless:
 
Yes...it's so pathological it's scary :startled:
 
To the following question of @Edao...

Another point I would make is the performance of former colonies based on the templates set out by the colonial powers.
America, Australia and Canada all economically stable countries.
Brasil, Argentina, and Mexico all comparitively have huge social and economic problems. Are these based on flawed cultral systems set out by their respective European powers?

... @Lynx responded with this...

USA, Australia and Canada share the same english colonial past as India and most of africans countries. However India and all those africans countries are among the most undeveloped countries in the world along with Latin American's countries.

Argentina/Mexico's/etc. economic and social problems has to do more with their native population and their native cultural legacy. USA, Australia and Canada's population are mostly euro-descendants, while in Mexico, Argentina, India, Africa etc. most of the population have strong native/indigenous roots.

Well, is a respectable opinion...

I do not deny that USA, Canada and Australia are stable, progressive countries.

I think it will be ridiculous from my part to try to deny that in Latin America (I am Mexican) there are serious problems, based solely in my strong Mexican nationalism.

I situations like this, I better go to check the numbers...


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here, we have a list of the 20 largest economies of the World, according to Wikipedia as of today.

1 United States 14,264,600
2 China 7,916,4291
3 Japan 4,354,368
4 India 3,288,345

5 Germany 2,910,490
6 Russia 2,260,907
7 United Kingdom 2,230,549
8 France 2,130,383
9 Brazil 1,981,207
10 Italy 1,814,557
11 Mexico 1,548,007
12 Spain 1,396,881

13 South Korea 1,342,338
14 Canada 1,303,234
15 Turkey 915,184
16 Indonesia 908,242
17 Iran 819,799
18 Australia 795,305
19 Republic of China (Taiwan) 711,418
20 Netherlands 675,375

It so happens, that of first 4 economies, 3 happen to be Asian. One of them, attained independence as late as 1947.

Brazil is going up fast... altough everyone expect, that it will be above Germany in less than 20 years. Not a big feat, since already Brazil has the economy of 2/3 of Germany, and has just began to tap its potential.

@Lynx, which affectionally calls me "frijolito" (little bean), could see that "Beanland" happens to have a larger economy as its former colonial power. And with 20% unemployment, and the burden Spain represents currently financially to the EU, I don't see how they could close that gap soon (Did I fail mention that Spain has the lowest birth rate of the World?).

However, @Lynx says that our problems are due to our Amerindian heritage (i.e. genes and culture). Thanks, @Lynks we know we do not owe nothing to you ;). I wonder how Spain will look, if we summarise also the GDPs of Argentina, Peru, Chile, Venezuela and the like.

In summary, and responding to @Lynx, I will say that we Amerindians have problems... still, we go on our own pace.

Regards.
 
hmm..The Total GDP it is related with the total population of a country and the size of that countty. The GDP is the total production of a counry.
Mexico has like 100 million people, so it is not strange to see their GDP at the top. The same happens with India, China or Rusia. However, Spain who has only about 40 million people and a much smaller size, it is much remarkable to be in the Top 10 , the same happens with Italy. For example a small country like Luxembourg is 65th in total GDP, but first in GDP per capita. Total GDP and GDP per capita are very different things. If we compare the GDP per capita , Spain is 35,204 and Mexico 10,211 , China 3,600 and India 1,017
 
Leave me alone, kid.

Adults talking here.

(Go to play with your color charts that place the origins of Celts in Madrid).

:LOL:

And, your response was not childish? :LOL: Why are you obsessed with slandering and spreading idiotic lies about Iberians? Deal with reality for a change, KID.
 
Countries like Brazil, India or Mexico are among the largest economies of the world because of their large population. Nobody remotely intelligent can seriously think that average indian citizens are richer than average german citizens. Same goes for average mexicans when compared to average spaniards. :rolleyes:

Otherwise USA wouldn't be receiving a mass immigration from Mexico, or Spain receiving mass immigration from other Latin American countries (according to the Spanish Goverment we've received 2 millions of Latin Americans in 10 years).

Yes we have a higher unemployement rate (30% among immigrants) than Mexico but then again we aren't a country that spreads mass immigrantion to other countries... we received them. Unlike Mexico. Your post is simply laughlable. :rolleyes:

@Lynx says that our problems are due to our Amerindian heritage

I wasn't the only one in this thread that suggested this. LeBrok apparently agreed with me. I don't know why you only refer to me.
 
"It's funny to see how the same issues usually discussed by these trolls in those spanish-speaking forums (iberian genetic composition or cultural gaps between our countries and North European countries) are being suddenly brought into Eupedia by the same suspicious people since I registered into Eupedia. I'm starting to feel like a teenage girl in Ciudad Juarez being followed and harassed by zetas every where I go."
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I think to better understand my interest in the subject I will give a bit of my family history. I myself was born in South Africa in the 80s, my mother was a Scottish immigrant and my father was a Portuguese refugee from Mozambique who had fought there in the 60s and had later been forced out due to the civil war.

My parents didn't feel that South Africa was a safe place to bring up a family so the option of a return to Europe was decided. The decision to come to Scotland was made as my parents felt we would have a better future living in the UK than in relation to Portugal.

So the economic gap between the two countries has persnal interest to me. My fathers side of the family have worked as migrant workers arcoss Europe working mainly in construction, in places like Germany and Spain.

I would like to make it clear that it would be stupid of me to be putting down Iberian people as I would be insulting my own family, but you have to look at the reality of the situation regardless of how uncomfortable it makes you. I would make the point that many Spaniards are resentful of Portuguese worker coming into Spain and working for lower wages. You guys are better informed on this subject than me and I would be intersted to hear your views on this subject.

For example my uncle owns a cafe in Coimbra and he still has to work in construction in Spain to make ends meet, and another uncle works in Switzerland. Portugal as been in the EU for a long time now and I wonder why its citizens have to migrate to make a living?

Its sad that people are making comedy of the subject:

youtube.com
/watch?v=myRrHac-gDs

With the Greece financial problems they are saying that the next two countries in the firing line are Spain and Portugal, I'd like to know why?

I'm not having a go at anyone here, as for your anti-iberian suspicions I have to say that from my experience most British people are very fond of the Spanish and have a very romantic view of Spain.
 
Greece is not a Latin country :rolleyes:
 
What a touching story Luis2b. :clap:
 
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"It's funny to see how the same issues usually discussed by these trolls in those spanish-speaking forums (iberian genetic composition or cultural gaps between our countries and North European countries) are being suddenly brought into Eupedia by the same suspicious people since I registered into Eupedia. I'm starting to feel like a teenage girl in Ciudad Juarez being followed and harassed by zetas every where I go."
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think to better understand my interest in the subject I will give a bit of my family history. I myself was born in South Africa in the 80s, my mother was a Scottish immigrant and my father was a Portuguese refugee from Mozambique who had fought there in the 60s and had later been forced out due to the civil war.

My parents didn't feel that South Africa was a safe place to bring up a family so the option of a return to Europe was decided. The decision to come to Scotland was made as my parents felt we would have a better future living in the UK than in relation to Portugal.

So the economic gap between the two countries has persnal interest to me. My fathers side of the family have worked as migrant workers arcoss Europe working mainly in construction, in places like Germany and Spain.

I would like to make it clear that it would be stupid of me to be putting down Iberian people as I would be insulting my own family, but you have to look at the reality of the situation regardless of how uncomfortable it makes you. I would make the point that many Spaniards are resentful of Portuguese worker coming into Spain and working for lower wages. You guys are better informed on this subject than me and I would be intersted to hear your views on this subject.

For example my uncle owns a cafe in Coimbra and he still has to work in construction in Spain to make ends meet, and another uncle works in Switzerland. Portugal as been in the EU for a long time now and I wonder why its citizens have to migrate to make a living?

Its sad that people are making comedy of the subject:

youtube.com
/watch?v=myRrHac-gDs

With the Greece financial problems they are saying that the next two countries in the firing line are Spain and Portugal, I'd like to know why?

I'm not having a go at anyone here, as for your anti-iberian suspicions I have to say that from my experience most British people are very fond of the Spanish and have a very romantic view of Spain.

I'm Alto-Minho Portuguese and Galician and I can tell you that up in my region of Iberia there is a free flow of workers between borders and no hostility to speak of. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that N. Portugal and Galicia are extremely close ethnically and culturally. However, I don't think that is the main factor contributing to good relations between the two areas.
 
I think to better understand my interest in the subject I will give a bit of my family history. I myself was born in South Africa in the 80s, my mother was a Scottish immigrant and my father was a Portuguese refugee from Mozambique who had fought there in the 60s and had later been forced out due to the civil war.

My parents didn't feel that South Africa was a safe place to bring up a family so the option of a return to Europe was decided. The decision to come to Scotland was made as my parents felt we would have a better future living in the UK than in relation to Portugal.

So the economic gap between the two countries has persnal interest to me. My fathers side of the family have worked as migrant workers arcoss Europe working mainly in construction, in places like Germany and Spain.

I would like to make it clear that it would be stupid of me to be putting down Iberian people as I would be insulting my own family, but you have to look at the reality of the situation regardless of how uncomfortable it makes you. I would make the point that many Spaniards are resentful of Portuguese worker coming into Spain and working for lower wages. You guys are better informed on this subject than me and I would be intersted to hear your views on this subject.

For example my uncle owns a cafe in Coimbra and he still has to work in construction in Spain to make ends meet, and another uncle works in Switzerland. Portugal as been in the EU for a long time now and I wonder why its citizens have to migrate to make a living?

With the Greece financial problems they are saying that the next two countries in the firing line are Spain and Portugal, I'd like to know why?

Really your points of view and experiencies promise to be incredibly interesting. And the questions that you post here are relevent and interesting.

Unfortunatelly, as you have seen, the Spaniards here (@Wilhelm & @Lynx) that have the direct experiance are not interested in current issues and cultural discussion. In this forum they are obssesed just to prove some racial & genetic issues, that haunts them... and to play childish with the idea that any new user here is a troll of mine.

(An stupid idea, since Maciamo the Admin could easily verify that my IP is not repeated on any other user.)

Although I see that @CambriaRed has a better attitude.

I'm not having a go at anyone here, as for your anti-iberian suspicions I have to say that from my experience most British people are very fond of the Spanish and have a very romantic view of Spain.

That's what I said here:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=355197&postcount=24
 
Listening to our Iberians one can come to conclusion that they are missing self criticism. It's a natural human character to get defencive when criticized by stranger or other group. Self criticism though is a vital element for self improvement. How can one, or one nation, progress if negative things are not identified, then changed or fixed?
If our Iberians are typical characters for the region, the rest population could be similar, and we know they won't let anyone cloud their perfect image. This could be the reason behind Portugal and Spain many problems and always playing catch up game to north Europe. As I stated above this might have something to do with folks of south being more emotional and getting upset faster than people of north Europe.
To make this forum really great, we should be able to discuss good and bad sides of every country and it's people, without being called names and ridiculed. Let's keep in mind that our intentions should be always good. :)
 
Unfortunatelly, as you have seen, the Spaniards here (@Wilhelm & @Lynx) that have the direct experiance are not interested in current issues and cultural discussion. In this forum they are obssesed just to prove some racial & genetic issues, that haunts them... and to play childish with the idea that any new user here is a troll of mine.

We already tried to discuss about cultural legacies in the european ex-colonies and ethnic issues regarding Latin American... and Sirious pledge Maciamus to close the discussion, remember?

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25591

This is what i call selective censhorship.

And you and your clones are the only ones obssesed with racial and genetic issues.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25553
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25580

You're a truthly a hypocrytical and pathetic being. Wating your life harassing iberians in every internet forum. :useless:
 

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